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 CaptKaruthors wrote:
I can easily see a dual Enfeeble army for IG working really well.

Just make sure you bring your loaded dice so you always get two copies of the right power instead of rolling the wrong ones and having your whole plan fall apart.

TheCaptain wrote:He's reasonably priced for all the stuff you get from him.

But none of the stuff is all that important in a competitive IG list.

That's why he's not competitively viable.

But that's not terribly helpful. You're saying he's not competitive because he's not competitive, basically.

And actually, that double-enfeeble idea is rather interesting. It would be VERY interesting to cause instant death to a dreadknight or bloodthirster or riptide with a meltagun, or to cause instant death to nob bikes with multilasers or plasma guns. Or space marine special characters with heavy bolters for that matter...

Of course, you're far from guaranteed to get that ability twice, but even once is kind of useful, and if it pairs with another dude with iron arm and a force axe, well... you could do some pretty ugly damage, instant death or no.

He's reasonably priced for all the stuff you get from him.

But none of the stuff is all that important in a competitive IG list.

That's why he's not competitively viable.

He's only 70pts! Sheesh...it isn't like this guy costs GK grandmaster levels. With certain book powers, he can be a decent force multiplier for the points. In my book, that can be a competitive choice if your army works well with it.

Just make sure you bring your loaded dice so you always get two copies of the right power instead of rolling the wrong ones and having your whole plan fall apart.

I'm not saying rely on it. But the possibility for it is good. Again, like always, you are overlooking the other powers possibly gained as well. You will also notice I said it's worth experimenting with...you know...for gaks and giggles? Stop trying to turn this into a black and white issue. There are many gray units in the IG codex. Yeah, we get that you have a hard on for CCS with x4 meltas in a chimera...even though that isn't all that great anymore...and is an average choice at best. Last I checked...not many people are running many vehicles these days...and good luck trying to ferry them across the field to get in range. But I digress. The bottom line is that the OP and others are looking at what interesting combos can be had with a 70pt model.

For real gaks and giggles, join him to a penal legion Squad that outflanks with a better chance to hurl lightning at back field targets, and with any luck, actually get some assault going.

I did that twice before, the first time wasn't that good (thanks to showing up on the wrong side) the second time, I took care of a squad of striking scorpions....It took 2 whole turn to get it done, but it allowed me linebreaker and boggling down his dedicated assault unit while my gunner units were firing away without any hassle.

It seems pretty simple to me. If you can get Enfeeble or Endurance, he's worth vastly more than his cost. If you're stuck with all witchfire powers, he was a waste (since any of the other HQs would have brought something to the table).

You know, and that's something else, in this case unreliability isn't, per se, a bad thing.

Yes, you might not know exactly how you're going to use him until the game starts, but he has multiple decent ways to use him. It really isn't a case of fishing for just one good random thing, it's much more like you have several good random things and are rolling to see which one you get.

It might require you to click two brain cells together during deployment, but it's otherwise not necessarily a bad thing.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yes, you might not know exactly how you're going to use him until the game starts, but he has multiple decent ways to use him. It really isn't a case of fishing for just one good random thing, it's much more like you have several good random things and are rolling to see which one you get.

Isn't this the exact opposite of the argument for why penal legion squads are terrible?

You know, and that's something else, in this case unreliability isn't, per se, a bad thing.

Yes, you might not know exactly how you're going to use him until the game starts, but he has multiple decent ways to use him. It really isn't a case of fishing for just one good random thing, it's much more like you have several good random things and are rolling to see which one you get.

It might require you to click two brain cells together during deployment, but it's otherwise not necessarily a bad thing.

Exactly. Which is why I posted the Biomancy powers and possible uses with this guy..as those seemed like the most useful. Although the Telepathy Discipline can be useful as well. It just depends how much experimentation you want to do.

Meh on Telepathy, unless you want Shriek.

Dominate and Terrify never work on anything. Mental Fortitude only does something your CCS is guaranteed to have. Puppet Master doesn't work well in practice (although with the coming along of Monstrous Creatures with big guns, this is a possibility; it'd be hilarious to see a Riptide blow away half his own army).

I'm not rolling on 25% even if my opponent happens to have a big gun on a non-vehicle model.

Yeah, and I'd rather do TK as the second field anyways, OM and crush are more eminently useful, and the idea of gating guardsmen around is, in the very least, kind of funny.

My experiences with gate were....messy. OM could synergize well with melta vets. (If I'm remembering OM right.) I never gave biomancy a serious look before, I'll have to do that when I get home.

I am looking into getting a primaris and stumbled across this thread.. it'll be fun messing around and seeing what I can do.

Side note are psyker battle squads terrible? By terrible I don't mean not competitive, as that's not what I'm looking for (I only play friends), but I don't want to bring a unit that can barely function.

Catch my drift?

zhutch wrote:
Side note are psyker battle squads terrible?

Yes. You can't cast weaken resolve out of a Chimera anymore, which means that the one thing they're actually good at (though less good now that failing morale is less painful) requires putting a bunch of T3/no-save infantry out in the open where everyone can shoot them and quickly make the squad irrelevant. Meanwhile both of their powers got a lot weaker since everyone gets a DTW save against them, and more people are taking rune priests or farseers for psychic defense now thanks to allies.

Could ally in GK and take their henchmen psykers, that's what my models get table time as now, if you really want to field them.

Well actually I'm building a Tzeentch Chaos allied force.. so a Tzeentch Sorcerer, a squad of Tsons, and some cultists.

The plan is to hope to get gift of mutation with either the aspiring sorc or the regular sorc, and then mutate the heck out of the cultist sarge.

I know it's not optimal... but I like it.

A Primaris Psyker just isn't going to do well in combat. Touched on that in the math hammer in this thread. He stands next to no chance against anything tougher than a normal Character. And then he only stands a chance there because he has more wounds.

A Space Marine Sergeant is going to put out 0.67 or 0.83 unsaved Wounds, depending if you have S5 or more. What does the Psyker do?

Chances are the Primaris Psyker will win the Challenge against a normal Sergeant, if only for the fact that he has 3 Wounds. That means you could potentially take out 2-3 Sergeant types in a game before you risk losing him. What happens if even the 'weaker' Space Marine HQs show up to the party though? A Librarian will put out slightly more unsaved wounds than the Sergeant thanks to his higher WS. With two Wounds and potentially a 2+/3++ Save its unlikely to die in a single round though.

This is one unit that I just don't think you can make do anything other than it is designed for: provide support for other units. It just will never be scary in close combat.