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30 White Lions in horde formation in the old book with full command got 31 attacks. If they're hitting on 3+ they'd get (31/9)*8 hits, or 27.555 hits. If they hit on 4+ they'd get (31/4)*3 hits, or 23.25 hits.

40 White Lions in horde formation in the new book get 41 attacks with a champ. Hitting on 3+ that's 31*(2/3), or 20.667 hits, almost 7 hits worse than the old book. Hitting on 4+ they'd get 41/2 or 20.5 hits, which is still worse than the old one. The new book is better at handling stuff where there'd be no rerolls from the old book.

The new book is better if you have a 7x3 unit of White Lions and you're hitting on 3+, if it's 4+ the old book edges ahead again. In short, you're having to pay more for the same effect on average, while reducing concistency due to the loss of rerolls.

 captain collius wrote:

JWhex wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
DoC, maybe they should try redirecting for a change?

Tactical knowledge = 0

You know what how about you explain your point rather than relying on sitting in the corner like a five year old whining.

Because it has been recently discussed to death and explained to the nth degree on these forums.

JWhex wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

JWhex wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
DoC, maybe they should try redirecting for a change?

Tactical knowledge = 0

You know what how about you explain your point rather than relying on sitting in the corner like a five year old whining.

Because it has been recently discussed to death and explained to the nth degree on these forums.

No actually all i have seen is people like you complaining and making that exact point so again explain or don't complain.

Its been laid out in pretty long blocks how redirecting is typically not going to do anything or at best very little for demon players without any complaining by several posters in several threads.

auticus wrote:
Its been laid out in pretty long blocks how redirecting is typically not going to do anything or at best very little for demon players without any complaining by several posters in several threads.

Nope it hasn't. What has been laid out is that demons player say that they cannot redirect as they cannot possibly get enough points back from the redirectors that are caught by killing the core of the high elves players. That is not a reason why you cannot redirect. That is a reason why you can't beat the bannerstar list (Which will never work.) However in most High Elf lists the Banner unit will hover somewhere between 500-350 points because that banner is not a hard counter to most armies like it is with demons.

So Again why can't you all redirect.

That may be *one* reason that was pointed out but that certainly isn't the entire reason why redirection doesn't work. That is an example of why redirection is inefficient and will likely not work.

I have typed the answer to your question about fifteen times over the past couple weeks, as have a couple others, so indeed it has been presented, its just that its easier to remember those griping about having to redirect as the only thing ever being said.

TL;DL - tailored high elf lists vs demons don't need to attack the demons at all to win the game. Therefore redirection is moot since the high elf player doesn't need to actually charge.

I have now seen two games of this in action. I am going to be playing game #3 this weekend where the banner goes onto a dragon prince unit which will be attacking to test the "l2p redirect newb" response.

No you haven't what you all have posted is that it can't work no one has given one reason why other than you will auto-lose which is not actually a reason at all.

Also when someone politely asks for an actual explanation is it polite to give an actual answer. Instead you choose to say that I have already answered that i looked through you post history buddy you haven't so don't worry about it because I know its possible we've already done it at our store and forced 2 draws and 1 win out of 7 games. So how about that.

Ok. If you say so. I'm not going to put my answer on notepad so I can copy/paste it so that when another high elf player goes "l2p newb lulz" i can paste my answer over and over again to satisfy your request.

The Skillstar is what it is. Enjoy your next few years of getting to go lulz lulz lulz like the demons of old, chosenstar, etc... got to do. Its great for the health of the game.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
30 White Lions in horde formation in the old book with full command got 31 attacks. If they're hitting on 3+ they'd get (31/9)*8 hits, or 27.555 hits. If they hit on 4+ they'd get (31/4)*3 hits, or 23.25 hits.

40 White Lions in horde formation in the new book get 41 attacks with a champ. Hitting on 3+ that's 31*(2/3), or 20.667 hits, almost 7 hits worse than the old book. Hitting on 4+ they'd get 41/2 or 20.5 hits, which is still worse than the old one. The new book is better at handling stuff where there'd be no rerolls from the old book.

The new book is better if you have a 7x3 unit of White Lions and you're hitting on 3+, if it's 4+ the old book edges ahead again. In short, you're having to pay more for the same effect on average, while reducing concistency due to the loss of rerolls.

I'm having a terrible time following your math here. So you say the old white lions if they hit on 3+ out of 31 attacks they score 27.555 hits. Is this because of re-rolls?

Then you say the new what lions in horde formation get 41 attacks hitting on a 3+ get 20.667 hits. That doesn't make sense, If they hit 2/3 of the time the score 27.3 hits. So maybe your pointing out that it takes 10 more lions to hit the same amount of time as before?

NickF509 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
30 White Lions in horde formation in the old book with full command got 31 attacks. If they're hitting on 3+ they'd get (31/9)*8 hits, or 27.555 hits. If they hit on 4+ they'd get (31/4)*3 hits, or 23.25 hits.

40 White Lions in horde formation in the new book get 41 attacks with a champ. Hitting on 3+ that's 31*(2/3), or 20.667 hits, almost 7 hits worse than the old book. Hitting on 4+ they'd get 41/2 or 20.5 hits, which is still worse than the old one. The new book is better at handling stuff where there'd be no rerolls from the old book.

The new book is better if you have a 7x3 unit of White Lions and you're hitting on 3+, if it's 4+ the old book edges ahead again. In short, you're having to pay more for the same effect on average, while reducing concistency due to the loss of rerolls.

I'm having a terrible time following your math here. So you say the old white lions if they hit on 3+ out of 31 attacks they score 27.555 hits. Is this because of re-rolls?

Then you say the new what lions in horde formation get 41 attacks hitting on a 3+ get 20.667 hits. That doesn't make sense, If they hit 2/3 of the time the score 27.3 hits. So maybe your pointing out that it takes 10 more lions to hit the same amount of time as before?

Sorry about the sloppy math, I'll try to lay it out better. I blame the heat, can't think clearly. Also noticed just now that I failed and used the value for 31 attacks on the new one when it should've been 41.

Ignore my previous post, corrected math below

30 of the Old White Lions with Champion in horde formation (so max number of attacks) with ASF rerolls gets the following results:

Hitting on 3+: 31*(8/9)=27.555555... hits.

Hitting on 4+: 31*(3/4)=23.25 hits.

40 of the new White Lions with Champion in horde formation (again, max number of attacks) gets the following result:

Hitting on 3+: 41*(2/3)=27.33333... which is barely worse than the old book

Hitting on 4+: 41*0.5=20.5 which is still worse than the old book

In other words, the White Lion horde, which was one of the most popular ways to run them, got worse, needing more points to be spent in order to achieve the same damage. Sword Masters suffer immensely from this nerf, as they don't benefit nearly as much as White Lions from Martial Prowess.

 captain collius wrote:
Nope it hasn't. What has been laid out is that demons player say that they cannot redirect as they cannot possibly get enough points back from the redirectors that are caught by killing the core of the high elves players. That is not a reason why you cannot redirect. That is a reason why you can't beat the bannerstar list (Which will never work.) However in most High Elf lists the Banner unit will hover somewhere between 500-350 points because that banner is not a hard counter to most armies like it is with demons.

That's pretty much it. It isn't a hard counter to most armies. But it's still damn good. Because magic weapon heroes cannot hurt you. If you go cruise on over to the army list subforum, you will see about 90% of armies have magic weapons on their heroes other than their weaker support heroes who are just carrying a BSB or dispel scroll or something. So the banner can be used to make combat heroes and wizards nearly impervious to enemies from any army other than rank and file, which heroes usually beat up.

So yeah, let's say 400pts is standard for an HE bunker. And that's 400pts you basically can't touch/hurt or do anything to except feed. So every round you can try and feed it ~100-200pts to stay away from your main army and heroes. But they can still cast and if they catch you, you're going to get beat up and go unstable. So yeah, you can redirect it, but so what?

If we could put Kairos or our other lvl 4 greater daemons in a 2+ ward bubble, I'd do it in a second. Sure, they could redirect it. But if you just drop nukes, who cares? An unbreakable anvil point denial with spell casting who is immune to heroes is...awful nice.

It's... skillful