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Bees are a pox among us, a winged terror that deserve to be snuffed out. There isn't a strain called "killer" for no reason-and they look almost identical to honey bees. Don't forget the cross species bed that was genetically engineered that is evil aggression incarnate.
And who said wasps should stay?! You need a good public flogging, sir. Then join purplefood in getting off my planet.
Clearly you have never worked with bees. I spent a week working with bees. They were great. And boy did they give me something to think about. Mosquitoes in large quantities are worse.
Bees are needed for the ecosystem. And honey is great.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Avatar 720 wrote: Actually, wasps control the populations of insects that would otherwise overrun crops and flowers and destroy them.
I'm sure there's plenty of other animals that could fill that gap.
Not really, no.
Dragonflies? Spiders? Mantises? Birds? Bats?
To put it into perspective, nearly every insect that is considered a 'pest' has at least one species of wasp that preys upon it. Wasps are used a lot by farmers instead of insecticides because of just how efficient they are at controlling pests. You cannot remove a species as large, varied, and important as the wasp without a huge impact upon the eco-system, no matter how many other things you think would fill their role.
Also, a bit more perspective, dragonflies feed on wasps. If the wasps die, the dragonflies lose a food source, and any species or group that relied on wasps as their main source of food starves, which deprives the local populations of their predators of food, and so on and so forth until the loss of a single insect species has starved an entire area.
Nature is far from as simple as 'if the wasps die out, everything else will take over'.
While that may be true, can it be known with absolute certainty that there is no other animal (or combination of animals) that can replace role that wasps have in similar way or scale?
Can you say with absolute certainty that wasps will be seamlessly replaced by existing animals? In my mind, that is by far the more important question, because if there is even a hint of doubt, then we cannot let wasps die out.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Yeah, that's a good point that's the thing about major changes to the environment you might be able to predict some events but there's the potential things could turn out much (or less) worse than initially thought.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You win Avatar.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/28 01:48:10
If bees weren't so important, they wouldn't exist the world over. As said before, they are a major part of the world's ecosystem. Even if we didn't have any use for honey, they are the only reason that major strains of plants exist, as their are entire species of plants that depend on bees to cross-pollinate them. Most things in the natural world exist for a very good reason, other than perhaps....people.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
AegisGrimm wrote: If bees weren't so important, they wouldn't exist the world over. As said before, they are a major part of the world's ecosystem. Even if we didn't have any use for honey, they are the only reason that major strains of plants exist, as their are entire species of plants that depend on bees to cross-pollinate them. Most things in the natural world exist for a very good reason, other than perhaps....people.
That's mainly because we're top of the food chain, although there's probably a few parasitic organisms that depend on us for survival and most domesticated plants and animals wouldn't survive without human intervention.
That's mainly because we're top of the food chain, although there's probably a few parasitic organisms that depend on us for survival and most domesticated plants and animals wouldn't survive without human intervention.
Domesticated plants and animals aren't natural breeds, and only exist because of humans, not despite us. 99% of the species in the world would be there today and be operating perfectly fine if we never came about. I would even go out on a limb and say that bees are more important to the world at large than we are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/28 03:10:18
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
That's mainly because we're top of the food chain, although there's probably a few parasitic organisms that depend on us for survival and most domesticated plants and animals wouldn't survive without human intervention.
Domesticated plants and animals aren't natural breeds, and only exist because of humans, not despite us. 99% of the species in the world would be there today and be operating perfectly fine if we never came about. I would even go out on a limb and say that bees are more important to the world at large than we are.
Yeah, you're right I'm not sure what statement I was trying to make by bringing up domesticated plants and animals.
You may be right on the parasitic organisms part. I'm not really sure if we as people can harbor anything that might not be able to get other hosts.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
AegisGrimm wrote: You may be right on the parasitic organisms part. I'm not really sure if we as people can harbor anything that might not be able to get other hosts.
The world would lose head lice if we went extinct as they feed exclusively on human blood, such a loss.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/28 05:11:18
Bees are massing their number to take over Western US of A.....Intell recently found out they have signed tentative alliance treaty....Bees runs the logistical side of the house and the African Killer Bees are the combat forces.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
grayshadow87 wrote: I hate to say it, but I find myself growing less and less concerned with GM foods. Maybe it's just that I've heard about it often enough that I've become inured to the whole issue, or maybe it's a subconscious desire to develop mutant powers through spliced tomatoes, but regardless I've grown to accept them. If it takes a bit of tinkering to save the bees, that fine by me.
On the one hand, I'm one of those "don't play God types." On the other hand, GM is just a much faster version of what humans have been doing for thousands of years. Did you know Horses were approximately a half-foot taller (on average)* 800 years ago than they are today? We choose plants and animals that benefit us, and we cultivate them. That in itself is human interference in natural selection to try and preserve and grow organisms perceived as being most advantageous to us. GM is just a much faster way of doing what we were already doing where crops are concerned.
*As clarity here, Knights and mounted European warriors before them did not ride horses like we have today in movies. They rode breeds much closer in size to large Clydesdales which today are less common because we have less use for them than smaller riding breeds. The horses knights would ride, were so strong a knight's back could actually be broken just by the motion of the horse if they made a mistake.
Your point in your first paragraph is one of the reasons that I think have influenced my acceptance of GM. If dog breeders are free to create stupid mixes with even dumber names that serve no real purpose over several generations, then I'm cool with tinkering with things on a shorter term to create an actual purposeful modification. I'm even pretty tolerant of crops that don't necessarily have an abundance of flavor, since: a) Climate change is clearly not going to be addressed thanks to people who willfully ignore science for partisan politics or profit; and
b) With changing climate comes the need for relatively rapid adaptation of crops in order to provide food to the population. Those points tie back to less flavorful crops in that I am willing to sacrifice flavor for a crop that can actual grow in a changing environment. Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that living trumps satisfaction with food flavor.
Agreed. As long as that strawberry keeps someone fed and alive, who gives a flying gak if it's tasteless? I mean sure strawberry's taste awesome, but if the next agricultural revolution to continue feeding our ever growing population is to come from tasteless strawberries, I doubt anyone is going to complain to much.
LordofHats wrote: On the one hand, I'm one of those "don't play God types.
Adam Jensen wrote:One thing is obvious. For the first time in history, we have a chance to steal fire from the gods. To turn away from it now - to stop pursuing a future in which technology and biology combine, leading to the promise of a Singularity - would mean to deny the very essence of who we are. No doubt the road to get there will be bumpy, hurting some people on the way. But won't achieving the dream be worth it? We can become the gods we've always been striving to be. We might as well get good at it.
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
LordofHats wrote: On the one hand, I'm one of those "don't play God types.
Adam Jensen wrote:One thing is obvious. For the first time in history, we have a chance to steal fire from the gods. To turn away from it now - to stop pursuing a future in which technology and biology combine, leading to the promise of a Singularity - would mean to deny the very essence of who we are. No doubt the road to get there will be bumpy, hurting some people on the way. But won't achieving the dream be worth it? We can become the gods we've always been striving to be. We might as well get good at it.
Adam Jensen wrote:I didn't ask for this
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
So the consensus is that a lot of Americans are scared of bees?
If the British had known that in 1776, then bees with red coats could have won the war for them
Or even the confederates. General Robert E Bee leads the south to victory
Ok, that was a bad joke!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
This sort of gak used to depress the gak out of me, then I realized that humanity is utterly doomed with no hope of reprieve due to it's own willful ignorance and inherent flaws and so decided that until nature scours us from the face of the earth or reduces our numbers back to neolithic levels via planetary changes and virus, I'm just going to sit back and party with everyone else.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: This sort of gak used to depress the gak out of me, then I realized that humanity is utterly doomed with no hope of reprieve due to it's own willful ignorance and inherent flaws and so decided that until nature scours us from the face of the earth or reduces our numbers back to neolithic levels via planetary changes and virus, I'm just going to sit back and party with everyone else.
Scream to go faster!
Short of God magically appearing (heh) and uniting the planet under one utopian religion or aliens turning up and enlightening us somehow, I think you're right there, MGS.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: This sort of gak used to depress the gak out of me, then I realized that humanity is utterly doomed with no hope of reprieve due to it's own willful ignorance and inherent flaws and so decided that until nature scours us from the face of the earth or reduces our numbers back to neolithic levels via planetary changes and virus, I'm just going to sit back and party with everyone else.
Scream to go faster!
Short of God magically appearing and uniting the planet under one utopian religion
Ugh, fine.
I've put if off for long enough, I suppose. Gather around, everyone...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/28 14:29:29
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Ma55ter_fett wrote: If bee's die off then they'll take the entire farming midewest of the united states with them.
Enjoy the skyrocketing price of gas once ethenol prices go through the roof.
And a massive food shortage, and a shortage in really anything that cannot effectively self-pollinate. The importance of bees to the ecosystem cannot be over-exaggerated.
Ma55ter_fett wrote: If bee's die off then they'll take the entire farming midewest of the united states with them.
Enjoy the skyrocketing price of gas once ethenol prices go through the roof.
And a massive food shortage, and a shortage in really anything that cannot effectively self-pollinate. The importance of bees to the ecosystem cannot be over-exaggerated.
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
Squigsquasher, resident ban magnet, White Knight, and general fethwit.
buddha wrote: I've decided that these GW is dead/dying threads that pop up every-week must be followers and cultists of nurgle perpetuating the need for decay. I therefore declare that that such threads are heresy and subject to exterminatus. So says the Inquisition!
Their pouring all their resources into paying us back.....eventually the bees.....
Time to break out the clones of...
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
I like bees. Wasps however can all die a horrible agonizing death.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
AegisGrimm wrote: You may be right on the parasitic organisms part. I'm not really sure if we as people can harbor anything that might not be able to get other hosts.
The world would lose head lice if we went extinct as they feed exclusively on human blood, such a loss.
And I've just learned something new today, thanks Cheesecat!
Bees are needed, if not for pollination then at least for mead. Mead people, think of the mead. What did that wonderful concoction of converted sugars do to you people that you wish to make it extinct?
Why are bees so scary? I'm quite happy to walk into a swarm to see where the queen is. Bees are only as scary as you make them , that said, having one fly behind the lens of your glasses is a worrying moment
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
