XV-107 R'Varna battlesuit broken as heck or overreaction?

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**MrFlutterPie**

Does anybody else think this thing looks like the mech from District 9?

I kinda dig it

**AlmightyWalrus**

MrFlutterPie wrote:
Does anybody else think this thing looks like the mech from District 9?

I kinda dig it

Now that you mention it, yes.

**dementedwombat**

Can't say anything from a rules perspective, but that is one sexy model. Might pick one up. That and a barracuda... *rubs hands together*

**Mulletdude**

dementedwombat wrote:
Can't say anything from a rules perspective, but that is one sexy model. Might pick one up. That and a barracuda... *rubs hands together*

Might as well buy the AX1-0 while you're at it

I like this thing a lot, and am planning on picking up a pair because of how cool they look. Well, that and I love the riptide models

**Happyjew**

At least the XV-107 doesn't look like it pissed off the witch doctor from Beetlejuice.

**Rumbleguts**

Well, they are experimental rules but as written they are broken all to hell. My tyrannofex looks at that and the elder wraithknight and just weeps. Maybe if the weapon didn't increase in strength against larger models and it was AP4 and not 3 it wouldn't be so bad. The baseline stats on it aren't quite as good as the wraithknight from what I remember but it does have a 4++ against ranged which is damned powerful for a walking gunmount.

**Mulletdude**

Well, according to forge world, any of their models cannot be used in GW supplements. So the XV107 cannot be taken as part of the enclaves, as well as most of the other forgeworld goodies.

**Rotary**

Rules aside, it looks awesome.

**gossipmeng**

I might include one in my farsight enclaves list.

I just need to drop my commander bravestorm to a Tau allies iridium commander, drop the bonding knives from my firewarrior team so they can be the required allied troop choice and boom r'varna heavy support slot

**hotsauceman1**

I might just drop my Broadsides and Skray. but then I have the problem of no Anti Air

**Dakkamite**

I'd have thought "herp derp submunitions" would be weaker than S6 AP3

Noone would care if its was two or three S4 AP5 hits per 'hit', but instead its like hitting everyone with a nuclear powered heavy bolter

**Krellnus**

Mulletdude wrote:
Well, according to forge world, any of their models cannot be used in GW supplements. So the XV107 cannot be taken as part of the enclaves, as well as most of the other forgeworld goodies.

Source?

**gossipmeng**

Krellnus wrote:
Mulletdude wrote:
Well, according to forge world, any of their models cannot be used in GW supplements. So the XV107 cannot be taken as part of the enclaves, as well as most of the other forgeworld goodies.

Source?

Well, in the experimental rules section on the FW website it states that the suit takes up a heavy support slot in codes: Tau Empire. It would have states farsight enclaves too if it was intended for the farsight enclaves. Fluff wise this makes sense as the pilot of the suit would need to defect for the enclaves to acquire it. You can represent this by allying in regular tau to your farsight enclaves army.

I would assume other supplements would handle forgeworld units the same way, but it is a case by case basis.

**Krellnus**

gossipmeng wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
Mulletdude wrote:
Well, according to forge world, any of their models cannot be used in GW supplements. So the XV107 cannot be taken as part of the enclaves, as well as most of the other forgeworld goodies.

Source?

Well, in the experimental rules section on the FW website it states that the suit takes up a heavy support slot in codes: Tau Empire. It would have states farsight enclaves too if it was intended for the farsight enclaves. Fluff wise this makes sense as the pilot of the suit would need to defect for the enclaves to acquire it. You can represent this by allying in regular tau to your farsight enclaves army.

I would assume other supplements would handle forgeworld units the same way, but it is a case by case basis.

Except the part where FE tells you that it is TE with the following exceptions, since not having access to the R'Varna is not one of those exceptions, as it is part of the TE army list, so it is part of the FE army list.

**nosferatu1001**

Mulletdude wrote:
dementedwombat wrote:
Can't say anything from a rules perspective, but that is one sexy model. Might pick one up. That and a barracuda... *rubs hands together*

Might as well buy the AX1-0 while you're at it

I like this thing a lot, and am planning on picking up a pair because of how cool they look. Well, that and I love the riptide models

Nah, if you have an AX 1-0 you need 2 barracuda, because, flying air wing.

Same as having a reaver and a warhound doesnt work, you need two warhounds for a demi-maniple. And then weep when they release the warlord....

**Mulletdude**

Krellnus wrote:
Mulletdude wrote:
Well, according to forge world, any of their models cannot be used in GW supplements. So the XV107 cannot be taken as part of the enclaves, as well as most of the other forgeworld goodies.

Source?

Happy to oblige. I sent them a very detailed e-mail and got an equally detailed answer back. I've copied and pasted the emails here, and redacted my information.

************** <********************@*******.com>

Oct 12 (3 days ago)

to ImperialArmour

I was reading recently that there are multiple guidelines for allowing imperial armor models for use in supplements. A user from Advanced Tau Tactica recently e-mailed a question about the XV107 and signature system use in a Farsight Enclaves army, but was told that the XV107 doesn't need to worry about it because it cannot be used in a Farsight Enclaves army. Because the entry for the XV107 is worded the exact same as all the models in Imperial Armor 3, would this also mean that any of the models found in IA3 cannot be used with a FE army, such as the tetra, XV-9's, and special characters. If this is the case, would the Eldar Wraithseer not be able to be used as an HQ choice of an Iyanden supplement?

I understand that the XV107 is a new model with experimental rules, and I would really like some clear definitions for what is allowed and what is not allowed to be used. I would believe that because the supplements are not a codex in their own right, being that they lack an army list to draw models from, and that since all the IA models effectively add themselves to the codex's that they could be used in, that models such as the XV107, XV9, and the Wraithseer could all be used in their respective supplements.

Thanks for taking the time to read my e-mail.

Their reply:

forgeworld <forgeworld@gwplc.com>

Oct 14 (1 day ago)

to *******
Hi *******,

Thank you for your email. Our rules are written to compliment the Codex rules, not variants released in supplements. Using Imperial Armour rules along with Games Workshop supplements would be effectively stacking one supplement with another that it was not designed to work with.

Obviously when playing games with friends it's entirely up to you what rules you use. We take the stance that officially none of the units in Imperial Armour books can be used in Codex Supplement army lists unless we state otherwise. We have taken the decision that the Crisis Suits in Imperial Armour 3 2nd Edition, not including any characters, are fine to be used with the 'Farsight Enclaves' supplement. As yet no other Imperial Armour units may be used in supplement army lists.

If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World

If you have a query about your order, please call
0115 900 4995 within the UK
011 44 115 900 4995 from the US and Canada
00 44 115 900 4995 from much of Europe

Our office hours are:
0930 – 1800 (GMT) Monday to Friday
0930 – 1700 (GMT) Saturday

**Krellnus**

Doesn't look like an official FW FAQ.

**Mulletdude**

Krellnus wrote:
Doesn't look like an official FW FAQ.

And barring an official faq that is going to be the best we get. You can e-mail them yourself and they will respond with the same thing if that will satisfy you. I don't like this ruling, as I was going to get 2+ of the XV107's because of how awesome they look. However, I run a Farsight Enclaves army (1850 pts, 24 crisis suits and 1 riptide) and I really wanted to be able to add this, but it doesn't look like I can without allying in Codex: Tau Empire.

**Krellnus**

Mulletdude wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
Doesn't look like an official FW FAQ.

And barring an official faq that is going to be the best we get. You can e-mail them yourself and they will respond with the same thing if that will satisfy you. I don't like this ruling, as I was going to get 2+ of the XV107's because of how awesome they look. However, I run a Farsight Enclaves army (1850 pts, 24 crisis suits and 1 riptide) and I really wanted to be able to add this, but it doesn't look like I can without allying in Codex: Tau Empire.

So the best is an unverifiable e-mail, that even if we assume it is actually real, we cannot guarantee comes from the rules writer for the R'Varna.
Ok
Since we have nothing official, until a FAQ comes out, RAW the XV107 can be taken by Farsight, just like the stuff from IA:3 (except the two, sig system battlesuits ofc).

**-Shrike-**

Krellnus wrote:
Mulletdude wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
Doesn't look like an official FW FAQ.

And barring an official faq that is going to be the best we get. You can e-mail them yourself and they will respond with the same thing if that will satisfy you. I don't like this ruling, as I was going to get 2+ of the XV107's because of how awesome they look. However, I run a Farsight Enclaves army (1850 pts, 24 crisis suits and 1 riptide) and I really wanted to be able to add this, but it doesn't look like I can without allying in Codex: Tau Empire.

So the best is an unverifiable e-mail, that even if we assume it is actually real, we cannot guarantee comes from the rules writer for the R'Varna.
Ok
Since we have nothing official, until a FAQ comes out, RAW the XV107 can be taken by Farsight, just like the stuff from IA:3 (except the two, sig system battlesuits ofc).

Can you guarantee that every GW FAQ is written by the codex/rulebook writer who wrote those specific rules?

**Krellnus**

-Shrike- wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
Mulletdude wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
Doesn't look like an official FW FAQ.

And barring an official faq that is going to be the best we get. You can e-mail them yourself and they will respond with the same thing if that will satisfy you. I don't like this ruling, as I was going to get 2+ of the XV107's because of how awesome they look. However, I run a Farsight Enclaves army (1850 pts, 24 crisis suits and 1 riptide) and I really wanted to be able to add this, but it doesn't look like I can without allying in Codex: Tau Empire.

So the best is an unverifiable e-mail, that even if we assume it is actually real, we cannot guarantee comes from the rules writer for the R'Varna.
Ok
Since we have nothing official, until a FAQ comes out, RAW the XV107 can be taken by Farsight, just like the stuff from IA:3 (except the two, sig system battlesuits ofc).

Can you guarantee that every GW FAQ is written by the codex/rulebook writer who wrote those specific rules?

No, but they are the official stance of the company as a whole, whereas an unsubstantiated email from someone within the company is nothing more than their opinion at best.

**Kain**

Well, looks like the Nemesis Dreadknight is going to be having a field day.

**feluca**

Dear God, compared to the Tyranid Tyrannofex this thing is so much better for a mere 10 extra points.. (much) better survivability (+1 T, invulnerable 4++/5++), much faster, and a way better gun.. I think FW really needs to adjust these experimental rules!

**x13rads**

I would play against it at least once. But knowing what I know(experimental rules allowing Tau to take 6 5+ wound T6 or better monstrous creatures) I would learn a lot about my opponent by how he represents the thing pre-game. I have nothing against Forge World 40k stamped units, but this thing is pretty ridiculous. Bringing one of these things to a pick-up game might earn you a TFG status when your opponent gets home and reads up on the thing depending on how the other guy represented it pre-game.

**dementedwombat**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Nah, if you have an AX 1-0 you need 2 barracuda, because, flying air wing.

Same as having a reaver and a warhound doesnt work, you need two warhounds for a demi-maniple. And then weep when they release the warlord....

You just buy a Warlord, two Reavers, and a Warhound.
Heavy mech, 2 Mediums, and a Light. Sounds like a good combat Lance to me! (sorry, went Batteltech for a moment).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

x13rads wrote:
IBut knowing what I know(experimental rules allowing Tau to take 6 5+ wound T6 or better monstrous creatures)

Riptide as HQ from Farsight Enclave
3 Riptides as elites from Farsight Enclave
Riptide from allied Tau Empire
R`Varna from allied Tau Empire
Maybe 3 R`Varna from Farsight Enclave (not sure. Apparently the enclave book says they can take stuff available to codex Tau Empire?)
A metric buttload of crisis suits as troops from Farsight Enclaves
Crisis commander as HQ from Tau Empire
random unit of kroot as required troops unit from Tau Empire

Take ALL The battlesuits!

**Mulletdude**

Krellnus wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
Mulletdude wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
Doesn't look like an official FW FAQ.

And barring an official faq that is going to be the best we get. You can e-mail them yourself and they will respond with the same thing if that will satisfy you. I don't like this ruling, as I was going to get 2+ of the XV107's because of how awesome they look. However, I run a Farsight Enclaves army (1850 pts, 24 crisis suits and 1 riptide) and I really wanted to be able to add this, but it doesn't look like I can without allying in Codex: Tau Empire.

So the best is an unverifiable e-mail, that even if we assume it is actually real, we cannot guarantee comes from the rules writer for the R'Varna.
Ok
Since we have nothing official, until a FAQ comes out, RAW the XV107 can be taken by Farsight, just like the stuff from IA:3 (except the two, sig system battlesuits ofc).

Can you guarantee that every GW FAQ is written by the codex/rulebook writer who wrote those specific rules?

No, but they are the official stance of the company as a whole, whereas an unsubstantiated email from someone within the company is nothing more than their opinion at best.

Well then, I implore you to go to http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Home/Contact.html and get the e-mail address they have for rules inquires and ask them yourself. If enough people ask they will eventually release information as an official stance. I read somewhere that FE cannot take it, and I emailed them and got a very speedy response that I linked above.

**Psienesis**

Doesn't matter. Until FW publishes it as a FAQ or Errata, it doesn't count what some guy said in an email. Especially considering that, historically, e-mail support can provide you two different, conflicting answers to the same question, depending on which employee answers it.

Try convincing a TO of a rules change that you read in an email based on something you heard/read somewhere. Without a verifiable, published source (book, website, whatever) it's simply "what one guy at the store" told you.

**Krellnus**

Psienesis wrote:
Doesn't matter. Until FW publishes it as a FAQ or Errata, it doesn't count what some guy said in an email. Especially considering that, historically, e-mail support can provide you two different, conflicting answers to the same question, depending on which employee answers it.

Try convincing a TO of a rules change that you read in an email based on something you heard/read somewhere. Without a verifiable, published source (book, website, whatever) it's simply "what one guy at the store" told you.

Thank you for articulating it better than I could.

**Kain**

feluca wrote:
Dear God, compared to the Tyranid Tyrannofex this thing is so much better for a mere 10 extra points.. (much) better survivability (+1 T, invulnerable 4++/5++), much faster, and a way better gun.. I think FW really needs to adjust these experimental rules!

Or perhaps the Tyrannofex needs to stop sucking because all the other big kit monsters are far better than it for marginally higher or even outright lower prices.

**Rumbleguts**

Kain wrote:
feluca wrote:
Dear God, compared to the Tyranid Tyrannofex this thing is so much better for a mere 10 extra points.. (much) better survivability (+1 T, invulnerable 4++/5++), much faster, and a way better gun.. I think FW really needs to adjust these experimental rules!

Or perhaps the Tyrannofex needs to stop sucking because all the other big kit monsters are far better than it for marginally higher or even outright lower prices.

This is true, but its also true that this abomination is grossly overpowered.