Police get away with murdering a homeless man

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**Seaward**

When did police departments stop having fitness requirements, out of curiosity?

**Ensis Ferrae**

Seaward wrote:
When did police departments stop having fitness requirements, out of curiosity?

Probably as soon as the Draw downs in Iraq and Afghanistan started

**djones520**

Seaward wrote:
When did police departments stop having fitness requirements, out of curiosity?

When did they start?

The MCOLES in Michigan is a joke. My Air Force PT standards are above and beyond that. Women officers in Michigan have to be able to do 7 push-ups. Just 7.

**Co'tor Shas**

Seaward wrote:
When did police departments stop having fitness requirements, out of curiosity?

About the time the doughnut was invented.

**Chongara**

Seaward wrote:
When did police departments stop having fitness requirements, out of curiosity?

That's your first thought on all this? A fat joke?

**Seaward**

Chongara wrote:
That's your first thought on all this? A fat joke?

It's hardly a joke. They're quite fat.

**Kanluwen**

d-usa wrote:
I've heard about this case off and on for a white. Another case that keeps on popping up is the kid that somehow appears to have managed to shoot himself in the head while being handcuffed behind his back inside a police car with the officers gun.

That's a really weird one, but according to the initial investigation performed by the Durham Police Department the kid "had somehow hidden a 9mm that they did not find when searching him".

The North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation is launching its own inquiry.

**hotsauceman1**

Seaward wrote:
When did police departments stop having fitness requirements, out of curiosity?

This is know. It depends on the department. My local one just makes you pass it once, but san fran forces you to do the same test, but every couple of years

**DarkTraveler777**

A timely example of what I was bitching about earlier in this thread:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-dorner-torrance-cop-no-charges-20140115,0,7490608.story#axzz2qVAKULn4

No charges, despite a police officer opening fire on a driver and vehicle which did not match the description of a driver or vehicle that the police were looking for.

Hey kids! Sign up to be a police officer. You can indiscriminately shoot civilians and if you are under stress it is OK!

By Christine Mai-Duc
January 15, 2014, 12:18 p.m.

A Torrance police officer who mistakenly shot at a man during the massive manhunt for ex-LAPD officer Christopher Dorner will not face criminal charges, prosecutors said Wednesday.

The Los Angeles County district attorney’s office declined to press charges against Officer Brian McGee, who opened fire at close-range last February on an innocent driver.

In a 16-page report explaining its decision, the district attorney’s office said McGee made a “reasonable mistake of fact” and the officer was “acting under an actual belief” that he needed to defend himself.

At the time, McGee and his partner were part of a massive dragnet across Southern California searching for Dorner, who had vowed to exact revenge against those he blamed for his firing at LAPD and named suspects he intended to kill.

Dorner, who authorities say killed four people, died several days later from a self-inflicted gunshot wound after he was cornered by police.

In the early morning of Feb. 7, LAPD officers were stationed in Torrance to protect an LAPD captain named in Dorner's manifesto.

David Perdue, who was 38 at the time, was driving to pick up a friend and go surfing that morning when he was stopped by Torrance police and told to turn around.

He'd driven less than 300 feet when another Torrance police unit mistook Perdue, who is a slight white man and was driving a Honda Highlander, for Dorner, who was black and described as driving a Nissan Titan.

After turning around, Perdue’s truck was broadsided by another Torrance police cruiser, driven by McGee. The officer then shot at least three rounds at close-range into the Perdue’s driver side window.

Perdue was not shot, but his attorney said he sustained back and head injuries that left him unable to work.

The incident was one of two mistaken-identity shootings related to the Dorner manhunt.

That same morning, LAPD officers opened fire on a Latina mother and her adult daughter, who were delivering newspapers in a truck nearby.

The city of Los Angeles paid the women cash for a new truck and settled their case for $4.2 million. The city of Torrance has compensated Perdue $20,000 for the damage to his truck.

Both incidents drew sharp criticism and raised questions about how the officers could have mistook the victims for Dorner.

In the report, prosecutors say McGee and his colleagues were “extremely anxious” and “on high alert,” as a result of Dorner’s threats, and that he was “justified in using force to stop the vehicle and in discharging his firearm.”

“McGee was forced to make a split-second decision to take action based on a rapidly evolving situation,” the report continued. “Although mistaken, McGee honestly and reasonably believed that Dorner was driving the truck.”

In a statement, Robert Sheahen, an attorney for Perdue, said the officers’ accounts of the incident were “riddled with factual fantasy” and “accepted at face value” by prosecutors.

“The idea that you can justify a police shooting based on anxiety and panic is beyond the pale,” Sheahen told The Times on Wednesday. “Anxiety and panic have no place in law enforcement. These are the people we entrust with weapons.”

Calls to the Torrance Police Department for comment were not returned, and city officials declined to comment.

Sheahen said the district attorney’s decision has no bearing on a federal lawsuit currently awaiting trial Aug. 12.

ALSO:

Justin Bieber: Authorities defend response to egging allegations

Kelly Thomas case: D.A. could face political fallout from acquittals

4.4 earthquake near Fontana packed a big punch, resident says

Twitter: @cmaiduc

christine.maiduc@latimes.com

Copyright © 2014, Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-dorner-torrance-cop-no-charges-20140115,0,7490608.story#ixzz2qVAi3w9c

**Relapse**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
A timely example of what I was bitching about earlier in this thread:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-dorner-torrance-cop-no-charges-20140115,0,7490608.story#axzz2qVAKULn4

No charges, despite a police officer opening fire on a driver and vehicle which did not match the description of a driver or vehicle that the police were looking for.

Hey kids! Sign up to be a police officer. You can indiscriminately shoot civilians and if you are under stress it is OK!

By Christine Mai-Duc
January 15, 2014, 12:18 p.m.

A Torrance police officer who mistakenly shot at a man during the massive manhunt for ex-LAPD officer Christopher Dorner will not face criminal charges, prosecutors said Wednesday.

The Los Angeles County district attorney’s office declined to press charges against Officer Brian McGee, who opened fire at close-range last February on an innocent driver.

In a 16-page report explaining its decision, the district attorney’s office said McGee made a “reasonable mistake of fact” and the officer was “acting under an actual belief” that he needed to defend himself.

At the time, McGee and his partner were part of a massive dragnet across Southern California searching for Dorner, who had vowed to exact revenge against those he blamed for his firing at LAPD and named suspects he intended to kill.

Dorner, who authorities say killed four people, died several days later from a self-inflicted gunshot wound after he was cornered by police.

In the early morning of Feb. 7, LAPD officers were stationed in Torrance to protect an LAPD captain named in Dorner's manifesto.

David Perdue, who was 38 at the time, was driving to pick up a friend and go surfing that morning when he was stopped by Torrance police and told to turn around.

He'd driven less than 300 feet when another Torrance police unit mistook Perdue, who is a slight white man and was driving a Honda Highlander, for Dorner, who was black and described as driving a Nissan Titan.

After turning around, Perdue’s truck was broadsided by another Torrance police cruiser, driven by McGee. The officer then shot at least three rounds at close-range into the Perdue’s driver side window.

Perdue was not shot, but his attorney said he sustained back and head injuries that left him unable to work.

The incident was one of two mistaken-identity shootings related to the Dorner manhunt.

That same morning, LAPD officers opened fire on a Latina mother and her adult daughter, who were delivering newspapers in a truck nearby.

The city of Los Angeles paid the women cash for a new truck and settled their case for $4.2 million. The city of Torrance has compensated Perdue $20,000 for the damage to his truck.

Both incidents drew sharp criticism and raised questions about how the officers could have mistook the victims for Dorner.

In the report, prosecutors say McGee and his colleagues were “extremely anxious” and “on high alert,” as a result of Dorner’s threats, and that he was “justified in using force to stop the vehicle and in discharging his firearm.”

“McGee was forced to make a split-second decision to take action based on a rapidly evolving situation,” the report continued. “Although mistaken, McGee honestly and reasonably believed that Dorner was driving the truck.”

In a statement, Robert Sheahen, an attorney for Perdue, said the officers’ accounts of the incident were “riddled with factual fantasy” and “accepted at face value” by prosecutors.

“The idea that you can justify a police shooting based on anxiety and panic is beyond the pale,” Sheahen told The Times on Wednesday. “Anxiety and panic have no place in law enforcement. These are the people we entrust with weapons.”

Calls to the Torrance Police Department for comment were not returned, and city officials declined to comment.

Sheahen said the district attorney’s decision has no bearing on a federal lawsuit currently awaiting trial Aug. 12.

ALSO:

Justin Bieber: Authorities defend response to egging allegations

Kelly Thomas case: D.A. could face political fallout from acquittals

4.4 earthquake near Fontana packed a big punch, resident says

Twitter: @cmaiduc

christine.maiduc@latimes.com

Copyright © 2014, Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-dorner-torrance-cop-no-charges-20140115,0,7490608.story#ixzz2qVAi3w9c

Looks like Purdue should have had that woman's lawyer. Some serious incompetence on the part of the police. I wonder what the service records of the officers in question look like.

**Easy E**

The Police also have a huge problem with dealing with Domestic Violence committed by one of its own. There was a pretty infamous story in Florida last year.

http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/two-gunshots/

**Ouze**

Easy E wrote:
The Police also have a huge problem with dealing with Domestic Violence committed by one of its own. There was a pretty infamous story in Florida last year.

http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/two-gunshots/

Man, I remember reading that article. It's a great read, if anyone ITT hasn't read it. After I read that I handed my wife my 1911 in it's holster to see if she could remove it. Much like the ME, she could not until I showed her how and even then she had a very hard time with it.

**RatBot**

I think I've seen this video before, sure as hell not gonna watch it now, because I don't need to get so violently angry I become sick. Complete and utter animals, and that jury are a bunch of morons.

**Nocturn**

Relapse wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Relapse wrote:
The video, for the first 15 minutes or so is Thomas sitting on the ground, as directed, and being harrased by a power tripping cop who easily has over 100 pounds on him. The cop then announces he is going to feth Thomas up and Thomas takes off running. The next 16 minutes or so are of the cops beating him to death as he lays face down, unable to move, screaming he was sorry and then calling for his father as he goes unconcious.

Thats pretty sucky.

I believe that this situation could have been handled much better than it was by all parties involved, and that, from the video, it did appear that the ofc. with the baton out was hoping for a fight.

That being said, I want to debunk a few myths that people tend to believe.

The vast majority of the time (and every time I've dealt with a resisting individual), the individual being detained will yell and complain loudly about being sorry, but will do nothing physically that the officer requests. Saying "I'm sorry, I'm sorry" is great, but I still need you to put your hands behind your back so I can handcuff you.

Same thing goes for the "I can't breathe" thing. I don't know what your intentions are, so until I have you securely handcuffed, I'm not letting you up off of the ground.

Many people hope that by saying these things, the police will back down

Relapse wrote:Even more so when you factor in that he only had the mental faculties of an 11 year old. He was well known to these cops, so they knew he wasn't all there, and they essentialy beat a child to death.

I am curious to know where you heard that he had the mental capacity of an 11 year-old. The only thing I was able to find was a few articles about him being schizophrenic.

He may have been well known to other officers in the department, but he wasn't to these officers. If he was, they wouldn't have had to go around and around with questioning him about his name, info, where he sleeps, etc.

Again, not trying to start an argument, just a discussion.

**Relapse**

Nocturn wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Relapse wrote:
The video, for the first 15 minutes or so is Thomas sitting on the ground, as directed, and being harrased by a power tripping cop who easily has over 100 pounds on him. The cop then announces he is going to feth Thomas up and Thomas takes off running. The next 16 minutes or so are of the cops beating him to death as he lays face down, unable to move, screaming he was sorry and then calling for his father as he goes unconcious.

Thats pretty sucky.

I believe that this situation could have been handled much better than it was by all parties involved, and that, from the video, it did appear that the ofc. with the baton out was hoping for a fight.

That being said, I want to debunk a few myths that people tend to believe.

The vast majority of the time (and every time I've dealt with a resisting individual), the individual being detained will yell and complain loudly about being sorry, but will do nothing physically that the officer requests. Saying "I'm sorry, I'm sorry" is great, but I still need you to put your hands behind your back so I can handcuff you.

Same thing goes for the "I can't breathe" thing. I don't know what your intentions are, so until I have you securely handcuffed, I'm not letting you up off of the ground.

Many people hope that by saying these things, the police will back down

Relapse wrote:Even more so when you factor in that he only had the mental faculties of an 11 year old. He was well known to these cops, so they knew he wasn't all there, and they essentialy beat a child to death.

I am curious to know where you heard that he had the mental capacity of an 11 year-old. The only thing I was able to find was a few articles about him being schizophrenic.

He may have been well known to other officers in the department, but he wasn't to these officers. If he was, they wouldn't have had to go around and around with questioning him about his name, info, where he sleeps, etc.

Again, not trying to start an argument, just a discussion.

Kelly was known to at least the fat cop who refered to other encounters with him at 2:42 into the video.

How could Kelly have handled it any better than what he was doing by sitting on the ground as directed, and trying to comply with the touch his knees, straighten his legs acrobatics that the cop was ordering him to do?
Until the cop started putting on the rubber gloves announcing he was going to feth him up and started slapping him, at around 16:00 into the video, he was seated and offered no physical confrontation. At that point he stood, began being beaten, and in a panic, took off.
The animals then thought it in the best interests of public safety to beat him to death for about 15 minutes.
There was no way he could comply with the orders to put his hands behind his back, because he was face down, being beaten to death by both these bastards with fat ass sitting on top of him.

There can be no defense for what we all saw in the video.

All that being said, people like Kelly should be in treatment centers getting help and not be kicked out onto the streets where they can hurt or be hurt.

**Nocturn**

Relapse wrote:
Nocturn wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Relapse wrote:
The video, for the first 15 minutes or so is Thomas sitting on the ground, as directed, and being harrased by a power tripping cop who easily has over 100 pounds on him. The cop then announces he is going to feth Thomas up and Thomas takes off running. The next 16 minutes or so are of the cops beating him to death as he lays face down, unable to move, screaming he was sorry and then calling for his father as he goes unconcious.

Thats pretty sucky.

I believe that this situation could have been handled much better than it was by all parties involved, and that, from the video, it did appear that the ofc. with the baton out was hoping for a fight.

That being said, I want to debunk a few myths that people tend to believe.

The vast majority of the time (and every time I've dealt with a resisting individual), the individual being detained will yell and complain loudly about being sorry, but will do nothing physically that the officer requests. Saying "I'm sorry, I'm sorry" is great, but I still need you to put your hands behind your back so I can handcuff you.

Same thing goes for the "I can't breathe" thing. I don't know what your intentions are, so until I have you securely handcuffed, I'm not letting you up off of the ground.

Many people hope that by saying these things, the police will back down

Relapse wrote:Even more so when you factor in that he only had the mental faculties of an 11 year old. He was well known to these cops, so they knew he wasn't all there, and they essentialy beat a child to death.

I am curious to know where you heard that he had the mental capacity of an 11 year-old. The only thing I was able to find was a few articles about him being schizophrenic.

He may have been well known to other officers in the department, but he wasn't to these officers. If he was, they wouldn't have had to go around and around with questioning him about his name, info, where he sleeps, etc.

Again, not trying to start an argument, just a discussion.

Kelly was known to at least the fat cop who refered to other encounters with him at 2:42 into the video.

How could Kelly have handled it any better than what he was doing by sitting on the ground as directed, and trying to comply with the touch his knees, straighten his legs acrobatics that the cop was ordering him to do?
Until the cop started putting on the rubber gloves announcing he was going to feth him up and started slapping him, at around 16:00 into the video, he was seated and offered no physical confrontation. At that point he stood, began being beaten, and in a panic, took off.
The animals then thought it in the best interests of public safety to beat him to death for about 15 minutes.
There was no way he could comply with the orders to put his hands behind his back, because he was face down, being beaten to death by both these bastards with fat ass sitting on top of him.

There can be no defense for what we all saw in the video.

All that being said, people like Kelly should be in treatment centers getting help and not be kicked out onto the streets where they can hurt or be hurt.

To be fair to all involved, that video wasn't the clearest. It's possible that they were pinning him intentionally, but it's also possible that they were trying to get to his hands, and he want letting them. It's a bad angle, and a good portion of it lies behind the tree on the right.

I won't speak of if I think they're guilty or innocent, as I wasn't at the trial. Likewise, nobody knows what the jury thought when they acquitted the two former officers. The whole comment about them possibly thinking it was a lapse in judgement is nothing more than speculation.

We also don't know everything that went in in the trial, so who are we to judge? I try my best not to MMQB incidents like this without knowing the whole story.

And Kelly wasn't complying with the officer's orders. He was specifically told to keep kids legs out in front of him, with his hands on his knees.

He wasn't patted down for weapons, which is why they wanted his hands visible. They didn't know if he had a weapon or not.

Also, when someone keeps bringing their legs in from a stretched out position, it's a goodood indication that they're going to run. I don't know what went on inside his head, so there's no way to determine if he made the decision to run before or after the officer gloved up.

The way the officer spoke only made the situation worse though. There are plenty of ways to get your point across without threatening to feth somebody up, such as "if you do not comply with my orders, I will tase/spray you."

If you explain it that way, they'll realize that you're informing them of your lawful ability to use force, whereas threatening to feth someone up just serves to make you look like a thug who's above the law.

Again, please provide your source for the whole "11 year old mentality" thing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I don't see where he slaps Kelly. Kelly moves his left arm, and the officer puts his hand on Kelly's shoulder. Kelly's response, was to them push the officer's hand away and stand up, at which point the officer draws the baton.

From Kelly's viewpoint, it would have seemed like the officer was trying to push him down when he put his hand on his shoulder. At the time, Kelly knew he wasn't going for a weapon, so the force used by the officer didn't seem justified, hence the reason why he pushed the officer's hand away and stood up.

From the officer's viewpoint, when Kelly moved his left hand, he could have been reaching for a weapon. They didn't search him, so they didn't know if he was armed or not. To ensure that he wasn't reaching for a weapon, the officer grabbed Kelly's shoulder, at which point his hand was pushed away and Kelly stood up.

If I legitimately thought that someone had a weapon and was reaching for it, I'd pull out my baton too.

Kelly saw the baton, which, because of'what the officer previously said, only made the threat of being fethed up even more real, and tried to get away.

The officer, still not knowing if Kelly had a weapon or not, saw Kelly turning to run, at which point the physical altercation started.

Again, this is just my attempt at recreating the scenario, assuming no ill intent on either side.

EDIT: spelling and punctuation. My phone likes to autocorrect things incorrectly.