Top 16 Adepticon Lists 2014

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**Budzerker**

jy2 wrote:
Not that I am complaining, but I went up against a unit with:

2 2+/3++ Chapter Masters
Tigirius
Coteaz
Inquisitor

Yes, that was all in 1 unit and they beat down my 2 wraithstar units with the help of Prescience, Forewarning, Misfortune and force weapons. Ouch!

Yeah, that anomaly has got to go.

Lots of people complaining about these death star/combo units. Can we just eliminate battle brothers already? They all drop to allies of convenience?

**RiTides**

Agreed, that is a great article! Two detachment limit would be most welcome.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Referring to this post:

thehod wrote:
You should toot your own horn Reecius, you wrote a good article on BOLS.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/04/40k-meta-watch-post-adepticon.html

**DarthDiggler**

jy2 wrote:
Not that I am complaining, but I went up against a unit with:

2 2+/3++ Chapter Masters
Tigirius
Coteaz
Inquisitor

Yes, that was all in 1 unit and they beat down my 2 wraithstar units with the help of Prescience, Forewarning, Misfortune and force weapons. Ouch!

Yeah, that anomaly has got to go.

That takes a lots of balls to say, Jim, from a guy who spams every Wraith he can into a list, takes minimum troops all in flyers and calls it a fair list. You got out cheesed and now cry. You now sound like most of the guys you have beaten in the past with your lists.

I agree that Deathstar should go, along with most of the others, but you are not the kind of player who should advocate for it. Not until you change your own lists.

**Asmodai Asmodean**

To all you Deathstar haters out there: Go run your own 5th edition tournament, kthxbye.

JY2 complaining about balance, that's a new one

The same tools are available to every player. It's up to people to best use them. It's not like you can't buy and build a deathstar of your own. If you're whining about combos, maybe the tournament scene isn't for you.

Still not sure how FMC spam topped out, but Adepticon had a helluva odd mission pack. I doubt his list would place in a UK setting.

**RiTides**

Rather than going back to 5th, allowing dataslates in lieu of allies and allowing knights may take care of it on it's own, anyway.

In Reecius' article above he suggests allowing 2 detachments (formations count as one) plus things like Belakor. That would really help fix things, too. Otherwise, the armies on the table just look stupid when built for maximum effect, and that should not be the case (tau-eldar-inquisition in one list).

**krootman.**

jifel wrote:
yermom wrote:
I wrote an article going over all of my games on torrent of fire. http://www.torrentoffire.com/4339/how-the-win-went-down

Congratulations on a well deserved victory! No doubt you had some strong opponents and faced some very good lists. I would love to have seen you play Blackmoor, as Nids are a a bit of a wrench in the metas gears.

I played a nid list round one with the same list, 11s on the warp storm are pretty bad for nids. Even if they are a horde list, its not too hard to get rid of the synapse (unless its in a bastion). The old book was a more difficult match up then the new book imo. I think the new dataslate with the gargs will go along way to making nids more competitive.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Budzerker wrote:
jy2 wrote:
Not that I am complaining, but I went up against a unit with:

2 2+/3++ Chapter Masters
Tigirius
Coteaz
Inquisitor

Yes, that was all in 1 unit and they beat down my 2 wraithstar units with the help of Prescience, Forewarning, Misfortune and force weapons. Ouch!

Yeah, that anomaly has got to go.

Lots of people complaining about these death star/combo units. Can we just eliminate battle brothers already? They all drop to allies of convenience?

While I agree deathstars are bad for 40k, there are ways to play around them. MSU, fmc circus, and some other builds (serpent spam) will beat most deathstar armies. Also the new mission catalog will go along way toward solving deathstars.

**Kolbalt266**

Any news on the top 16 for the Exterminatus event???

**DaddyWarcrimes**

I don't think the Exterminatus even had 16 players.

**Chancetragedy**

Exterminatus had 13 players. FMC demons won. I believe there were also 6 reaver titans.

**cammy**

a lot of eldar, dark eldar inquisition in that top list

**Asmodai Asmodean**

Chancetragedy wrote:
Exterminatus had 13 players. FMC demons won. I believe there were also 6 reaver titans.

Lol, Escalation 40k is so dead in the water.

**SwistakCZC**

Please tell me how this LotD list worked it out to the top? In my opinion its rather weak list guys. Are there any tricks I cant spot at the first glance? (i havent read LotD dex, are there any curiosities?)

**Chancetragedy**

I think he used the legion to hunt troops while stuff sat in a fortress or wave serpent then tried to just win objectives. I didn't actually get a comprehensive breakdown of how he used it though.

**culsandar**

Chancetragedy wrote:
Exterminatus had 13 players. FMC demons won. I believe there were also 6 reaver titans.

No FMC Demons didn't win. Necrons with Ctan did.

**jy2**

DarthDiggler wrote:
jy2 wrote:
Not that I am complaining, but I went up against a unit with:

2 2+/3++ Chapter Masters
Tigirius
Coteaz
Inquisitor

Yes, that was all in 1 unit and they beat down my 2 wraithstar units with the help of Prescience, Forewarning, Misfortune and force weapons. Ouch!

Yeah, that anomaly has got to go.

That takes a lots of balls to say, Jim, from a guy who spams every Wraith he can into a list, takes minimum troops all in flyers and calls it a fair list. You got out cheesed and now cry. You now sound like most of the guys you have beaten in the past with your lists.

I agree that Deathstar should go, along with most of the others, but you are not the kind of player who should advocate for it. Not until you change your own lists.

There's nothing wrong with disliking particular combos.

Some don't like spam.

Some people don't like necron troops in flyers.

Some don't like jetbike troops that can move 48" in 1 turn.

Many don't like the ability of the Tau to break so many of the BRB rules.

Many don't like re-rollable shenanigans.

Many don't like D-weapons in normal 40K.

Just because I am a competitive player doesn't mean I have to like everything that is out there. To me, it isn't even about cheese. Heck, if I all I cared about was winning, I'd run the same combos and I'd run deathstar40k either.

BTW, this has nothing to do with the players. I just don't like some of the legal but exploitable combos in existence currently. That's all.

**NeedleOfInquiry**

Eliminate allies completely....

Stops most of the abuse.

Play one army.

**jy2**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
To all you Deathstar haters out there: Go run your own 5th edition tournament, kthxbye.

JY2 complaining about balance, that's a new one

The same tools are available to every player. It's up to people to best use them. It's not like you can't buy and build a deathstar of your own. If you're whining about combos, maybe the tournament scene isn't for you.

Still not sure how FMC spam topped out, but Adepticon had a helluva odd mission pack. I doubt his list would place in a UK setting.

Honestly, there is nothing wrong with deathstars. I myself run Draigowing. It's just the force-multiplication factor of certain deathstar combos that I am not particularly fond of. Some of these combos are just so gamebreaking that it just isn't fun playing against them. They are just plain stupid. I'd play against them, but it's more of a chore than an enjoyable experience.

**SwistakCZC**

And tell me one thing guys, except this LotD I dont understand one thing, how this centurionstar is so good? Here in Poland there aren't any lists like this on tournaments, so I dont know it.

This centurion squad with all that IC is kinda nice and tough, can put a lot of damage, but overall its not so mobile I think even rather slow. And this list against daemons? Its pretty auto-lose. It should have problems against any non-elite army imho.

**carmachu**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
To all you Deathstar haters out there: Go run your own 5th edition tournament, kthxbye.

JY2 complaining about balance, that's a new one

The same tools are available to every player. It's up to people to best use them. It's not like you can't buy and build a deathstar of your own. If you're whining about combos, maybe the tournament scene isn't for you.

Still not sure how FMC spam topped out, but Adepticon had a helluva odd mission pack. I doubt his list would place in a UK setting.

Wow, real mature response. *rolls eyes*

Here's the thing- not everyone wants a deathstar. Further still I shook my head at all but3 lists of uing multiple books. Maybe 'm a grogand, but 40k has jumped theshark as far as I can tell.

**Mannahnin**

In 5th people made the same kind of complaints about vhiclespam MSU armies. The wheel always comes around.

It was a bit exacerbated by Adepticon's missions being a bit behind the curve this time, which is not usually the case. KPs were a primary objective in most missions, which was an important balancing factor two years ago during 5th, but is outdated now, and is currently rewarding the deahtstars, to which MSU is a natural and important counter.

**krootman.**

carmachu wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
To all you Deathstar haters out there: Go run your own 5th edition tournament, kthxbye.

JY2 complaining about balance, that's a new one

The same tools are available to every player. It's up to people to best use them. It's not like you can't buy and build a deathstar of your own. If you're whining about combos, maybe the tournament scene isn't for you.

Still not sure how FMC spam topped out, but Adepticon had a helluva odd mission pack. I doubt his list would place in a UK setting.

Wow, real mature response. *rolls eyes*

Here's the thing- not everyone wants a deathstar. Further still I shook my head at all but3 lists of uing multiple books. Maybe 'm a grogand, but 40k has jumped theshark as far as I can tell.

You know a lot of the people who run these lists (myself included) arnt very fond of them and don't think they are very fun or good for the game and are activity trying to figure out ways to rebalance the game. That said we arnt going to stop brining what wins to top level gts ( some players have) you can't fault competitive players for trying to win a competitive event.

**Dozer Blades**

Those are all very good points. I think the best way to address them is through the missions like MVB and others are doing.

**OrdoSean**

Love me some deathstar 40k. Vect karandras eldrad beasts 1005pts of awesome every time.

**carmachu**

krootman. wrote:

You know a lot of the people who run these lists (myself included) arnt very fond of them and don't think they are very fun or good for the game and are activity trying to figure out ways to rebalance the game. That said we arnt going to stop brining what wins to top level gts ( some players have) you can't fault competitive players for trying to win a competitive event.

Didn't say I fault you for running what needs to win, but I also don't have to support you, tournements or GW while having rule sets I find sucky either. My free time is too precious to waste time, money and energy building and playing something I don't like or consider fun just for the sake of winning. but to each their own.

**Jackal**

1:Only two detachments in a list. What that means is you can take a primary and secondary detachments, but no more. Space Marines+Inquisition. Space Marines+Imperial Guard. But not all three. You can take add-ons that fit in your primary detachment such as Be'Lakor that won't count towards your limit. This cuts back on the cherry picked Inquisitor that sits around throwing magical grenades and adding Servo Skulls randomly into lists as well as less of the ubiquitous Coteaz. You can still take Inquisition if you want, just not all of it at once. You have to make choices instead of just taking the best of everything. Too many Inquisitorial allies cuts down on variety as if you go to an event knowing 70% of the field will be able to totally shut down your Scouts/Infiltrators/Deep Strikers/Etc. people will choose not to bring those types of units. Plus, it is stupid to see an all Xenos army led by a Coteaz against Imperial armies...also led by a Coteaz. Yeah.

2: Formations are in, but count as a detachment. This means you can take Skyblight or the Tau formation but at the cost of an ally. We find this to be quite fair and it makes Nids a top tier build who bring anti-Deathstar ability to the game to help balance the meta. Plus, it opens up some cool, fun lists.

3: Imperial Knights are in. We would have done this anyway as Knights are super fun, but Imperial Knights can do sufficient damage to Deathstars with support to crack them and make them not so ludicrously durable. It will force players to think twice about taking a Star if Knights are on the prowl.

Now these rules i do like.
Keeps things balanced to some degree and everything working as close as it can to being right.
The formations also help alot, since most people will take the ally instead anyway.
However, this covers nids and helps them out to no end.
Also, there really isnt the points in the game for nids to spam any more than 1 formation, so adds even more balance.

Think i might have to drag this ruleset up and keep it in use down this way, as it looks pretty damn good.

**Uriels_Flame**

So basically no one wants to play 40k 6th ed?

Where's all the RAW/RAI folks?

Holding tournaments not allowing to play the game as written? Really?

I didn't like hero hammer in 2nd, rhino rush in 3rd, didn't play 4th (and thank goodness), Wound allocation in 5th (but ran a nob biker army), and/or allies in 6th.

So I am going to hold my own tourney and be "out of the box" by allowing everyone to play the game as written.

What a concept!

Or I'll hold a tourney where everyone has to play a different army - can't face two of the exact same FOC. That actually sounds pretty fun.

**jy2**

OrdoSean wrote:
Love me some deathstar 40k. Vect karandras eldrad beasts 1005pts of awesome every time.

Congrats on your Top 4 performance!

Uriels_Flame wrote:
So basically no one wants to play 40k 6th ed?

Where's all the RAW/RAI folks?

Holding tournaments not allowing to play the game as written? Really?

I didn't like hero hammer in 2nd, rhino rush in 3rd, didn't play 4th (and thank goodness), Wound allocation in 5th (but ran a nob biker army), and/or allies in 6th.

So I am going to hold my own tourney and be "out of the box" by allowing everyone to play the game as written.

What a concept!

Or I'll hold a tourney where everyone has to play a different army - can't face two of the exact same FOC. That actually sounds pretty fun.

Sure, it's your time/money. If you think people will like your idea of tournament play, then more power to you. We need more TO's.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jackal wrote:
Now these rules i do like.
Keeps things balanced to some degree and everything working as close as it can to being right.
The formations also help alot, since most people will take the ally instead anyway.
However, this covers nids and helps them out to no end.
Also, there really isnt the points in the game for nids to spam any more than 1 formation, so adds even more balance.

Think i might have to drag this ruleset up and keep it in use down this way, as it looks pretty damn good.

The idea is to restrict how ridiculous some armies/combos can get and to help out the weaker armies. I mean, come on. Everyone gets allies and formations. Nids get squat!

But yeah, I'm liking what some of the TO's are talking about.

**Uriels_Flame**

jy2 wrote:

Sure, it's your time/money. If you think people will like your idea of tournament play, then more power to you. We need more TO's.

Well, seeing as I would probably get 3 entries and then no one else - it might be problematic fielding 16 entries <sarcasm off>

**Red Corsair**

krootman. wrote:
carmachu wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
To all you Deathstar haters out there: Go run your own 5th edition tournament, kthxbye.

JY2 complaining about balance, that's a new one

The same tools are available to every player. It's up to people to best use them. It's not like you can't buy and build a deathstar of your own. If you're whining about combos, maybe the tournament scene isn't for you.

Still not sure how FMC spam topped out, but Adepticon had a helluva odd mission pack. I doubt his list would place in a UK setting.

Wow, real mature response. *rolls eyes*

Here's the thing- not everyone wants a deathstar. Further still I shook my head at all but3 lists of uing multiple books. Maybe 'm a grogand, but 40k has jumped theshark as far as I can tell.

You know a lot of the people who run these lists (myself included) arnt very fond of them and don't think they are very fun or good for the game and are activity trying to figure out ways to rebalance the game. That said we arnt going to stop brining what wins to top level gts ( some players have) you can't fault competitive players for trying to win a competitive event.

Sure we can, it's called taking responsibility for your own actions. It's easy in life to solve your problems by throwing another person under a bus, even if it's within the rules but that that doesn't make it right.

Players should take a long hard look at their lists before attending an event and ask if it's whats best for the community.

It's not like many people outside those few top tables care who wins these events. Winning at a broken game is bittersweet to say the least. Making all your opponents love the game more by showing personal restraint and a higher level of integrity should be the goal. Instead it has devolved into a number by a list of names on TOF.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

carmachu wrote:
krootman. wrote:

You know a lot of the people who run these lists (myself included) arnt very fond of them and don't think they are very fun or good for the game and are activity trying to figure out ways to rebalance the game. That said we arnt going to stop brining what wins to top level gts ( some players have) you can't fault competitive players for trying to win a competitive event.

Didn't say I fault you for running what needs to win, but I also don't have to support you, tournements or GW while having rule sets I find sucky either. My free time is too precious to waste time, money and energy building and playing something I don't like or consider fun just for the sake of winning. but to each their own.

I agree, this is also why so many people I know have stopped playing.

**RiTides**

Jackal wrote:

1:Only two detachments in a list. What that means is you can take a primary and secondary detachments, but no more. Space Marines+Inquisition. Space Marines+Imperial Guard. But not all three. You can take add-ons that fit in your primary detachment such as Be'Lakor that won't count towards your limit. This cuts back on the cherry picked Inquisitor that sits around throwing magical grenades and adding Servo Skulls randomly into lists as well as less of the ubiquitous Coteaz. You can still take Inquisition if you want, just not all of it at once. You have to make choices instead of just taking the best of everything. Too many Inquisitorial allies cuts down on variety as if you go to an event knowing 70% of the field will be able to totally shut down your Scouts/Infiltrators/Deep Strikers/Etc. people will choose not to bring those types of units. Plus, it is stupid to see an all Xenos army led by a Coteaz against Imperial armies...also led by a Coteaz. Yeah.

2: Formations are in, but count as a detachment. This means you can take Skyblight or the Tau formation but at the cost of an ally. We find this to be quite fair and it makes Nids a top tier build who bring anti-Deathstar ability to the game to help balance the meta. Plus, it opens up some cool, fun lists.

3: Imperial Knights are in. We would have done this anyway as Knights are super fun, but Imperial Knights can do sufficient damage to Deathstars with support to crack them and make them not so ludicrously durable. It will force players to think twice about taking a Star if Knights are on the prowl.

Now these rules i do like.
Keeps things balanced to some degree and everything working as close as it can to being right.
The formations also help alot, since most people will take the ally instead anyway.
However, this covers nids and helps them out to no end.
Also, there really isnt the points in the game for nids to spam any more than 1 formation, so adds even more balance.

Think i might have to drag this ruleset up and keep it in use down this way, as it looks pretty damn good.

Totally agreed, Jackal! I love those tourney rules Reecius wrote that you quoted above