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On a side note I'm just going to say a fun thing to do is tally the dead! See how many skulls can roll for the skull god by the end of the game! As long as one has been lopped/shot/etc off then Khorne has been provided at least a flow of blood!

Hug cover and be sneaky - this tends to work wonders on the opposition, and prolongs the battle greatly, however you will likely lose on VPs.

The one who could really help you here is my GF, she is very good at taking a small, gakky force and doing quite a bit of damage with it through careful defense and very well timed assaults

Hey, you're a Khorne player, you shouldn't be worried about your army- Khorne cares not from where the blood flows!

But on a more serious note, I think there's a balance between fluffiness and effective. Something like putting the Mark of Khorne might seems like a good idea to reinforce the theme, but you have to ask yourself "does not spending these points on this mark diminish the theme I am propagating?"

I think a lot of times painting and converting goes farther unifying a force than list-building ever does. And to that extent you can make army selections that are more competitive with the current meta without sacrificing the narrative you're...er, forging (sorry, couldn't help it).

My brother plays mono-Khorne, and I've played against it multiple times. My advise based on playing them multiple times:

- You definately need more cultists, unless they get very lucky they won't kill 20-30 of them in a single shooting phase. They can also act as an escort for a Lord, who would let them stick around longer.

- "Rhinos, RHINOS!!! Our enemies hide in METUL BAWXES!" Based on personal experience, Rhinos can be handy to protect squads embacked from enemy shooting. So what they're not assault vehicles, footslogging guarentees a T3 charge, same with the rhino, but rhinos overall are faster and provide aformentioned protection.

- Single units of Maulerfiends and bikes are too easy to kill. Double up on them and at least one will survive to do damage.

- If it is within your power, get 2 vindicators. They are very powerful, don't cost too much, can fit with a Khorne-centric army, and they distract the enemy from squishier elements in your army.

- As other people said, Havocs can be Khornate as well. Get 5 w/ autocannons sounds to be the best option for taking down mid AV vehicles and MCs (and can get lucky when shooting flyers).

- Make sure there is at least some LoS blocking terrain. Lots of stuff ignore cover nowadays so relying on just cover isn't quite enough, given =][=, Tau, and Eldar having many things to ignore it.

Just keep in mid I don't play it myself, its just my observations.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
We're all here to have fun, what's the point telling someone else they should just quit?

I told you that you should quit because you should quit. 40k is clearly not the game for you. You want a game where you can display your awesome models, but 40k is a game designed around the rule that everything dies as fast as possible. This is even more true when you're dedicated to playing a non-competitive melee army in an edition that overwhelmingly favors shooting. So you have two choices:

1) Quit, and spend your time and money on a game that you actually enjoy.

or

2) Stubbornly insist on playing 40k, make some ineffective changes to your list, and continue to have the same problems. You probably won't be any happier, and you'll have wasted more time and effort trying. And you'll probably quit anyway.

While again Peregrine is harsh, he has a point. There isn't really anything you *can* do to stop your models getting killed quickly, just possibly less quickly than before.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
Unfortunately, I hate the Spawn models, and I won't play models that I don't like. I might be convinced if there was an alternative model I could use that still made sense, but I'm not a huge fan of their story, I don't think they'd fit it.

Oh well, it looks like I'm doomed to have a bad army. In my head they are still badasses.

I use Dire Wolves. They look way more Khornate.



Anyway, there are ways of making relatively competitive Khornate style rush lists. Maybe something like,

Mace Prince w/ Wings

5 Khorne Spawn, Lord on Juggernaut w/ AoBF
Heldrake
Heldrake

Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend

2 x 10 Cultists to babysit things backfield

Then just add in CSM squads to fill out the list. Something like the above should play super aggressive. You've got 4 units moving like Beasts (the 3 Maulerfiends and the Spawn), and the Mace Prince can hide behind the Maulerfiends. It's not the best army in the world and it is going to get blown away by Taudar but it might be fun to play.

Do those you regularly play against feel the same way about the game?

If it is the background and models that are your biggest draw to the game perhaps finding some better written rules and using your 40k models to play it would be best.

I'm not well versed in the alternate rule sets but perhaps someone here can suggest something where games would play out more how you'd like.

I've seen Tomorrow's War and Warpath suggested in the past.

My suggestion doesn't involve changing your army at all.
Use more terrain and things they can hide in or behind. You can't shoot what you can't see. Really how many sci-fi wars are going to take place on massive open fields where you can blast each other. That mentality went out the window in medieval times when they realised it wasn't working.

My alternative suggestion is one that has been covered. Buy more models for specific reasons like rhino transports as something to get about faster or faster troops.
There are also options to use codex marines or forge world rules if you would like to but this is of course your call.

My opinion though will always be this.
You only engage the enemy on your terms therefore you need to have more terrain etc to allow for it.
Alternatively if you were my opponent I'd allow you to use chaos drop pods or land raider variants. Why not... It's all in fun anyway.
You can ask your opponent. If they're not just there to win they won't mind. We'd have to balance some things but it'd be fun.

A big part of this game is in constructing a viable army. Most units have a particular place on the field. The main thing here is to understand that not all builds are equally viable and the success of your army will depend, in part, on the player across the table from you and what they brought.

For example, if your army is full of troop choices with basic firearms and your opponent brings a lot of mech units that have large blast templates.. then you'll likely be hosed. Essentially it's the old "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" statement. It doesn't matter if that is the prettiest knife on the planet...the guy with the gun has an advantage.

The only real advice anyone can give you is to say that you need to spend a bit of time looking at what is normally fielded at your local store then take some time to analyze their tactics. Once that is done, build a list and strategy that can compete. It might be as simple as just changing how you are fielding your current troops. It might be that you figure out that you have a hole which needs to be filled. Either way, do this before spending ANY more money on your army.


Several of the old Art of War quotes are absolutely relevant here. Namely:

Art of War wrote:
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

I suspect your a victim of the latter statement. Namely that you have an army but you aren't sure how to wield it correctly and that you really don't have any idea of what's good/bad about your various opponents armies. You can have a perfectly fluffy army that is tuned to wrecking face. But you have to know how to use it.

Peregrine was right to some extent - Things die quick in 40k. There are ways around it, sure - One is good saves (invulnerables, preferrably with a reroll), the other is bodies. Khorne may have a hard time getting access to the former (Tzeentch daemon allies and FNP Nurgle are the way to go) but can easily get the latter. Failing that, remember to use LOS-Blocking terrain and cover.

Okay, let's take a look at that list.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
I have.

1x Chaos Lord
2x Cultists (10 members each)
1x Chosen Marines (6 members)
1x Possessed Marines (5 members)
1x Helbrute
1x Bike Squad (3 members)
1x Maulerfiend

1x Daemon Prince
2x Bloodletters (10 members each)

Waiting to be built I have...

1x Bloodthirster
1x Terminator Lord
1x Terminator Squad (5 members)
1x Chaos Marines (10 members)
1x Rhino
1x Warp Talons/Raptors (5 members, I haven't decided yet which to build)

In general, I'd say your list suffers from the dreaded "one of everything" syndrome and could do with some streamlining. In my opinion, a good 40k list has a) Troops b) Scary things that keep the enemy from shooting at your troops. Right now, you have neither of those, but don't give up yet, you're almost there

First, the most glaring issue with your army: A chronic lack of troops. Cultists were a godsend for Chaos players, but have to be used in numbers to be really effective. The two squads from Dark Vengeance cover the minimum troops requirement, but are otherwise too flimsy to properly fulfill their role. I suggest you buch them into a unit of 20, and use them as bodyguards/meatshields for your most killy close combat character. Better yet, get the Helbrute dataslate from GW and field them in a Helcult - Either way, use your mob of expendable cultists as "ablative wounds" for more powerful units or characters.

Get another unit of CSM ASAP. In the end, scoring troops are what decide a battle. The rest is just meant to either decrease the effectiveness of the enemy (by killing things, mostly) or just looking so awesome they manage to attract to them the scary weaponry that would otherwise be directed at your troops.

Bloodletters? I wouldn't bother bringing but the bare minimum. They are the suitably-themed tax required to field better things. Like that Bloodthirster of yours. Get it painted and field it, you'll see it drawing a lot of attention. Combine it with other fast, hard hitting units (bikers, maulerfiends) and you will discover the wonders of target saturation: Pointing several serious threats at your foe and forcing him/her to make hard choices.

Speaking of which, Maulerfiends work better in pairs

Biker squads need to be larger to work. Consider getting some more to go with them.

I don't have a lot of experience dealing with Raptors, but by the sound of it they seem a nice unit for backfield disruption. I won't expect them to survive long or give you the game, but used sensibly they might distract your opponent's key units (i.e. ranged threats) for a turn or so, long enough for your killy stuff to bridge the dreaded midfield gap.

The Chosen from DV are woefully bad. I love the miniatures, but they have just the wrong gear for any duty. If you insist on using them, have them ride a Land Raider - Same can be said of your terminators, if you've kitted them for Close Combat. Just like their loyalist brothers, some CSM builds require the Raider to work.

Finally, go light on marks and upgrades. There's no sense in wasting points in MoK for units that won't be ever seeing close combat.

Hope it helps, good luck!

The Sun Tzu quote sums it up pretty well. A few tips

1. Read up! Know the strengths and weakness of your units, the good builds, and more or less the strengths and weakness of each other army. Know the rules inside and out. General tactics on how to play go a long way. Re enacting the charge of the light brigade over and over will end up with your pretty army being shot off the table time after time. That kind of stuff has not worked in reality for over 100 years, do you think it will work in 40k land?

2. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. If your bringing your themed army up against a hardcore tournament list, your going to get stomped quickly and mercilessly.Explain beforehand that your running a soft, themed army that is not competitive, so your opponent does not throw down something so brutal you have no chance. I usually bring 2-3 lists when I go to my club, at least one competitive and one casual, maybe some in between. This way, I can get a game in with the person that has 4 helldrakes, or the person with a soft list.
Another way to keep the fight even is to play the correct points level. If you are struggling to field 1500 points by taking every upgrade known to man, your going to simply be outnumbered and outgunned by most other lists. Make sure you have sufficient bodies and guns for the points level(see, tactics). Generally, you want boys over toys, and some toys are far better than others.

3. Accept that death is a thing. This is 40k, it is all about being grimdark as grimdarkly possible. Fleets, planets, armies, races, craftworlds, etc are removed from existence in less than a day. People and things die left and right to anything and everything possible. The game reflects this- almost every living thing can die to a lasgun if shot enough, and even the toughest armor is vulnerable. Regardless of how awesome your models are, they can and will die very easily. Great heroes and monsters can and will be killed by the most random things. A universe where everything dies, and a game with dice is going to make for short lived...everything. If you can't accept that, then your always going to be unhappy when some random guardsmen blasts down your beautiful bloodletters.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:

I have.

1x Chaos Lord
2x Cultists (10 members each)
1x Chosen Marines (6 members)
1x Possessed Marines (5 members)
1x Helbrute
1x Bike Squad (3 members)
1x Maulerfiend

1x Daemon Prince
2x Bloodletters (10 members each)

Okay, so going by what you have done/waiting for loving attention, you've got a very workable base to expand on. For the true Khornate lover, you can try;
- merge the Cultists into 1 large squad. Generally, squads of essentially naked T3 dudes need numbers - lots and lots of numbers! to be effective. Killing 10 T3 grunts is easy, even a lowly Tactical squad can gut you in a single turn. 20 takes some effort. 30+ takes focused fire from a good chunk of the enemy to kill off!

- Save the Chosen to use as Aspiring Champs for now. It appears you've got a Dark Vengeance set, and unfortunately for you, the DV Chosen squad is really dyslexic in it's load out. Generally you want to equip a squad to fulfill one main role. The DV Chosen however are trying to do too much of 'a little bit of everything!' to be viable.
If you want them stacked with assault goodness, then I'd pick 1-2 types of weapons for them to carry, (ie: 3-4 pairs of Lightning claws + a Fist or two for killing marines effectively), AND, get them a Land Raider to safely truck about the battlefield without getting shot to bits so easily! (and being an assault vehicle, you can assault right out of it!)

- You need more Bikes. 3 is too few and even a single kill loses you a lot of pts & unit effectiveness. Try doubling it to 6, or better yet, take 8 of 'em and honour your God's sacred number!
Giving two of them bike-mounted Meltaguns is helpful as well as you can use their speed to hit enemy vehicles quickly and/or in their squishier side/rear armour.

- If you like Possessed a lot, then I highly suggest using the Crimson Slaughter codex rules. They have much better random abilities, and also count as a Troops choice! (you do however, lose your Axe of Blind Fury relic going this route, but the Blade of the Relentless is a solid replacement, and the suit of armour relic is heinous on a Jugger Lord!)

- Try this build on for size for your Chaos Daemons Prince: Daemon of Khorne + The Eternal Blade + Greater Gift + Wings.
250'ish pts which isn't too bad for a Prince, 66% chance of having both WS10/I10 (yikes!), +D3 attacks AND you're S8 on the charge, meaning T4 enemies suffer from the Instant Death! rule.
The beauty of the +D3 to your key stats means you maintain solid combat effectiveness, even if your opponent has a nasty ability that normally drops your stats!

- Bloodletters should be combined into 1 squad. Honestly, I'd take 16 due to the whole 'sacred numbers' backround.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
Waiting to be built I have...

1x Bloodthirster
1x Terminator Lord
1x Terminator Squad (5 members)
1x Chaos Marines (10 members)
1x Rhino
1x Warp Talons/Raptors (5 members, I haven't decided yet which to build)

- Cool thing about the Bloodthirster, he makes your Daemon Prince into a Heavy Support choice so you can actually ally both in!
His standard basic kit so enough to keep him going, but adding a Greater Gift for some added protection is always helpful. Or else you can even give him an Exalted Gift and have him carry the Grimoire of True Names - an item that can be used to (most of the time!) boost the invulnerable save of any model with the Daemon special rule. (so, it also works on CSM Possessed, Oblits, Warp Talons, etc...)

- The Termies are decent as Deep Striking melta squads. If you want them tearing it up in combat though, you really do need to give them a Land Raider to get them there.
However, paired Lightning clawed Termie w/MoK + Banner is pretty awful to be on the receiving end of!

- Chaos Marines should go in the Rhino as many others have mentioned. Note too you can give the Rhino a Combi-Meltagun for only a few pts, handy for an early game pot-shot at an enemy vehicle, as cover overall is less effective this edition due to so many armies pretty much ignoring it.

- Warp Talons have largely been written off as useless trash... Slap them with the Grimoire though, and enjoy a 3++ invuln save! (IF you decide to break the theme a wee bit and take some Divination psychic powers, you can first off cast Forewarning and then use the Grimoire to build a 2++ invlun save!)
Raptors as 5 men are cheap enough to use as a suicide Deep Strike unit with a pair of Meltaguns for tank popping.



Now, as for how to try and organise everything, you might want to eventually build towards:
(Note, I'm going to use Codex Crimson Slaughter, so the relics are different from those in CSM codex)

HQ: Jugger Lord w/MoK + Jugger (duh!) + Blade of the Relentless + Daemonheart + Sigil of Corruption + Melta bombs.
HQ: Dark Apostle w/MoK + Crozius of the Dark Covenant + Prophet of the Voices.
HQ: Bloodthirster of Khorne w/Grimoire of True Names (Exalted Gift that's defaulted to a Hellforged Artifact)

Elites: 5x Termies w/Mok + Icon of Wrath + paired Lightning claws + Land Raider dedicated transport. (could add a power fist or two for taking out T5-6+ enemies)
Elites: 8 Chosen w/mix of Plasma pistols/guns/Meltaguns and a power weapon/fist + Rhino

Troops: 8x Possessed + Rhino (Dark Apostle goes here! If you're really crazy, make it 16 and run them forwards in a giant mutated horde of crazy death!)
Troops: 8x Chaos Marines + Rhino (can add a special weapon + champ gear)
Troops: 8x Chaos Marines + Rhino (can add a special weapon + champ gear)
Troops: 24 or 32x Cultist blob (remember those sacred numbers - right?!)
Troops: 16x Bloodletters (Deep Strike them into play and drop them behind your main advance to stop them getting all shot up!)

Fast: 4x Spawn w/MoK (if you hate the Spawn models, try the likes of the Gorebeast from the Fantasy Warriors of Chaos Chariot kit, or maybe Dragon Ogres. Put that Jugger Lord here!!!)
Fast: 8x Bikes w/2x meltagun or plasma gun
Fast: Helldrake w/Baleflamer
Fast: 16x Flesh Hounds

Heavy: 8x Havocs w/4x Autocannon (great for popping medium vehicles like Wave Serpents.)
Heavy: Maulerfiend
Heavy: Land Raider can go hear as well (especially if you decide not to use Termies) and then can transport anyone right off the bat.
Heavy: Daemon Prince w/MoK + Eternal Blade (aka: Eternal Beatstick!) + Greater Gift + Wings.


Granted you won't use that all in one list! But it's plenty of options to play around with.
Nor is this by any means a tournament crushing list, (and Dakka will still likely laugh at it), but it's not pure weaksauce either as long as you can play against opponents who aren't running a top tier build. (ie: Triple Riptides, Wave Serpent spam, Screamerstar, etc... will wreck this easily, but those aren't "friendly" lists which seems to be more what you're after)
Still, with decent amounts of terrain on the table, good stratagy and against other non-highly optimised lists, this should still give most armies a run for their money while still looking super cool!

Eventually you could branch out and add more Daemons, thus allowing you to play them as the Primary and get access to some really cool tricks like Bloodcrushers led by Karanak the Hound of Vengeance (yay Scouting cavalry!), and/or bringing a Soul Grinder to the party (basically a Defiler on steroids!)
Plus you could lead those Hounds with a Jugger Herald who can give the unit Hatred, while also providing some ap2 attacks and being able to tank S8/9 shooting for the puppies, alongside other goodies like Skulltaker, Skull Cannon(s), more Hounds, more Heralds, etc...

Hey you might be in luck OP. Apparently the 7th edition comes out mid to late next month. Assault might actually be in!

Welcome to GW, where game balance is a myth.

If you are playing an army comprised of units you like and play it the way you would like to, you will most likely lose horribly in 40k. In 40k, you build your list according to whatever the rules currently favor heavily or your army is a crap bucket.

Right now assault armies are just horrible. Good on you for playing what you want, but 40k just isn't made to support that. If you stick to your guns and keep on trucking, you may get lucky and find a future edition/codex favoring your playing style while others find their playing style crapped on. Woo!

Accept that this is the way GW rolls and enjoy it or find a new game.

I think the newest C:CSM supplement had some bonuses for chosen and other CC units, might be worth picking up.

My original Sisters of Battle list had two squads of Repentia and two Penitent Engines. That was back in 3rd. Now I can't even use them because they're such a liablility. I even named my Order "Order of the Penitent Lady" because I wanted a penitent style army.
So, I had to change my list if I ever wanted to win. :(
That's very poor game design on GW's part. Why did they make two units out of a small codex so completely usless?
Adapt or die, I guess. But it's a lame decision to make.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
I think your fluff (Lore (Mythology (semantics! ))) works - which is saying a lot, compared to some fan fluff and, well, some actual fluff (See: Draigo).

Thanks dude, it's the lore and modeling (and hence matching each other) that I enjoy most in the game. However, I'm not familiar with the story of Draigo, what do you mean?

Kaldor Draigo. Apparently walks through the Warp fighting Daemons, casually carved his mentor's name into the heart of the daemon Primarch Mortarion... A lot of silly, OTT things that never needed to happen. A lot of us like to pretend he doesn't exist.

The games I've enjoyed most are the ones where both sides have less than 20% of their starting forces remaining at the end of the game.

The games I enjoyed the least are the ones against bad opponents, regardless of who won!

The problem with building out larger squads, in this particular case, is that it does not resolve the main problem. Your troops are still going to be dying in droves, the only difference is that there's so many more of them that the units they belong to are not going to be wiped out entirely as quickly, and might have the staying power to get enough guys into melee to actually do something... but you're still going to be putting models back into the box by the handful every time your opponent has a shooting phase.

It would really help to know what kind of lists you're commonly up against. Are you fighting other Space Marine armies? Tau armies? Orks? Tyranid? Guard?

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:

I have.

1x Chaos Lord
2x Cultists (10 members each)
1x Chosen Marines (6 members)
1x Possessed Marines (5 members)
1x Helbrute
1x Bike Squad (3 members)
1x Maulerfiend

1x Daemon Prince
2x Bloodletters (10 members each)

Waiting to be built I have...

1x Bloodthirster
1x Terminator Lord
1x Terminator Squad (5 members)
1x Chaos Marines (10 members)
1x Rhino
1x Warp Talons/Raptors (5 members, I haven't decided yet which to build)

Some things that can help:
-Use the Helbrute dataslate which can really help both of those units out (fearless for the cultists; improved cover save for the brute).
-Use the Crimson Slaughter book as your primary which means the Possessed have a better random table to roll on.
-You'll then be without troops, so you'll have to build those CSM, which you could consider making them into berserkers in a rhino. If not, make sure to put the Lord here to keep them fearless.

I was going to add more, but Experiment 626 gave you an excellent information dump that you should save and keep in mind when moving forward with building, painting, list building and playing.

I have.

1x Chaos Lord
2x Cultists (10 members each)
1x Chosen Marines (6 members)
1x Possessed Marines (5 members)
1x Helbrute
1x Bike Squad (3 members)
1x Maulerfiend

1x Daemon Prince
2x Bloodletters (10 members each)

Waiting to be built I have...

1x Bloodthirster
1x Terminator Lord
1x Terminator Squad (5 members)
1x Chaos Marines (10 members)
1x Rhino
1x Warp Talons/Raptors (5 members, I haven't decided yet which to build)

You have a decent base there. You are having trouble because you are missing all of the competitive units. Heldrake, Obliterators, Juggerlord, Khorne Hounds. In Time your collection will grow to include these things. For now, work on making your units more survivable. Put the bloodletters and cultists into 1 squad each instead of 2. Perhaps some of the new rules, crimson slaughter supplement or the helbrute dataslate will add to your army without taking away much.

I've not played a pitched battle game of 40k for over 3 months. Having been consistently destroyed by "casual" gamers who are running that months FOTM death star unit against my Fluff lists EG: full scout list (6 squads of scouts, in the scout transport with biker support etc) because I wanted to see what a fluffy list would play like. I've actually been having much more fun playing a heavily restricted smaller point games leading up to a narrative campaign.

Here's what I mean by restrictive:



I tell you what all the people I have played against (all 6 of them) have actually had an awesome amount of fun, it forces you to take lists you normally wouldn't and as its leading onto a narrative campaign there is so much more that can be done with it.

calamarialldayerrday wrote:most of my army is dead by my opponent's second shooting phase, and those models I worked tirelessly on for hours each, even the infantry, have to go back in the box after only a few minutes. I want to be able to give them the visibility they deserve

There is exactly one way in which your opponents can basically table your army by the end of their second player turn, and that's with gunlines. If your complaint is that gunlines vastly cheapen 40k, and that they limit your options to do anything, and ultimately work to suck the fun out of the game for everyone who doesn't run gunlines, then I'd agree. And link you here. What you're describing, and its effects on you isn't a new phenomenon.

There are kind of two ways to handle this. The first, and generally best way is to find people who share your point of view. People who won't let ease of winning get in the way of all the depth 40k has to offer. Just play with different players.

The second, more moderate approach is to just play different games of 40k. Instead of using the awful book missions, make up your own, better ones. Throw out the rules for terrain that so heavily encourage two trenches with a no-man's land in the middle. Place it thematically, use more, use third parties to set it up. You don't have to let the board look like a shooting gallery. Make missions that aren't just about who can kill who first. I've been playing respawning 40k for example, which is way, WAY better than just both players lining up, firing a volley, and seeing whose dice let them win. Things where your units get to do stuff rather than just getting put down and packed back up again.

Of course, not everyone might agree to those little tweaks, but that brings us back to the first way of handling things. If the people you're playing the game with aren't willing to try out little changes because it might hurt their chances of winning a dice game, then they're not the kind of people you're going to want to play with anyways.

calamarialldayerrday wrote:Okay, so the bottom line is that I need to get my Rhino constructed?

No, it's not the bottom line.

You can do things to make your list stronger, and that will help you win more games, this is true. I myself have run khorne a half dozen times to some reasonable success. You're starting to lose focus though.

Because if you make lists to start winning more, then you're making lists to start winning more. If you play the strongest khorne list you can, and you're still getting wiped off the table by gunlines, well, then why not upgrade to a nurgle list? It's more likely to help you win. Why not upgrade out of the CSM codex entirely? Why not just run a taudar gunline like everybody else?

You have to play the game for the reason you want to play the game. If you want to play khorne, then play khorne. Just don't expect it to do that well against WAAC players. Make adjustments to your list if you want, but on your own terms. It's really easy to get sucked in, and wind up being an enabler to the exact kinds of things that are giving you these problems in the first place.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
However, I'm not familiar with the story of Draigo, what do you mean?

I believe here is your answer

oh and skip from 1:50 to 3:40 if you do so wish

Play the bad guys, then console yourself with the fact that they are supposed to lose.

You have to play the game for the reason you want to play the game. If you want to play khorne, then play khorne. Just don't expect it to do that well against WAAC players. Make adjustments to your list if you want, but on your own terms. It's really easy to get sucked in, and wind up being an enabler to the exact kinds of things that are giving you these problems in the first place.

But what if you have an army you bought and you want it to be as good as the top tier armies and it just isn't even with a new codex .One does counts as or something?

You need to be playing with people who want the same thing, which I doubt you are currently doing. If you were, they'd see you removing handfuls of berserkers each turn and in the next game bring far less artillery so you can actually reach their lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:

You have to play the game for the reason you want to play the game. If you want to play khorne, then play khorne. Just don't expect it to do that well against WAAC players. Make adjustments to your list if you want, but on your own terms. It's really easy to get sucked in, and wind up being an enabler to the exact kinds of things that are giving you these problems in the first place.

But what if you have an army you bought and you want it to be as good as the top tier armies and it just isn't even with a new codex .One does counts as or something?

You sell that army and buy the top tier ones.

Or you go play a game that doesn't have this issue. IE all of them

If you can't deal with having your army removed by the bucket load, then you either need to change your army, your list, your opponent or the game.

I used to run much 'nicer' lists than I do now. There was a Defiler, possessed, regular chaos marines in it. However after losing my Defiler two games in a row without it doing anything, I had to change my tactics. Eventually I fought this Tau list and it destroyed me. It wasn't even a Tau net list, it was Tau and Daemons, no riptides stealth suits and all that. After removing 20 Khorne Berzerkers in two turns I decided that if I wished to carry on playing, I needed to try something else.

I brought in FMC and Daemon allies, something I still use now. Typhus, who I had all along, finally came out of his bo and brought zombies with him. My army isn't a netlist by any means. But I haven't had a one sided battle in a long while, I've even gone so far as destroying a DEldar army with my own, wave serpents and all.

I did this because I wanted to have fun with 40k, I've been playing it for years and despite all the complaints it is still a game I like and I enjoy the people I play with. GW sometimes decide that a certain play style is going to be utter pants for a while, so you either deal with losing continuously, or do your best to adapt.