Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well I think we're changing this from dawn of war to what we'd want to see in a warhammer 40k title.

Dawn of war has strictly been an rts with some sort of rpg elements in dawn of war 2.

So yeah we're not really talking dawn of war 3 if we're going outside of the rts genre. At that point it becomes a totally different game like 'space marine' or something.

It'd still be a fantastic game (if done right) and it'd still be 40k but it would not be 'dawn of war'.

-----------

@EmilCrane: Absolutely with the retreat system in 'dawn of war 2'. Perhaps I never got into it since it took forever till I finally played guard in the game but enemies should never retreat that quickly and if they do they should drop their weapons or at least special gear to un-burden the retreat and thus run faster. This gives a sense of loss if you do retreat since you could lose some guys or you could lose a bunch of specialized equipment from the guys that ran away which does allow you to re-group but now opponents can use this gear against you. This has happened in real battles to my knowledge.

Get rid of the nigh indestructible buildings in the first place.

Base building should either be done or it should be done the way 'star wars: empire at war' handled the main buildings. You start off with all the same types of main buildings and have about one of each. Having one building makes throwing a raid somewhere totally viable since you can take out a light factory or barracks and prevent those units from coming on for some time. If those types of units can't be re-inforced then it's a bigger problem for the enemy if a full scale attack happens right then and you can only use what you have until 30 seconds of re-building the structure.

Dawn of war 2 voice acting was a strange thing. At least my ears didn't nearly bleed from hearing all the synchronized eldar voices so I may have liked their voices more in dawn of war 2 for that reason alone. The imperial commander and inquisitor had a good voice but little else did besides merrick. The rest of the voices were superior in dawn of war 1. I wouldn't say chaos was really better or worse though I was happy we saw newer types of chaos marines. Would've been interesting to see obliterators or possessed marines again or another elite unit but it was interesting to see. Thousand sons needed a unit and I think they didn't get one. Space marines had more identity as gods of war in a sense and some more voices. Ork voices were about the same as before.

I can't help but miss the dawn of war 1 storyline for dawn of war 1 vanilla and the characters within it as well as honorable expansion characters like Gorgutz (though the ork freebooter warboss is about as good in his own right). More story on the events because of the tartarus campaign is always a good thing. We never really did resolve the fight against that greater daemon.

On the bit about the last battle of 'retribution' it almost looked like the daemon chapter master was playing 'whack a mole' with your army. In a way it also seems hilarious since his whole under section is stuck in lave making it seem that he can't really move around and you're stuck facing a guy that is basically a cripple. A crippled daemon prince sure but one that is just stuck because he has a fat *ss or because his legs won't work and he needs a 40k gothicy/chaosy wheelchair.

---------

For me the main big differences are the music in dawn of war 1 vanilla being better by a long shot than dawn of war 2. I could almost picture the scene of the fight just from listening to the music alone. That type of music has power and used in the right missions doubly so. I also feel incredibly happy for the choice of biel tan as the eldar sub-faction in that game since biel tan looked even more alien than normal. Humanoid in appearance but totally alien like some high tech aliens that are about to abduct you. Not totally what they do but it sort of worked it my eyes. Just looking at the colors schemes they instantly look like little green men. All of that detail to convey words without saying one thing. It also gives the point they're technologically advanced within the first few seconds. There are differences but the music worked and it sounded mysterious and unknown. Very perfect music. Dawn of war 2's music isn't terrible and is in fact alright. However if I chose between the music in dawn of war 2 and dawn of war 1 vanilla I'd choose dawn of war 1 vanilla's music every time without question. It was great at setting the tone.

I feel like dawn of war 2 went more for a realistic gritty approach which is where 40k has headed but I liked dawn of war 1 for the campiness. The main baddies was like watching skeletor from he-man instruct his idiot minions or any other campy cartoon like that.

In the end it's about tastes for both games.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Dawn of war has strictly been an rts with some sort of rpg elements in dawn of war 2..

Dawn of War was a Real Time Strategy game (RTS), and Dawn of War 2 was a Real Time Tactical game (RTT).

They're very closely related, but not the same, just as a Rottweiler and a Chihuahua are similar, but not the same. This has often devolved into a semantic debate that doesn't really need to be reproduced here as it's pretty off topic , but it is why the two games had such a different play style.

Nitpick: Kyras merged with the Daemon of the Maledictum in Retribution.

You kill off both of them in the game.

 Kain wrote:
Nitpick: Kyras merged with the Daemon of the Maledictum in Retribution.

You kill off both of them in the game.

Not entirely sure I remember that part.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Nitpick: Kyras merged with the Daemon of the Maledictum in Retribution.

You kill off both of them in the game.

Not entirely sure I remember that part.

Space Marine campaign; Gabriel specifically tells you that Kyras is working with the Daemon of Tartarus.

Imperial Guard campaign: Adrastia informs you that Kyras has the daemon in his head.

 EmilCrane wrote:
I'd actually prefer a low 40k setting with guardsmen, chaos cultists, orks and maybe tau slugging it out in a CoH1 style game with cover, good vehicle combat and the awesome CoH style sounds and visual effects, I guess kinda like DoW2 but without crazy heroes and insane abilities, more infantry and vehicle focused, also get rid of that god damn 100 pop cap, when I want to play IG I want to see tank and infantry formations overunning the enemy, not 2 russes and 20 guys led by a super inquisitor that can solo a space marine.

You may or may not be interested in this.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
I'd actually prefer a low 40k setting with guardsmen, chaos cultists, orks and maybe tau slugging it out in a CoH1 style game with cover, good vehicle combat and the awesome CoH style sounds and visual effects, I guess kinda like DoW2 but without crazy heroes and insane abilities, more infantry and vehicle focused, also get rid of that god damn 100 pop cap, when I want to play IG I want to see tank and infantry formations overunning the enemy, not 2 russes and 20 guys led by a super inquisitor that can solo a space marine.

You may or may not be interested in this.

Did you increase Ork Boy and Tyranid Gaunt squad sizes?

 Kain wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
I'd actually prefer a low 40k setting with guardsmen, chaos cultists, orks and maybe tau slugging it out in a CoH1 style game with cover, good vehicle combat and the awesome CoH style sounds and visual effects, I guess kinda like DoW2 but without crazy heroes and insane abilities, more infantry and vehicle focused, also get rid of that god damn 100 pop cap, when I want to play IG I want to see tank and infantry formations overunning the enemy, not 2 russes and 20 guys led by a super inquisitor that can solo a space marine.

You may or may not be interested in this.

Did you increase Ork Boy and Tyranid Gaunt squad sizes?

I have not touched them yet- they are next.

You want them bigger? Can do.

How much bigger, specifically?

(May want to take it to that thread though.)

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
I'd actually prefer a low 40k setting with guardsmen, chaos cultists, orks and maybe tau slugging it out in a CoH1 style game with cover, good vehicle combat and the awesome CoH style sounds and visual effects, I guess kinda like DoW2 but without crazy heroes and insane abilities, more infantry and vehicle focused, also get rid of that god damn 100 pop cap, when I want to play IG I want to see tank and infantry formations overunning the enemy, not 2 russes and 20 guys led by a super inquisitor that can solo a space marine.

You may or may not be interested in this.

Did you increase Ork Boy and Tyranid Gaunt squad sizes?

I have not touched them yet- they are next.

You want them bigger? Can do.

How much bigger, specifically?

(May want to take it to that thread though.)

Doubling them should be fine based on Destroyer 40k.

Kain wrote:More towards FFG [...]

Ehh ... I dunno, FFG Marines are so OTT that the makers had to invent cheats like Horde bonuses and Felling to actually challenge them.
I'd much rather stick to GW's version of the fluff.

Though ... it'd probably come down to whether the game focuses on one or more Space Marines, or has them as only one faction or type of character amongst many.
In the former, it's a lot easier to apply plot armour - see the Space Marine videogame (and I actually enjoyed that one). But once other factions have to suffer for that portrayal? Nah.

dementedwombat wrote:And there's always the fallback of a loot based Diablo style RPG centered around orks. "You can have my jaggid choppa. I just found a blue big choppa of skullbustin."

lol
I'd actually play that, it sounds like it could be hilarious.

And of course you wouldn't collect gold but teef.

Melissia wrote:Something like Shadowrun Returns would be great for a DH/RT based game I think.

Agreed. Or Necromunda.

 Lynata wrote:

Kain wrote:More towards FFG [...]

I'd much rather stick to GW's version of the fluff.

.

GW's writers are mouthbreathing idiots who can't do basic math or have any sense of scale or proportion like the rest of the company who should be sent back to pre-school.

They created some of the best concepts around but their execution is appallingly awful.

I could do better.

 EmilCrane wrote:
Base building is fun, bring it back.

Base building can be fun-- see Supreme Commander or the CnC series to a limited extent. It can also be gak-- see DoW1 and the -Craft series of games its gameplay is derived from. Just "bring back base building" is a useless suggestion because there's so many ways to do it. It's like saying "bring back aircraft"-- do you really want the hovercraft from Soulstorm, or do you want something GOOD instead?

 EmilCrane wrote:
An anti base rush weapon is good, but the ones in DoW2 just did not die

They died slowly yes, but they died. It was an intentioanl decision to make assaulting the enemy base a difficult and resource-intensive effort, and I for one applaud them for it.

It made the game focus on the victory points, which made the game better. The easier it is to attack the enemy base without repercussion, the worse off gameplay is. Just encourages rushes and general campy douchebaggery.

 EmilCrane wrote:
I also felt that, besides the space marines, the voice acting was not up to DoW1 standards

DoW1's voice acting was far inferior. It was good for its time, but Relic's gotten better in every way.

Kain wrote:GW's writers are mouthbreathing idiots who can't do basic math or have any sense of scale or proportion like the rest of the company who should be sent back to pre-school.
They created some of the best concepts around but their execution is appallingly awful.

At least they don't discriminate against just about every other faction by declaring Space Marines superheroes by virtue of broken game mechanics and arbitrary power gaps.

And in my experience, accusations of "no sense of scale or proportion" are mostly a result of the claimant simply not being used to how GW's setting operates in detail, and applying BL or FFG logic/fluff onto a version of the setting that works from a different foundation.

Besides, if we were to talk about logic and realism we'd have to dismantle just about the entire franchise. At some point, a certain degree of "suspension of disbelief" is a basic requirement to enjoy sci-fi.

Melissia wrote:It can also be gak-- see DoW1 and the -Craft series of games its gameplay is derived from.

Quite a lot of people seem to like it. Can't we just agree to disagree? I went the entire thread without calling out where I think DoW2 is gakky. So far.

I never said no one could disagree with me

On another note, here's an idea: a Dungeon Keeper style game, except with a daemonically possessed Space Hulk?