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this is a pretty funny thread. My riptides died because my opponent rolled to hit with his wraithknights and rolled a six both times causing instant death! OK, so once every 36 games you might see that happen, they are sooo broken! lol

Its always the same...

I hear Tau Players complaining about the OP Eldar
I hear Eldar Players complaining about the OP Tau

Most of them never had to fight for a victory, cause its so easy to beat other armies with eldar or tau. This leads to the conclusion that they all are tactical geniuses. So when they get stomped by the other OP army, it cant be because they have never learned to play theire army right. The one and only reason might be, that the other army is OP (while the own army isnt).

My advice: LEARN TO PLAY!

Get a mid-tier army and try to master it. All you learn will open your eyes about how powerfull tau really are and what mistakes you made, that some Space-Elf Player can stomp you that hard. Eldar arent easy to beat, but neither are tau.

"Riptides are weak"... really?... no better way to show that you havent even mastered the basics of 40k...

Lol i don't know what kind of Eldar player you play with but I have won games with 0 wave serpents...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
0 Fire Prisms and Falcons as well.

2x3 jetbikes. 1 seer , 1 titan . 1500pts. no serpents , no prisms , no falcons.

Actually...

Autarch: Warp jump Generator, Scorpion Chainsword, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun
Warlock x2
Guardian x11: Star Cannon
Guardian x10: Star Cannon
Guardian x10: Star Cannon
Crimson Hunter Exarch
Warp Spiders x10
Swooping Hawks x5
Swooping Hawk Exarch, Sunrifle
WraithKnight
Warwalkers x3: Scatter Laser, Scatter Laser, Star Engines

1500 points

MasterOfGaunts wrote:
Its always the same...

I hear Tau Players complaining about the OP Eldar
I hear Eldar Players complaining about the OP Tau

Most of them never had to fight for a victory, cause its so easy to beat other armies with eldar or tau. This leads to the conclusion that they all are tactical geniuses. So when they get stomped by the other OP army, it cant be because they have never learned to play theire army right. The one and only reason might be, that the other army is OP (while the own army isnt).

My advice: LEARN TO PLAY!

Get a mid-tier army and try to master it. All you learn will open your eyes about how powerfull tau really are and what mistakes you made, that some Space-Elf Player can stomp you that hard. Eldar arent easy to beat, but neither are tau.

"Riptides are weak"... really?... no better way to show that you havent even mastered the basics of 40k...

Read the list of armies I collect below. Dark Eldar and Tyranids are my two biggest and most played armies. Would I play those armies in a tournie? No. Because even in friendly games the dark eldar army has an annoying habit of exploding in the first turn of shooting and my tyranid army is little more than a shooting gallery where you put over a hundred models on the board and promptly have to take them off the board.

It is not "easy" to beat other armies with tau. I have had to fight to win most of the battles I've fought. Theres a few which have been outrageously one sided but mostly they require list building, unit and target priority to clear objectives; luck to resist enemy shooting etc etc.

The game does not require skill or thought to play. The game is 100% about hard counters, list building and imbalances in the codex; especially where price costs are concerned. There is no way that a raider should cost almost as much as a wave serpant considering a stray breeze causes a raider to explode whereas.


Yes riptides are piss. They do not kill things. Their only use is as an AA platform and because they look cool. Give me a squad of crisis suits any day. That is real killing power. Riptides are crap. I 've played against a tau list with two riptides. They were no more damage dealing than a single fire warrior squad. I had much more trouble from the crisis teams and, well, his fire warriors. My own tide managed to get some lucky shots and down both of them as they;d sustained heavy damage from previous phases of shooting. But, yeah they didn't really do enough. Waste of a precious elites slot. Its not like you can even spam them. There is an absolute cap of 3 in any army. They are the most over hyped unit ever and I haven't heard or more importantly seen a single indication that they're this god unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 purplkrush wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
No I've won every battle I've fought with the new Tau. Not always by a huge margin and I've came a hairs breath from losing occasionally.

But both eldar games I got ku splatted.

Ahhh, that's what I was waiting for. So you've been crushing your local group. You think you've got it down and got hammered in the pro league. Now you wanna bitch. You sounded more than just a wee bit spoiled. Become a better player and stay out of the tournies until you have your ass handed to you a few more times.

No, I beat the pro league last time and the game where I should have lost (the hardest I ever fought) and only did on technicality was in a friendly game against a necron player. I even beat the guys tau army that actually won the mini tounrmant.

To go from having close fought or one sided to being effortlessly pasted with the eldar army suffering negligible losses is pretty indicative.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Just played in a local tourney recently with 16 players and the eldar came in the top 3. My Tau army got absolutely butchered. The three main problems were:

1. Wave Serpant spam

AV12, puts out more shots than a MBT with excellant range and strength and ignore cover/shred armor and has 4+ cover itself. Somebody rolls out 6 of these then they'll take apart whole squads easily. More importantly, the high armour value makes them totally immune to the weapons of tau troops. Having played Dark Eldar and considering the huge limitations to their vehicles its just an OP unit TBH; massively under-costed. Seriously I was getting sarcastic towards the end of the last battle and asking the guy if his wave serpant ignored invulnerable saves as well. Which he actually checked as well.

2. Seer council on jetbikes

2+ re-rollable armour saves. 2+ re-rollable cover saves. Can cross the entire board in one turn. Str7 re roll wounds. 4+ inv saves. Their own psychic shooting and bike weaponry.

3. Wraithknight

50/50 on this. In one battle I killed it in a single turn of shooting from a crisis team. But in another, it used its wraithcannon to instantly kill both my Riptides before going on to single handedly butcher the rest of my army.


A big problem I had with my army was that once you have used up your heavy support and elites slots the only thing you can buy is blobs of troops. This isn't a problem if the enemy also has infantry. But against an all mech army with transports immune to everything its impossible to beat. Again, IMO eldar are supposed to be an expensive fragile glasshammer and they just aren't...

1. Markerlight is your friend. Get Tetras instead of some Pathfinders and see if those help you. They have Scouts - so you can scout them up 12" or just outflank to get those hiding Waves; Skyrays launch their missiles at BS 5, ignoring cover and line of sight per markerlight used. Of course, bringing 6 or more of those Waves are just evil... so bring even more Seekers! Other option is to DS some MP/FB Crisis behind Waves (juice AV 10 behind, no Serpent Shield!)

2. Ignores Cover and Plasma suits. DS as far as Baron as possible (if he's using him) and burn them in plasma. They'll get re-rollable 4++, but better that than 2+.

3. Kroot snipers (they're troops! Imagine how many you can bring) or seekers as well.

Seriously learn how to play in a competitive environment.

Your misslesides that you should have in your army should be pasting serpents alongside your tides that will pop them with ignores cover ordnance high strength low ap large blasts.

Hammerheads are meh compared to the rest of the heavy slots. Skyrays provide an excellent platform for protecting markerlights and dealing with high priority targets early on. Misslesides provide a stupid amount of TL mid strength firepower and can paste anywhere from medium tanks to basic infantry with relative ease and only begin to struggle vs av13+.

Riptides are great, they are able to deliver high strength low ap large blasts with the potential to ignore cover (and most of the time should be) on an extremely durable amd mobile platform. They are also capable of carrying useful psychic denial relics and also can carry a decent AA weapon that fires with good reliability thanks to another relic (I am of course talking about the ECPA and ToAM Burst tide that is often allied in). Simply because you use hyperbole to show that riptides are useless and kill themselves before doing anything doesn't mean they actually do the things you have stated.

If you don't like your FWs doing nothing to mech lists (ik shocker an anti infatry unit being helpless to mech) try taking kroot instead for the stray glances. You wont have to worry about getting shot off the board since you can simply reserve and outflank them for forward scoring later in the game and they can deal with anything but av13+.

For dealing with av13+ have a squad of melta suits that you should have taken from those farsight allies deep strike onto those tanks and kill them alongisde riptides of both varieties being able to deal with them with the high amount of rending shots and high strength ordinance. This is also another place where skyrays are your friend since av13 seems to go down to mass seeker missles but I camt say I would recommend them for av14.

Beating an eldar serpent spam list isnt all that hard to do if you have any remote idea as to what tau should be doing in the competitive scene but clearly you are stubborn and refuse to open your eyes to anything but slowly plucking wound off of WKs with hammerheads and being upset because a weapon has the potential to cause ID to your riptide that seems to be killing itself anyways because your dice only roll 1s and 2s and you can't learn how to ignore cover with your AT weapons on serpents that aparently have already killed your infantry but don't worry they weren't doing anything anyways since serpents aparently have no weaknesses or vulnerabilities and are just the worst thing ever to happen.

Look dude, most of these people have already said it, but I'll say it again.

Bad luck happens.

The Heavy Wraithcannon is only Instant Death on a 6 to wound. The fact that it happened twice in the same game is amazing, considering that the Wraithknight only has two shots per shooting phase.

You're problem is that you'r basing your opinion off of one or two games against Eldar. Any statistician would tell you that at that small of a sample you're data could be awfully skewed by outliers.

The other problem is that the tasks for your Riptides are wrong. They are supposed to be the beat-stick unit for your army while you move into proper game-winning positions while doing moderate to significant damage to the enemy's army. I run two Riptides in my list, one as an IA/Plasma for anti-teq, and the other as HBC/SMS for anti-infantry and (dare I say it), anti-tank. Both Riptides handle the midfield while the rest of my army sits back and supports the hell out of them. But the most important fact is that they need support to be effective.

This is the list I used at my LGS during their last league to great effect. I went 13-1 (my only loss was against a very exprienced Eldar player with the Dice gods in his favor, much like your situation).

HQ
Support Commander - MSSS, Stims, Iridium Armor, Drone Controller, Neuroweb System Jammer, PENChip, and CCN (if you have the points)

Ethereal

Elites -
Riptides as mentioned above, give both Intercept, and give the HBC Velocity Tracker.

Troops -
3x Firewarriors (w/ 9 per squad)
10-15 Kroot w/ sniper rounds

Fast Attack -
Pathfinders x8

Heavy Support - (This is where my list gets fun)
Railsides x3 - Shas'vre (For precision shot), Target Lock on all three, and 6 Marker Drones. Put the Support commander in front of this unit, and in a tall piece of terrain for 6 BS5 markerlights that are also twin-linked (Netting at least one to two hits on flyers). The the cover ignoring, tank/monster hunting nature of the Str 8 ap 1 shots will net a couple wounds on that Wraithknight or pop up to three Serpents that have fired their shields.

Missilesides x3 - Intercept on all three, Shas'vre, and 6 missile drones. Put the Ethereal in this unit and give him a quad gun for a lolable 40 shots, 32 of which are str 7, 28 of which are twin linked. Give this unit 2-3 markerlights for 38 WOUNDS on anything t5 or lower. Or a decent handful of wounds on that same Wraithknight. I'm sure he won't be happy to make 13 3+ armor saves. (FYI, my local meta hates this unit more than SPESS MUHREENS hate Chaos)

Skyray with D Pods

All this for 1850.

Put a Squad of firewarriors in base to base of the Aegis and GTG all game, lollable 2+ cover save. This unit will act as a counter charge bubble wrap for your Broadsides.

But the Railsides high like mentioned before, and the missilesides by the quad gun.

Let your Riptides play all day in the sun in the middle of the field and laugh as you neuter your opponents army by turn 2.

The most important aspect of Tau is what you need to exploit the most, every unit has MULTIPLE tasks that can be accomplished. The list I mentioned above is INCREDIBLY versatile to all but Land Raider Spam (My only counter could be lucky rolls on the HBC or smashing with the Riptides). And play it like the Tau Fluff, there may be times when you need to sacrifice units FOR THE GREATER GOOD! The Riptides may not win you the game by themselves, but give your HBC 6 markerlights and it'll do some serious damage.

TL/DR - Luck/Dice gods were against you in that game. Play the list again with the previous game in mind and you will play differently. You learn MORE from when you lose then from when you win.

Or you're just terribad. Your pick.

Edit- Forgot I actually fielded Pathfinders... Lol.

Wait another week or so for 7th Edition and start complaining about Ork swarms consolidating into other combats and wiping out entire back lines with Storm Boyz.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Riptides are OP. If you don't see that, then I can't help you.

They aren't. They do jack in every battle I fight. I ve seen trygons and carnifexs take apart armies, crisis suits blast apart enemy tanks and fire warriors wipe out whole squads of terminators with markerlights. The riptide is meh.

Just take something else than - what's the problem. Noone forces you to play with just riptides - you got plenty of solid options.

Yep and moaning tau looks fun Greentide player here

Don't have £200 to spend on broadsides and nor would I.

I'll give a breakdown of what happened in both games.

Game 1

Eldar get first turn

Eldar Turn 1

Webspinner blows up longstrike and a squad of pathfinders.

Seer council n Wraithknight advance within 6'' of my army

Warp spiders cut apart one squad

One wound off a tide from the knight

Lots of regular infantry n pathfinders in cover dead from wave serpants.

Tau turn 1

Marker the Wraithknight, Shadowsun and co kill it.

Marker a unit of warp spider and kill it

Seer council lose one man to one tide, 2 squads of kroot and two squads of fire warriors. Oh and an over charged gatling riptide. Lose one man to lucky a kroot shot. (he failed 2 2+ saves)

Ion hammerhead and ion tide fail to destroy webspinner

Eldar turn 2

One wave serpant kills Shadwosun and three battlesuits in one turn despite having 2+ cover and 2 shield drones.

Rest of wave serpants continue to shred my infantry to paste.

Seer council multi charge kroot squad and a hammerhead. Destroy both.

Eldar move to take objective with small squad of bikes and disembark dire avengers.

Tau turn 2

Riptides kill a unit of dire avengers and a unit of bikes on objectives.

Remaining army fire achieves very little.

Eldar and tau turn 3

He moves other dire avengers onto my objectives as the seer council kills whats left of the infantry.

Wave serpants fail to kill riptides.

My riptides fire fails to kill unit of dire avengers on objective across the board.

Riptide fails to rout unit of dire avengers on a different objective (cheap five man units BTW)

Eldar and Tau turn 4

Same thing except this seer council moved across the board in one turn to reach my riptide as it finally killed the unit of dire avengers.

Total victory for the Eldar



Second Game

Eldar get first turn

Wraithcannon instantly kills gatling riptide

Fire prism destroys hammerhead

Wave serpants knock out a drone and kill some infantry

D cannons fire as well

Tau turn 1

Shadowsun kills his farseer and a few D cannons before jumping back into cover.

Riptide and ion hammerhead try to shoot wraithknight and it loses no wounds.

Eldar turn 2

Wraithknight moves closer, doesn't kill anything this turn.

Lots of infantry lost.

Shadowsun loses a suit as more wave serpants start to surround the area

Warp spiders and jet arrive to cause more casualties among the infantry.

Tau Turn 2

One ion tide manages to blow up a wave serpant with some markerlight support.

Even with tank hunters and point blank fusion n plasma at bs5 not one tank is destroyed by shadowsun n co.

Hammerhead takes a wound off knight.

Pulse rifle fire bounces off wraithknight

Manage to knock some HP off his flier with pulse rifles

Eldar turn 3

Wave serpant spam kills shadowsun despite 2+ cover saves

Stranded guardian squad moves up to objective

Wraithknight charges and kills fire warrior squad

Warp spiders and wave serpants shred more infantry

Tau Turn 3

I blow up his flier

Fail to wound wraithknight or blow up a wave serpant with head or tide.

Kroot squad kills guardian squad with rapid fire guns. (WTF not)

Eldar turn 4

Wraithcannon kills second riptide (not sure if this happened earlier actually. I think the Knight might have charged those fire warriors in the second turn and blown this up in the third)

Vyper, spiders, fire prism and serpants shred forward infantry leaving only one pathfinder squad and a hammerhead.

Tau turn 4

Ping

Eldar turn 5

Wraithknight shoots and destroys hammerhead

Rest of eldar army destroys remaining pathfinders.


Incredibly one sided victory for the eldar with them suffering negligible losses

I find the hammer of wrath USR is great vs op army builds I always keep one under my gaming table so I can smite armies irl if needed. It only takes a couple of hits of good hammer of wrath hits to kill a wave serpent.

In all seriousness how does this even happen, ''One wave serpant kills Shadwosun and three battlesuits in one turn despite having 2+ cover and 2 shield drones.''
I guess you cant factor for luck, seems there was quite a few bad luck moments during those games.

''Seer council multi charge kroot squad and a hammerhead. Destroy both.''
Also I thought the charge rules prohibit purposeful multi charge?

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
I find the hammer of wrath USR is great vs op army builds I always keep one under my gaming table so I can smite armies irl if needed. It only takes a couple of hits of good hammer of wrath hits to kill a wave serpent.

In all seriousness how does this even happen, ''One wave serpant kills Shadwosun and three battlesuits in one turn despite having 2+ cover and 2 shield drones.''
I guess you cant factor for luck, seems there was quite a few bad luck moments during those games.

''Seer council multi charge kroot squad and a hammerhead. Destroy both.''
Also I thought the charge rules prohibit purposeful multi charge?

Multicharge is permitted.

Ignores Cover probably helped kill SS's squad.

Still - D6+1 are ignores cover, and if youre tl'ing them you dont get much other shooting. that shouldnt take out that many wounds (even with the ID on shadowsun)

Riptides are terrible has to be one of the funniest concepts I've seen in a while. Really, truly funny that this is a serious statement from someone.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Still - D6+1 are ignores cover, and if youre tl'ing them you dont get much other shooting. that shouldnt take out that many wounds (even with the ID on shadowsun)

Riptides are terrible has to be one of the funniest concepts I've seen in a while. Really, truly funny that this is a serious statement from someone.

The monofilamant weapon uses a models initiative instead of its toughness to determine instant death. So the shield and shuriken cannons instant killed the suits. Might have been something else, think he said it added +1 str to the shield attack so that it was str8. But yeah, one turn of shooting from a single wave serpant. Regardless, some weird rule meant the suits were instant deathed by the wave serpants weapons and ignored cover.


Actually he wasn't able to use the neutralize cover power as he was too busy buffing the seer council.


The riptides lost me both those battles and were a waste of points. They were easily the weakest link in the army and killed the least number of units.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Still - D6+1 are ignores cover, and if youre tl'ing them you dont get much other shooting. that shouldnt take out that many wounds (even with the ID on shadowsun)

Riptides are terrible has to be one of the funniest concepts I've seen in a while. Really, truly funny that this is a serious statement from someone.

The monofilamant weapon uses a models initiative instead of its toughness to determine instant death. So the shield and shuriken cannons instant killed the suits. Might have been something else, think he said it added +1 str to the shield attack so that it was str8. But yeah, one turn of shooting from a single wave serpant. Regardless, some weird rule meant the suits were instant deathed by the wave serpants weapons and ignored cover.


Actually he wasn't able to use the neutralize cover power as he was too busy buffing the seer council.


The riptides lost me both those battles and were a waste of points. They were easily the weakest link in the army and killed the least number of units.

...That is BS. You can't add +1 str to the shield.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Still - D6+1 are ignores cover, and if youre tl'ing them you dont get much other shooting. that shouldnt take out that many wounds (even with the ID on shadowsun)

Riptides are terrible has to be one of the funniest concepts I've seen in a while. Really, truly funny that this is a serious statement from someone.

The monofilamant weapon uses a models initiative instead of its toughness to determine instant death. So the shield and shuriken cannons instant killed the suits. Might have been something else, think he said it added +1 str to the shield attack so that it was str8. But yeah, one turn of shooting from a single wave serpant. Regardless, some weird rule meant the suits were instant deathed by the wave serpants weapons and ignored cover.


Actually he wasn't able to use the neutralize cover power as he was too busy buffing the seer council.


The riptides lost me both those battles and were a waste of points. They were easily the weakest link in the army and killed the least number of units.

huh? Monofilament, a rule which is NOT part of the Energy Shield, increases S by 1 if you are I3 or below. It does not use your init to determine instant death. Well, not any version that I know of. There is no way that you can increase the S7 of the shield to S8.

Sounds like youre complaining about someone cheating and beating you because of it.

It's funny this is the second thread you have created where you are extremely angry and have no clue what you're talking about.

I think the first thing you can do to improve your games against eldar would be to have a basic understanding of their rules.

Trystis wrote:
It's funny this is the second thread you have created where you are extremely angry and have no clue what you're talking about.

I think the first thing you can do to improve your games against eldar would be to have a basic understanding of their rules.

I am in a much better position to talk about how my games went than you. Riptides have never performed effectively for me no matter how many markerlights you chuck at them. They do not even come close to the effectiveness of a squad of crisis suits in lethality. In fact I've won quite a lot of games because the enemy player wastes whole units worth of shooting on them instead of my tanks and infantry; which they could have easily shredded. But no dem riptides is so OP. The first eldar player had it absolutely right. Ignore them, they're fething useless; kill the rest of the army.

I think it was an honest mistake on the eldar players part with the ID but I can only trust what the player tells me.


Also, WTF should I be required to spend £30 on another army codex just so I can look up its rules to have some inkling about the current meta? I kind of rely on the other player knowing his own armies rules; not the other way around...


If this is about the book thread, Path of the Archon was a terrible book with a hugely disappointing ending and one that has a stupid plot armor harlequin as the main character. If the author wants to write a book about the harlequin then he can do it and save me wasting money on a book which was mis sold as a dark eldar novel. It is exactly the same thing they did with "fire caste" that was really just a guard/chaos novel.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Riptides are OP. If you don't see that, then I can't help you.

They aren't. They do jack in every battle I fight. I ve seen trygons and carnifexs take apart armies, crisis suits blast apart enemy tanks and fire warriors wipe out whole squads of terminators with markerlights. The riptide is meh.

Hello there anecdote.

Every time my Tyrannofexes look at a Riptide they cry themselves to sleep. My Trygons look upon Wraithknights with stark envy, and with Carnifexes you either go Dakkafexes or (hideously expensive) pimped out Wrecker nodes or go home because the other Carnifex options are so underwhelmingly meh. Tyranid monstrous creatures have long been overshadowed by the considerably more ridiculous MCs other armies are fielding, starting with the Dreadknight's "S10 AP2 instant death at initiative on a well armored and ridiculously fast platform, also incinerators" shenanigans, to the Chaos Daemon's "you know how if a Hive Tyrant is really lucky it can get good psychic powers? Well all our MCs that aren't khornate can do that, and they also fly, and have stupid good relics and rollable buffs", to the Tau's "You know how the T-fex is really durable but doesn't have enough dakka to be of much concern and can't escape assaults it's weedy ass is going to be tarpitted in all game long at best? Well this here has none of those problems" Riptide, and ending with a glaive wraithknight having a heirodule level statline for half the price.

And all those weapons everyone is taking meant to deal with those monstrous creatures? Grav guns, plasma spam, high-mid strength shot spam, poison, instant death, and so on? They all butcher nidzilla units.

There was once a time when a Tyranid Monstrous creature was one of the scariest things you'd see on a field. A hive tyrant carrying a solid set of mutations, powerful melee weapons, a hardy set of tyrant guard, and a good choice of Biomorphs, this was just about the most devastating thing you'd see in assault and with armored shell and the +1 toughness mutation it could soak up fire like a champ.

Well now mutations and armored shell are gone and a pimp my melee rant would now run smack dab into a space marine smash bros unit (codex and clan raukaan versions of the space marine beatstick chaptermaster) after sucking on grav guns and then have anything left standing get it's face smashed in by thunder hammers. And now anyone with a clue keeps their Tyrants in the air.

An army that is supposed to be perhaps the premier assault army can't even match the Mario faction of the game in beatsticking, and our best deathstar (Swarmstar) is long dead and buried to add insult to injury.

What the feth?

With the exception of the Tyrannofex or a Ymgarl unit (and even then only every other turn) TMCs are krak missile bait if they aren't in the air. What's more insulting is that the Chaos Daemons MCs, Wraithknight, and Dreadknight can all be extremely lethal at both range and assault, while with the exception of the Carnifex (in numbers) and Tyrant, a Tyranid MC with a large gun is going to at best; be stuck in an assault all game long or at worst get slaughtered, while melee TMCs have at best; cute little shooting attacks that are mostly just annoying (or confusingly pointless like the Haruspex's shooting).

The Riptide's strength is that it is a god damn tank. Stock with TEQ saves, five wounds, and toughness six, all while being capable of easily avoiding assaults it doesn't want to be in or increase it's saves to hammernator equivalent levels. Already the closest a Tyranid could get to this would be a Tyrannofex in cover near a venomthrope with someone putting onslaught on it. Then the Riptide can buy FNP for itself to be even more durable; which the Tfex would need someone with catalyst to match.

The riptide has it's choice between a gun that can unleash a massive amount of rending shots (albeit one that gets a hilarious amount of gets hot rolls without twin linkage or preferred enemy) that with Velocity tracker can shred fliers or show the greater good's displeasure with a vehicle. And of course, the Ion accelerator. Extremely long ranged, capable of instant deathing T4 units and ignoring 2+ armor saves, and has a large blast off the bat. Okay sure, the Medusa also had a long ranged very high strength AP2 pie-plate but no one complained about that (it was on a much more fragile and less mobile platform though) for cheaper in a more spammable format.

What really makes the Riptide shine is when you support it. Two markerlights or a buffmander later and that gun no longer cares about cover. Three markerlights later and it's now BS5. One buffmander or farseer later and now it's also twinlinked so get's hot isn't going to be a problem. Select a group of scoring models; like some MEQs, Termies, Tyranid warriors, or anyone who hoped that cover would save them. They're no longer a factor. Horde armies will have to disperse if they don't want to die in droves, and thanks to the current wound allocation rules, dispersing means that you're now much more prone to failing a charge if overwatch eats your units. Guess who has the best overwatch in the game?

With interceptor, the Riptide also invalidates deep-strikers who aren't T5 and multiwound. Chaos Termicide or Sternguard suicide squds? How cute, *zap*. Storm troopers? *Bam*.

If you're running a mech list, if your transport has been popped, you're bunched up now. Enjoy a charged particle ladened death.

Can my Tyrannofex do anything remotely similar?

Man I wish. The best he can do is serve as a slower, much more expensive, less spammable, albeit more durable and marginally less screwed in assault Hellhound.

#FairAndBalanced.

Man, what do you want? To kill op serpents you need op broadsides. /thread

Use crysis suits with missiles. Ignore cover and you're glancing out a serpent per turn. Tau are one of a few armies that don't have problems with wave serpents and can deal with eldar in general.

total war - no, when given a set of rules that seems...suspect, ask to see the codex. Something like "oh and it Ids based on init" should probably give yo a clue, especially if you are a tournament gamer. Hell, 10 seconds research online gives you the monofilament rules.....

Rereading this thread I see that the reason you're always losing is because your foes have realized you're slow to call out cheating and are thus swindling you by outright lying about their army's capabilities.

Resolve this first before consulting us for tactics.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
total war - no, when given a set of rules that seems...suspect, ask to see the codex. Something like "oh and it Ids based on init" should probably give yo a clue, especially if you are a tournament gamer. Hell, 10 seconds research online gives you the monofilament rules.....

The tournie organiser came around and questioned it later on. But by that point an entire turn had passed and reversing it wasn't going to work. So we just let the event stand and got on with the game.



Well, normally I would question things like re-rollable 2+ armour and cover saves. ID on initiative is hardly a spectacular rule compared to that so I didn't bother questioning it too much.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Trystis wrote:
It's funny this is the second thread you have created where you are extremely angry and have no clue what you're talking about.

I think the first thing you can do to improve your games against eldar would be to have a basic understanding of their rules.

I am in a much better position to talk about how my games went than you. Riptides have never performed effectively for me no matter how many markerlights you chuck at them. They do not even come close to the effectiveness of a squad of crisis suits in lethality. In fact I've won quite a lot of games because the enemy player wastes whole units worth of shooting on them instead of my tanks and infantry; which they could have easily shredded. But no dem riptides is so OP. The first eldar player had it absolutely right. Ignore them, they're fething useless; kill the rest of the army.

I think it was an honest mistake on the eldar players part with the ID but I can only trust what the player tells me.


Also, WTF should I be required to spend £30 on another army codex just so I can look up its rules to have some inkling about the current meta? I kind of rely on the other player knowing his own armies rules; not the other way around...


If this is about the book thread, Path of the Archon was a terrible book with a hugely disappointing ending and one that has a stupid plot armor harlequin as the main character. If the author wants to write a book about the harlequin then he can do it and save me wasting money on a book which was mis sold as a dark eldar novel. It is exactly the same thing they did with "fire caste" that was really just a guard/chaos novel.

I made no comment on how your games went, just that you don't have a good understanding of the rules. if you want to win at tournaments then you are going to need to understand your opponents rules, that is really not optional because you need to know what they are capable of in order to make educated decisions on strategy. If you don't know what your opponent can do then you can't use your units effectively. You can generally learn them with out having to buy the codex, or even pirating it. There are endless guides and discussions about every army that go over these things.

I only play dark eldar so I don't understand the terrible burden it is to have to use a unit like the Riptide that the entire warhammer community thinks is OP, but apparently only functions as a paperweight to hold down an army list. I would stop arguing and try to listen to the people that you asked advice of.

I could care less if you disliked a book I thought was mediocre. I just pointed out that you had no clue what you were talking about. Before you complain about something you should actually know about it.

Serpent Shield doesnt have the monofillament rule... Sounds like someone cheated you badly, especially if they said it uses your initiative when calculating ID or not. The only weapon I could see that on is the nightspinner hitting your broadsides. It has STR 7 normally and if you are initiative 3 or lower it becomes STR 8. With a toughness 4 suit then it would be ID due to str 2x greater then toughness. Nothing you can do about that one and it is a viable strategy (seen it used against wraithstar before).

Total war - then the TO should have stepped in. THat was clear cheating. You can penalise points, call it a draw at best, etc. However given the prevalence of serpents, and the simplicity of their rules, asking to see them would be good. That many special rules (monofilament, ID on I, etc) should ring a bell for one weapon.

@Trystis

Okay. Use your eyes.

Look at my profile.

Now glance down and see the list of armies with the points attached to it.

Note that Tau are not even largest army I own and nor are they most played.

Riptides are not good. If you said I could pay the points and put them in my dark eldar or nid lists then I would say no; because it offers nothing beyond being tough to kill (assuming no ID shinanigans)

 Xerics wrote:
Actually...

Autarch: Warp jump Generator, Scorpion Chainsword, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun
Warlock x2
Guardian x11: Star Cannon
Guardian x10: Star Cannon
Guardian x10: Star Cannon
Crimson Hunter Exarch
Warp Spiders x10
Swooping Hawks x5
Swooping Hawk Exarch, Sunrifle
WraithKnight
Warwalkers x3: Scatter Laser, Scatter Laser, Star Engines

1500 points

No reason to ever have swooping hawks unless its a 6 man squad.