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nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yonan - so this is a "new" thing then? Nope, no, its quite an old thing, as the prior collectors editions are proof of. So no "if it works" - it works. yet this "sky is falling" slippery slope argument hasnt exactly held up to much scrutiny.

Day 1 DLC means you have an incomplete game by design. Oranges to the ME Bowl of Petunias. If this LE got me special rules, or armies, that noone else that bought the normal version could get hold of, then your absurd comparison, that is insulting and baseless, may have some merit. it doesnt,.

Please learn to read. I said "supporing bad business practices such as day 1 DLC only encourages it further". At no time did I suggest this ridiculously overpriced CE was similar to day 1 DLC in anything other than it being a rewarded bad business practice. However, the situation with dataslates which seems to have worked well for GW is very much analogous to DLC where rules were intentionally cut from the codices.

Yes you're right, this isn't new - there were old collectors editions. You'll also note that since they sold well, *this* edition is even more extremely priced. Since this one is selling well, the next one will cost substantially more again - indeed, a very slippery slope. If they weren't selling well - such as if gamers had some self control and realised the power they had - they would be more reasonably priced. But again, as with PC Gamers such as the "Boycott Call of Duty" steam group where a large number of people in the group bought it day 1 anyway... yeah. Gamers.

 Skinnereal wrote:
I'm assuming that 7th is what 6th should have been and it was 6th that was rushed out, not this one.

Recall how close to the end of the financial year this is. That's not a coincidence.

For that Price I could save more than two hundred dollars and get more Orks when the codex comes out.

 Yonan wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
I'm assuming that 7th is what 6th should have been and it was 6th that was rushed out, not this one.

Recall how close to the end of the financial year this is. That's not a coincidence.

I should have said 6th was rushed out before the rules were finished, and 7th is being pushed out for other reasons.

Ah, so then your assumption is that it IS a bad business practice, without actually offering anything to back that assertion up. Gotcha, I assumed you were making a genuine point, rather than yet another "this is overpriced and therefore bad" bad analogy to Day 1 DLC, which IS a bad practice for consumers (but, given real world results, rather good for businesses it seems, given their profits. Long term? No idea)

Why is it a bad business practice to have an expensive LE? I have pointed out all the ways it doesnt impact, one jot, on the "normal" gamer, yet havent had anything back but "but, *I* dont think it is good value so it shouldnt exist" style non-arguments. Youre making an attempted slippery slope argument, but the point is that the slope is entirely optional for you - you instead have a nice, separate, mostly level path you can follow.

It is also pure capitalism - same as with the likely wave of releases for the rulebook at all (full version -> boxed set more convenient size -> separate convenient size / ibook version) being as close to accepted good business practice as youre likely to find - hell, separating out the books could hurt these later models as the more convenient rule book is now not far off the A5 version in terms of portability. Oh wait, its not allowed to say GW did something vaguely good for once, instead people get to moan that they cant just buy just the rules NOW, because after all it is free to produce, deliver and stock 3 more SKUs.....sigh.

"Reasonably priced" is entirely subjective. the problem for YOU is you dont think it is reasonably priced. For a fair few people they did not make the same assesment. Hell, thart number may not be high enoughfor GW, and they will reevaluate it for WHFB / 8th edition - but to say it is objectively wrong is about as conceited a view point as it is possible to get.

I love the rancour a company releasing a non-required product can receive from those who dont like its value. Its about as convincing a set of arguments as those who dont understand why people buy expensive cars, or iPads vs cheaper tablets, etc.

Oh, and as for the power argument - you realise how much of a minority of the gaming community is Dakka et al, yes? Your actual power is far, far lower than you vain gloriously assume.

Just because you can't grasp the point other people are making does not mean they are not making valid points.

This thread makes me sad because I know now why GW will never turn it around. There will always be people who buy any piece of crap they put out at any price.

A new version of this thread will pop up in 2 years when they publish a collector's edition of 8th rules that comes with 4 dice, a bag of broken glass, and a turd sandwich and charge $600 for it. Somebody look me up then so I can see who's still adamantly defending their purchase.

lord_blackfang wrote:Just because you can't grasp the point other people are making does not mean they are not making valid points.

Helpful comment. Instead you could have explained their points, as clearly I am too stupid to understand them.

so far the points are...this could negatively affect "X" by rewarding GW, without actually being able to say what "X" is in any meaningful sense. Or that it isnt "worth it", despite not being able to form a cogent argument as to why that should matter to them, given theyre not buying it. Etc.

So please, explain it more so my poor brain can understand the arguments, as so far that is all that has been said. Just more insultingly and much, much more long winded.

Oh, and no response to the fact that this cant be used for slippery slope as it is optional. I even pointed out where it would be unacceptable - say LE owners get to reroll one dice per game, thart sort of thing (SJ Games did this for Munchkin, btw - lots of addons you can buy to enhance your game over other people, whcih is totally in the spirit of munchkin) - but this, in no way, impacts on YOUR ability to play 7th edition.

Not.
One.
Jot.

slowthar wrote:This thread makes me sad because I know now why GW will never turn it around. There will always be people who buy any piece of crap they put out at any price.

A new version of this thread will pop up in 2 years when they publish a collector's edition of 8th rules that comes with 4 dice, a bag of broken glass, and a turd sandwich and charge $600 for it. Somebody look me up then so I can see who's still adamantly defending their purchase.

Cool story. Had enough of your slippery slope fallacy yet?

If people want it, that's certainly their business.

The Basic Rule Book is fine for me.

Let's calm down a bit please folks.

KTG17 wrote:
I'm not. Jesus who would buy a $340 ruleset that will probably be considered broken in 6 months, and then worthless when 8th Edition comes out in 2 years.

I hate to be cynical, but what the hell. I dont know who I am annoyed with more, GW for pulling this crap, or the people who actually buy these and just encourage GW to keep doing it.

Understand that if these editions lasted like 5-6 years, I could say, sure, especially it its popular. But looking at GW's track record of late, just seems pointless spending money like this unless you have so much money that it doesnt seem like it.

It must be nice for you, living in your self-absorbed little world, getting all upset about people doing things that affect you in no way what so ever. You can buy the new book for $85, why do you care if someone else chooses to pay more for a Limited Edition set? Since no one is forcing you to buy the LE book, and there is no in-game advantage by having it, why do you care?

Is it just that you are so selfish it bothers you when someone else has something nicer that you, even when you don't want it, as you claim? If GW published an Ultra Limited Edition, leather binding, color, autographed pictures of all the staff, gold accented text, and charged a $1000 for it, I wouldn't buy it. But I wouldn't care about those who did, in fact I would hope that they would be happy with their purchase. Why does it bother you so much?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
If people want it, that's certainly their business.

The Basic Rule Book is fine for me.

Exactly. I have never felt the need for any of the LE books, but they are fine for the people who do want them. Although, when the new Grey Knight book comes out, I will probably buy the LE edition.

I bought the Munitorium because I thought the tokens were nice, the map looked amazing, a smaller rulebook was a plus and I prefer the cover art over the standard edition.

I don't really care if they release a new version in 2 years, or 1 year, or next week, I'll enjoy it for the time it's useful and then bin everything but the map and tokens when they release 8th Edition.

I believe the 5th edition rule book was $50. The 6th edition book was $75. Now the new 7th edition is $85. When 8th edition comes out, next year or five years from now, it will most likely be $95-$100.

The existence or lack of existence of an LE Edition will not change this. The price of the LE Edition will not change this. The prices of the LE Editions of any of the books only affects those who are willing to buy the more expensive editions to begin with. The fact that the current LE is $340 and the next LE might be $400 does not change the fact that the next rule book will be around $100.

I do really like those objective coins....

But of course, I have a million other thing lying around that are just as good....

KTG17 wrote:


How the hell do you make an assumption that I am selfish? I just fail to understand why anyone would want this. And that was before I heard that the box is only carboard and not something more substantial. Now I am even more clueless.

I don't know, maybe it's was the harsh, judgmental tone you took over people doing something that you did not agree with, even though it affects you in no way. Like you, I do not see the value in spending $340 on the LE set. Unlike you I have no animosity towards those who do. Or maybe it's the fact that I don't feel the need to "understand" how someone else enjoys the hobby in order to accept the fact that they enjoy it. You don't want to buy it, good for you. Someone else does, good for them. Perhaps you are a Socialist? You feel that the way you enjoy the hobby is the way everyone else should enjoy it too?

I spent $29,000 on my Toyota. If I had purchased all of the upgrades and options it could have been closer to $45,000. I did not go on the internet and rant about how my Toyota was good enough for me and should have been good enough for everyone else, and that those who were willing to pay more to get options I didn't want, were ruining it for everyone else.

 slowthar wrote:
This thread makes me sad because I know now why GW will never turn it around. There will always be people who buy any piece of crap they put out at any price.

A new version of this thread will pop up in 2 years when they publish a collector's edition of 8th rules that comes with 4 dice, a bag of broken glass, and a turd sandwich and charge $600 for it. Somebody look me up then so I can see who's still adamantly defending their purchase.

My thoughts. There is no reason I can fathom to make up for the 340(!?!?!?!?) dollars.

text removed.

Reds8n

I've pre-ordered the munitorium edition. I like limited editions -- the Astra Militarium book is really sweet. I also liked that it comes with the A5 size rules book, the objective coins, and other neat little gimmies.

Mostly I bought it so I don't have to wait for the smaller sized rulebook. Smaller rulebooks are easier to place on the table during a game.

 reds8n wrote:
Let's calm down a bit please folks.

APPARENTLY THIS NEEDS TO BE REPEATED?

Seriously - RULE #1 IS NOT OPTIONAL HERE!

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
I spent $29,000 on my Toyota. If I had purchased all of the upgrades and options it could have been closer to $45,000. I did not go on the internet and rant about how my Toyota was good enough for me and should have been good enough for everyone else, and that those who were willing to pay more to get options I didn't want, were ruining it for everyone else.

Well, yeah, but if you were a member of a Toyota forum, and somebody posted a topic, "Hey so who's buying the $45,000 version of this Toyota?" you might post, no?

Honestly, I can't believe the amount of venom in this thread. It's 4 pages long and has 2 mod warnings already. It's like we're talking about politics or something.

You'd also be paying for added features and benefits.

Just for the sake of reality, you are basically paying ferrari prices for a toyota camry with nicer paint.

$255 dollars for 6 coins, a cardboard box, and alternative book covers with identical content and utility.

Is there a polite way for me to point out how foolish that is?

Yes, except you missed the other bits you get in the set. Oops

Lopstah - those echo the reasons I bought it. But hey, we're responsible for the downfall of the hobby as we know it...

I wonder if GW plc record the details of the people who buy these type of limited edition products from them?

This list of people with more cash that they know what to do with,and such low expectations.
Must be worth a fortune to certain marketing companies...

Gw plc 'These people pay £150 for less than £40* of extra content!'
(*That is the cost of the additional materials /printing/ manufacturing of the 40k ME ,according to my source at Nottingham.)

Other companies 'Wow they ARE JUST the sort of people we want to sell to....'

VanHallan wrote:
You'd also be paying for added features and benefits.

Just for the sake of reality, you are basically paying ferrari prices for a toyota camry with nicer paint.

$255 dollars for 6 coins, a cardboard box, and alternative book covers with identical content and utility.

Is there a polite way for me to point out how foolish that is?

The logic you need to understand here is the CE is not foolish at all. GW did a great job in selling 2000 copies of CE with (likely) 2000 customers buying it. Its a home run from a business standpoint.

You need to understand the marketing concept of a limited edition, these were never meant to be value to customers. LE are meant to drum up hype and let customers entitle to a sense of uniqueness upon purchase. Value, duraibility, content doesn't matter at all.

Paying Ferrari prices for a Toyota Camry with nicer paint is EXACTLY what 'some' people want. If you can't see the money making potential in this I'm sorry for you.

Is it foolish? The question doesn't even matter if the 2000 customer doesn't think so.

I also think people are taking you negatively because you are calling people in this forum who buy stuff they love and can afford foolish.