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 Arbiter wrote:
Well, skyfire works on him, and for CC hope for prescience or your screwed.

Does it?

I'm suggesting having him just glide everywhere rather than swoop, and have Fatewaver keep the grimoire on him and feed him power dice to ensure nearly garaunteed success for his invisibility casting.

It's screamer star level durable.

Though not as bad. Hes still just 1 model and not 6! If your lucky enough you can hope to ID him, or if he doesn't get invisibility off you can focus fire on him. With screamer star its much, much harder.

 Arbiter wrote:
Though not as bad. Hes still just 1 model and not 6! If your lucky enough you can hope to ID him, or if he doesn't get invisibility off you can focus fire on him. With screamer star its much, much harder.

Be'Lakor has EW.

And he can use psychic shriek/terrify and is quite hurty in melee.

In addition, the Screamer star needs much more dice rolls to pull off.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Thariinye wrote:
It basically seems like you just need to throw all your Dispel/DtW dice at Invis whenever someone (particularly Be'lakor) tries to cast it, and hope for enough sixes. You don't perils on DtW, so you could use your whole pool if you want. Grey Knights should, in theory, be able to shut down enemy psychic phases just by virtue of having 6+ dice thrown at every important enemy power.

You have to dispel all the Warp Charge points earned on the psychic test, so... if the enemy has something like 4+ Warp Charge points on the test then it will be one hell of a job to dispel the power even with 20+ dispel dices.

Pretty sure you only need to dispel enough so that there are not enough warp charge left to cast the power, so a level 3 power that got 4 cast dice across only needs 2 dispells to fail.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Thariinye wrote:
It basically seems like you just need to throw all your Dispel/DtW dice at Invis whenever someone (particularly Be'lakor) tries to cast it, and hope for enough sixes. You don't perils on DtW, so you could use your whole pool if you want. Grey Knights should, in theory, be able to shut down enemy psychic phases just by virtue of having 6+ dice thrown at every important enemy power.

You have to dispel all the Warp Charge points earned on the psychic test, so... if the enemy has something like 4+ Warp Charge points on the test then it will be one hell of a job to dispel the power even with 20+ dispel dices.

Pretty sure you only need to dispel enough so that there are not enough warp charge left to cast the power, so a level 3 power that got 4 cast dice across only needs 2 dispells to fail.

Nope. You have to get a six for each successful warp charge point.

So, if I get 4 successes for casting Invisibility, you need to roll at least 4 sixes.

Are you SURE about that? from my understanding every dispel takes away a single warp charge, and if you don't have enough after the dispels, the spell fails.

Page 26. Clear as day.

So, 12 Heralds, say. Lvl. 3. We'll ignore the rest of the army for now. Maybe take an inquisitor with some servo skulls to make sure people don't scout too close.

6, on average, will get Sacrifice, 6 will get possession, 6 will get Cursed Earth. Keep heralds with Sacrifice in separate units, as it's the one you'll want to spam most.

Cast Cursed earth at least once, using single dice (so taking 2 dice on average).

Cast Sacrifice (have a mook unit) 6 times on single dice - average 3 go off, 2 if your opponent rolls a 6. If your opponent might block these, you can roll them last, after he's (hopefully) expended his DtW dice. So you now have 15 Heralds.

Leaves you with 28+d6 dice to cast summoning or possession with. Now, summon a unit using ~7 dice, for a 77% chance of casting, meaning ~3 units or possessions, 33% chance of perils means 1-2 perils in a turn. You could summon primarily with heralds which have both summon AND possession, so that if you perils and lose a wound while summoning, you simply cast Possession immediately after, as a wound is lost anyway.

So the question is whether 3 units/greater demons and 3 heralds a turn is more than an average army could kill a turn, assuming a 3+ invulnerable save (rerolling 1s) for most of them. Plus, you do have some flexibility in how you do things, you don't just have to keep summoning Heralds/horrors - and even your new heralds don't have to take possession powers - you could take divination to buff and then have others spam witchfires, summon faster beasts/screamers to contest objectives, and so on. It probably would fail just because you couldn't summon fast enough to get out and contest/threaten opponents, but it would be interesting to see in action none the less.

I wonder if units of Pink Horrors casting Possession get removed entirely, or just one...

What I thought looked more fun was 10 TH/SS terminators and one termi Libby with SS, roll for sanctuary, and give them all the 2++. Seems more intimidating.

 stompygitz wrote:
What I thought looked more fun was 10 TH/SS terminators and one termi Libby with SS, roll for sanctuary, and give them all the 2++. Seems more intimidating.

And D weapons don't have much chance against them either, Titanhammers are making a comeback!!!

 ace101 wrote:

 stompygitz wrote:
What I thought looked more fun was 10 TH/SS terminators and one termi Libby with SS, roll for sanctuary, and give them all the 2++. Seems more intimidating.

And D weapons don't have much chance against them either, Titanhammers are making a comeback!!!

Finally I have a reason to truly use them! Huzzah!

 Iyandenseer wrote:
With the new unbound selection you could take a great deal more chaos sorcerors. Attatch as many as you like to a blob squad of either thousand sons or Tzeentch marines. For extra flavor run Ahriman so you can infiltrate the whole group onto the pad midfield for central supremacy. Suddenly you can get multiple copies of any power you want. Let the big guys roll biomancy, they deserve it. I'm thinking Chaos Sorcerors for Sanctic and Tzeentch Heralds for Malific.

...

So that's where the Daemon princes and Greater Daemons that you spawn come in, especially if you throw some cultists up there as sacrificial lambs. Imagine a large group of Flying Monstrous Creatures Spawning from the pad and intercepting anything that tries to get close enough.

Now granted, you could just spam as many mastery levels as possible and summon more Daemons, but the idea of a sanctified summoning circle for a cult not only seems to go along fluffily with spell casting in the real world, but also creates one tough nut to crack right in the center of the table.

In light of how much stupid we're about to see, probably not the end of the world... But far greater than any list I've ever seen, and the fact that I came up with this day one kind of worries me about how much the power level might have just escalated.

This actually sounds like a really cool scenario to me.

Comically enough by far the strongest superheavy in 7th edition is also a Daemon. Aetaos'rau'keres is invincible.

Now the question is, how fast can all the Tau and Eldar players sell their armies and buy Daemon armies?

 Therion wrote:
Comically enough by far the strongest superheavy in 7th edition is also a Daemon. Aetaos'rau'keres is invincible.

Now the question is, how fast can all the Tau and Eldar players sell their armies and buy Daemon armies?

Why would you sell your armies for daemons? Just ally daemons instead of trading in, better yet have your LGS pool their cash and make a huge daemon collective army because everyone is going to use it.

I dont think you realize how hard it is to actually get those powers off,

even if you spend 6 warp charges, thats only a 65% chance to get off a lvl 3 spell, and a 26% chance to perils (actually, its quite a lot higher, since eveyrone but GK will perils on ANY DOUBLES for santic, daemons only ones who dont perils on 2x for malefic)

even if you are getting of the lvl 2/3 powers, you are only going to get one off, max two.

blow up everything that doesnt have the 2++ rerol, and watch them pop their own skulls...

That's why you ally daemons... they don't get the double peril penalty. It's also not hard to succeed in the check because you don't CARE about perils (the 1 in 36 chance that you even get them) because Pink Horrors can summon all the creatures they want and as a Brotherhood of Sorcerers unit, a random model suffers the perils rather than the entire unit. Deny the Witch is also not an issue because you need to roll as many 6s as they rolled successes. You can easily get off 1 or 2 of these per turn, more if you have an all psyker army, and that's an extra 100 pts of figures in your pocket each time.

Just an idea to counter all those deamon spamming armies (bad list i know, just fun)

Take Coteaz
add 105 units of 2 henchmen and 1 psyker

You now have 107+D6 dices for dispell (or throwing spells^^)

 welshhoppo wrote:
I believe you can only ever 6 dice it.

nope, throw as many dice as you want at it.

perils is a beeotch though past 5 dice...

esp for "buff" type powers, the threat of the enemy just laughing at you wasting all this effor to buff one or two units, and just targetitng unbuffed stuff until your casters peril to death, is very real.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Puscifer wrote:
How have ML1 Prescience Psykers been nerfed?

What am I missing here?

aside from them being ML 2 now, each Mastery level being harder to cast then before?

sleekid wrote:
Just an idea to counter all those deamon spamming armies (bad list i know, just fun)

Take Coteaz
add 105 units of 2 henchmen and 1 psyker

You now have 107+D6 dices for dispell (or throwing spells^^)

You'd have to be unbound any order to do that. I think.

sleekid wrote:
Just an idea to counter all those deamon spamming armies (bad list i know, just fun)

Take Coteaz
add 105 units of 2 henchmen and 1 psyker

You now have 107+D6 dices for dispell (or throwing spells^^)

That army would cost more then just buying daemons, why hasn't GW made this into a box set?

Invisibility on a screamer star is fantastic, I had that and endurance going meaning they didn't go down very easily.

I do disagree with the notion that people will be selling their Eldar armies. I offered to let two players team up on my competitive Eldar list for 1850 vs 2500 and they wouldn't accept. Not only are there ghosthelms that make perils completely harmless, runes of witnessing for improved casting so you don't have to throw in so many dice, runes of warding on one or two farseers which can now be taken in packs for perfect deny the witch, but there's also a handy relic known as the Spirit Stones of Anath'lan which combines perfect with the Daemonology powers just saying=summoning daemons, throwing SD Blasts, improving invulnerable saves, etc. all for Warp Charge 1!

Combine this with the outlandish speed at which our forces operate the Eldar can take objectives with impunity.
Hence there will be an equal playing field between those who can summon additional matter into play and who can break matter the most.

Also, Tzeentch Sorcerors with spell familiars are absolutely incredible units.

Tzeench sorcerers (w/spell fams) in the Apoc formation, pink horrors galore...

Makes for a D weapon, summoning monster

Can't you just assault whatever is on it?

 Iyandenseer wrote:
[...]Also, Tzeentch Sorcerors with spell familiars are absolutely incredible units.

What makes Tzeentch sorcerers better than unmarked sorcerers?

 Hansisaf wrote:

What makes Tzeentch sorcerers better than unmarked sorcerers?

Nothing, they're worse because they have 2 crummy Tzeentch powers.