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Just want to mention...

In Unremembered Empire, Curze kicked every Primarch he fought - Roboute, Lion and Vulkan's but. In fact he fought Lion and Roboute simultaneously and they couldn't put him down. He killed Vulkan twice and injured him so badly when not killing him, which would have killed any other Primarch out-right many times over.

DO NOT DISCARD THE NIGHT-HAUNTER

If your talking about practice fights where its controlled and with rules, sure, it's going to favour one individual over the rest as it's playing to their strenghts. BUT... If you let each Primarch bring his own unique talents to to ring... DIfferent fight all together.

Vulkan was raving mad and dying at the drop of a hat, and the Lion & Guilliman vs Curze fight was cut short by boobytraps. Not dismissing his skills, but those feats basically count for nothing.

And on Tsagualsa, Curze was smashing in Lion's skull and would have killed him until he was stabbed in the back by Lion's bodyguard Corswain.

Theres been a few actual "to the death" battles between Primarchs. Curze has been involved in many of them and has never been bested.

Some confrontations with results (kinda):

Alpharius gets killed by Roboute
Manus killed by Fulgrim (not sure if it counts as Fulgrim was demon possessed)
Magnus back broken by Russ
Curze smashing in Lion's skull
Corax ripped Lorgars guts out on Istvan
Curze nearly disembowling Dorn (pre-heresy)
Lion knocking out Russ
Angron beating Russ at Gehenna
Khan beat Mortarion

Loppie wrote:


Alpharius gets killed by Roboute

It's unknown if Guilliman killed Alpharius, Omegon, or simply some gak Alpha Legion Marine who decided to pull a Spartacus and pose as them. (They have also been known to let their marines drink some of their blood and "become" like the primarch for a short amount of time... yeah, crazy stuff). Or both. OR NEITHER. So you can see where the memes come from. Who the hell did Guilliman kill?

Loppie wrote:
Theres been a few actual "to the death" battles between Primarchs. Curze has been involved in many of them and has never been bested.

Vulkan beat him in their previous confontration. Curse is definitely a contender, but he does seem to have a bad habit of leaving himself open.

Ultimately i'd say he's at or near the top of the second tier, but the top tier would be Angron, Sanguinius and Magnus. At pre-heresy power levels I'd give it to Angron.

Seems like this could be answered just by math hammering the FW primarch rules...

clively wrote:
Seems like this could be answered just by math hammering the FW primarch rules...

Well except certain individuals would automatically fail from the get go due to not having models, the fight arguably forgetting some of their wits and tactics that might help, and, above all, even FW is going to mess up balance here and there. For example, I very much doubt Magnus will be fluffy and even if he does only if they give him two forms with one being him magic big and one normal. Bloody sake, Magnus annihilated titans even without going all chaos traitor mode.

All-out, only one Primarch can raze the surface of planets with his mind and overpower the second most psychically powerful Primarch from the other side of the galaxy.

It's Magnus.

I'm throwing my hat in either the Vulkan or Sanguinius ring.
Vulkan can not die. He will always come back. He will eventually triumph due to this fact. On top of that he is a very tough and powerful competitor, making it so he can take most primarchs before his first time down.
Sanguinius because even Horus has admitted that Sanguinius is the most masterful with a blade and the most skilled fighter. On top of that he flies, and can see flashes of the future.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
I'm throwing my hat in either the Vulkan or Sanguinius ring.
Vulkan can not die. He will always come back. He will eventually triumph due to this fact. On top of that he is a very tough and powerful competitor, making it so he can take most primarchs before his first time down.
Sanguinius because even Horus has admitted that Sanguinius is the most masterful with a blade and the most skilled fighter. On top of that he flies, and can see flashes of the future.

I don't buy the Vulkan argument at all, especially in this case since the argument is about who would win the fight. Getting killed means you lost, whether you come back or not. Regardless, resurrecting does not guarantee that Vulkan will eventually win anyways.

 Orblivion wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
I'm throwing my hat in either the Vulkan or Sanguinius ring.
Vulkan can not die. He will always come back. He will eventually triumph due to this fact. On top of that he is a very tough and powerful competitor, making it so he can take most primarchs before his first time down.
Sanguinius because even Horus has admitted that Sanguinius is the most masterful with a blade and the most skilled fighter. On top of that he flies, and can see flashes of the future.

I don't buy the Vulkan argument at all, especially in this case since the argument is about who would win the fight. Getting killed means you lost, whether you come back or not. Regardless, resurrecting does not guarantee that Vulkan will eventually win anyways.

If he comes back, would he actually have ever been dead? And while yes, he may surrender in the end he would still be fighting until such a time. It is a battle to the death; Vulkan can not die. Cheating? Yes. As fair as being able to destroy planets or control your opponent with your mind? Arguably so. If we don't limit Magnus's psychic powers why should we limit Vulkan's ever-living ability?

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
I'm throwing my hat in either the Vulkan or Sanguinius ring.
Vulkan can not die. He will always come back. He will eventually triumph due to this fact. On top of that he is a very tough and powerful competitor, making it so he can take most primarchs before his first time down.
Sanguinius because even Horus has admitted that Sanguinius is the most masterful with a blade and the most skilled fighter. On top of that he flies, and can see flashes of the future.

I don't buy the Vulkan argument at all, especially in this case since the argument is about who would win the fight. Getting killed means you lost, whether you come back or not. Regardless, resurrecting does not guarantee that Vulkan will eventually win anyways.

If he comes back, would he actually have ever been dead? And while yes, he may surrender in the end he would still be fighting until such a time. It is a battle to the death; Vulkan can not die. Cheating? Yes. As fair as being able to destroy planets or control your opponent with your mind? Arguably so. If we don't limit Magnus's psychic powers why should we limit Vulkan's ever-living ability?

I'm not saying we should limit it, but the OP stipulates 1v1 and it is not a fight to the death. "Killing" Vulkan, or knocking him out or whatever means he lost, end of story. My point still stands that nonstop resurrection is no guarantee of his eventual victory anyways.

It's easy...

At the end, the winner gets his arm raised by the ref who promptly stabs him under the arm into the hearts with the shard of erebus.

The ref reveals himself to be Omegon.

It doesn't matter who will win the fight, because Alpharius will steal the winner's armor and claim the trophy at the awards ceremony.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
It's easy...

At the end, the winner gets his arm raised by the ref who promptly stabs him under the arm into the hearts with the shard of erebus.

The ref reveals himself to be Omegon.

^ Guess I should have read to the end. I like my scenario better, though.

Alpharius is too much of a little guy to fit Magnus' armour.

It should be pre chaos, one death/ko. Natural talent and melee weapons only.

Lorgar try's to get everyone to make peace, Is booed by everyone, run's off and sulks in his room.
Alpharius and Omegon cant decide what to do and stab each other in the back, while whispering plans to each other.
Russ thinks he can take everyone, struts in, takes out Magnus, who's forgotten what's going on again, then gets ko'd by the Lion. Who get's his throat slit by Kurze.
Dorn leans against a wall while Perturabo punches himself exhausted. Dorn ko's Perturabo, then gets gutted by Kurze while catching his breath.
Vulkan takes exception to this, so Kurze borrows his head.
While Kurze is fiddling with his eyes, he gets chopped to bits by Guilliman, who had to stop to write about it in his diary, gets got by Fulgrim.
Ferrus, enraged by Fulgrim's victory dance is completely ineffective against Fulgrim's flashy sword play and has his head removed.
The Khan spins out of his tiring duel with Mortarion, to take the dancing Phoenician's head and gets scythed down in return.
Corax who's been hiding under the ring, finally shows himself and eviscerates Morti, from behind.
Angron finally wakes up and stops attacking the wall to bury his axes into Corax.
Sanguinius, tears streaming down his face, crying for his brothers to stop it gets impaled on Horus' talon.
Angron and Horus face off. For all Horus' skill, he cannot overcome the sheer brute force of the red angel.
Raising the blood drenched Gore family above his head, He declares himself the victor.
Lorgar pokes his head out of his room to see Agron roaring his delight to the sky. Sneaks up and stabs Angron with the Anathame.

VICTOR LORGAR.

Picture him if you will. Little skip's on the spot. Both hands clenched, shaking to side to side. Saying I am the greatest

 Void__Dragon wrote:
All-out, only one Primarch can raze the surface of planets with his mind and overpower the second most psychically powerful Primarch from the other side of the galaxy.

It's Magnus.

Source?

Eihnlazer wrote:
Well, pre-heresy, no question vulkan would win.

He cant die, and is phsyically stronger than the others. Its a slight advantage.


Magus is also a top teir contender, assuming he makes use of his psychic powers judiciously.

If your talking about swordplay, Fulgrim, guilliman, sangy, and horus are the top contenders.

Hes right vulkan is Perpetual but if it was during heresy Horus would win considering he gets a bunch of gifts from the chaos gods but saying Vulkan will win because he cant die is kinda lame.
I think Angron and Sanguinius it would come down to because of Sanguinius can see into the future and predict attacks he also slays greater daemons like its going out of style while Angron is slowly dying from the nails

But Vulkan win sense he cant die...

VULKAN LIVES!!! (read it)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot Magnus but Russ puts him down and most primarchs are protected by psychic.

Russ down a depressed and defeated (internally) Magnus, who also didn't want to hurt Russ because he knew that if he destroyed the Wolves (of which he doubtless had the power, as Tzneetch's plan revolved around both legions wiping each other out...or did it?) then he'd really cock-up the future of the Imperium.
I have no doubts that an "unbound" Magnus could beat the tar out of everyone.
He is the guy who won a fistfight with a Eldar Titan after all.

 Inky wrote:
Russ down a depressed and defeated (internally) Magnus, who also didn't want to hurt Russ because he knew that if he destroyed the Wolves (of which he doubtless had the power, as Tzneetch's plan revolved around both legions wiping each other out...or did it?) then he'd really cock-up the future of the Imperium.
I have no doubts that an "unbound" Magnus could beat the tar out of everyone.
He is the guy who won a fistfight with a Eldar Titan after all.

In a Thousands sons he almost died from those titans dude if it wasn't for one of his sons with a awesome kind shield. And he actually never "punched" a titan just threw warp fire at it.

Not saying magnus is not epic but Vulkan literally was stabbed burned and even corrupted by evil davinite priests yet still lives i think in the end magnus could open a portal and shoot him into space or something but vulkan will be back!

(though vulkan dies so many times by Konrad that he is driven insane so if magnus just kept killing him soon vulkan would get as angry and insane as Angron)

 zombiekila707 wrote:


(though vulkan dies so many times by Konrad that he is driven insane so if magnus just kept killing him soon vulkan would get as angry and insane as Angron)

Yeah, that's one niggling reservation I have about people saying Vulkan would win.

Resurrection can be a right proper bitch in the wrong circumstances.

Why can't someone just plant a blade in Vulkans head and just...

Leave it there?

Surely he can't just regrow around it?

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
All-out, only one Primarch can raze the surface of planets with his mind and overpower the second most psychically powerful Primarch from the other side of the galaxy.

It's Magnus.

Source?

For which one?

The first happens at the end of A Thousand Sons, the latter happens in Aurelian when he gets into a telepathic duel with Lorgar from the other side of the galaxy, while maintaining a psychic projection. Lorgar was psychically applying pressure to Magnus' mind, who eventually got fed up and blasted him down to his knees, giving him a nosebleed and destroying the architecture of the room. In Betrayer, Lorgar actually notes that Magnus' projection alone is so powerful that even being near it hurts his head.

The Heresy books are garbage in terms of consistent representation of primarchs, whether the individual capabilities or in comparison to each other.

The real answer is: The Emperor.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
All-out, only one Primarch can raze the surface of planets with his mind and overpower the second most psychically powerful Primarch from the other side of the galaxy.

It's Magnus.

Really, this is the only answer here.

It's like, not even close.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
For which one?

The first happens at the end of A Thousand Sons, the latter happens in Aurelian when he gets into a telepathic duel with Lorgar from the other side of the galaxy, while maintaining a psychic projection. Lorgar was psychically applying pressure to Magnus' mind, who eventually got fed up and blasted him down to his knees, giving him a nosebleed and destroying the architecture of the room. In Betrayer, Lorgar actually notes that Magnus' projection alone is so powerful that even being near it hurts his head.

I find the first one to be a questionable. I know Magnus raised hell on Prospero; on that part we are clear. The problem for me is that your comment makes out to be like Magnus could use that power you described onto a single target, a Primarch etc.

There seem to be little to no basis for such a belief. Against Russ Magnus only used his psychic abilities to boost his close combat prowess (considerably I might add), and they came nowhere near the scale you claimed he was capable of.

If Russ managed to ward off the majority of Magnus psychic powers, then surely the other Primarchs could do the same with the right kind of knowledge and preparation?

I love these threads

For me in a 1vs1 fight with their designated wargear its between Horus, Angron and Corax. I think the hh short story says Corax views the other two as nigh on unstoppable.
Throw in Magnus at full power though....hmmm. I recall Russ resisted his psychic blast in TS with his own wolf howl? Gotta check that, point being Horus armor and Angrons white rage might counter it?

Cant count Vulkan imho,just because youre immortal, its cheating :p

 Ratius wrote:
I love these threads

For me in a 1vs1 fight with their designated wargear its between Horus, Angron and Corax. I think the hh short story says Corax views the other two as nigh on unstoppable.
Throw in Magnus at full power though....hmmm. I recall Russ resisted his psychic blast in TS with his own wolf howl? Gotta check that, point being Horus armor and Angrons white rage might counter it?

Cant count Vulkan imho,just because youre immortal, its cheating :p

Corax believed that only Horus and maybe Sanguinius could defeat Angron, so how does that put Corax himself in the top 3?

 Redcruisair wrote:


I find the first one to be a questionable. I know Magnus raised hell on Prospero; on that part we are clear. The problem for me is that your comment makes out to be like Magnus could use that power you described onto a single target, a Primarch etc.

There seem to be little to no basis for such a belief. Against Russ Magnus only used his psychic abilities to boost his close combat prowess (considerably I might add), and they came nowhere near the scale you claimed he was capable of.

If Russ managed to ward off the majority of Magnus psychic powers, then surely the other Primarchs could do the same with the right kind of knowledge and preparation?

He could create psyflame hurricanes that destroyed Gargants and could blast hundreds or thousands of Space Wolves into nothing (While fighting Russ). He could with a gesture turn an ocean into corrosive acid, and destroy the remains of Tizca with Earthquakes. All while tearing open the veil and razing the surface of Prospero.

But he can't do these things one on one against a Primarch... Why? Magnus was warding off the entire Space Wolves Legion, not just Russ. And he did this while emotionally broken.

With preparation? Sure, they could come fight Magnus with a bunch of powerful pariahs and armour that turns back psychic powers on the owner like Russ. Who still had a hell of a time fighting the cyclops, whose attention was focused on fighting Russ, devastating the Space Wolves, destroying Prospero (I'm still not sure why he did that admittedly), and channeling a spell to save his sons. Russ is also the only anti-psyker psyker of the Primarchs, which did indeed make him more able to combat Magnus.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
He could with a gesture turn an ocean into corrosive acid.

Yes I recall him turning a large puddle of water into a pool of deadly acid. Saying it was an ocean is stretching it a bit though. Besides what would turning the ocean into acid accomplish anyway? I’m pretty sure all the fighting on Prospero took place on the main continent.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
But he can't do these things one on one against a Primarch... Why? Magnus was warding off the entire Space Wolves Legion, not just Russ. And he did this while emotionally broken.

Hmm common sense would normally dictate that you focus your efforts on the primary threat first. Considering that Russ was fellow Primarch and out for Magnus blood, there really shouldn’t be any doubt as to what Magnus needed to focus on first.

Yet for some reason Magnus decides to gamble it all on fighting Russ and his legion on the same time. Why? Why not just snipe Russ and then take care of the space wolves? He would probably have won the war if he had done so.

It is this problem that makes me question whether Magnus really could casually mind crush a fellow Primarch.