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 Wyzilla wrote:
Vulkan and Magnus are pretty much the only two that matter. The question is how the hell either party wins.

 Kain wrote:
I can say the same here.

I've lost a lot of faith in the game itself, but I'm already kind of heavily tied to Dakka so I always come back in.

I tend to take a vacation every time one of those damn "genitalia" threads shows up in 40K Background. We might have to forcibly drag Dakka's head out of the gutter eventually.

The internet loves it's dicks. In every sense of the term.

everyone is talking about who's the strongest. that's not all that relevant, they're all superhumanly strong. any of the primarchs possesses enough raw strength to land a fatal blow on any other. the key is speed and skill in combat, not just power. after all, ya can't kill what ya can't hit. ferrus's big hammer might be impressive, but it'd be hard to recover quickly enough from swinging and missing fulgrim to avoid a blade through the neck, for example.

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Vulkan and Magnus are pretty much the only two that matter. The question is how the hell either party wins.

 Kain wrote:
I can say the same here.

I've lost a lot of faith in the game itself, but I'm already kind of heavily tied to Dakka so I always come back in.

I tend to take a vacation every time one of those damn "genitalia" threads shows up in 40K Background. We might have to forcibly drag Dakka's head out of the gutter eventually.

The internet loves it's dicks. In every sense of the term.

As an aspiring biologist*, I find the anatomy of fictional genitalia quite interesting. Much more so than what they're used for.

EDIT: * I have to challenge everyone I meet to single combat. If I win, I sometimes grow a pair of safety goggles.

I think it would very much depend on who was drawn against who in some circumstances as much as anything else. Assuming pre-heresy with no Chaos trickery involved then a lot of the matches are fairly 50/50.

We know from canon that it was reckoned that the only Primarchs that could beat Angron going toe-to-toe would be Horus and possibly Sanguinius. However, that is just a straight up knife fight. I doubt Corax or Kurze would fight him in that fashion. They might beat him by striking from the shadows unexpectedly. However if they don't either kill him in that attack or successfully escape after making a pass then they are probably done for.

Similarly Magus is a really powerful psyker. However Angrons rage and sheer bloody-mindedness may allow him to throw of Magnus' psychic attacks.

Long story short we don't really know enough about all the primarchs pre-heresy to really make an informed decision.

If you plumped all of them in some kind of battlefield, all with their preferred gear and abilities, only the 18 of them?

Gotta say, either Horus(If he's high on Chaos juice) Sangy or Magnus.

He did beat an eldar titan in h2h combat once, remember?

 Dylanj94 wrote:
I think horus would be strongest, being the whole warmaster guy, killing sanguinus and nearly killing the emperor.

But, at the same time the great wonderful and powerful Lion El'jonson was never at that final battle, and if I remember correctly was born fighting gigantic beast monsters. and later knocked out leman russ for being an donkey-cave.

so, according to the lore, horus was the strongest

according to my opinion, Lion el'jonson

Horus only nearly killed the Emperor because the Emperor didn't want to kill his favorite son. Of actual power, Vulkan and Magnus would likely be the two most powerful primarchs. Hell TT wise Vulkan IS the most powerful primarch.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Dylanj94 wrote:
I think horus would be strongest, being the whole warmaster guy, killing sanguinus and nearly killing the emperor.

But, at the same time the great wonderful and powerful Lion El'jonson was never at that final battle, and if I remember correctly was born fighting gigantic beast monsters. and later knocked out leman russ for being an donkey-cave.

so, according to the lore, horus was the strongest

according to my opinion, Lion el'jonson

Horus only nearly killed the Emperor because the Emperor didn't want to kill his favorite son. Of actual power, Vulkan and Magnus would likely be the two most powerful primarchs. Hell TT wise Vulkan IS the most powerful primarch.

That's because Vulkan makes Mortarion look like a chump when it comes to the "not dying" department.

GDI.

Lorgar with invisibility is troll worthy though.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:

Russ was the only one to have ever defeated Horus in single combat (a training match, I believe).

Source?

There isn't one, Russ admits himself in vengeful spirit he couldn't take out horus.

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Dylanj94 wrote:
I think horus would be strongest, being the whole warmaster guy, killing sanguinus and nearly killing the emperor.

But, at the same time the great wonderful and powerful Lion El'jonson was never at that final battle, and if I remember correctly was born fighting gigantic beast monsters. and later knocked out leman russ for being an donkey-cave.

so, according to the lore, horus was the strongest

according to my opinion, Lion el'jonson

Horus only nearly killed the Emperor because the Emperor didn't want to kill his favorite son. Of actual power, Vulkan and Magnus would likely be the two most powerful primarchs. Hell TT wise Vulkan IS the most powerful primarch.

That's because Vulkan makes Mortarion look like a chump when it comes to the "not dying" department.

GDI.

Lorgar with invisibility is troll worthy though.

Also, I just remembered that Curze can't be counted out too easily. Same with Lorgar. Curze survived in the mantle of Nostramo upon landing as a baby and was likely exposed to temperatures around 2,000 degrees Celsius. Lorgrar tanked a Titan plasma blaster IIRC, which is around the twenty million degrees Celsius mark, if not greater as that's just the temperature for standard Plasma Guns, not titan-grade weapons.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways?

If we decide that a fight is only fair when the two contestants are evenly matched, then all fair fights will end in a draw. Does this make sense? I don't know about everyone else, but my definition of a fair fight is one in which the two contestants have to play by the same rules. The two contestants don't have to be evenly matched. If Lennox Lewis fights Pee Wee Herman, I consider it a fair fight as long as both fighters wear the same gloves and obey the same rules. It would be an incredible mismatch, but it would still be a fair fight.

 Happyjew wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways?

If we decide that a fight is only fair when the two contestants are evenly matched, then all fair fights will end in a draw. Does this make sense? I don't know about everyone else, but my definition of a fair fight is one in which the two contestants have to play by the same rules. The two contestants don't have to be evenly matched. If Lennox Lewis fights Pee Wee Herman, I consider it a fair fight as long as both fighters wear the same gloves and obey the same rules. It would be an incredible mismatch, but it would still be a fair fight.

You stole that from Stardestroyer.net, didn't you?

 Kain wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways?

If we decide that a fight is only fair when the two contestants are evenly matched, then all fair fights will end in a draw. Does this make sense? I don't know about everyone else, but my definition of a fair fight is one in which the two contestants have to play by the same rules. The two contestants don't have to be evenly matched. If Lennox Lewis fights Pee Wee Herman, I consider it a fair fight as long as both fighters wear the same gloves and obey the same rules. It would be an incredible mismatch, but it would still be a fair fight.

You stole that from Stardestroyer.net, didn't you?

Yes, yes I did. Honestly I'm surprised somebody recognized it.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways?

If we decide that a fight is only fair when the two contestants are evenly matched, then all fair fights will end in a draw. Does this make sense? I don't know about everyone else, but my definition of a fair fight is one in which the two contestants have to play by the same rules. The two contestants don't have to be evenly matched. If Lennox Lewis fights Pee Wee Herman, I consider it a fair fight as long as both fighters wear the same gloves and obey the same rules. It would be an incredible mismatch, but it would still be a fair fight.

You stole that from Stardestroyer.net, didn't you?

Yes, yes I did. Honestly I'm surprised somebody recognized it.

My history with the intertubez is vast.

Here be the rules then:

No weapons, no armor, no psychic shooting attacks or internal organ rupturing. Also no flying higher than 8m.

Everyone starts 50m away from each other in a circle going clockwise in alphabetical order.

Alpharius and Omega are considered a single entity.



Winner is either the last one standing or the last one conscience.

Well, Forgeworld has given us stats for a number of Primarchs. Why not assume two deep strike on a 4x8 table and play out a few iterations with the equipment provided. Then add in as new Primarchs are released. That could make some good photoshopped pictures at minimum.

There is no sure winner, just because Vulkan is the strongest doesn't mean he is going to win, or Magnus because he is the most powerful psyker. There are egos, friendships and rivalries that should be taken into consideration, double teaming and dirty tricks.

Because Mortarion and Russ don't like witches they might double team Magnus only to kill each other afterwards. Or Ferrus falls to his doom after the ground he is standing on can't take the weight of his big head and metal arms.

Maaybe Magnus uses his psychic might and causes a nearby volcano to erupt that kills everyone with the lava flow, including him, but Sanguinius and Corax go into hover mode. Poor Sanguinuis though falls into the lava and dies after a rogue piece of ash falls on his wings and causes them to burn away.

The Emperor watching from his space ship decides that he was wrong to create the stupid, bickering cretins below and hadoukens the planet, killing all of the Primarchs. Valdor is now numero uno and the Imperium lives happily ever after.

jhe90 wrote:
Aragon is the angrist guy in universe, and former gladiator with duel chain axes.....

This is him at home....deranged bloody close combat

Aragon sure looks angry on this picture. Or at least the King of Aragon does. And a king is supposed to represent his country, so I guess you are right. Not sure if he is an angrist though.

Most of these guys have stats. Let's place them 24" from each other with a piece of terrain in between and then have a go at it

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Most of these guys have stats. Let's place them 24" from each other with a piece of terrain in between and then have a go at it

That wouldn't work as those stats are from the time of the heresy when some of them are tanked on Chaos juice, so it wouldn't necessarily be representative of pre-heresy as the OP asked.

When it comes to Magnus, I'd like to point out a few things.

Firstly, after Horus pretty much DtW'd on him, he didn't really have friends anymore. Magnus and the 1k Sons is above all the saddest story of all the Chaos Legions. They were the group that truly (and to this day) were using their powers for "good" and mastering the Warp for the Imperium. Now they do it, well out of spite for Tzeentch who tricked them all that way, but also to make sure no one else gets caught in their trap with the exception of maniacs like Amon. So his ego and mindset in this contest are focused as is necessary for a psyker of his caliber in the first place.

Secondly, about that focus? Before the 1K sons became walking urns, in the battle for Prospero, I'm told Magnus managed all of the psychic disciplines of his legion from a single post, issuing out commands and such to the thousands+ that made up his legion. He also hit the eject button to send them into the warp as well and it has been argued, to send of the Blood Ravens predecessors.

Finally, those disciplines I was talking about. It's not just Warpfire and Lava exploding from the ground. It's Telekinesis, Hallucinations, physical manifestations like clone images, it's sensory deprivation it's whatever his mind basically wants it to be. So before the battle even starts, Magnus could end up making everyone think that they're fighting these really intense battles that gets them all killed down to a man, then Magnus walks up and beams him over the head with a 2x4, because K-OS.

It's like that song, "Anything you can do, I can do better." -Magnus the Red.

Interesting to note in the new book Vengeful Spirit it is claimed Leman Russ defeated any Primarch but Horus in training battles.

 Harriticus wrote:
Interesting to note in the new book Vengeful Spirit it is claimed Leman Russ defeated any Primarch but Horus in training battles.

If you are referring to Russ' statement about Horus being the only one he wasn't sure if he could kill, I don't think he meant in personal combat so much as if he and his legion could make the kill on another Primarch if they were tasked with it. That doesn't have to come down to a one-on-one. Much like Betrayer made it clear that Russ wasn't equal to Angron in a fight, but the Space Wolves still could have killed him if they had to.

Probably Sangy, as even Horus (hed come second) stated that Sangy was the only other Primarch he belived could defeat Horus. Angron was tough and violent, but most of the top tier primarchs (papa smurf, horus, sangy) believed that they would easily beat him in a fight.

1 on 1....Horus

Horus was declared Warmaster by the Emperor for a reason, Military Genius and he was the greatest of the Primarchs. Yeah he was favored by the Emperor for a reason and It took the Emperor himself to stop him. The Emperor was mortally wounded doing so.

Alpharius/Omegon.

'Cause there's two of them and the battle would've been rigged.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
1 on 1....Horus

Horus was declared Warmaster by the Emperor for a reason, Military Genius and he was the greatest of the Primarchs. Yeah he was favored by the Emperor for a reason and It took the Emperor himself to stop him. The Emperor was mortally wounded doing so.

That was Chaos Horus, the one powered up by all 4 Chaos gods, and even then he didn't actually stand a chance once the Emperor finally took the fight seriously.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
1 on 1....Horus

Horus was declared Warmaster by the Emperor for a reason, Military Genius and he was the greatest of the Primarchs. Yeah he was favored by the Emperor for a reason and It took the Emperor himself to stop him. The Emperor was mortally wounded doing so.

That was Chaos Horus, the one powered up by all 4 Chaos gods, and even then he didn't actually stand a chance once the Emperor finally took the fight seriously.

I can't deny the first part of you statement, however I doubt the Emperor thought the battle wasn't worth taking seriously. I also agree if the Emperor fought pre-chaos Horus it would be no contest. Still Pre-chaos Horus would walk out winner 1 on 1 against all the Primarchs. There was a reason he was the Emperors favorite, all you need is reread 3rd and 4th edition rulebook fluff. I can’t say for 5th or 6th fluff, since I stopped buying the BRB. Maybe the fluff changed since then, or those Black Library books changed something. I wouldn't know since I can't stand reading novels in the Grim Sci-fi genre. I prefer to read fantasy based material.

Eihnlazer wrote:
Here be the rules then:

No weapons, no armor, no psychic shooting attacks or internal organ rupturing. Also no flying higher than 8m.

Everyone starts 50m away from each other in a circle going clockwise in alphabetical order.

Alpharius and Omega are considered a single entity.

Winner is either the last one standing or the last one conscience.

You're not the thread maker.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Because Mortarion and Russ don't like witches they might double team Magnus only to kill each other afterwards.

Read the OP.

This is a gauntlet, not a battle royale.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Still Pre-chaos Horus would walk out winner 1 on 1 against all the Primarchs.

Tell that to Lorgar. He telepathically made Horus his nancy.

In terms of martial skill Horus is indeed up there with the best, but he was hardly unbeatable.

Sanguinius > horus 1v1. That's in the fluff. Said so by horua iirc. Ornhinted at.

 raiden wrote:
Sanguinius > horus 1v1. That's in the fluff. Said so by horua iirc. Ornhinted at.

I'm not so sure about that. Pre-chaos buff I think Horus would have had much more trouble with Sanguinius but I wouldn't count out Horus in that fight.