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 azreal13 wrote:
Lol, just realised that the zero discount bundles are on pre-order for sale on the 12th July!

So, I can buy three Knights now, for £255, or I can pre order three Knights for delivery next week.

For £255.

'This is great etc etc'

I can only fathom these bundles with zero savings attached to them are designed to appeal to the laziest gamers ever created, who not only can't be bothered to press a few buttons to arrive at a discounters site let alone ordering the models individually from GW, or to snag unwary parents who assume, like rational human beings who've never dealt with GW before, that a bundle is a discounted deal for buying bulk...

I did get excited as there was an armored bundle of leman russes, but screw paying full retail for them.

 azreal13 wrote:
Lol, just realised that the zero discount bundles are on pre-order for sale on the 12th July!

So, I can buy three Knights now, for £255, or I can pre order three Knights for delivery next week.

For £255.

Kinda makes you wonder if they know what they're doing?

The level of absurdity with these things is beyond the pale.

So... is this campaign book Limited Edition?

They made a teaser trailer for this? This release is lame as hell.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... is this campaign book Limited Edition?

From what I can tell, no.

They have a "limited edition" version of it that comes bundled with the novella and both have variant covers...but who really cares about that.

Especially when the cover art for the main book is this awesome:


I might wait until they do the inevitable "bundle" of all the parts of the campaign itself and get it then. I have a distinct feeling that this campaign is going to be how they redo Cities of Death.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... is this campaign book Limited Edition?

The Slipcase edition is. The regular edition isn't, although we don't know how many they printed.

Ok, well, I've said in the past that I operate on a system of credit where credit's due, so for all I rag on GW (and boy do they deserve it), I'll also celebrate areas where I feel they're doing the right thing. I've said previously that I liked the Warzone books (if not their unnecessary limited edition nature), and the idea of releasing a series of campaign books is exactly what GW should be doing rather than WD-only DLC and datasheets and all that other nickel/dime nonsense.

The price of the book is still bonkers (really guys? Twice that of an FFG supplement?), but I'd rather the book exist than not exist.

And it doesn't help that GW's free shipping threshold is $85, and the book is $83. Bastards.

Buy a paint pot.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... is this campaign book Limited Edition?

From what I can tell, no.

They have a "limited edition" version of it that comes bundled with the novella and both have variant covers...but who really cares about that.

Especially when the cover art for the main book is this awesome:


I might wait until they do the inevitable "bundle" of all the parts of the campaign itself and get it then. I have a distinct feeling that this campaign is going to be how they redo Cities of Death.

I should hope Cities of Death would get an update. It's been what, four editions since that came out? I would love for some GOOD city fighting rules.

On the Mek bundle, the MANz would also give an existing player two models with twin killsawz to add to their existing units.
I think it's a decent enough load out of minis.

This 'first phase' of the Sanctus Reach campaign doesn't touch upon CItyfight/Cities of Death, but it does present an updated version of Planetstrike in its entirety. I couldn't see how they were going to get all of Planetstrike down to 8 pages, until I went back and looked at the original book.

Planetstrike has a lot of fluff and artwork. It also has tons of rules for Fortifications, which don't need to be reprinted, since there's another book out there for that (Stronghold Assault). Jervis mentions that Sanctus Reach also includes the Planetfall mission, which tells me that they eliminated the other Planetstrike Missions (which, honestly, is okay, since they were all variations of Planetfall).

Thus, they just need the basic rules for Planetstrike, with the Detachments, and (hopefully) stratagems. I loved those things!, and I can easily see that fitting into 8 pages.

These books are too expensive at full retail, but I do like the idea of a 'campaign' book that includes information and scenarios from a specific campaign, but also gives you a different game. I could certainly see a second phase of the Sanctus Reach campaign covering Cityfight/Cities of Death, and I could even see a supplement that snuck in Zone Mortalis rules (or Voidfighting rules). It helps that one of the armies is Orks (my skumgrods), but I feel for those poor dudes playing Necrons or CSM who have the choice of buying a book with nothing about their army to get the rules, or not getting the rules.

I still think the 'old style' of variant rules (Cityfight/Planetstrike/Battle Missions) was best, because it gave you a little bit of information for everybody, so there wasn't the feeling that you were buying 8 pages of rules and 50 pages of filler. However, it's better than a kick in the teeth.

I just got back into 40k not to long ago, but I remember the fall of Medusa V campaign and I must say that overall I loved the presentation behind that a lot more. looking at the GW website now and remembering what it used to be it disappoints me a little. I don't plan on giving 40k up again in the near future but I kind of wish GW would improve their releases.

It's a book full of fluff, missions, and formations for Imperial Guard, who are quite possibly my favorite army? Yeah, I'll be grabbing a copy.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Lol, just realised that the zero discount bundles are on pre-order for sale on the 12th July!

So, I can buy three Knights now, for £255, or I can pre order three Knights for delivery next week.

For £255.

'This is great etc etc'

I can only fathom these bundles with zero savings attached to them are designed to appeal to the laziest gamers ever created, who not only can't be bothered to press a few buttons to arrive at a discounters site let alone ordering the models individually from GW, or to snag unwary parents who assume, like rational human beings who've never dealt with GW before, that a bundle is a discounted deal for buying bulk...

I did get excited as there was an armored bundle of leman russes, but screw paying full retail for them.

Uhm, can one of you fine British folks talk, call or write a letter to the British Advertising Standards Authority (ASA)? I mean if this can happen, http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/07/british-regulator-ea-misled-by-calling-dungeon-keeper-free-to-play/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+(Ars+Technica+-+All+content) could the same apply to GW?

Isn't it Advertising on the GW site? So people believing they are saving money and not, could what happened to EA apply to GW?

There's nothing on the GW site that says you're saving money, so I don't think they're in breach of any sort of policy there.

The thing with the bundles is, they make perfect sense. For the ten minutes it takes to set them up, if even a couple of people buy something as part of one they wouldn't have bought otherwise, it works out as a bonus for GW.

 Paradigm wrote:
There's nothing on the GW site that says you're saving money, so I don't think they're in breach of any sort of policy there.

The thing with the bundles is, they make perfect sense. For the ten minutes it takes to set them up, if even a couple of people buy something as part of one they wouldn't have bought otherwise, it works out as a bonus for GW.

Other companies like Lego do them too:

http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/Product-Collections-Exclusive-Hard-to-Find-Items-ByCategory

No savings or benefits, but as with GW, no promises of "value" or "discount". They are only aimed at people for who money is no object, and as Paradigm says, there is literally no cost to them doing it.

They are even helpful for non friends/relatives who are buying gifts as they help them see what 'goes together'

no use for us wargamers mind but they do have a place in a store

Thanks guys for the feedback. Wow that is low of GW if they going for the crowd that doesn't know better. Is there really that many people out there, that GW rather have them for business than their actual customers or is GW really desperate now?

Just mind boggles me GW practices. It's like they don't want my money sometimes.

Davor wrote:
Thanks guys for the feedback. Wow that is low of GW if they going for the crowd that doesn't know better. Is there really that many people out there, that GW rather have them for business than their actual customers or is GW really desperate now?

Just mind boggles me GW practices. It's like they don't want my money sometimes.

Sometimes they don't want your money, they might want the money of a totally different demographic. They will happily take your money if you offer it though.

Davor wrote:
Thanks guys for the feedback. Wow that is low of GW if they going for the crowd that doesn't know better. Is there really that many people out there, that GW rather have them for business than their actual customers or is GW really desperate now?

Just mind boggles me GW practices. It's like they don't want my money sometimes.

How is it low? They are bundles of goods at a listed price. You may wish that you got a bulk discount, but there is nothing requiring GW to offer said discount, and nothing anywhere that even implies that the one-click collections are deals, bargins, or discounts. People who do know better usually don't buy from GW's website to begin with, going for the FLGS or online discounters.

Low would be something like advertising them as bargains, then adding an "online order service fee" or something to bring the price up higher, like many repair places, phone companies, ect do. Or if the bundle cost more than the price of the components.

GW is quite upfront. One Knight? $140. Three Knights that make up a cool squadron? $420. I may not like the prices (I miss the days of the $90 Baneblade, and wish the Knight would have been $90 or $85) but these bundles are not morally dubious at all, like you seem to be implying.

 BrookM wrote:
The shiny the OP didn't want to share:

Ready your lasguns, load your bolters, arm your Imperial Knights and prepare to fight to the last man. The Red Waaagh! has come to the Sanctus Reach. Want to know more? Check back on Saturday 5th July to find out what’s going on.

I really do hate these GW videos. They must be created/edited by work experience kids, they're just the worst "promotional/reveal" videos I've seen

 Paradigm wrote:
There's nothing on the GW site that says you're saving money, so I don't think they're in breach of any sort of policy there.

The thing with the bundles is, they make perfect sense. For the ten minutes it takes to set them up, if even a couple of people buy something as part of one they wouldn't have bought otherwise, it works out as a bonus for GW.

I think the ire they would earn from the customer base, from anyone with four working brain-cells or more that can see there is no saving on buying the items separately, would more than offset any 'bonus' GW would get from this.

It's not an underhand way of selling (you might get a really uninformed parent with too much money to spend thinking they are getting some kind of extra value here, on top of the standard release - although I think that unlikely), but it's just another example of the complete lack of any initiative or marketing nous to attempt to generate extra sales.

I don't know, maybe the things are selling so well that they don't need to give anything at all extra to sell the Knights, and the webstore will be full of people giggling like lunatics and exclaiming 'LOL' as they happily click on the 'add to cart' button for this deal multiple times?

I'm not sure. The ire mostly comes from those of us who are aware of cheaper retailers, 3rd party models and the hobby world in general outside of GW. The bundles are targeted at those who use the GW site anyway, and are 'used to' paying the full retail price, so they're not losing sales on the whole, and maybe gaining some.

The disillusionment with GW is probably contained to online forums, and that is no doubt a small sector of the player base. For each one of us with the will to grumble, there are half a dozen that will see the bundles and click 'buy'.

It's also easier for gift buyers; rather than putting Timmy's new Space Marine army together squad-by-squad, Timmy's mother can just get a bundle which will, according to GW, give an army.

 Paradigm wrote:

The disillusionment with GW is probably contained to online forums, and that is no doubt a small sector of the player base. For each one of us with the will to grumble, there are half a dozen that will see the bundles and click 'buy'.

It's also easier for gift buyers; rather than putting Timmy's new Space Marine army together squad-by-squad, Timmy's mother can just get a bundle which will, according to GW, give an army.

Of the gaming and hobby stores I've been to on the west coast, I've not met a single person at one who had a nice thing to say about GW. Quite the contrary, most of them seem to mirror the sentiment I see on Dakka - Frustration over price-hikes, fail-cast, their callous disregard for sellers, the undermining of their own stores, their mind-boggling stupid marketing strategies / lack there of, the wonky choices they make in some codex, and massive imbalance in the game itself.

So far as gift buyers go... I donno, maybe I had a great mom when I started playing 40k back when I was 11. She picked up the other army and we'd build / paint together, she understood the game just as I did; had a codex and an army just like I did. She wasn't as good as I was, she'd forget the rules / get confused sometimes, and she didn't spend as much money on her stuff as I did on mine, but she was smarter than Timmy's mum apparently is.

 Paradigm wrote:
For each one of us with the will to grumble, there are half a dozen that will see the bundles and click 'buy'.

I take issue with this statement. I'm sure that GW believe this to be true but their recent financials seem to suggest the opposite would be more likely.

The argument that the forums are the tiny minority and everything is fine with the majority doesn't hold wight when in some parts of the world GW was down something like 30% sales in their last half year report.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
For each one of us with the will to grumble, there are half a dozen that will see the bundles and click 'buy'.

I take issue with this statement. I'm sure that GW believe this to be true but their recent financials seem to suggest the opposite would be more likely.

The argument that the forums are the tiny minority and everything is fine with the majority doesn't hold wight when in some parts of the world GW was down something like 30% sales in their last half year report.

Fair enough. I haven't read the financial reports, but I can certainly see more gamers wising up to GW's 'true nature', given the increasing community communication and the rise of alternative companies they prove you can do what GW does for half the price. So I can certainly see the ratio of those of us that know to those that don't dropping.

But the bundles will still be bought by those ignorant of the alternatives, and this is where GW make their money, especially on the bundles. The times they are a-changing, but not yet to the extent that GW can't get away with stuff like this. When all their press (I use the word loosely) and image tries to indoctrinate you with the idea that they are the be-all and end-all of the Hobby, there are bound to be susceptible kids whose parents have deep pockets.

 Paradigm wrote:
I'm not sure. The ire mostly comes from those of us who are aware of cheaper retailers, 3rd party models and the hobby world in general outside of GW. The bundles are targeted at those who use the GW site anyway, and are 'used to' paying the full retail price, so they're not losing sales on the whole, and maybe gaining some.

The disillusionment with GW is probably contained to online forums, and that is no doubt a small sector of the player base. For each one of us with the will to grumble, there are half a dozen that will see the bundles and click 'buy'.

It's also easier for gift buyers; rather than putting Timmy's new Space Marine army together squad-by-squad, Timmy's mother can just get a bundle which will, according to GW, give an army.

The thing is Paradigm, have you ever bought anything (outside of wargaming, or specifically GW as they are the only ones who do this) where you have thought 'wow, multibuy with one click!' and where buying that bundle hasn't offered any kind of saving?

So for example: you want to buy a tin of beans. But, you can buy a pack of 4 of them, for exactly the same price as if you had bought 4 individual tins? Or, go to buy a DVD/Blue-ray, and they have special labels on them saying "£10 each, 3 for £30!"

Both of those examples above are deliberately ridiculous, because you just don't encounter them. TBH, I think the whole thing is both hilarious and also an insight into exactly how GW judges the intelligence level (or maybe awareness) of their customers.

 Pacific wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
I'm not sure. The ire mostly comes from those of us who are aware of cheaper retailers, 3rd party models and the hobby world in general outside of GW. The bundles are targeted at those who use the GW site anyway, and are 'used to' paying the full retail price, so they're not losing sales on the whole, and maybe gaining some.

The disillusionment with GW is probably contained to online forums, and that is no doubt a small sector of the player base. For each one of us with the will to grumble, there are half a dozen that will see the bundles and click 'buy'.

It's also easier for gift buyers; rather than putting Timmy's new Space Marine army together squad-by-squad, Timmy's mother can just get a bundle which will, according to GW, give an army.

The thing is Paradigm, have you ever bought anything (outside of wargaming, or specifically GW as they are the only ones who do this) where you have thought 'wow, multibuy with one click!' and where buying that bundle hasn't offered any kind of saving?

So for example: you want to buy a tin of beans. But, you can buy a pack of 4 of them, for exactly the same price as if you had bought 4 individual tins? Or, go to buy a DVD/Blue-ray, and they have special labels on them saying "£10 each, 3 for £30!"

Both of those examples above are deliberately ridiculous, because you just don't encounter them. TBH, I think the whole thing is both hilarious and also an insight into exactly how GW judges the intelligence level (or maybe awareness) of their customers.

Personally, I haven't, but the practice does exist outside of GW. Amazon frequently list 'buy [the product you are viewing] + [related product] + [related product] for [no saving]', and it's really just for convenience. And if, for example, I were a child asking my parents for a new army for Christmas, it'd be much easier to point them to a single page with the bundle than list everything separately.

And I do know people in real life who have bought these bundles. There was a guy at a club I attended that was looking at starting a Raven Guard army, saw the Shrike+VV+Tactical Squad bundle (or whatever it was) and just bought it. He recognised that there were no savings, but figured it would be a good starting point for an army, and if you're going to use everything in it, then you might as well.

And, for the effort it takes GW to set these up, any sales they make are really a bonus. For example, the Ultramarines Chapter bundle was mental, but if anyone did buy it, then that's loads of cash for them that otherwise would probably not have been spent. This is an extreme example, but the principle is the same; it's potentially more sales for minimal effort.

I don't think they can be condemned for the practice, as they don't advertise it as offering any savings, so they're not being misleading or false. I agree it is annoying and probably stupid that they don't offer discount deals, but that's their call. Of the list of grievances most of us have with GW, I don't think no-saving-bundles are really near the top...

I'm pretty certain that if you were to take a moment to see what you are arguing over, you would find it as hilarious as I do