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 Rysaer wrote:
I genuinely hope that GW never revisits the Dark Angels models after this, I'd hate for this to happen to my army.

***COUGH*** ...darkshroud... ***COUGH***

 Fabio Bile wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I love so much about this hobby. But most of all I love the people that play it. We had a series on telly a while back in England called "grumpy old men", and almost everyone on this forum could've probably starred in it. I mean seriously, some people are never ever happy.

To me this is easily the nastiest, most unpleasant thing that's been posted in this thread. I guess you must be really bright and positive that you can say something like that and not be a hate-filled grump.

I mean I think that's how being a nice person works. I dunno, I don't like these miniatures, so obviously I wouldn't know.

It wasn't meant as nasty at all, It was meant as a light hearted jibe. I just sometimes feel as hobbies we are all never happy. And that's myself included. I feel for GW, no matter what they do someone somewhere won't like it. That's the nature of personal taste. You can never please everyone all the time.

Yes I agree, my avatar is what a space wolf should look like. But ultimately who has given us the space wolves and told us who they are? GW. so they are within their rights to elaborate, bring in new things and do what they want with them. And the bonus with 40K, it's a fantasy universe. Anything is possible.

I'll prove a point and be negative myself. Murderfang. Love the model. ENTIRELY agree on the head. DESPISE the back story. I mean really, it's terrible. I get the feeling the person who wrote that did so on a Friday afternoon. But it's 40K, so I can just invent my own back story and suddenly it fits. I don't even have to call it murderfang. And suddenly I'm on that show too.

To the OP. I was not meant to offend. I appreciated your original post, that's why I replied. I just simply attempted to let you know my point of view. I despise bickering on this forum, so if my replay felt like a personal dig I am sorry. You did ask people to change your mind and I was just trying to show a way around it all. I'll be hanged for this, but I really do think the chariot it a cool model.

I built a stormfang today and the model is starting to grow on me. It's pretty much a flying cannon, which I like. I still prefer the look of the fire raptor and storm eagle but I can live with it. On the other hand, logan in his sleigh gets more ridiculous every time I look at it.

I've actually begun to feel sorry for SW players. I used to have a heavy bias against them as a group due to differences in perception/preferences with most of its members I interacted with, but right now they have my sympathy. All the more as I once thought the SW were pretty cool myself, way back when they were still more down-to-earth. It almost makes me anticipate the next Marine 'dex/units simply because I am now curious to see how far GW is going to push this new design philosophy.

The transport flyer I actually like, as (in my eyes) it follows the boxy tradition of the Thunderhawk - the comparison to WW2 landing boats has already been made as well, and I think it fits. The only thing I dislike about it is that it is presented as a Wolf thing, whereas I believe it should be general Astartes equipment. I have a general aversion to individual Chapters gaining unique vehicles (though under such circumstances admittedly makes it slightly more sensible to give them their own codex), but admittedly I'm not even sure I like new stuff being introduced retroactively in general. Either way, I feel that designwise the model is sound.
But a SW version of this transport could simply be a variant of it, with a dozen large, round shields tacked onto each side (bearing the markings of the Great Company and/or the individual warriors inside) and perhaps a modified prow and/or rear to convey that longboat vibe they were at least partially going for with the hoversled. But instead ... they got Santa.

"Murderfang" has already been discussed at length, I don't think I have anything to add here.


To think there are still people wondering why I do not want GW to design new SoB minis ...

 Lynata wrote:
I've actually begun to feel sorry for SW players. I used to have a heavy bias against them as a group due to differences in perception/preferences with most of its members I interacted with, but right now they have my sympathy. All the more as I once thought the SW were pretty cool myself, way back when they were still more down-to-earth. It almost makes me anticipate the next Marine 'dex/units simply because I am now curious to see how far GW is going to push this new design philosophy.

The transport flyer I actually like, as (in my eyes) it follows the boxy tradition of the Thunderhawk - the comparison to WW2 landing boats has already been made as well, and I think it fits. The only thing I dislike about it is that it is presented as a Wolf thing, whereas I believe it should be general Astartes equipment. I have a general aversion to individual Chapters gaining unique vehicles (though under such circumstances admittedly makes it slightly more sensible to give them their own codex), but admittedly I'm not even sure I like new stuff being introduced retroactively in general. Either way, I feel that designwise the model is sound.
But a SW version of this transport could simply be a variant of it, with a dozen large, round shields tacked onto each side (bearing the markings of the Great Company and/or the individual warriors inside) and perhaps a modified prow and/or rear to convey that longboat vibe they were at least partially going for with the hoversled. But instead ... they got Santa.

"Murderfang" has already been discussed at length, I don't think I have anything to add here.


To think there are still people wondering why I do not want GW to design new SoB minis ...

Why not? You can get the new Sisters Penitent Engine character called "Purgeblade that uses its Purgesaws to Purge all heretics.
Or their new flier, a cathedral with four rocket engines and a Purgecannon.
Sounds like pure win to me!

Stormfang is freaking awesome, really fun build and looks pretty badass. Really gives off the flying transport vibe better than the stormraven.

Dreadnought box. This box has lots of options, and that makes it amazing. I didn't like murderfangs exposed face, so I didn't use it. I did magnetize the claws so I can swap muderfang claws for sword and board, also all the guns are magnetized alongside both arms. Really an awesome kit. I went with the standard helm, I didn't like the look of the skull either. I like my dreadnoughts to seem emotionless.

Grimnar, the butt end of ever joke since the first leaked picture. 90% of the internet hates it and wants you to know. Seriously, it looks silly, we get it. I think the grimnar model on its own is superb, his chariot will be the new dreadknight when it comes to people making 40k jokes.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
his chariot will be the new dreadknight when it comes to people making 40k jokes.

And deservedly so.

Logan Claws looks like a bad Samael. The very idea of a dog sled taking a genetically modified humam wearing robo,-armor into hand to hand combat with a tank is stupid beyond words.

Dont get me wrong, i like the Logan model. The dog sled could probably be converted in to something cool,like a SW land speeder hybrid

 Lynata wrote:
I've actually begun to feel sorry for SW players. I used to have a heavy bias against them as a group due to differences in perception/preferences with most of its members I interacted with, but right now they have my sympathy. All the more as I once thought the SW were pretty cool myself, way back when they were still more down-to-earth. It almost makes me anticipate the next Marine 'dex/units simply because I am now curious to see how far GW is going to push this new design philosophy.

The transport flyer I actually like, as (in my eyes) it follows the boxy tradition of the Thunderhawk - the comparison to WW2 landing boats has already been made as well, and I think it fits. The only thing I dislike about it is that it is presented as a Wolf thing, whereas I believe it should be general Astartes equipment. I have a general aversion to individual Chapters gaining unique vehicles (though under such circumstances admittedly makes it slightly more sensible to give them their own codex), but admittedly I'm not even sure I like new stuff being introduced retroactively in general. Either way, I feel that designwise the model is sound.
But a SW version of this transport could simply be a variant of it, with a dozen large, round shields tacked onto each side (bearing the markings of the Great Company and/or the individual warriors inside) and perhaps a modified prow and/or rear to convey that longboat vibe they were at least partially going for with the hoversled. But instead ... they got Santa.

"Murderfang" has already been discussed at length, I don't think I have anything to add here.


To think there are still people wondering why I do not want GW to design new SoB minis ...

Really?

I personally think how good the models are depends on what faction they're doing these days. If it's anything with space marines they'll generally have poorly done models and in my opinion tau too (and maybe daemons). However if you go into things like eldar and dark eldar or the stormtroopers from the imperial guard or similar then you see more of the good side. So yeah GW knows how to design elves and elvish like groups but then you get the marines and tau which are just terrible.

I really don't know how they'd handle sisters but I feel like they have potential if you go for the gothic stuff.

In all fairness I have to wonder if space marines were ever really that good in many designs. I mean rhinos are basically giant shoe-box transports. Also in dawn of war 2 terminators often looked like slowed babies with small heads without their helmets on esp. when they fell over (and presumably couldn't get back up after they fell over like the bender/turtle episode of futurama).

Why is everyone complaining about Logan's chariot? I think it looks pretty nice painted up...

GW needs to realizse that Vikings in Space =/= Vikings

Imagine in Firefly the ships were shaped like giant horses and wagons to fit with the space western theme it would looking freaking STUPID

thats what I see in the new SW models

 Breotan wrote:
Why is everyone complaining about Logan's chariot? I think it looks pretty nice painted up...

Spoiler:

Truly a vehicle worthy of a Chapter Master.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Why is everyone complaining about Logan's chariot? I think it looks pretty nice painted up...

Spoiler:

Truly a vehicle worthy of a Chapter Master.

Somehow I think that would have been an improvement. Either way I'm glad I never started collecting wolves. It's like the rest of the gaming world is getting into cleaner lines and more realistic story telling while GW has for some reason decided to go all 1980s on us.

If you came to 40K for realism, I got some bad news for you...

So one thing I can't help but notice is the real lack of enthusiasm about the Space Wolf release.

For just about every other release there were commission studios putting out a set within the first few days and countless threads either loving or hating it.

I just now realized that Space Wolves were released. There isn't even the usual "where is it in the tier" threads or talks about what's the new build and the "wait a few weeks/months until we can figure it out."

I really consider that a bad sign. It really feels like the apathy is setting in.

Also, there is only so far suspension of disbelief goes. A landspeeder? Fine. Flying dumpster? No. Bathtub pulled by Battle Huskies? No. Hell no.
Seriously, they could put anti-grav on anything and have wolves pull it. Would anyone defend it if was a couch or a book shelf pulled by wolves? No!

If it were the Lazy Marines, then I might accept a couch or a hover-lounger.

But, let's face it, GW had pretty much painted themselves into a corner with the Space Wolves. Either they continued with the Wolfy McWolfersonWolfWolf of Wolverton-North-of-Wolfhampton, Lord of Wolves, Winter, Ice, Wolves, Wolves and Wolves.... which, let's face it, has been stupid for 15 goddamn years now, or they got off the wolf thing and went hard the other way with the Vikings In Spaaaaaace theme... which they did.

Had they not gone this far with it, the complaints (valid as they may be) would be that the army was now "too vanilla" or "too bland". The only way to really fix the problem would be to not have gone down the WolfyWolfwolf route in the first place, but you can't change the past.

I don't mind the look of Viking in space. The problem is the execution.

I'm fine with the battle bathtub in concept. Take away the wolves and put on some of those jet engines they're so fond of slapping onto everything under the sun.

An assault aircraft? That's fine. The model is mostly salvageable. Just give it slightly larger wings, move the secondary jet engines to the front, and make the front look slightly more aerodynamic.

Murderfang has a lot of potential. A dred that's lost it's mind inside it's walking tomb, but the warrior is too much a legend to let go or how it would be bad for him to die outside of combat so they keep him around.

They didn't paint themselves into a corner. There are plenty of options they could have taken, but that's what you get for hiring people based on how much you like hanging out with them.

If they did an assault aircraft, people would have said that it wasn't wolfy enough or Viking enough.

Murderfang is just stupid all around, you only put honored Marines into dreadnoughts, not mutated freaks. Those you give the Emperor's Mercy and call it a day.

 Psienesis wrote:
If they did an assault aircraft, people would have said that it wasn't wolfy enough or Viking enough.

I don't think I've ever seen a single SW player honestly say "There aren't enough wolves in this"
For the viking thing, it just needs some some aesthetic bits. I think it's easy enough to do with the current model as the basis and just a bit of work.

Those you give the Emperor's Mercy and call it a day.

Space Viking. What if he was a legend and they truly believed he should only meet his end in battle? I mean how would you pass on the story of Bjorn if it ends with him dying after someone forgot to plug in his Dred? There is enough with the core concept that it could work. Make it about the final chapter of a warrior's story where his brothers do all they can to help him get the ending he deserves.

I don't think I've ever seen a single SW player honestly say "There aren't enough wolves in this"
For the viking thing, it just needs some some aesthetic bits. I think it's easy enough to do with the current model as the basis and just a bit of work.

That's because it's been WTV (Wolf TV. All Wolves, All the time) for 15 years now. GW hasn't tried to do an "understated" model for the SW. They have, in fact, steadily increased the presence of Wolfiness in the Wolves. They look at a SW in the studio and they say, "Hmmm... let's wolfify that by 10% before we launch it".

I'm just glad they didn't go the Voltron route. 5 wolves combined into one for one wolfy wolf that is more than twice as wolfy as two wolves taped together with wolf glue.

LOL, Voltron Foce led by Santa Clause. That would be icing on the cake.

flamingkillamajig wrote:I personally think how good the models are depends on what faction they're doing these days. If it's anything with space marines they'll generally have poorly done models and in my opinion tau too (and maybe daemons). However if you go into things like eldar and dark eldar or the stormtroopers from the imperial guard or similar then you see more of the good side. So yeah GW knows how to design elves and elvish like groups but then you get the marines and tau which are just terrible.

Hmm. Well, obviously it is also a matter of preferences - but I have to say, I don't actually like the new Dark Eldar a lot either. They have some amazing models, but all in all I still consider it a step back in terms of design (not quality). The new Storm Troopers? Tbh, I think they suck. They look like medieval mercenaries given a laser, which would be a totally appropriate look for some crazy feudal world's Imperial Guard regiment, but in my opinion unsuitable for elite ST. I prefer their old armour as it was way more practical. And don't get me started on the Taurox and its silly mini tracks.

I dunno, looking at all those recent releases ... it feels as if the studio is pushing the visual aesthetic of the setting further away from a somewhat more grounded environment where sci-fi and gothic mingle, and way into the realm of fantasy. It's getting to a point where you wouldn't even notice if someone was proxying a WHFB army for a 40k game, just because everyone runs around in gaudy clothes with a ton of medieval bling. It's hard to put my finger on it, but I feel like they've overshot the mark, if you get my drift. By a large margin. And right now, this seems to be happening across all armies. It's like they are looking at each army and brainstorm about how they could possibly emphasise whatever makes it stand out already even more. And to me, it just ends up looking extremely awkward, to a point where I cannot take it serious* anymore.

(*: referring to me thinking "yep, I can imagine this being a proper setting")

Mark my words: 5-10 years from now, we're going to have Space Marines riding dragons (because knights), Eldar with transparent unicorn mounts (yep, like that), and Cadians whose lasguns look like wooden flintlock muskets. With ramrods.

Savageconvoy wrote:I'm just glad they didn't go the Wolftron route.

Fixed that for you

seriously how could you miss out on this one

@Lynata: You dislike the current dark eldar?! Aside from the mini transport with big guns that's looks too eldar to be dark eldar I thought they looked fantastic. They needed an update badly at the time or they would've been what sisters are now. I'm sorry for disagreeing here but I totally love dark eldar and the new stormtrooper army. My major complaint is the stormtroopers could use a bigger model selection so they could be a decent army to take on their own. In my eyes they look more like a previous army from a world war in a transport. Most likely it's a german look so you should be familiar seeing as you are a german. I mean don't get me wrong I was incensed at first about the cost for the stormtroopers being in plastic till I realized they actually have way more options in the box and you can throw out more special weapons on them purely from the box alone. I also got used to the aesthetic after some time. For me some units aren't love at first sight because it's not how I imagine them in my head but then they get to me like the storm talon (assault helicopter for space marines). I personally didn't see the point of it considering they already had landspeeders but it looks kind of cool.

Then again I've been out of 40k for far too long. I was leaving back when mat ward started becoming a problem and didn't really check it out much beyond that. I still liked the old version of the necrons though the transport necrons got at the time seemed cool. Who knows what they'll do with the next book. Perhaps they'll fix the aesthetic or story of necrons somewhat. Remember when they were terminator robots? Both necrons and grey knights needed an update back then esp. grey knights and their inability to handle heavy armor outside of using their own heavy armor to destroy it and having less options than space marines. Sorry I'm just remembering way back in the past. I didn't read the whole grey knights book when it came out but I remember thinking the bit on kaldor draigo was actually kind of funny if over-the-top. Just seemed funny daemons were practically afraid of him. The part with the carving his name into a greater daemon's heart (or daemon prince or something) was esp. funny to me if only because he basically wrote 'draigo's b*tch' on it. Perhaps I just have a strange sense of humor.

There's a fine line of what fits and what doesn't in your art choice. Many folks (I'm not one of them) that can look at Space Marine flyers, think "Anti-Grav" and be okay. However, when we see races with better anti-grav technologies, like the Eldar and Dark Eldar, they still produce ships that give the aesthetic belief they can actually fly or be space faring. The new Space Wolves gun ship/transport ship is so obviously off visually that it's jarring for folks. The disbelief is no longer suspended. This applies to Murderfang and El Lobo Malo and his barge speeder.

I'm all for the insanity and stupidity, but more so in the greater and greater actions that heroes can perform. The Hunter/Stalker was a great tank variant addition to the Space Marines as it fortified the known Rhino chassis (12/12/10 vs. 11/11/10) and added in the visual queues that it was a deployed and fixed weapon battery that shot down flyers. Was it shiny like Logan's Barge? No, but it seemed to fit. Dreadknights and Centurions still get made fun of for their absurdity, while new Tau Broadises, Flyers, and even Riptides fit the aesthetic. As does the Wraithknight. Rules aside on the latter, it's a perfect gateway drug to the Titans, but I prefer my 28mm games to not go "Epic".

The suspension of disbelief is just being severed with models like the SW release. The Orks have a more realistic flyer, the goofball joke army, than Space Marines. The Forgeworld Imperial Navy flyers take queues from WWII to Korea/Vietnam aircraft stylings and put a future spin on them, making them believable yet new and desirable.

Nothing about a floating dumpster that has a terrible center of gravity positioning, stubby wings, and the strong appearance of not enough power to fly can suspend itself in the air let alone my ability to believe that the thing actually goes zoom and makes with the pew pew. Add-on stuff like "Freeze Rays" and "Alien Ice Claws" and you're just in for a forehead slapping good time.

^^ everything I want to say on the topic Kbob. Great examples of what fits and what doesn't - and why.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
2.Murderfang - Nothing really bad about this one, bar one niggling point - it's got a head. At no point, have I ever seen a dreadnought with a real, bearded, screaming head - usually that sort of thing is left for Helbrutes. I feel it makes the dreadnought too human, instead of half dead, dreaming warrior. What makes it worse is GW's description that it roams the Fenris wastes - like it's some kind of feral beast, instead of a noble fallen warrior. I know Space Wolves are wild, but they do have some civilised aspects.

Well I guess pobody's nerfect.