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So, I've been away from Dakka for a couple of months now, with work getting in the way of any real progress on my models (Salamanders 2nd Company). I decided that, I'd bide my time, and come back to Dakka when I've got something to show for it, which I will pretty soon. But... I really felt the need to ask what the hell GW has done to the Space Wolves? Now don't get me wrong, I think the quality of sculpts are good, but I'm horrified by the designs. So I wanted to ask, having been away for awhile, what you Dakkanauts think of them:

1. First up, the Stormwolf/fang Gunship - What the hell is this thing. It's essentially half a Caestus Assault Ram strapped to the arse end of a Stormtalon. Now, I could kinda legitimise the Storm Talon aerodynamically - after all, the Apache Gunship is similar in looks, and it still flies. But the Stormwolf shows absolutely no originality. Somebody has just cut a Caestus down the middle, and Space-Wolved it up. Fluff wise, I can see that it works, if it uses the same anti-grav principles of a Land Speeder - but I just get the feeling we are creeping ever more closer to 'flying Land Raiders'. Sorry GW, not a fan.

2.Murderfang - Nothing really bad about this one, bar one niggling point - it's got a head. At no point, have I ever seen a dreadnought with a real, bearded, screaming head - usually that sort of thing is left for Helbrutes. I feel it makes the dreadnought too human, instead of half dead, dreaming warrior. What makes it worse is GW's description that it roams the Fenris wastes - like it's some kind of feral beast, instead of a noble fallen warrior. I know Space Wolves are wild, but they do have some civilised aspects.

3. Finally, whats up with Logan Grimnar's hover chariot - it's ridiculous. It's a fething Space. Longboat. Chariot. That's just mad - it makes next to no sense. I don't even have the words to describe my horror at seeing this. Oh yeah, and it's drawn by wolves - that's just plain stupid. Again, not a fan. Why couldn't you give them a new tank, or something feasible - not a wolf drawn chariot.

I'd like to hear what anybody else thinks of these models and please feel free to correct me, put me in my place and above all try to change my mind, because up until now I liked the SW - now they just feel... wrong.

They've been bad enough to make me and many other long time SW players start looking at other armies to work on. I can't even take my army seriously any more.

That good eh? I'd always taken GW's design with a pinch of salt - I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for the first two. But Grimnar on a Chariot tipped it for me.

40k Imperium is WW2 in space. The flyer can be rationalized with this:


There's no redeeming the naming of 2. or the chariot though.

This is kinda an odd thread because style and look is very much down to personal preference, but I'll give it a go:

1)
This is actually one of the most "40k" flyers I've seen in years. It perfectly matches the aesthetics of the SM vehicles and older flyer models, and personally I love it.

2)
That is actually on purpose. Murderfang isn't a regular dread, it's some kind of twisted (probably Chaos tainted) dreadnought monster that roams the frozen wastes of Fenris and they only release him in the most dire circumstances - so not a regular dread

3)
Awesome without his chariot! And... Well... I can see what they where trying to do, and it almost succeded. But not a perfect exectuion of the viking long boat in Space

I'm not even sure if point 1 can be rationalised - at least the landing craft is designed with the express purpose of crashing itself against a beach - it isn't designed for extended operation. But that flyer is intended to be operated at high speeds - Obviously nobody at GW is remotely clued up in the principles of air resistance or stability 'Just anti-grav it and shove it out the door ASAP' seems to be the norm.

EDIT: Admittedly your right Gorlack - it is very dependant upon personal taste, and I admit that the Stormwolf can probably, in a round about way, be rationalised - sort of like a SW Land Speeder Tempest. But a Chaos Dread and a Hover Chariot drawn by wolves is slightly off the mark even for Space Wolves, IMHO.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
That good eh? I'd always taken GW's design with a pinch of salt - I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for the first two. But Grimnar on a Chariot tipped it for me.

This! When I saw #1, I thought "eh, at least we have a flyer with good rules and it looks like a caestus or WW2 amphibious landing craft". Then I saw #2 and thought "really? A CC dread?! Dreads suck and close combat isn't really how you win in 7th. After we complained about wolf everything, they give him murder claws and murder lust?! Whatever, I just saved $50". My reaction when I saw Logan was "well, now I have an excuse to start that eldar army I've always thought about because this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I don't care if it has 57 st10 rending attacks, it's stupid!"

Agree with OP, just some awful, awful design choices. Yes, we get that the SW are supposed to be vikings in space - do we really need even more ridiculous models to ram this down our throats even more?

1. I agree on this one. The flyer looks to me like a box with various Marine bits stuck on. Not a fan, but at least they didn't make it a Viking longship with wings.

2. I don't mind the new Dreadnought models, though I agree that a bare-head is daft (I'm pretty sure they know what snipers are in the 41st Millennium). However, that can be fixed with a head swap. So as models, they're no problem, though the fluff makes Murderfang sound like a Chaos Dread that the Space Wolves kept as a pet.

3. Logan on foot: no problems there. I think I'd have liked this model more if they'd just gone ahead and made a proper wheeled chariot, even if it was pulled by a pack of wolves. It would have been so over the top I think it would have had charm. As it is we get a flying carnival float thing.

 Yonan wrote:
40k Imperium is WW2 in space. The flyer can be rationalized with this:.

Yeah, if you like rationalising an aerial vehicle with a boat, coz this...



totally looks the same as this...

It just worries me that the rest of Space Marines may go this way. If Salamanders get their own line (highly doubt it), will we start seeing Lizardmen or Salamanders riding dragons? *Shudders*

I'll buy the chariot for Logan on foot and kit bash the chariot for fantasy.

I don't think kit bashing the chariot would be that hard for a WOC army. Just cut off the obvious sci-fi bits add some spikes, a few impaled bodies, some wheels, and a load of skulls and you'd have a pimp ride.

As for the flyer... the transport variant is kinda growing on me. I think with a little custom work it would look pretty ace. However shouldn't the pilot be a tech marine?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
It just worries me that the rest of Space Marines may go this way. If Salamanders get their own line (highly doubt it), will we start seeing Lizardmen or Salamanders riding dragons? *Shudders*

You have drunk deep from the well of GW wisdom and it has opened yours eyes.

@Ma55ter_fett - Up until now, not many of GW's designs have left me worried, but if they can do Space Vikings to the Death, they can do Space Dragonslayers to the death, and then I'm in trouble.

I think all three models look quite awesome.
The flyer is my favourite Space Marine flyer so far.
The sled looks good.
The head on the Dreadnaught really isn't such a big deal.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
40k Imperium is WW2 in space. The flyer can be rationalized with this:.

Yeah, if you like rationalising an aerial vehicle with a boat, coz this...

Neither of those are transports though. If you google transport plane you get much closer for example this is pretty damn blocky:

I'm not defending it, I'm just saying that I can sort of see how/why. Even the Imperium should have some attempt at aerodynamics and deflecting angles.

It's always kinda been GW's thing to have a cool concept and then completely botch the execution, but things have just gone too far.

I'm a fan of all three of the new releases, from an aesthetic, fulff and gameplay point of view. This is GW's most solid release in quite some time, maybe since the GK.

I don't feel so bad about this anymore...



So thank you my wolfy brothers for not letting my army be the laughing stock of the 40k universe anymore.

Although I really do feel for the Blood Angels who will probably get a hero in a hearse drawn by vampire bats

 Flippa wrote:
I don't feel so bad about this anymore...

Maybe GW is just a sociological experiment. To see how far peoples perceptions can be warped.

ROFL!!

Flippa, now thats funny.. almost spilled my coffee.


I was kind of upset at first that my beloved white scars and bikes in general got the royal treatment rules wise, but not figurewise. Which basically just allowed everyone and their mom's dog to start proxying their random army as my favorite chapter... but now that ive seen the last few SM chapter releases, i shudder at what my iconic chapter-defining units would be... im sure it would have been something akin to "cyborg horse command squad" or "quadrupedal dreadnaught" or other such nonsense.

I just think that it's funny that other than the exception of the Dark Angels monstrosity, when the Astartes look for a gunship/flyer platform, they completely forget that they have Land Speeders. I mean, Forgeworld has had a Land Speeder model that completely fulfills the Storm Talon role (so exactly that it would be a proxy) for more than a friggin' decade.

Oh, and why are Grimnar's wolves pulling in different directions?

The stormwolf looks really good in person. I own a caestus too and they look awesome together. I dont really understand why people dont like it, but hey thats personal taste i think. The new dreads are dreads ... jeah ... not much to say about that.

Santa Logan will be replaced by a scibor bear rider on an appropriate base in my army. So i dont really care how gws version looks.

 Mywik wrote:
The stormwolf looks really good in person. I own a caestus too and they look awesome together. I dont really understand why people dont like it, but hey thats personal taste i think.

It is just personal taste I know, but the reason I don't like it is because it looks like an assault ram, especially a space born assault ram, not an airborne gunship that manoeuvres around like your typical 40k flyer.

It just looks like a solid object to be thrown at an enemy, not an agile aircraft.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


It just looks like a solid object to be thrown at an enemy, not an agile aircraft.

I think this is what makes it fit so perfectly for space wolves. Its what you'd expect from space vikings. A rocket that just crashes straight into your opponents lines releasing a suicidal group of drunk brawlers that were its cargo. The same reason why i bought my caestus.

 Mywik wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


It just looks like a solid object to be thrown at an enemy, not an agile aircraft.

I think this is what makes it fit so perfectly for space wolves. Its what you'd expect from space vikings. A rocket that just crashes straight into your opponents lines releasing a suicidal group of drunk brawlers that were its cargo. The same reason why i bought my caestus.

Then why is it agile aircraft rules wise?

 Mywik wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


It just looks like a solid object to be thrown at an enemy, not an agile aircraft.

I think this is what makes it fit so perfectly for space wolves. Its what you'd expect from space vikings. A rocket that just crashes straight into your opponents lines releasing a suicidal group of drunk brawlers that were its cargo. The same reason why i bought my caestus.

If the behaviour on the table top was more like that, I'd probably like it more. Since it's a flyer I'm really not liking it.

If it had rules which basically amounted to it being a missile loaded with Space Wolves designed to crash through enemy lines, I'd be more down with it.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


It just looks like a solid object to be thrown at an enemy, not an agile aircraft.

I think this is what makes it fit so perfectly for space wolves. Its what you'd expect from space vikings. A rocket that just crashes straight into your opponents lines releasing a suicidal group of drunk brawlers that were its cargo. The same reason why i bought my caestus.

Then why is it agile aircraft rules wise?

Ask someone writing the rules. I thought we are talking mainly aesthetics here. Its basically the same engine scheme as a landspeeder but bigger (antigrav to float and an engine to move forwards) so why is no one complaining about landspeeders? People will get used to it and like with most models it looks better in person.

 Mywik wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


It just looks like a solid object to be thrown at an enemy, not an agile aircraft.

I think this is what makes it fit so perfectly for space wolves. Its what you'd expect from space vikings. A rocket that just crashes straight into your opponents lines releasing a suicidal group of drunk brawlers that were its cargo. The same reason why i bought my caestus.

Then why is it agile aircraft rules wise?

Ask someone writing the rules. I thought we are talking mainly aesthetics here. Its basically the same engine scheme as a landspeeder but bigger (antigrav to float and an engine to move forwards) so why is no one complaining about landspeeders? People will get used to it and like with most models it looks better in person.

Because it looks even worse than land speeders, and FWIW, yes, I prefer the 2nd edition land speeder to the current one.

Because it looks even worse than land speeders, and FWIW, yes, I prefer the 2nd edition land speeder to the current one.

Thats what your personal taste says. Not much to do about it except to look for alternative models to represent it. There is a gak ton out there. So nothing really to discuss here since i cant deny your personal taste . Moving on.