What's up with the new SW models!?!

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**AllSeeingSkink**

Well this discussion is "What's up with the new SW models"... so yeah, it's all about personal taste. I'm sure there's some sick puppy out there who actually thinks this is a good model:

**Mywik**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Well this discussion is "What's up with the new SW models"... so yeah, it's all about personal taste. I'm sure there's some sick puppy out there who actually thinks this is a good model:

Jeah. This model has a lot to do with the models we're discussing here.

You say "it doesnt look good" i say "it does look good". So tell me what else could be the reasoning for this if its not personal taste? What are you trying to accomplish? Tell people they should also think its ugly or look for people that support your position?

Both is pointless since it all comes down to "drumroll" personal taste!

But dont let me rain on your parade. Have fun!

**AllSeeingSkink**

Mywik wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Well this discussion is "What's up with the new SW models"... so yeah, it's all about personal taste. I'm sure there's some sick puppy out there who actually thinks this is a good model:

Jeah. This model has a lot to do with the models we're discussing here.

You say "it doesnt look good" i say "it does look good". So tell me what else could be the reasoning for this if its not personal taste? What are you trying to accomplish? Tell people they should also think its ugly or look for people that support your position?

Both is pointless since it all comes down to "drumroll" personal taste!

But dont let me rain on your parade. Have fun!

All I'm here to do is discuss the why's and how's of why I don't like it. I was just pointing out that "It's personal opinion" is an obvious given as at the end of the day that's what it comes down to... doesn't stop us from discussing WHY we don't like it otherwise we might as well not have the discussion at all or just post a poll "do you like? yes/no/don't care".

It's not pointless to discuss why we do or don't like things.

My bringing up Nagash was simply my hyperbole to your implying that there's nothing else to discuss on the matter because it's personal opinion.

No need to get yer knickers in a twist, if you want to "move on" from the discussion you can either bring up something new that's still on the topic of the thread or just stop posting in the thread.

**H.B.M.C.**

The sled is silly, and Grimnar needs to lose that long cable pronto. The head on Murderface is probably one of the daftest choices made by GW in recent times. The flyer is sort of 50/50. The transport one, where they jump out the front, is fine. As already mentioned it's the most Space Marine-y flyer GW has put out. The gunship one, that has a big fixed cannonly mounted at the front and is a transport? That doesn't make any sense.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm sure there's some sick puppy out there who actually thinks this is a good model: [snip Nagash]

Even the guy who made that model knew it was bad.

**gianlucafiorentini123**

Agree with you OP, though I've come around a bit on the transport version of the flyer and I'm thinking of picking one up to convert for my BL. But the other two are just awful looking IMO. The thing that shocked most though was how they got in general pretty positive reviews.

**Fabio Bile**

I don't think your forum thread about science-fantasy wargame models has enough practical use!

Anyway.

First, I'm not even bothering with the names anymore. "Grimdark" has become an appropriate term for 40K in a whole new way. Used to be the names in 40K evoked myth and history, now it's two words jammed together. It's turning into an edgycool blur to me.

And second I think the Space Marines (at least the main Chapters) are pretty much done at this point. But it's like a movie series where the studio demands more instalments, whether they make creative sense or not.

I think the Space Wolves flyer is the best one yet, in that at least it has a decent shape, a silhouette to it. Okay, it's a box, but still. Even the excessive amount of guns is integrated into the design better. At this rate the next Marine flyer will almost look okay.

I've never been a fan of Dreadnoughts, so whatever, there's another one. It being a multi-purpose kit it's almost inevitable one variant will be derpy. At least it'll give people bits for conversions.

Grimnar himself is a bit overblinged to my tastes, but so's the rest of 40K been for the past decade. The boat-chariot is the sort of thing that might be excused with the rule of cool, except that it isn't cool. Like the wolf-cavalry it's hamfisted in both concept and execution.

**Mywik**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Mywik wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Well this discussion is "What's up with the new SW models"... so yeah, it's all about personal taste. I'm sure there's some sick puppy out there who actually thinks this is a good model:

Jeah. This model has a lot to do with the models we're discussing here.

You say "it doesnt look good" i say "it does look good". So tell me what else could be the reasoning for this if its not personal taste? What are you trying to accomplish? Tell people they should also think its ugly or look for people that support your position?

Both is pointless since it all comes down to "drumroll" personal taste!

But dont let me rain on your parade. Have fun!

All I'm here to do is discuss the why's and how's of why I don't like it. I was just pointing out that "It's personal opinion" is an obvious given as at the end of the day that's what it comes down to... doesn't stop us from discussing WHY we don't like it otherwise we might as well not have the discussion at all or just post a poll "do you like? yes/no/don't care".

It's not pointless to discuss why we do or don't like things.

My bringing up Nagash was simply my hyperbole to your implying that there's nothing else to discuss on the matter because it's personal opinion.

No need to get yer knickers in a twist, if you want to "move on" from the discussion you can either bring up something new that's still on the topic of the thread or just stop posting in the thread.

Okay. So what exactly are you looking for?
Someone that makes you more safe in your opinion by agreeing with your personal opinion? Oh yes this thread (and most others about subjective opinions) is indeed quite pointless. I'd understand if you were looking for alternative models to stand in for the stormwolf that doesnt appeal to you but this is just complaining for complainings sake.

Here look at this model for example. I was considering buying it in case the space wolf flyer wouldnt appeal to me (and since it was a 100% chance there would be one released). http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=315 more realistic shape and engine setup. At least i like that one. Its also half the price.

**Fabio Bile**

^Seems pretty clear to me the guy just wants to talk about some 40K miniatures. That's the end goal. And he's come to the right place for that.

Meanwhile, what exactly are you looking for, if not an argument for argument's sake?

**Rysaer**

The designs of all of these SW models are hilariously bad.

I genuinely hope that GW never revisits the Dark Angels models after this, I'd hate for this to happen to my army.

I'd assume that GW are trying to cater for a younger audience by over emphasising themes so younger people can understand/relate better.

Also Logan's Space-Hover-Boat-Chariot-Murder-Wolf-Sled would make a great conversion for Dwarf players.

**Mywik**

Fabio Bile wrote:
^Seems pretty clear to me the guy just wants to talk about some 40K miniatures. That's the end goal. And he's come to the right place for that.

Meanwhile, what exactly are you looking for, if not an argument for argument's sake?

Thats what im doing. If you'd read my post till the end you wouldve seen that.

Also the irony is strong in your post.

**Restless Zeal**

In my opinion. If they wanted to do a far fetched Wolf chariot, they should have made it as a FA unit with a couple of Space wolves on it instead of Logan. I'm not saying I would buy it but I'm sure people would buy a individual Logan model.

**Veteran Sergeant**

Him pointing out that you're arguing just to argue isn't ironic... I think you've been misled as to what irony means at some point in the past.

Anyhow, back on topic, yes, the new Space Wolves models are awful piled on top of awful. I'll grant that the giant flying clown shoe is going to be a matter of taste. But the Logansled is... good lord. There are both no words, and too many words, at the same paradoxical time, for how bad it is.

From conceptually: Space Wolves are supposed to be Space Marines with a nordic flavor, not vikings with a Space Marine flavor. And that's before getting into just how stupid a clunky chariot pulled by two animals on a battlefield with high capacity, high rate of fire direct-fire weapons is.

To the execution: Seriously, the tethers on the wolves aren't even the same length.

Dreadnought with a head... Freeze rays. Good fething lord, freeze rays. It's like they just decided to just dive headfirst off the cliff into "bad cartoon" land with that one.

The Space Wolves are irrevocably damaged, and will never, ever be cool, ever again.

Ever.

**Restless Zeal**

What happens if his wolves get killed is he left floating in his little chariot? I hope he has oars

**lliu**

I don't know, but I like the models. They look cool

**Mywik**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Him pointing out that you're arguing just to argue isn't ironic... I think you've been misled as to what irony means at some point in the past.

Jeah maybe i was just sick of the fact a thread like this pops up for every single model released and since i like the model i was getting kinda anal about it. So sorry guys. Im out.

**Wilytank**

Toofast wrote:
They've been bad enough to make me and many other long time SW players start looking at other armies to work on. I can't even take my army seriously any more.

Guys! These new models that I can choose not to buy, assemble and use make me ashamed of the models already in my collection! I need to commit ritual suicide now!

**MWHistorian**

Vikings didn't use charriots. :(

**Veteran Sergeant**

Wilytank wrote:
Toofast wrote:
They've been bad enough to make me and many other long time SW players start looking at other armies to work on. I can't even take my army seriously any more.

Guys! These new models that I can choose not to buy, assemble and use make me ashamed of the models already in my collection! I need to commit ritual suicide now!

This argument makes no sense.

For a lot of people, the overall aesthetic of the universe plays a part in the enjoyment,

Also, if the best unit for your army also happen to be the absolute worst, then the tradeoff is now your army sucks because you don't want to use all the atrociously ugly ones you need to to be competitive.

**Jayden63**

MWHistorian wrote:
Vikings didn't use charriots. :(

No, but their gods did.

I can understand if someone doesn't like the look of the model. Its a pure personal opinion. However, as for the names and the fluff, you do realize that unless its a game mechanic there is nothing on the page that matters and you can change everything to be what you want it to be.

As for the models, I like the flyer. Its everything that an SM ship should be. Yeah, it looks like it should be in space instead of the atmosphere, but it totally fits with the SM ascetics. However, very few "flyers" look like they can actually fly at any speed in the atmosphere. The dread I love. Lots of bits, lots of bling that is optional if you don't want to use it. The weapons all look cool and it might be fun to mix and match if your more of a collector than player.

The chariot - well, totally subjective. I rather like it, it looks like something that might just show up in 40K. It has grav tech, it has thrusters, it is what it is. I personally see the wolves more as body guards than propulsion and if I ever got one thats how I'd model it. The Grimnar model looks pretty good, enough bling for a chapter master and a big axe to chop heads with. And while I agree with many that a drawn chariot has no place on a battlefield of the 40th mellinium, so do so many other GW models its its own comic so its just one more to add to the list.

**Tamwulf**

I have discovered the key to GW's 40K design process.

Good Looking model gets bad rules so it will sell.

Bad looking model gets awesome rules so it will sell.

I can't remember the last time GW made a good looking model that had awesome rules.

And of course, any new model starts with the "+$50 markup" and goes from there for pricing.

1. When you look at the side profile of the Storm<noun>, add a neck with dog collar, floppy ears, and lolling tongue, it looks great.
2. Distorted, weird looking head on a dread is just... whatever. Creepy. "Old uncle talks about how sexy your daughter is" creepy. Close combat dreadnaught in 7th ed? LOL
3. I use to think it was absurd that a 10', genetically modified super soldier in power armor would ride a motorcycle into combat when there is anti-gravity, lasers, vortex weapons, et al. Then we got said 10' genetically modified super soldiers in power armor riding wolves into combat. Eyebrow raised. Now we have this unholy abomination- a 10' genetically modified super soldier in power armor in a grav-chariot being pulled by wolves. Yeah... ski-ramp, water skies, shark...

**Vaktathi**

Warpig1815 wrote:
So, I've been away from Dakka for a couple of months now, with work getting in the way of any real progress on my models (Salamanders 2nd Company). I decided that, I'd bide my time, and come back to Dakka when I've got something to show for it, which I will pretty soon. But... I really felt the need to ask what the hell GW has done to the Space Wolves? Now don't get me wrong, I think the quality of sculpts are good, but I'm horrified by the designs. So I wanted to ask, having been away for awhile, what you Dakkanauts think of them:

1. First up, the Stormwolf/fang Gunship - What the hell is this thing. It's essentially half a Caestus Assault Ram strapped to the arse end of a Stormtalon. Now, I could kinda legitimise the Storm Talon aerodynamically - after all, the Apache Gunship is similar in looks, and it still flies. But the Stormwolf shows absolutely no originality. Somebody has just cut a Caestus down the middle, and Space-Wolved it up. Fluff wise, I can see that it works, if it uses the same anti-grav principles of a Land Speeder - but I just get the feeling we are creeping ever more closer to 'flying Land Raiders'. Sorry GW, not a fan.

2.Murderfang - Nothing really bad about this one, bar one niggling point - it's got a head. At no point, have I ever seen a dreadnought with a real, bearded, screaming head - usually that sort of thing is left for Helbrutes. I feel it makes the dreadnought too human, instead of half dead, dreaming warrior. What makes it worse is GW's description that it roams the Fenris wastes - like it's some kind of feral beast, instead of a noble fallen warrior. I know Space Wolves are wild, but they do have some civilised aspects.

3. Finally, whats up with Logan Grimnar's hover chariot - it's ridiculous. It's a fething Space. Longboat. Chariot. That's just mad - it makes next to no sense. I don't even have the words to describe my horror at seeing this. Oh yeah, and it's drawn by wolves - that's just plain stupid. Again, not a fan. Why couldn't you give them a new tank, or something feasible - not a wolf drawn chariot.

I'd like to hear what anybody else thinks of these models and please feel free to correct me, put me in my place and above all try to change my mind, because up until now I liked the SW - now they just feel... wrong.

GW did the same thing with Thunderwolf Cavalry with the last release.

The sculpts are technically great from a modelling perspective, but thematically come right out of a 12 year old's internet fanfic, or some late night 4chan parody thread.

As someone in another thread stated, the Space Wolves are supposed to be Space Marines with a Viking flavor, not Werewolf Vikings with a Space Marine theme.

Ultimately however, Space Wolves as a whole have been getting progressively more ridiculous over the last few years. Their Codex fluff and naming conventions have been routinely awful, their Black Library fiction makes them come off as hypocritical two-faced jerkwads, and ultimately they try to be too many mutually contradictory things at the same time. They can't decide if they want to be dark and brooding executioners who are completely ruthless while still being total party bros who look out for the little guy, subtle masterful tacticians that lull their enemies into thinking they're bloodthirsty berzerkers, but still actually being bloodthirsty berzerkers, feral super soldiers who fire artillery by smell, advanced and disciplined super soldiers with advanced equipment and excellent marksmen, actual werewolves, pyskers that don't think their powers come from the warp, etc ad nauseum.

They've jumped their own shark, the newest models are just the icing on the cake at this point.

**TheKbob**

The Tau flyer is probably one of the best looking flyers, and most realistic in it's ability to do so outside of the Eldar/Dark Eldar, but has piss poor rules. As do the Eldar/Dark Eldar flyers.

Flying bricks? Good rules!

Seems legit.

**Wilytank**

Tamwulf wrote:

I can't remember the last time GW made a good looking model that had awesome rules.

Spoiler:

**Tehjonny**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Well this discussion is "What's up with the new SW models"... so yeah, it's all about personal taste. I'm sure there's some sick puppy out there who actually thinks this is a good model:

I see you've got a leak of the new Ragnar model.

**Mr Morden**

I can't remember the last time GW made a good looking model that had awesome rules.

Imperial Knight? Just pure win
Eldar Wraith Knight? Same

I really like the new SW flyers - they look just as I would expect a Space Marine flyer to loo - not the direness of the recent efforts.... but its all a matter of taste like most things. Mine is being built and painted - looking forward to getting it back

I don't like the Longship Chariot - its not one thing or another for me.....

The Dreadnoughts are ok - but prefer not to have heads poking out

**Khaine's Wrath**

I love so much about this hobby. But most of all I love the people that play it. We had a series on telly a while back in England called "grumpy old men", and almost everyone on this forum could've probably starred in it. I mean seriously, some people are never ever happy.

Personally, I love all the new models. "Oh god, hang the heretic!" It's nice to look entirely different to every other chapter. It's nice to have a completely different back story to every other chapter. And it's nice to have access to models no one else will get.

As for the models themselves....

I think the flier is the nicest marine flier released so far. I'm quite happy with it. I probably won't get one just yet, but I have no problems with it at all, and feel it's quite wolfy. As for the "freeze rays" funny how people whinge about them. Again, at least they're individual. No complained about grav weapons, even with as ridiculous as they are...but then they are pretty deadly, why would people complain when they're intending to use as many as they can.

The dread....there is 3 I'm a box. And it states it's interchangeable with other marine dreads. So, if you don't like the head.....just use another! It's amazing how modelling works? It's almost like they're expecting you to use your imagination, god forbid.

And Logan....his model went up for sale, and I instantly pre ordered it. What a stunning model. Whether you think the concept is stupid or not, the model is amazing, and I personally think it will stand out a very impressive centre piece in any army. If you don't like it....don't buy it.

I'd in fact quite like to praise GW for the wolves release. I think every new model looks like it had effort put into it, and most of which are at a fairly reasonable price for a change.

**pm713**

I like all of them actually. Apparently I'm a terrbile person.

**Ashiraya**

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I love so much about this hobby. But most of all I love the people that play it. We had a series on telly a while back in England called "grumpy old men", and almost everyone on this forum could've probably starred in it. I mean seriously, some people are never ever happy.

Personally, I love all the new models. "Oh god, hang the heretic!" It's nice to look entirely different to every other chapter. It's nice to have a completely different back story to every other chapter. And it's nice to have access to models no one else will get.

As for the models themselves....

I think the flier is the nicest marine flier released so far. I'm quite happy with it. I probably won't get one just yet, but I have no problems with it at all, and feel it's quite wolfy. As for the "freeze rays" funny how people whinge about them. Again, at least they're individual. No complained about grav weapons, even with as ridiculous as they are...but then they are pretty deadly, why would people complain when they're intending to use as many as they can.

The dread....there is 3 I'm a box. And it states it's interchangeable with other marine dreads. So, if you don't like the head.....just use another! It's amazing how modelling works? It's almost like they're expecting you to use your imagination, god forbid.

And Logan....his model went up for sale, and I instantly pre ordered it. What a stunning model. Whether you think the concept is stupid or not, the model is amazing, and I personally think it will stand out a very impressive centre piece in any army. If you don't like it....don't buy it.

I'd in fact quite like to praise GW for the wolves release. I think every new model looks like it had effort put into it, and most of which are at a fairly reasonable price for a change.

Your avatar is how the SW should be. He has runes, a fur cloak and a wolf stands next to him, but he is still clearly above all a Space Marine.

The wolfwolffangclaw design is going too far, I feel.

**Fabio Bile**

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I love so much about this hobby. But most of all I love the people that play it. We had a series on telly a while back in England called "grumpy old men", and almost everyone on this forum could've probably starred in it. I mean seriously, some people are never ever happy.

To me this is easily the nastiest, most unpleasant thing that's been posted in this thread. I guess you must be really bright and positive that you can say something like that and not be a hate-filled grump.

I mean I think that's how being a nice person works. I dunno, I don't like these miniatures, so obviously I wouldn't know.

**Warpig1815**

The funny thing is that, as the OP, I simply wanted to discuss the models. I stated my dislike, and my reasons why, and then proceeded to ask others opinions. I certainly never intended to force my opinion on others. In fact, I do believe that I explicitly asked for people to change my mind, as I'm not in the habit of hating every GW release - merely I dislike this latest round. That said, I still thank all the posters for their insight, for or against. Personally, I think I could reconcile myself to the Stormwolf, I was more just irritated at the sheer laziness of design in bolting together a Caestus Assault Ram and a Stormtalon. As I said in my original post, Murderfang is not too bad, certainly it looks great, my only objection was to the odd choice of head and fluff (However, please try not to patronise me by suggesting I couldn't kit bash something else). Logan's chariot - well I'm still not convinced. I must say though, I'm surprised at the backlash this type of thread gets, considering it's a public forum dedicated primarilyto discussing whats going on in the 40k universe/community and I was only wishing to discuss opinions - not dictate them. It's quite paradoxical then that discussions such as this are loathed as much.