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At some point, states have to realize that books designed to satisfy the Texas Board of Education, which quite frankly is a joke (sorry Frazzled), are not a good source of educational material for their children.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they are a joke, but they are often quite funny. Their review of textbooks is poor. Their emphasis on college prep, language standards and upping math has been excellent.

I agree though, a lot of textbooks are pretty weak. The Boy was taking college courses at the same time he was finishing high school, and the difference between the textbooks (not to mention downloads etc he had) was pretty striking.

Its bad when I opened up a textbook and immediately spotted an error.

 Frazzled wrote:

Its bad when I opened up a textbook and immediately spotted an error.

I nearly got kicked out of my AP European History class for doing this. I honestly don't remember many of the exact details, just that the teacher said, "if you read in this paragraph it says this happened" and I said "no, it didn't. According to this book, this book and this book (including authors) THIS, is how it happened"


From then on, I was allowed to take my self imposed, "mandatory" nap during that class

 jasper76 wrote:


A good movie, The Revisionaries, was produced detailing the kind of unabashed shenanigans that go on in the Texas Board of Education. It's not pretty to watch, but its important to behold.




Here is an interesting article about how much power this particular institution holds over education outside Texas: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jun/21/how-texas-inflicts-bad-textbooks-on-us/

That clip at the end, about the head of the board saying he would only approve his beliefs despite what anyone says, was horrifying. So horrifying in fact that my only reaction is screaming uncontrollably. Which I will now do.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

If you ever decide to watch the whole movie, I'd suggest getting a pillow to scream into so you don't upset the neighbors.

 Frazzled wrote:

At some point, states have to realize that books designed to satisfy the Texas Board of Education, which quite frankly is a joke (sorry Frazzled), are not a good source of educational material for their children.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they are a joke, but they are often quite funny. Their review of textbooks is poor. Their emphasis on college prep, language standards and upping math has been excellent.

I agree though, a lot of textbooks are pretty weak. The Boy was taking college courses at the same time he was finishing high school, and the difference between the textbooks (not to mention downloads etc he had) was pretty striking.

Its bad when I opened up a textbook and immediately spotted an error.

I'm interested in this error.

All I can guess, it involved weiner dogs.

pm713 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

At some point, states have to realize that books designed to satisfy the Texas Board of Education, which quite frankly is a joke (sorry Frazzled), are not a good source of educational material for their children.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they are a joke, but they are often quite funny. Their review of textbooks is poor. Their emphasis on college prep, language standards and upping math has been excellent.

I agree though, a lot of textbooks are pretty weak. The Boy was taking college courses at the same time he was finishing high school, and the difference between the textbooks (not to mention downloads etc he had) was pretty striking.

Its bad when I opened up a textbook and immediately spotted an error.

I'm interested in this error.

The date the war of 1812 started. Strangely it didn"t start in 1845.

https://www.google.com/search?q=american+eagle+screeching&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=EpT2U4qxMsr9yQT0v4DADw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=784&bih=512#q=murica+eagle&tbm=isch&imgdii=_
All jokes aside its just another demonstration of how America has an awful school system such as; in order to get more grant money you have to join common core and/ or have extremely high grades and schools are closing because of this, not to mention militarized police, public shootings, going to war for oil, and all everybody is worried about is gay marriage and piece of gak Obama care.

 lilgammer123 wrote:
All jokes aside its just another demonstration of how America has an awful school system...

This is a commonly claimed true thing that isn't actually held up by international testing. If you leave aside the Asian countries that cook the books, then the US falls pretty much around the middle of the pack, or slightly below the middle depending on which subject you're looking at. The US system isn't awful, it is at worst slightly below average.

And then if you look closer at the figures you see the US actually excels in extra programs for high performing students and in support programs for low performing students, and then what's happening actually starts to make sense - when you put a lot of extra resources in the top 10% and the bottom 10% then you have slightly less resources for the middle students, and international comparisons focus heavily on the median student.

The other issue impacting US results is equality across schools - because so much funding comes from local government then wealthy school districts have an abundance of resources, meaning lots of money spent on marginal programs, while poor districts have a scarcity, meaning they don't fund programs that could really improve education standards.

 Frazzled wrote:

Its bad when I opened up a textbook and immediately spotted an error.

To some extent that's deliberate, as any error enables a textbook manufacturer to issue, and therefore sell, a new edition which includes the correction. This is much more prevalent at the collegiate level, as the school isn't actually paying for the textbooks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

I nearly got kicked out of my AP European History class for doing this. I honestly don't remember many of the exact details, just that the teacher said, "if you read in this paragraph it says this happened" and I said "no, it didn't. According to this book, this book and this book (including authors) THIS, is how it happened"

Ha, when I was in AP History we used to have a regular guest speaker who would come in and lead discussions on ethics as they apply to governance, culture, the military, etc. One time he decided that he wanted to talk about the ethics of lying, this turned into an hour long debate him and myself, with him getting so frustrated that his face turned red. Good times.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

From then on, I was allowed to take my self imposed, "mandatory" nap during that class

That's how AP English was for me. I spent so much time correcting my teacher's grammatical errors and misinterpretations of various literary themes that she eventually just told me I could sit in the back and sleep.

 dogma wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

From then on, I was allowed to take my self imposed, "mandatory" nap during that class

That's how AP English was for me. I spent so much time correcting my teacher's grammatical errors and misinterpretations of various literary themes that she eventually just told me I could sit in the back and sleep.

Fun memories, but I got to sleep because the teachers were cool and not mad.

I've worked since I turned 16 and spend my Junior and Senior year tired as heck. Took AP biology and chemistry and spend the majority of the time sleeping in class. Not even "try to hide it" sleeping, but flat out "face on desk drooling" sleeping. She never said a word to me about it. One time some other kid fell asleep and she started to yell at him and told him to wake up and get his nose in the book to study. He started to bitch and moan about how it's not fair because I sleep all the time. So she started talking to me to wake me up and the conversation went like this:

teacher: "d-usa, wake up!"
me: (half asleep) "huh, what, hello...."
teacher: "d-usa, what's your average in my class?"
me: (no idea what is going on) ".....96-97...?"
teacher: (to me) "ok, go back to sleep" (to other guy) "you have a D average, when you carry an A you get to sleep"

I guess making an essay on the ramifications of the song "Jenny's got a gun" is out of the question

This doesn't only say much about the state of the school system but also the level of quality of the school personnel.

We are a kinder gentler soft spoken Nation.

Just remember I am like Frazz but more.

Keep Off My Lawn
I Own Fire Arms
and a Backhoe

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I guess making an essay on the ramifications of the song "Jenny's got a gun" is out of the question

This doesn't only say much about the state of the school system but also the level of quality of the school personnel.

It also speaks volumes about the ability of dakka to critically assess news stories.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I guess making an essay on the ramifications of the song "Jenny's got a gun" is out of the question

This doesn't only say much about the state of the school system but also the level of quality of the school personnel.

Read my post on the first page.


Also, Sebster is right.

sebster wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I guess making an essay on the ramifications of the song "Jenny's got a gun" is out of the question

This doesn't only say much about the state of the school system but also the level of quality of the school personnel.

It also speaks volumes about the ability of dakka to critically assess news stories.

Hordini wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I guess making an essay on the ramifications of the song "Jenny's got a gun" is out of the question

This doesn't only say much about the state of the school system but also the level of quality of the school personnel.

Read my post on the first page.


Also, Sebster is right.

What only politicians and intelligent design nutter are allowed to generalize? (and as far as i remember this is not the only incident there have been other's like that).

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I guess making an essay on the ramifications of the song "Jenny's got a gun" is out of the question

This doesn't only say much about the state of the school system but also the level of quality of the school personnel.

Its "Janies Got a Gun"

I never said it was the only time something like this has ever happened, but that doesn't mean it's not an isolated incident in the grand scheme of things, particularly when trying to make sweeping claims about the education system in the US.

 Hordini wrote:
I never said it was the only time something like this has ever happened, but that doesn't mean it's not an isolated incident in the grand scheme of things, particularly when trying to make sweeping claims about the education system in the US.

So you don't think the American Education has deteriorated of the last few decades?

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
I never said it was the only time something like this has ever happened, but that doesn't mean it's not an isolated incident in the grand scheme of things, particularly when trying to make sweeping claims about the education system in the US.

So you don't think the American Education has deteriorated of the last few decades?

That depends on what you mean by "American Education," and if you're including universities or just primary and secondary schools. I'm not sure I'm convinced it was particularly better before, though. I don't know that there is anything that was covered before that isn't now. As far as I can tell, there is a lot more access to higher math and science than there used to be (I even saw this increase while I was in school - more courses being offered to more students, and younger ones). There are certainly issues with methodology, such as teachers being forced to teach to standardized testing, but in my experience good teachers are able to get around that to a certain extent.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
So you don't think the American Education has deteriorated of the last few decades?

I don't think there's ever been a point in history where people haven't thought education used to be much better at some ill-defined point in that past.

I think part of it is just golden age fallacy, but I wonder if much of it is that when we're in school we get a pretty decent understanding of its strengths and weaknesses because, you know, we're there everyday. We can see something bad happen but understand that that bad thing is unusual. Then we leave, and all we experience about school is what we read, or what other people tell us, and of course all that stuff focuses on the bad, and so we start to think that bad stuff is way more common than it really is.

And then there's the tendency to just accept stories like this one without questioning them at all. I don't really know what that's about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hordini wrote:
That depends on what you mean by "American Education," and if you're including universities or just primary and secondary schools. I'm not sure I'm convinced it was particularly better before, though. I don't know that there is anything that was covered before that isn't now. As far as I can tell, there is a lot more access to higher math and science than there used to be (I even saw this increase while I was in school - more courses being offered to more students, and younger ones). There are certainly issues with methodology, such as teachers being forced to teach to standardized testing, but in my experience good teachers are able to get around that to a certain extent.

There's certainly a lot of problems with the reforms built around standardised testing, but there are also strengths. For instance, this is the first time that we look at a failing student and don't just assume that it's the child's fault and wash our hands of them. The idea that the school ought to expand its skills and find the best method to teach every kid that comes there is a really powerful thing.

Of course, there's a load of problems with the methods used, and we rightly focus on those problems, but that doesn't mean we should ignore an important way in which teaching has changed.

In my varied experience with Law Enforcement and Education systems (in some of the most liberal parts of the country) there are three basic stories behind any situation like this, and none of them are mutually exclusive, check all that apply:

A. Inexperienced and/or metropolitan progressive teacher who is unsure how to handle such a situation as they have no exposure to it.

B. Strict school system guidelines. This is to prevent lawsuits and have been adopted as best practices, heavy handed or not.

C.The kid has issues/is under watch for behavioral issues. They may have been years ago, but a reputation as 'that kid who freaked that one time in sixth grade' can carry.

 sebster wrote:

 lilgammer123 wrote:
All jokes aside its just another demonstration of how America has an awful school system...

This is a commonly claimed true thing that isn't actually held up by international testing. If you leave aside the Asian countries that cook the books, then the US falls pretty much around the middle of the pack, or slightly below the middle depending on which subject you're looking at. The US system isn't awful, it is at worst slightly below average.

And then if you look closer at the figures you see the US actually excels in extra programs for high performing students and in support programs for low performing students, and then what's happening actually starts to make sense - when you put a lot of extra resources in the top 10% and the bottom 10% then you have slightly less resources for the middle students, and international comparisons focus heavily on the median student.

The other issue impacting US results is equality across schools - because so much funding comes from local government then wealthy school districts have an abundance of resources, meaning lots of money spent on marginal programs, while poor districts have a scarcity, meaning they don't fund programs that could really improve education standards.

Sebster has the way of it. It also depends heavily on school district and state. For example if you are going to a City of Chicago or Houston school - don't. Go somewhere else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

From then on, I was allowed to take my self imposed, "mandatory" nap during that class

That's how AP English was for me. I spent so much time correcting my teacher's grammatical errors and misinterpretations of various literary themes that she eventually just told me I could sit in the back and sleep.

Fun memories, but I got to sleep because the teachers were cool and not mad.

I've worked since I turned 16 and spend my Junior and Senior year tired as heck. Took AP biology and chemistry and spend the majority of the time sleeping in class. Not even "try to hide it" sleeping, but flat out "face on desk drooling" sleeping. She never said a word to me about it. One time some other kid fell asleep and she started to yell at him and told him to wake up and get his nose in the book to study. He started to bitch and moan about how it's not fair because I sleep all the time. So she started talking to me to wake me up and the conversation went like this:

teacher: "d-usa, wake up!"
me: (half asleep) "huh, what, hello...."
teacher: "d-usa, what's your average in my class?"
me: (no idea what is going on) ".....96-97...?"
teacher: (to me) "ok, go back to sleep" (to other guy) "you have a D average, when you carry an A you get to sleep"

We have more in common than I realized, except I was the one with the D average... Hey learning 2+2 is HARD!

You know these days a smart kid who wants to shoot up the school will have learned to keep his mouth closed.

Advertising your intentions ahead of time does not work anymore as everyone takes those threats seriously now.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

So you don't think the American Education has deteriorated of the last few decades?

Well, given that in the 50s-70s we were churning kids through school with the intent of them going to work for NASA, some nuclear reactor/agency, Boeing to design/build the next badass bomber/fighter jets, etc. And now, we're making everyone "Feel good" about themselves, and trying to push that star athlete up to the big University so that he can Sports for a living.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

We have more in common than I realized, except I was the one with the D average... Hey learning 2+2 is HARD!

Well, it's much harder to learn 2+2 when your teacher is an Inquisitor, and you are worried about being branded Heretic for missing the answer

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
And now, we're making everyone "Feel good" about themselves, and trying to push that star athlete up to the big University so that he can Sports for a living.

And then they enter the workforce with inflated and unwarranted senses of self-esteem, and they have an existential crisis when they realize they're not really as smart or special as everyone's been telling them through their formative years.

For real, at my current job we have to take training on how to deal with Millenials without hurting their feelings. I am not kidding.

 jasper76 wrote:

For real, at my current job we have to take training on how to deal with Millenials without hurting their feelings. I am not kidding.

That's screwed up. I had a job where I reduced one of them (a guy) to tears once. I dodged getting in trouble by virtue of the fact that I was right. Also, the fact he was a guy probably helped. "Brad, you're not wrong. You're just kind of a dick sometimes." True story.

They really are different though. My 18 year old brother is one of the most timid, sensitive, unsure of himself people I've ever seen. The high school we went to has a hallowed tradition of the seniors playing some sort of prank on the teachers/other students (it's a fairly small school). He told me that that the class flash mobbed and had a "hug in". He was actually almost as disappointed in them as I was.

Also, isn't training with the intent of treating some people unlike others kind of discriminatory?

I don't really think it was discriminatory, it was more like 'cultural sensitivity training', or something like that. It was couched as being anti-discriminatory.

Check the box and move on, says I.

The majority of millennial bashing is rooted in what Sebster referred to as the "golden age" fallacy.

I'm not saying they don't have issues, as every generation has issues that they face, but it's been massively blown out of proportion. There are plenty of hardworking, responsible, ambitious millennials, and the idea that it's all about making everybody "feel good" and providing an inflated sense of self-esteem is a crock of gak.

First off, there's nothing wrong with having a healthy amount of self-esteem. If anything, I think low self-esteem is a more common issue than an over-inflated sense of self-esteem.

Believe me, the majority of millennials are all too aware of their status, especially since so many people love to fething bring it up all the time.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

So you don't think the American Education has deteriorated of the last few decades?

Well, given that in the 50s-70s we were churning kids through school with the intent of them going to work for NASA, some nuclear reactor/agency, Boeing to design/build the next badass bomber/fighter jets, etc. And now, we're making everyone "Feel good" about themselves, and trying to push that star athlete up to the big University so that he can Sports for a living.

Well, I went to school in the '70s. And I sure as hell never had regular homework as a first-grader. My son did...4 nights a week. It's going to increase in second grade, with some foreign language homework alongside whatever else he gets. I'm also pretty sure that I got more recess than he gets.

I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with "Singapore math." It's how they teach basic math now, at least in our district. One of the first things they learn are number bonds, which are a pictoral thing to help them with some of the concepts. Anyway, I was helping him with his homework, and realized that one of the number bond problems was in fact an algebra question. The variables were hearts and diamonds instead of As and Bs, but it was 100% algebra...in first-grade homework.

TL;DR -- I think that the American educational system is a case of haves and have-nots right now. IMO, the good schools are pushing kids pretty damn hard academically. I am CONFIDENT in saying the average kid in my son's class was well ahead of the average kid in my 1st grade class. The problem is with the failing schools, most of which also have no easy solutions.