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That is extremely worg argument. You are using two examples. What about the mom of 3 who comes home after working in the coal mine to feed three little crotch spawn?
Someone working in a coal mine is probably more fit than most of Dakka.
Maria Kang was lambasted for "fat shaming" when she wasn't, in any way shape or form. She's a mom of three small kids. She's able to stay in shape because she makes it a priority. The tag " what's your excuse" is entirely appropriate because, for most people, being fit is a matter if effort and impulse control. The % of people that actually have physiological problems keeping them obese is very small.
And what about psychological problems?
Also, no, that tagline was not appropriate. She claims she wanted to inspire but then her tag line belittles rather than empowers. She could have instead put "It's possible" or "You can do it, too!" but instead she went with flat out blaming any woman who is not in peak physical condition for their circumstance.
Whats your excuse works pretty well.
When you read it and say your excuse, only you can decide if its a worthy one. If your excuse is you lost both your legs in the vietnam war, then well that sounds like a reasonable excuse. But if its because you'd rather spend that 30 minutes eating candy, then well maybe thats not such a good excuse.
Its actually thought provoking really, something designed to be remembered and more importantly causes self reflection.
Being fit doesnt mean peak physical condition. It simply means being healthy.
That is extremely worg argument. You are using two examples. What about the mom of 3 who comes home after working in the coal mine to feed three little crotch spawn?
?
As said above, thats a good excuse, is it not? I simply used 2 extremes to clearly put forth a point.
As siad above
"When you read it and say your excuse, only you can decide if its a worthy one."
So if the mother of 3 who works in a coal mine (like my examples, an extreme one) is your excuse, and you really dont have 30 minutes to spare in your time for kid reasons or work reasons or the fact you must sleep etc, then well thats her excuse isnt it?
I dont really know what you are trying to say though.
It's easy to find examples when you don't understand how they don't fit your argument or eve what those situations entailed.
Well, they both do. Thanks anyways.
As I said, and your poor recollection of the events further shows, you don't seem to really know what was going on with either situation. You're welcome, btw.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
hotsauceman1 wrote: It is. but I just hate it when people try to make a point and use a fallacy such that using two extremes are the only possible reasons.
True, but on the eating subject. People consume far too many liquid and empty calories (foods low in micronutrients). A couple sodas, an icee (sp?), those outrageously sweet coffee drinks, etc, add up quickly and they're extremely sugary which means they aren't filling and they ultimately end up making you feel hungrier.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
hotsauceman1 wrote: It is. but I just hate it when people try to make a point and use a fallacy such that using two extremes are the only possible reasons.
Am I to list 50 reasons to cover all my angles?
Giving two extreme sides in a debate to put forth an example is something thats used frequently in speeches etc. Hyperbole. You get good marks for doing it in college speeches.
In theory people usually grasp what you are saying and fill in the gaps themselves, saving everyone time and effort during the discussion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 03:25:05
I don't know what it's called, but it's Bass or Boom Boom, or something, one of the newer songs.
It's less songs and more just facebook pages I go to; one of which is LIquor, Girls, and fething video games. While the Mods of that page are pretty good about it, a lot of the people who go there seem to be very anti-slim.
You mean this video?
Why be hatin'? It is indeed all about dat bass... Also none of those girls are ones that I'd kick out of bed unless she was eating cookies and didn't offer me one or two...
Also the song is catchy is feth.
Not the video, just the song.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
It's easy to find examples when you don't understand how they don't fit your argument or eve what those situations entailed.
Well, they both do. Thanks anyways.
Maria Kang was lambasted for "fat shaming" when she wasn't, in any way shape or form. She's a mom of three small kids. She's able to stay in shape because she makes it a priority. The tag " what's your excuse" is entirely appropriate because, for most people, being fit is a matter if effort and impulse control. The % of people that actually have physiological problems keeping them obese is very small.
The "real women have curves" nonsense implies that if you're fit or don't "have curves" you're not a real woman. It's insulting.
I thought the 'real women have curves' was meant to be a criticism of how everyone in fashion/clothing is fairly skinny, and that there should be more 'large' (comparatively) women used in clothing adverts and as models? It didn't strike me as a shaming skinny people movement, more as an accepting everyone else movement.
Goliath wrote: I thought the 'real women have curves' was meant to be a criticism of how everyone in fashion/clothing is fairly skinny, and that there should be more 'large' (comparatively) women used in clothing adverts and as models? It didn't strike me as a shaming skinny people movement, more as an accepting everyone else movement.
It started as such but has been reappropriation to degrade fit and/or thin women to make the US average of a size 14 feel better about themselves. A 14 is not small no matter how you cut it.
@Ahtman - please, then, enlighten me since I'm so off base.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 03:48:05
cincydooley wrote: Honestly, Ouze, you put a lot more thought into the order of my words than I did, because my emphasis was on the fact it is terribly, terribly unhealthy.
Thing is though, society telling random strangers that they're an unhealthy weight and shouldn't be seen in a bikini... doesn't actually do gak for their weight. It might make them feel bad, which in turn might lead to a diet or exercise regime, but as we should all know by now that stuff is about as likely to solve a weight problem as a lottery ticket is likely to solve a debt problem.
So once we realise your thinking has exactly no health effects on these women at all, all we're left with is you giving your opinion about women you find unsightly. And it shouldn't be too hard to realise how obnoxious that is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 03:53:33
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Diet and exercise don't solve weight problems? What universe is this? God, I could have sworn I went from 245 to 185 a few years ago and then proceeded to build my body up. I must be going insane and living in some kind of internalized fantasy!
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
trexmeyer wrote: I have been been criticized for that, so yes, it actually does happen.
I said any meaningful amount of shaming. If you look hard enough you can find at least one person shaming someone for anything you can imagine, but that doesn't make it relevant. A handful of people might have criticized you for eating healthy, but that's not even close to the same thing as facing constant shame for your healthy eating habits. One is an isolated incident that most people dismiss as an obnoxious idiot, the other is a recurring pattern that can add up to serious mental problems.
Also, criticism is not the same thing as shaming. Criticism is "you're wrong", shaming is "you're wrong and you're a bad person for being wrong".
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
cincydooley wrote: Honestly, Ouze, you put a lot more thought into the order of my words than I did, because my emphasis was on the fact it is terribly, terribly unhealthy.
Thing is though, society telling random strangers that they're an unhealthy weight and shouldn't be seen in a bikini... doesn't actually do gak for their weight. It might make them feel bad, which in turn might lead to a diet or exercise regime, but as we should all know by now that stuff is about as likely to solve a weight problem as a lottery ticket is likely to solve a debt problem.
So once we realise your thinking has exactly no health effects on these women at all, all we're left with is you giving your opinion about women you find unsightly. And it shouldn't be too hard to realise how obnoxious that is.
Have to disagree with you there.
Public opinion dictates how people behave; When Murica was first formed, black people were seen as slaves, now they are rightfully seen as people. Fifty years ago, gays were seen as subhuman people, now they are fighting for their rights and gaining them rapidly. Point is, neither of those were possible if people didn't think that "Oh hey, gays/blacks are people too!"
As such, if people keep telling fat people to lose weight, they will eventually lose weight due to societal pressure. If people tell them Fat is Ok, then they will see Fat as being ok.
Mind you, I have no opinion either way.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Slarg232 wrote: As such, if people keep telling fat people to lose weight, they will eventually lose weight due to societal pressure. If people tell them Fat is Ok, then they will see Fat as being ok.
Except the exact opposite is true. Fat people already know they're fat, so telling them to lose weight just damages their self esteem/ability to cope with the world/etc. And that often means eating more, or eating unhealthy foods, because they're too tired of dealing with the shame being piled on them and have no energy left for making positive changes in their lives.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Breotan wrote: Only diet solves weight problems. Exercise builds muscle. Otherwise meth addicts would weigh a LOT more than they do.
Cardio can lead to weight loss (it can also lead to weight gain if done incorrectly ironically) and building muscle increases your base metabolic rate since muscle burns more calories than fat.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
Slarg232 wrote: As such, if people keep telling fat people to lose weight, they will eventually lose weight due to societal pressure. If people tell them Fat is Ok, then they will see Fat as being ok.
Except the exact opposite is true. Fat people already know they're fat, so telling them to lose weight just damages their self esteem/ability to cope with the world/etc. And that often means eating more, or eating unhealthy foods, because they're too tired of dealing with the shame being piled on them and have no energy left for making positive changes in their lives.
Then the problem isn't that they're fat, it's the low self esteem. One thing working out does for you is grant more self esteem.
Saying "Don't say bad things to fat people, they'll eat more" is ludicrous. That's like saying "Don't tell an Alcoholic he's had enough, he'll drink more". Comes a time and point where you just need to put the bottle down.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Slarg232 wrote: As such, if people keep telling fat people to lose weight, they will eventually lose weight due to societal pressure. If people tell them Fat is Ok, then they will see Fat as being ok.
Fat people already know they're fat, so telling them to lose weight just damages their self esteem/ability to cope with the world/etc.
Obesity is so widespread now that I'm not sure fat people actually believe they are fat.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
Slarg232 wrote: Then the problem isn't that they're fat, it's the low self esteem.
And guess why they have low self esteem. If you face a constant barrage of "you suck" messages you start to believe it, and that's what fat people have to deal with.
One thing working out does for you is grant more self esteem.
Except it also requires a minimum level of self esteem and willpower to work out, something that not everyone has. If you're mentally exhausted from dealing with constant shaming then it's very hard to get out and make changes in your life, even if in theory you'll be happier after you've made them. The more you shame someone the more likely it is that they just give up.
Saying "Don't say bad things to fat people, they'll eat more" is ludicrous. That's like saying "Don't tell an Alcoholic he's had enough, he'll drink more". Comes a time and point where you just need to put the bottle down.
The difference is that an alcoholic who has had too much to drink is an immediate danger, both to themselves and others, and is incapable of realizing that they have a problem. With fat people, on the other hand, the dominant reason for telling people to stop being fat seems to be "eww gross, I don't want to look at that".
trexmeyer wrote: Obesity is so widespread now that I'm not sure fat people actually believe they are fat.
Are you serious?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
trexmeyer wrote: Obesity is so widespread now that I'm not sure fat people actually believe they are fat.
Are you serious?
There HAS been at least a member of Dakka who has suggested that they were not morbidly obese in spite of personally providing strong evidence otherwise. It shows at least a single person here, let alone the world as a whole.
Granted, I don't believe all fat people believe that. I'm a fat guy and know it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 04:27:00
trexmeyer wrote: Obesity is so widespread now that I'm not sure fat people actually believe they are fat.
Are you serious?
There HAS been at least a member of Dakka who has suggested that they were not morbidly obese in spite of personally providing strong evidence otherwise. It shows at least a single person here, let alone the world as a whole.
Granted, I don't believe all fat people believe that. I'm a fat guy and know it.
trexmeyer wrote: You're kind of detached from reality, aren't you?
I'm not the one suggesting that fat people aren't aware that they're fat.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Slarg232 wrote: Then the problem isn't that they're fat, it's the low self esteem.
And guess why they have low self esteem. If you face a constant barrage of "you suck" messages you start to believe it, and that's what fat people have to deal with.
I suppose we should tell them that they are beautiful snowflakes and nothing they ever do is wrong, then?
One thing working out does for you is grant more self esteem.
Except it also requires a minimum level of self esteem and willpower to work out, something that not everyone has. If you're mentally exhausted from dealing with constant shaming then it's very hard to get out and make changes in your life, even if in theory you'll be happier after you've made them. The more you shame someone the more likely it is that they just give up.
As someone who battled with depresssion/low willpower during my teen years, I can speak with experience when I say you do dip down into dark territory if you get shamed enough. However, I will also tell you that not everyone who gets shamed goes down too dangerously (To the point of suicidal thoughts/actions), and eventually you do realize that it's only you who can make a change. Other people may tell you that you should change, but only you can say you need to.
Saying "Don't say bad things to fat people, they'll eat more" is ludicrous. That's like saying "Don't tell an Alcoholic he's had enough, he'll drink more". Comes a time and point where you just need to put the bottle down.
The difference is that an alcoholic who has had too much to drink is an immediate danger, both to themselves and others, and is incapable of realizing that they have a problem. With fat people, on the other hand, the dominant reason for telling people to stop being fat seems to be "eww gross, I don't want to look at that".
Because being fat hasn't been shown to increase illness and fat people don't have a increased chance of developing diabetes, asthma, or other such conditions.
Also, you cannot argue that fat people are typically lazy, especially when it comes to walking; as someone who worked retail for 3+ years, those motorized carts that are meant for the injured/elderly? Nope, nine times out of ten it's someone whose 300+ lbs on one of those things.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
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