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You may be remembering something from the end if ME2 (which was later rediscovered at the end of ME3), but that wasn't incorporated in to Shepard.

 Melissia wrote:
You may be remembering something from the end if ME2 (which was later rediscovered at the end of ME3), but that wasn't incorporated in to Shepard.

Now its going to bother me what it was.

 Melissia wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
At the end of a game series that emphasizes agency and change arising from the actions of your character, having a god you can't even argue forcing your hand is not appropriate.

That isn't even what happened to begin with, so the rest of your rant is a bit incoherent to me.

Did we even play the same game? An all-powerful super being appears, monologues for a while. You're allowed to ask for a few clarifications, but not challenge or question any of its assertions. At no point in the conversation when he goes "Synthetics always kill organics" are allowed to go "Uh? Nuh-uh! I totally solved that Geth problem, which was mostly just a few organic bureaucrats being dicks anyway"

Then a barely explained energy blast just removes the problem.Like woosh. There goes the reapers, totally not going to give you any of the mechanics behind it like we do with everything else in this carefully crafted universe. The only ending that comes close to being in line with what was hinted at so far is the "Red" ending... and that involves genocide.

Deus ex machina (Latin: [ˈdeus eks ˈmaː.kʰi.na]: /ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkiːnə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/;[1] from Latin, meaning "god from the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object.

In the last 5 minutes of the game.They introduce several new elements: The Starchild, The Catalyst's link to the to the mass relays, the fact you can merge all AI and organics, the ability to destroy all synthetics in the galaxy (how does it differentiate between AIs and just like regular computers or logic circuits?).

Even the things you could argue for already... at stretch, like the reaper mind control are contrived and last minute. The illusive man talked about wanting to control the reapers but he was going to do it with his own reverse-engineered reaper tech, that hasn't been what the catalyst does.

At the last moment, this glowing kid pops out and goes "I can make this thing do all these things for you, press a button and get an ending because I say so."

I would say that seeing as how so few understood the ending, it wasn't clear at all. That's the writer's/director's fault, not the viewers.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
You may be remembering something from the end if ME2 (which was later rediscovered at the end of ME3), but that wasn't incorporated in to Shepard.

Now its going to bother me what it was.

Weeellllll...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chongara wrote:
Did we even play the same game? An all-powerful super being appears

Apparently, we didn't. Because this didn't happen in Mass Effect 3.

The hologram for an artificial intelligence appeared, having found a situation where it did not know what to do, and it asked Shepard for input on what to do.

 Melissia wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
Did we even play the same game? An all-powerful super being appears

Apparently, we didn't. Because this didn't happen in Mass Effect 3.

The hologram for an artificial intelligence appeared, having found a situation where it did not know what to do, and it asked Shepard for input on what to do.

Please, please, please lend me your copy of Mass Effect 3. Mine is broken.

 Chongara wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
Did we even play the same game? An all-powerful super being appears

Apparently, we didn't. Because this didn't happen in Mass Effect 3.

The hologram for an artificial intelligence appeared, having found a situation where it did not know what to do, and it asked Shepard for input on what to do.

Please, please, please lend me your copy of Mass Effect 3. Mine is broken.

Play the DLC

 Chongara wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
Did we even play the same game? An all-powerful super being appears

Apparently, we didn't. Because this didn't happen in Mass Effect 3.

The hologram for an artificial intelligence appeared, having found a situation where it did not know what to do, and it asked Shepard for input on what to do.

Please, please, please lend me your copy of Mass Effect 3. Mine is broken.

I'm fairly certain that, if you own ME3 on the PC, we play the same game, because I doubt Origin gives us different versions.

 Melissia wrote:

Please, please, please lend me your copy of Mass Effect 3. Mine is broken.

I'm fairly certain that, if you own ME3 on the PC, we play the same game, because I doubt Origin gives us different versions.

 Chongara wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

Please, please, please lend me your copy of Mass Effect 3. Mine is broken.

I'm fairly certain that, if you own ME3 on the PC, we play the same game, because I doubt Origin gives us different versions.

Oh. *Phew*. I'm actually feeling pretty relieved. I thought two arrogant men had ruined one of the better sci-fi universes in years by locking the other writers out of the room and unilaterally creating their own jarring, unfitting ending. Now that I know it was a vivid hallucination on my part I can go enjoy it with a level head.

I think I'll go catch the end of a let's play on youtube.


EDIT: I should go check out the last half of Star Ocean III while I'm at it too. That was probably just kind teenage-hormone induced nightmare too.

Hmmm. Lets see what can happen.

Play I have no mouth and I must scream and you will stop playing and will not come out of your bedroom for a day.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Hmmm. Lets see what can happen.

*Sigh*. I'm still hallucinating. That's too bad. You know if I'm going to be that delusional about it I may as well be delusional about in a way I enjoy. Like, if my mind needs to have a nonsensical ending to that game that isn't there, I'm going to make it fun nonsense. I've now canonically replaced the last 30 minutes of Mass Effect 3 in my head with the last 30 minutes of Metal Gear Rising: Revengence . I'm still flying rodent gak crazy, but at least I'm laughing this time.

 Lynata wrote:
Personally, my only problem with the Reapers' background as explained by the Catalyst was how it all evolved around artificial intelligences, which I think is BS. A better mission would have been to regularly purge the galaxy if any civilisation reaches a certain degree of technological advancement, because they'd eventually develop WMDs capable of messing up and depopulating the entire galaxy in a way that it ceases to be able to support any life.

Going back a few pages I'm going to pull this out, you don't happen to watch a bit of anime do you? Because what you describe is the plot of TTGL, The Spiral Nemesis.

Spiral energy is the building block of all life in the universe, overuse of this power will eventually lead the end of all existence. When the first species discovered this potential catastrophe they took the name of Anti-Spirals and went on the mission of protecting the universe by opressing all lifeforms to a technological level that was safe. Even to the extent of oppressing their own species.

The existence of dark energy & the Mass Effect, the reapers harvesting all life of a certain technological level, I would not be surprised if this was an idea thrown around the story room.

Oh wait it totally was.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-19-ex-bioware-writer-discusses-dropped-ideas-for-mass-effect-trilogy-ending

 Chongara wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Hmmm. Lets see what can happen.

*Sigh*. I'm still hallucinating. That's too bad. You know if I'm going to be that delusional about it I may as well be delusional about in a way I enjoy. Like, if my mind needs to have a nonsensical ending to that game that isn't there, I'm going to make it fun nonsense. I've now canonically replaced the last 30 minutes of Mass Effect 3 in my head with the last 30 minutes of Metal Gear Rising: Revengence . I'm still flying rodent gak crazy, but at least I'm laughing this time.

I think I would have enjoyed Shepard fighting the Illusive Man in the vein of that Revengeance ending a lot more than what we got.

At least Revengeance is an appropriate game for a completely ridiculous ending as the whole concept is mental. I like to think it's Otacon reading through "one of his Japanese animes" that's about Raiden for some reason. Fits with the universe. Although it's not as if the MGS universe is grounded in reality that makes what happens in that game entirely inconceivable. ME3 however just goes bat gak out there when it comes to the story. It might as well have been a different game.

I've always had a different hope / interpretation for Mass Effect than I think what, not only the designers thought, but probably a whole load of other players.

Sure, the Reapers and collectors were big ol' nasty, evil jerkfaces that were mean and possibly a little scary and nasty.

However, I never felt Mass Effect to be particularly dark or indeed, grimdark.

The universe just wasn't that to me. Or at least, it wasn't supposed to be that to me. Sure, the Dragon Age universe was, being heavily inspired by Game of Thrones as opposed to, say, Lord of The Rings.

Mass Effect? Nah.

Mass Effect, ultimately to me, had the same tone as Star Trek. The Reapers, were basically analogous to The Borg (pre-Voyager). - Big, scary, nasty, meaney meanness that were genuine threats, put danger in the things, could mess up the galaxy - Ala 'Star Trek: First Contact.'

Ultimately, however. You had good guys - and, they were awesome. - Sure, there could be some casualties along the way, tragic, sad casualties (I have been... and always will be... your friend). But, ultimately, you knew everything was going to be ok.

My fan-fiction ending for Mass Effect 3 would have been something like.

Sorrowful, sad scene with Anderson, as shown in the game.
Shepard stumbles up, limping and clutching their way to the 'Fire Button,' collapsing a few steps short of it.

A door opens offscreen. Shepard is lifted by unknown figures, dragged off.

Eyes open, the Crucibles panel is in front of them, a hand lifts Shepard's hand up. It's familiar... - It belongs to one of Shepard's squad on the run-up to the Crucible (they weren't evaced in my version, sticking with the original situation of them mysteriously being missing).

- Of course, it's the Love Interests hand, if they were in the final squad. Shepard falls unconscious once more. "We've got you."

Scene changes to the weapon activating, Extended edition cutscenes.

One final Addition. - "6 weeks later."

Refresh of the opening scene of Mass Effect 1, with a repaired Normandy SR-2 flying past Jupiter, Reaper / ship wreckage floating by.
Shepard nods / greets the surviving crew on board ship, giving a last personal moment with the crew. Shepard approaches Joker, "Alliance Command have given us permission to begin patrols. Where too, Commander?" "Second star on the right and straight on till morning."

Ok, perhaps not something quite so derivative... But with the same sentiment.

 Madcat87 wrote:


Oh wait it totally was.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-19-ex-bioware-writer-discusses-dropped-ideas-for-mass-effect-trilogy-ending

Precisely. The actual ME plot was quite deeper than what it was changed to in ME2 and ME3. Bioware, or rather their head writer, decided for it to be too complicated and turned almost 180° by making ME an extremely generic sci-fi story that "everyone could get into". The overall premise of the series was perfect - you start with a strong first part of the trilogy, introducing all parties and the main conflict. The second part then focused on the characters to further draw the players in and bond the crew together, with the suicide mission being the peak. The third part was then supposed to end it off by closing of all ties and revealing a last twist.

By dumbing the story down to such a large extent, however, Bioware lost most of its appeal. They focused on the "organics vs. synthethic" plot which is simple to understand but, ultimatively, extremely bland and shallow. It certainly appeals to more simple minds or people with a lower demand on stories, but it ruined the series for us. And that's even before the extremely poorly-made, exposition spewing ending of the series. Bioware just seems to lost their ability to write good endings. DA:O had good, diverse endings with a lot of story ties being tied up. ME 1 was great too, giving you a sense of accomplishment while still hinting at the conflict still being there and chances being very slim actually. ME2 was trash with the giant robot thing and a very poor ending scene. ME 3 was an utter mess of trash any half-way decent author would be ashamed of. DA2 ending was terribly bland as well, not to mention the poor "end fight".

Anything they do nowadays seems to be extremely rushed and poorly thought-out. And their next project is going to be a multiplayer hack and slash? Urgh.

Madcat87 wrote:Going back a few pages I'm going to pull this out, you don't happen to watch a bit of anime do you? Because what you describe is the plot of TTGL, The Spiral Nemesis.

Gurren Lagann?

I actually did watch that, though I didn't see any connection there, and your comparison still feels a bit forced - I was referring entirely to technological advances. You know, stuff like artificial black holes, supernova torpedoes, self-replicating extermination robots, or ... oh, the krogan flinging asteroids through space, for example.
I'm of the opinion that science will eventually allow virtually anything, but needless to say, with this godlike power comes great responsibility. Imagine the entire galaxy - or possibly even the space beyond - being potentially doomed by the push of a single button.

That is where I could see the Reapers come into the picture. Hitting the big reset button to make sure that life will forever continue. Because evolution cannot be stopped, but you sure can crush its results and thus allow other life-forms to flourish. Like cutting a big tree so that the shrubs on the ground get the sunlight.

Regarding the whole dark matter stuff, I think this has been blown greatly out of proportion, much like with the (easily debunked) "indoctrination theory" that has been propagated by a rather insistent segment of the fanbase.
As mentioned in your link, they just dropped a few mentions here and there but didn't even bother to flesh it out, which is probably why I didn't spent much time thinking on it. It's been some time, but I vaguely recall going "huh" and then just forgetting about it as it never came back up again.

I can see the resemblance between Karpyshyn's idea and Gurren Lagann's spiral energy, though. Maybe he was watching the anime, too?

Sigvatr wrote:ME 3 was an utter mess of trash any half-way decent author would be ashamed of.

Are you a half-way decent author that you can make that judgement?

Seriously, it's absolutely okay to dislike something, but you sound like a Sith-Lord on a crusade. Including Palpatine-levels of propaganda speeches.
Given how many people were confused by the ending (quite often ignoring obvious connections in their rage), I also wouldn't exactly call it "dumbed down", but rather perhaps it was too complicated and/or too "dark" for those fans who wanted a standard 0/8-15 ending like in 99% of all other video games (see Compel's suggestion). It is quite simply a matter of taste, and no amount of misrepresentation will change that.

Compel wrote:However, I never felt Mass Effect to be particularly dark or indeed, grimdark.

I'd say it depends on where you look. As per the authors, the main influences on Mass Effect were Aliens, Blade Runner, Star Wars, Star Trek II and Starship Troopers. Whether you had a lighthearted part or a dark one very much depended on which section of the game you were at - both in terms of missions/events as well as background from the game's codex. And I'd say that this "emotional rollercoaster" is an integral part of the games' success.

 Lynata wrote:
Are you a half-way decent author that you can make that judgement?

Does a movie critic have to be a professional actor? The "only experts can comment on expert's work" argument is a stillborn argument.

And in this every case: if any author ever resorts to shoving exposition down another person's throat, then it means that he sucks at his job.

It is quite simply a matter of taste, and no amount of misrepresentation will change that.

Did I mention taste? The ME story got dumbed down and reduced to a generic sci-fi plot. Period. You can't argue against that. You can, however, argue that one crowd prefers one version to another preferred by another crowd. That's personal taste.

Sigvatr wrote:Does a movie critic have to be a professional actor?

Only if said critic is so arrogant they claim to be speaking for all professional actors. Then, yes.

Sigvatr wrote:The ME story got dumbed down and reduced to a generic sci-fi plot. Period. You can't argue against that.

Of course I can. In fact, I already did in a previous post.

I also argued against it previously in this thread, myself.

I didn't see any reason to hate the ending, myself. Again, the only change I'd probably make is letting the other endings have Shepard survive somehow (though that'd be difficult in the Control ending) if your EMS was high enough.

Given how many people were confused by the ending (quite often ignoring obvious connections in their rage), I also wouldn't exactly call it "dumbed down", but rather perhaps it was too complicated and/or too "dark" for those fans who wanted a standard 0/8-15 ending like in 99% of all other video games (see Compel's suggestion). It is quite simply a matter of taste, and no amount of misrepresentation will change that

There wasn't anything confusing or even terribly *dark* about the ending. In fact in my view, the ending wasn't dark at all. All 3 endings end the reaper threat and save future cycles. One ending even has the main character functionally ascend into godhood. The Red & Green endings both have ethical issues to be sure, red more so. However they leave the galaxy otherwise intact and even address the issue of being without the mass relays.

The plot points weren't terribly complex. Reapers controlled by insane AI built by some ancient force - that's about it on their end.

The issue was none of it feels terribly natural coming from the series or even the game. The execution is so botched the AI amounts to a god, seemingly waving it']s arms to grant Shepard realultimatepower. The powers that fuel the final energy burst are so vaguely defined and out of scope with the rest of the universe they feel feel like magic. None of it involves long running elements in the series, or a confrontation with anything that looks, sounds or acts like the reapers we've been dealing with for 3 games. Even the super weapon we've been kind-of-sort building in the game was background element only talked about, a barely there McGuffin to drive the plot forward.

I would have been happy with a dark ending. I would have been happy with a game where the reapers win. A massed battle where we see all the races finally fighting together, only to be easily crushed. The Repears have been telling us for 3 games they're unstoppable - let them be right. Let the galaxy burn. The issue is the ending chases up both ends of spectrum and awkwardly crashes on itself where they meet.

That's not even getting into the issues with the conversation within it's own context, where Shepard was acting totally out of character for almost any branch of play up until that point. The whole affair is just unsettling.


errr wait. I mean. It sure was wacky when Shepard ripped the arm off that repear and starting beating it to death with it. Also, where did Udina get those nanomachines and why'd they turn him into the hulk? It also seemed really weird timing for him to go randomly off on tanget about he played college football. Ha-ha sure was wacky though, good thing KEI-9 was there to throw shepard that Super-Gun that used to belong to Saren.

What I meant with "dark" was the protagonist's sacrifice to ensure the survival of the galaxy, as opposed to the "Disney ending" the vocal majority on the BSN had clamoured for, with "everyone living happy ever after". I much preferred Shepard to go out with a big bang as opposed to what people were suggesting there, if only because it felt so standard, as opposed to the almost GoT-style shock of Shep dying to accomplish the mission.
("unfortunately", my EMS was high enough to actually show me the so-called breather scene, but I'm ignoring that for my headcanon)

And with the confusion I'm referring to stuff like people complaining about how the Normandy could suddenly be in FTL when it was just shown having landed on Earth. Because apparently those people who have put so much rage into their complaints about the ending totally missed the general call for retreat that was issued by the admiral.
A whole lot of fans were missing details like these because apparently they weren't paying attention, and when this is presented as part of their criticism then it's quite simply their own fault. In the expanded ending, BioWare went through great lengths to clarify these things, such as for this example inserting a new scene showing the Normandy depart. It shouldn't have been necessary, but apparently a lot of people need this sort of Hollywood-style guidance.

The issue of being without mass relays was likewise only adressed in the expanded ending, because again a lot of people have complained about everything supposedly "having been for nothing" just because people can't quick-travel between the systems. I didn't need this, I've got a brain to come up with my own explanations rather than requiring to get everything served on a dish like some mindless consumerist zombie. BioWare leaving these blank spots for us to think about was something I thought was cool - and I am disheartened that so many people apparently weren't capable of employing their own fantasy to make use of this opportunity. :(

And the Humans-vs-AIs bit was very much a long running element in the series, ever since meeting the geth in ME1. As I said, I would've explained it differently, but to say that it was completely detached from previous stuff seems wrong to me.
Even the three primary choices are a reference to classic elements associated with the Reapers, with Destroy representing their scorched earth tactics, Synthesis a form of Saren-like conversion, and Control a reverse-indoctrination.

Chongara wrote:I would have been happy with a dark ending. I would have been happy with a game where the reapers win. A massed battle where we see all the races finally fighting together, only to be easily crushed. The Repears have been telling us for 3 games they're unstoppable - let them be right. Let the galaxy burn.

I guarantee you that this would've led to an even greater gakstorm than what happened already.

The cutscene for when you fail is goosebumps-epic though.

Chongara wrote:errr wait. I mean. It sure was wacky when Shepard ripped the arm off that repear and starting beating it to death with it. Also, where did Udina get those nanomachines and why'd they turn him into the hulk? It also seemed really weird timing for him to go randomly off on tanget about he played college football. Ha-ha sure was wacky though, good thing KEI-9 was there to throw shepard that Super-Gun that used to belong to Saren.

oO

If that was a reference to something that actually happened in the game, you've embellished it in such a heavy way that leaves me unable to make the connection.

What was this supposed "super being" that appeared at the end of ME3? I remember an ancient AI showing up and explaining everything (a little heavy handed, but whatever, I can run with it).

ME3's eventual revelation is that the Reapers are just Ultron from Marvel comics: Dedicated to creating peace, and finds the only logical way to ensure peace is to prune everything so that it can grow from there.

 Lynata wrote:


And with the confusion I'm referring to stuff like people complaining about how the Normandy could suddenly be in FTL when it was just shown having landed on Earth. Because apparently those people who have put so much rage into their complaints about the ending totally missed the general call for retreat that was issued by the admiral.

Actually you are miss remembering the scene. The Admiral gives NO such order.

The Commander of the GROUND FORCES calls for a retreat OF THE GROUND FORCES so they can regroup and try again.

The Navy continues to fight the entire time.
\


Anyways i was just going to say, I overall enjoyed the game. I did not like the original endings but I actually really liked the altered endings and im thankful they were released.


I think the series would have improved a lot if the Reapers always remained mysterious. Leaving us to wonder what their goals. There was no way to live up to the ME 1 hype of them.

 Lynata wrote:
What I meant with "dark" was the protagonist's sacrifice to ensure the survival of the galaxy, as opposed to the "Disney ending" the vocal majority on the BSN had clamoured for, with "everyone living happy ever after". I much preferred Shepard to go out with a big bang as opposed to what people were suggesting there, if only because it felt so standard, as opposed to the almost GoT-style shock of Shep dying to accomplish the mission.
("unfortunately", my EMS was high enough to actually show me the so-called breather scene, but I'm ignoring that for my headcanon)

I don't think a Shepard death ending is all shocking really. I'll admit the hero living is standard path but it wouldn't have struck me as revolutionary or anything. Hell my favorite game as the kid left 2/4 party members dead and another crippled.

And the Humans-vs-AIs bit was very much a long running element in the series, ever since meeting the geth in ME1. As I said, I would've explained it differently, but to say that it was completely detached from previous stuff seems wrong to me.
Even the three primary choices are a reference to classic elements associated with the Reapers, with Destroy representing their scorched earth tactics, Synthesis a form of Saren-like conversion, and Control a reverse-indoctrination.

Certainly it's one of the side themes they explored in the series, most throughly in the Geth vs Quarian arc. The issue is with it is that at that point we've already resolved that particularly narrative element both from an in-universe perspective and from a storytelling perspective. Through the actions you take and the events that occur you've definitively answered the AI vs Organic conflict.

Then in the final sequence they have a brand new character dredges the resolved theme back up in a horribly awkward and hamfisted way.


Though that's not really what I meant when I said "Elements" of the previous games. What I mean is everything is resolved with Shepard alone with a new character, in a new location, using technology that's never explained and feels like magic. And ending would have had

 Lynata wrote:

Chongara wrote:I would have been happy with a dark ending. I would have been happy with a game where the reapers win. A massed battle where we see all the races finally fighting together, only to be easily crushed. The Repears have been telling us for 3 games they're unstoppable - let them be right. Let the galaxy burn.

I guarantee you that this would've led to an even greater gakstorm than what happened already.

The cutscene for when you fail is goosebumps-epic though.

,
Possibly. It would have been a different sort gak storm I think. I'll admit I like heroic sacrifice endings more than average person. I'll also say It certainly still has narrative issues, it's something of an emotional betrayal with all the build up they did. However, at least It'd flow naturally from previous events though which is really what I wanted.

 Lynata wrote:
If that was a reference to something that actually happened in the game, you've embellished it in such a heavy way that leaves me unable to make the connection.

It was a reference to the final sequence of Metal Gear Rising another game with a pants on head stupid final sequence but one which I enjoyed.

 Chongara wrote:
In fact in my view, the ending wasn't dark at all. All 3 endings end the reaper threat and save future cycles.

Four endings really. But I agree. The only "dark" ending, and even that one only temporarily, would be the one where you choose to do nothing and everyone dies (then the next cycle wins instead). Or the ones where your EMS are pathetically low, but meh.

I'm not complaining that it's not dark though, myself.

 Chongara wrote:
The issue was none of it feels terribly natural coming from the series or even the game.

I'm not really sure about this. It felt like it flowed naturally, for me. The cruel decision we had to make at the end of the game-- give up life to synthesize all life to stop wars between organic and synthetic, or give up your body to become a sort of physical god, or end up sacrificing the synthetic life in the galaxy in because you don't trust the Reapers with the other two options-- I was okay with that. The game made you make hard decisions throughout the entire series.

 Chongara wrote:
The execution is so botched the AI amounts to a god

I never got that impression. It sounded more like a confused AI trying to obey its programming, to me.

 Chongara wrote:
I would have been happy with a dark ending. I would have been happy with a game where the reapers win. A massed battle where we see all the races finally fighting together, only to be easily crushed.

That would have been pretty gakky, I'd have HATED that ending.

That is an ending I would have bitched about as much as other people did about the ending we got.

 Melissia wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
In fact in my view, the ending wasn't dark at all. All 3 endings end the reaper threat and save future cycles.

Four endings really. But I agree. The only "dark" ending, and even that one only temporarily, would be the one where you choose to do nothing and everyone dies (then the next cycle wins instead). Or the ones where your EMS are pathetically low, but meh.

I'm not complaining that it's not dark though, myself.

 Chongara wrote:
The issue was none of it feels terribly natural coming from the series or even the game.

I'm not really sure about this. It felt like it flowed naturally, for me. The cruel decision we had to make at the end of the game-- give up life to synthesize all life to stop wars between organic and synthetic, or give up your body to become a sort of physical god, or end up sacrificing the synthetic life in the galaxy in because you don't trust the Reapers with the other two options-- I was okay with that. The game made you make hard decisions throughout the entire series.

 Chongara wrote:
The execution is so botched the AI amounts to a god

I never got that impression. It sounded more like a confused AI trying to obey its programming, to me.

 Chongara wrote:
I would have been happy with a dark ending. I would have been happy with a game where the reapers win. A massed battle where we see all the races finally fighting together, only to be easily crushed.

That would have been pretty gakky, I'd have HATED that ending.

That is an ending I would have bitched about as much as other people did about the ending we got.

That was an actual possible ending if you shoot the AI you get that ending.

You can also get it by telling the catalyst you won't use the crucible.

Ahem, I mentioned that one:

The only "dark" ending, and even that one only temporarily, would be the one where you choose to do nothing and everyone dies (then the next cycle wins instead).

Yes, I include "shoot the AI" as "choose to do nothing".

 Melissia wrote:
I never got that impression. It sounded more like a confused AI trying to obey its programming, to me.

Here's the rub. We're told the whole game the Catalyst is the missing part of the Crucible, the piece that bit that makes the whole thing tick. We know going in that without the catalyst the crucible is effectively useless, pointless. This means that whatever effects are derived from the use of the crucible can in effect, be attributed the catalyst. No matter if these are the facts in-universe or not (the whole thing is far too vaguely defined and unexplained to really say), that's narrative thrust of it. From a storytelling standpoint that's the load that's been put on the catalyst going in.

Enter the Starchild the catalyst. It is not a thing but a character. That's a big problem, a big, big, big problem. See players like me expected the catalyst to resolve things, but we expected it to be something Shepard used or set into motion to resolve things. By making the catalyst a character, they hand the all responsibility for the resolution to that character. Whatever events happen once the catalyst is revealed to be a thinking being now belong to that being, they do not belong to shepard, nor the crew of the normandy, nor the united races of the galaxy, they belong solely and wholly to the Starchild.

The, we have the three colored lights of the ending. These... whatever they were are so poorly defined they seem like magic, they operate outside the rules of the setting. They are so broadly reaching and powerful they're out of scope with anything in the setting. The net result is something so jarringly above and outside the realm of plausibility it may as well be an act of god and because it is the act of a character that character is a god. The Starchild, owning the ending by being the catalyst becomes a god through the scope of the powers it exhibits.

The production around it doesn't help the matter either. Shepard ascending to the stage in a pillar of light, the glowing of the Starchild, the ethereal voice it has with echoes of Shepard's own, the surroundings in the citadel evoking the appearance of a temple complete with altars for the sacrifice of Shepard. Everything about how it's put together has the feel and direction of a spiritual encounter, it had everything short of adding choir voices to the background music.

Everything in the encounter is just of a jarringly different tone and style than everything we've seen up until that point in mass effect.

 Chongara wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I never got that impression. It sounded more like a confused AI trying to obey its programming, to me.

Here's the rub. We're told the whole game the Catalyst is the missing part of the Crucible, the piece that bit that makes the whole thing tick. We know going in that without the catalyst the crucible is effectively useless, pointless. This means that whatever effects are derived from the use of the crucible can in effect, be attributed the catalyst. No matter if these are the facts in-universe or not (the whole thing is far too vaguely defined and unexplained to really say), that's narrative thrust of it. From a storytelling standpoint that's the load that's been put on the catalyst going in.

Enter the Starchild the catalyst. It is not a thing but a character. That's a big problem, a big, big, big problem. See players like me expected the catalyst to resolve things, but we expected it to be something Shepard used or set into motion to resolve things. By making the catalyst a character, they hand the all responsibility for the resolution to that character. Whatever events happen once the catalyst is revealed to be a thinking being now belong to that being, they do not belong to shepard, nor the crew of the normandy, nor the united races of the galaxy, they belong solely and wholly to the Starchild.

The, we have the three colored lights of the ending. These... whatever they were are so poorly defined they seem like magic, they operate outside the rules of the setting. They are so broadly reaching and powerful they're out of scope with anything in the setting. The net result is something so jarringly above and outside the realm of plausibility it may as well be an act of god and because it is the act of a character that character is a god. The Starchild, owning the ending by being the catalyst becomes a god through the scope of the powers it exhibits.

The production around it doesn't help the matter either. The glowing, the ethereal voice with echoes of shepard's own, the surroundings in the citadel evoking the appearance of a temple complete with altars for the sacrifice of shepard.

Everything in the encounter is just of a jarringly different tone and style than everything we've seen up until that point in mass effect.

Ahem.

First of all, the character is a mechanic its an idea. It is a representation of the reapers. It is programmed to work for the reapers. And it was created with a lot of purpose.

If you have played the DLC, you are introduced to the idea, that there is something behind the reapers, controlling them, and part of the collective. There are very heavy implying that the geth and the reapers are very similar.

I've said this before. The reapers are not 1 intelligence, they are a combination of intelligences, the more intelligences inside them, the smarter they become, much like the Geth.

Its not a big problem its actually quite unique. How many games have you collect a sacred object that lets the player have the power to choose. This time for the first time in gaming, that power is taken away from the player.

That is incredible. The game is not suppose to invoke a good feeling upon the player. It was meant to. This game is about sacrifice, and the cost of that sacrifice.

But through that sacrifice . LIfe continues, Just not with that crew. That crew loses its leader. So what. You still have multitudes of other leaders left. The Citadel council is still alive, the entire gaxaly is safe. And your saying it was for all nothing?

You know space magic is just science that has not be explained. We can see it is basically mechanical in origin. So that shoots your idea of it being 'space magic'.

We have no idea how it works, but is it magic? No. Not really.

It just can't be explained. Its a device that has so much power that we have no understanding of it.