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Fragile wrote:
I can say im not sure how that scoring works though. As your 6-2 and ended up higher than a 7-1 player.

Its an artifact of how ToF displays the results. Games 5-8 are bracketed into separate 16 man tournaments based on game 1-4 performance, with the 4-0 records in bracket 1. Then the 3-1 players are in several other brackets, etc. So with how ToF sorts (first by the B column which is for Bracket) there will be winners of a lower bracket (guys who lost 1 but then went undefeated) with better records than the guys in a higher bracket.

Well done on games 1 and 2, though you should have lost game 3, but got lucky as he wasn't quite sure how to play against your army.

All in all congrats.

 winterman wrote:

Fragile wrote:
I can say im not sure how that scoring works though. As your 6-2 and ended up higher than a 7-1 player.

Its an artifact of how ToF displays the results. Games 5-8 are bracketed into separate 16 man tournaments based on game 1-4 performance, with the 4-0 records in bracket 1. Then the 3-1 players are in several other brackets, etc. So with how ToF sorts (first by the B column which is for Bracket) there will be winners of a lower bracket (guys who lost 1 but then went undefeated) with better records than the guys in a higher bracket.

Got it. Thanks.

 Arbiter wrote:
Well done on games 1 and 2, though you should have lost game 3, but got lucky as he wasn't quite sure how to play against your army.

All in all congrats.

I think making a list for a tournament should factor in throwing your opponent off balance. Target confusion is a fantastic way to assist your opponent in making mistakes.

 Arbiter wrote:
Well done on games 1 and 2, though you should have lost game 3, but got lucky as he wasn't quite sure how to play against your army.

All in all congrats.

I agree he had an advantage with Master of Ambush, but my army was designed to pick off many of his KPs. He went all in trying to take out my firebase and my army was more resilient,coupled with his WK mistake it cost him a landslide. That being said, I had the ability to take both WKs and only lose a Riptide if necessary in 2 turns, then we'd have been close to where we ended up and there was only so much real estate. Serpents,the crimson Hunter, and the war Walkers, even the DAs and BikeSeer were all easy KPs for me, and the WKs were mandatory KPs. I only had 6 easy KPs in my army in comparison with the ability to keep them off the table for most of the game.

So many things could have been different, all we have is the result.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Homeskillet wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:
Well done on games 1 and 2, though you should have lost game 3, but got lucky as he wasn't quite sure how to play against your army.

All in all congrats.

I think making a list for a tournament should factor in throwing your opponent off balance. Target confusion is a fantastic way to assist your opponent in making mistakes.

Yep, my second Eldar opponent who was good enough to make it to Semifinals made similar mistakes, granted in that game he had little choice. Well see that game 8.

Game 4 Complete


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Game 5 Complete

i assume at game 5 you coudn't out range enfeble? or reserve your buff commander unit? Anyway tough match up you had. Thank you for sharing

Yea, daemons are super frickin annoying to play against.

O well thems the breaks, sorry you had such a poor match up as well as your (opponents) rolls.

Hopefully the culexus will hit the scene like an iron hammer and stop a lot of these shenanigans.

Ive started using this system for my psycher heavy bugs:


And I genuinely think all Daemon/psycher heavy lists should be required to use a similar system or even a more refined one. Print out psycher powers if $ is the issue, an hour or two in word and you can have cards for all the things youve rolled psychic and gift wise and get on with it.

Sorry to hijack but I read your game 4 and 5 and felt your pain. Writing down each little thing just takes too long in a tourny setting.

To be fair, generating powers for me only took 5 minutes. ...

Personally I dont see how you lost so badly. I see your deployment for that particular fight was not as good as it could be. You should have been farther back to mitigate his R1 alpha strike with your HQ unit, but a S8 beam and blast should not have crippled your army, unless there is something listed in your opponents list that you did not mention.

Devil wrote:i assume at game 5 you coudn't out range enfeble? or reserve your buff commander unit? Anyway tough match up you had. Thank you for sharing

Deploys 24" up, moves 24", range 24". There is absolutely no way to out range it. Reserving it means that I lose Pen Monster Hunter and however long it takes to arrive, and I lose the units I needed for progressive scoring.

Iechine wrote:Ive started using this system for my psycher heavy bugs:

Spoiler:

And I genuinely think all Daemon/psycher heavy lists should be required to use a similar system or even a more refined one. Print out psycher powers if $ is the issue, an hour or two in word and you can have cards for all the things youve rolled psychic and gift wise and get on with it.

Sorry to hijack but I read your game 4 and 5 and felt your pain. Writing down each little thing just takes too long in a tourny setting.

Yes, some kind of method for keeping track of powers is nice.

Master Shake wrote:To be fair, generating powers for me only took 5 minutes. ...

Absolutely, you were super efficient and it didn't take very long. I didn't mean any of my posts to come across differently. It's still a pain for your opponent to keep track of all of your powers, rewards, WC dice etc. And our game was over in under 30 minutes anyway! You may have it down, but that doesn't mean your opponent isn't put in a very unenjoyable position of trying to keep track of a ton of rewards and powers let alone following the WC Pool. It's just a terrible mechanic on GW's part, and I had to deal with it all three games day 2.

Fragile wrote:Personally I dont see how you lost so badly. I see your deployment for that particular fight was not as good as it could be. You should have been farther back to mitigate his R1 alpha strike with your HQ unit, but a S8 beam and blast should not have crippled your army, unless there is something listed in your opponents list that you did not mention.

Well, your opinion is pretty flawed. And how was I going to mitigate his Turn 1? The only thing I could have possible avoided was the Lance. I would of had to deployed along the Board edge. In under 6" of space to avoid the Lance, which would have been my only deployment mistake. Sure, maybe it was doable but it could have guaranteed I wouldn't of had any return fire against anything he wouldn't of wanted me to the next turn and would have made any chance I would of had seizing a non factor. Deploying in that manor guaranteed the loss for me. With 24" move and 24" range powers I had no place to go.

Also, did you miss the fact that he enfeebled the unit, hit me with Bolt of Change, and rolled S6 hits via Warp Storm, and that S8 was enough to ID my now T4 BuffCommander? Then he hit me with the Lance which is the only thing I could have possibly avoided and because of the warpStorm I had no one to LOS to.

I took a calculated risk, and Dice slammed me hard for it. My chance in that game required first turn and the ability to kill the Enfeeble Prince, or getting lucky and DtWig it. But he had as many successes as I had dice...

I was dead in the water before the game started.

If you review the rules for holding the Relic I think you'll find it can't be contested.

I gotcha. Lol

Just giving you gak.

Something g else for readers to consider. However many dice he had, I was casting powers with enough dice to make sure it was impossible to deny. So if he had 3 dice, I would roll 8 to cast.

I'm really enjoying the reports and thank you for taking the time to post them. I do have a question about your list though. I keep seeing what looks like a squad of drones by itself in your pictures, is that a squad you took, or just a dead pile?

Noc

Nocturus wrote:
I'm really enjoying the reports and thank you for taking the time to post them. I do have a question about your list though. I keep seeing what looks like a squad of drones by itself in your pictures, is that a squad you took, or just a dead pile?

Noc

They are his "counts as" Fire Warriors from the Tau allied detachment. That way he maintains the FE all suits and drones theme and can still use the Buffmander.

Hey master shake sent you a pm about a few questions i had.

 Zagman wrote:


Well, your opinion is pretty flawed. And how was I going to mitigate his Turn 1? The only thing I could have possible avoided was the Lance. I would of had to deployed along the Board edge. In under 6" of space to avoid the Lance, which would have been my only deployment mistake. Sure, maybe it was doable but it could have guaranteed I wouldn't of had any return fire against anything he wouldn't of wanted me to the next turn and would have made any chance I would of had seizing a non factor. Deploying in that manor guaranteed the loss for me. With 24" move and 24" range powers I had no place to go.

Also, did you miss the fact that he enfeebled the unit, hit me with Bolt of Change, and rolled S6 hits via Warp Storm, and that S8 was enough to ID my now T4 BuffCommander? Then he hit me with the Lance which is the only thing I could have possibly avoided and because of the warpStorm I had no one to LOS to.

I took a calculated risk, and Dice slammed me hard for it. My chance in that game required first turn and the ability to kill the Enfeeble Prince, or getting lucky and DtWig it. But he had as many successes as I had dice...

I was dead in the water before the game started.

Deploying your HQ unit in the back 6" would have mitigated most of that damage. Bolt of change is 24". It is also a beam, allowing for 1 hit on your unit, properly deployed. Infernal Gateway is 18". Hellfire Gaze is 18". So 1 hit against your unit would cripple you? Yes, the Warp Storm is unfortunate combined with enfeeble but your Commander could have been able to Tank those hits. What am I missing that happened?

 Dozer Blades wrote:
If you review the rules for holding the Relic I think you'll find it can't be contested.

Where does it say anything of the sort? It is an objective that you can move. thats it

I've discussed it with several TOs and the general consensus is that since a model holds it and can drop it you can only take it if it's not in possession of your opponent's army.

 Eldarain wrote:

Nocturus wrote:
I'm really enjoying the reports and thank you for taking the time to post them. I do have a question about your list though. I keep seeing what looks like a squad of drones by itself in your pictures, is that a squad you took, or just a dead pile?

Noc

They are his "counts as" Fire Warriors from the Tau allied detachment. That way he maintains the FE all suits and drones theme and can still use the Buffmander.

Thanks, that makes perfect sence too lol.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I've discussed it with several TOs and the general consensus is that since a model holds it and can drop it you can only take it if it's not in possession of your opponent's army.

What in the rules support that arguement? An objective is controlled by lack of proximity of enemy units. Units dont contest anymore, they just prevent the other side being able to control it.

Dozer Blades wrote:If you review the rules for holding the Relic I think you'll find it can't be contested.

It's treated as a movable Objective, see rules for holding Objectives. This was Nova using Nova rules and and controlling the Relic was worth 5pts. I've seen your posting in the NOVA thread, no need for your slamming or criticism of Nova in this thread. That is how it was ruled and verified by a floor judge. End of conversation, your opinion here is not necessary.

Master Shake wrote:I gotcha. Lol

Just giving you gak.

Something g else for readers to consider. However many dice he had, I was casting powers with enough dice to make sure it was impossible to deny. So if he had 3 dice, I would roll 8 to cast.

Yeah, you certainly were, I had 3 dice and you had 2-3 successes on every powers and when I did throw them it didn't matter, no 6s.

Nocturus wrote:I'm really enjoying the reports and thank you for taking the time to post them. I do have a question about your list though. I keep seeing what looks like a squad of drones by itself in your pictures, is that a squad you took, or just a dead pile?

Noc

Those small Drones are my Counts As Firewarriors to maintain the Suits and drones theme.

Leth wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
If you review the rules for holding the Relic I think you'll find it can't be contested.

Where does it say anything of the sort? It is an objective that you can move. thats it

This, but no need for a debate here.

Fragile wrote:

 Zagman wrote:


Well, your opinion is pretty flawed. And how was I going to mitigate his Turn 1? The only thing I could have possible avoided was the Lance. I would of had to deployed along the Board edge. In under 6" of space to avoid the Lance, which would have been my only deployment mistake. Sure, maybe it was doable but it could have guaranteed I wouldn't of had any return fire against anything he wouldn't of wanted me to the next turn and would have made any chance I would of had seizing a non factor. Deploying in that manor guaranteed the loss for me. With 24" move and 24" range powers I had no place to go.

Also, did you miss the fact that he enfeebled the unit, hit me with Bolt of Change, and rolled S6 hits via Warp Storm, and that S8 was enough to ID my now T4 BuffCommander? Then he hit me with the Lance which is the only thing I could have possibly avoided and because of the warpStorm I had no one to LOS to.

I took a calculated risk, and Dice slammed me hard for it. My chance in that game required first turn and the ability to kill the Enfeeble Prince, or getting lucky and DtWig it. But he had as many successes as I had dice...

I was dead in the water before the game started.

Deploying your HQ unit in the back 6" would have mitigated most of that damage. Bolt of change is 24". It is also a beam, allowing for 1 hit on your unit, properly deployed. Infernal Gateway is 18". Hellfire Gaze is 18". So 1 hit against your unit would cripple you? Yes, the Warp Storm is unfortunate combined with enfeeble but your Commander could have been able to Tank those hits. What am I missing that happened?

Sure, if I spread out completely I could have limited the Bolt of Change to only 2 hits, but doing so would have greatly increased my vulnerability to Flickering Fire and others. Basically he Rolled Bolt of change at S8, had he not done that, or Enfeebled the unit it wouldn't of mattered. And deploying in such a manor would have made seizing the Initiative worthless which is something I needed more. And had the WarpStorm not pummeled me I would have come through the situation in better condition than had I deployed against the board edge.

It was a gamble, it failed. Your armchair quarterbacking isn't necessary and flawed, but what do I know, I was there? You aren't quite understanding just how unforgiving the dice involved were, if it could have gone wrong, it did.

And with a T8 FMC, and two with 4+ FNP, and a 2++ Rerollable Fateweaver and not enough drones to remove cover for HBCTides I was dead in the water after the WarpStorm as a 2+ cover save with a floating Fateweaver reroll is brutal. Once I lost a handful of Markerdrones, MP crisis, or my BuffCommander it was over. He accomplished both of those before the BuffCommander bit it, it just didn't matter at that stage of the game, it was over with Enfeeble, his powers, and him having first turn. My only chance was going first and nuking the Enfeeble Prince.

Hell he had Invisibility and Iron arm on Fateweaver that weren't even important enough to devote WC to cast, lol.

Dozer Blades wrote:I've discussed it with several TOs and the general consensus is that since a model holds it and can drop it you can only take it if it's not in possession of your opponent's army.

Don't care what your interpretation is as it has zero bearing on the game I played or the rulings in place and judge verified.

The truth of the matter is, I got lucky. The dice were on my side and clearly not on Zag's.

It's a game of chance and that's how it goes sometimes.

The important thing is we had a fun game. Since that's what the game is about. HAVING FUN. Don't forget it.

I definitely owe you a rematch next year, Zag.

 Master Shake wrote:
The truth of the matter is, I got lucky. The dice were on my side and clearly not on Zag's.

It's a game of chance and that's how it goes sometimes.

The important thing is we had a fun game. Since that's what the game is about. HAVING FUN. Don't forget it.

I definitely owe you a rematch next year, Zag.

Definitely, I'll have to trek out to Nova again. It was an enjoyable beating, at least as much as possible. All I could do is laugh as everything you tried fell into place and nothing I needed did, hilarity.

It certainly wasn't my game, oh how much damage I could have done with Master of ambush had I snuck first turn.....

I'm not slamming Nova. That's just how a lot of people play it.

I'm quite enjoying this battle reports, just shows what an army can do when it focusses on mastering one phase of the game (shooting in your case, if anyone didn't pick up on that).

That said I feel abit meh, towards you getting your ass handed to you by the Nurgle Daemon list, particularly in light of the savage beat-down you handed out, games 1 & 2. It's all about the pairings, and you got handed a bad one.

The Daemon's 5/10 minutes of pre-game rolls seems to irk lots of people, which seems unfair given daemons essentially have no shooting bar the warp storm. I suscept turn time wise daemons are actually quicker than shooting heavy armies, maybe slightly skewed by summoning armies...

Anyways I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the reports, I feel like I want to start a tau army now from reading them :-P

Tough game five but still an impressive run! Looking forward to the last three games!

 Nevermind wrote:
Tough game five but still an impressive run! Looking forward to the last three games!

Thanks. I've got another tough game in game 6 against a Daemons/Knight army. Basically a Summoning Screamerstar, two units of Horrors, two Slaanesh Grinders, and two Knights. Then games 7 and 8 are more better for me.

 CaptainJay wrote:
I'm quite enjoying this battle reports, just shows what an army can do when it focusses on mastering one phase of the game (shooting in your case, if anyone didn't pick up on that).

That said I feel abit meh, towards you getting your ass handed to you by the Nurgle Daemon list, particularly in light of the savage beat-down you handed out, games 1 & 2. It's all about the pairings, and you got handed a bad one.

The Daemon's 5/10 minutes of pre-game rolls seems to irk lots of people, which seems unfair given daemons essentially have no shooting bar the warp storm. I suscept turn time wise daemons are actually quicker than shooting heavy armies, maybe slightly skewed by summoning armies...

Anyways I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the reports, I feel like I want to start a tau army now from reading them :-P

I agree. It's always nice to see a bend over you opponent 6th edition Tau list get bent over in 7th and then the Tau player whining about it. Tau is a list which literally breaks all sorts of core 40k rules and because of that they lose any and all forms of complaining about an opponents army.