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 Tigramans wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

It's impossible to invade and sack the Dark City. The engagement would only be on Dark Eldar terms, and the best way to describe the City is as a miniature distilled Eye of Terror. The only way the Imperium could kill the Dark Eldar is by sending a bunch of Librarians into it and ripping open a portal to the warp and unleashing Slaanesh into the Dark City.

In that case, I stand corrected.

 Wyzilla wrote:

Craftworld Eldar live on Craftworlds and well, unless the Craftworld Eldar are refueling, they're untouchable and the Imperium can never engage them. Craftworld Eldar are far too mobile for even an fully mobilized Imperium to ever kill off. Precog coupled with being post scarcity makes one untouchable like that.

What about Idharae, Mor-Rioh'i, and Thuyelsa?

Idharae was invaded by the Legion of the Damned, IE the immortal, invincible ghost warriors who can only be banished and not destroyed. Also, those were probably caught while refueling near dying stars, or sacked because of plot convenience. A competent Craftworld realistically written should be impossible to engage due to Eldar having precog, and Craftworlds being able to hide in the webway and relocate themselves almost anywhere in the galaxy.

 mattyrm wrote:
Over a million worlds, the numbers are colossal compared to every other race, even the Tyranids and Orks.

If the imperium actually squared itself away and went balls out at any of them, they could massively feth their gak up, but we dont analyse the fluff too much or it would end the story.

gak, remember that fluff in the DE codex about how sneaky Vect orchestrated an imperial raid and in the aftermath nearly ALL of the noble houses of the city had been destroyed in the assault so he got to take over?

Wasn't that like.. three chapters or something?

Imagine if they dropped like.. 800 chapters and 20,000 Imperial Guard regiments into Commoragh!

Now imagine if Vect didn't leave the right door open and all those people get trapped in a time-loop within the webway for the rest of eternity. Or he lead them out into the middle of a Sun, or locked them in with Daemons or whatever fun things Vect likes to do to people who displease him in his spare time. Another thing to note is that the Space Marines themselves only killed a single Nobel, and that's because Vect dropped an *entire* ship on him, the actual nobles were killed off by Vect. Another thing is that the Space Marines were losing that fight, quite badly in fact, before Vect let them get away.

Unless aided by some Dark or Craftworld Eldar it is all but impossible for the Imperium to get to the Dark Eldar as Commaragh is unassailable without inside knowledge, which is just how the Dark Eldar like it.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Over a million worlds, the numbers are colossal compared to every other race, even the Tyranids and Orks.

If the imperium actually squared itself away and went balls out at any of them, they could massively feth their gak up, but we dont analyse the fluff too much or it would end the story.

gak, remember that fluff in the DE codex about how sneaky Vect orchestrated an imperial raid and in the aftermath nearly ALL of the noble houses of the city had been destroyed in the assault so he got to take over?

Wasn't that like.. three chapters or something?

Imagine if they dropped like.. 800 chapters and 20,000 Imperial Guard regiments into Commoragh!

Now imagine if Vect didn't leave the right door open and all those people get trapped in a time-loop within the webway for the rest of eternity. Or he lead them out into the middle of a Sun, or locked them in with Daemons or whatever fun things Vect likes to do to people who displease him in his spare time. Another thing to note is that the Space Marines themselves only killed a single Nobel, and that's because Vect dropped an *entire* ship on him, the actual nobles were killed off by Vect. Another thing is that the Space Marines were losing that fight, quite badly in fact, before Vect let them get away.

Unless aided by some Dark or Craftworld Eldar it is all but impossible for the Imperium to get to the Dark Eldar as Commaragh is unassailable without inside knowledge, which is just how the Dark Eldar like it.

Unless the Imperium figures out how to collapse the Webway. I'd imagine having billions of Eldar souls suddenly at his/her mercy would make Slaanesh a very happy wo/man.

Otherwise, yes, the Dark Eldar are nigh untouchable in their creepy little town.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Over a million worlds, the numbers are colossal compared to every other race, even the Tyranids and Orks.

If the imperium actually squared itself away and went balls out at any of them, they could massively feth their gak up, but we dont analyse the fluff too much or it would end the story.

gak, remember that fluff in the DE codex about how sneaky Vect orchestrated an imperial raid and in the aftermath nearly ALL of the noble houses of the city had been destroyed in the assault so he got to take over?

Wasn't that like.. three chapters or something?

Imagine if they dropped like.. 800 chapters and 20,000 Imperial Guard regiments into Commoragh!

Now imagine if Vect didn't leave the right door open and all those people get trapped in a time-loop within the webway for the rest of eternity. Or he lead them out into the middle of a Sun, or locked them in with Daemons or whatever fun things Vect likes to do to people who displease him in his spare time. Another thing to note is that the Space Marines themselves only killed a single Nobel, and that's because Vect dropped an *entire* ship on him, the actual nobles were killed off by Vect. Another thing is that the Space Marines were losing that fight, quite badly in fact, before Vect let them get away.

Unless aided by some Dark or Craftworld Eldar it is all but impossible for the Imperium to get to the Dark Eldar as Commaragh is unassailable without inside knowledge, which is just how the Dark Eldar like it.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Commorragh_Raid#.VBY6QfldV8E

It's your codex so you will have to enlighten me, but is Lexicanum (despite citing sources at the foot of the page) completely wrong? You say "another thing to note is that the Space Marines themselves only killed a single Nobel, and that's because Vect dropped an *entire* ship on him" and I read "nearly all of the noble houses of the Dark City had been destroyed in the assault, so it was that the Kabal of the Black Heart rose to ascendancy in place of the old nobility"

You say "Another thing is that the Space Marines were losing that fight, quite badly in fact, before Vect let them get away" and I read "unknown to Lord Xelian, Salamander Librarian Hestion was sending out a psychic distress beacon to the rest of his chapter from within the captured Strike Cruiser. Though the Dark Eldar found it easy to enter the Forgehammer, they were met with stiff resistance once inside and Xelian was quick to realize that he had underestimated his quarry. On the sixteenth day of the siege, the skies above Commorragh burst open. The Salamanders had received Librarian Hestion's distress call and used the psychic beacon to find their way to the Dark City itself. So began a bloody day for the Dark City. Moreover the Salamanders had not come alone, accompanying their Battle Barge were Strike Cruisers from the Howling Griffons and Silver Skulls"

Followed by several paragraphs telling how the Space Marines, though hopelessly outnumbered beyond count, absolutely smashed thousands of Dark Eldar to bloody ruin, and had some terminators bring down no less than 9 spires. Then after (16 days!) it became clear the Space Marines would not be able to hold out indefinitely against the massive numbers of foes arrayed against them, they managed to escape.

Apparently all that is from the 5th edition codex.. but Im open to other interpratations, where did you get "The space marines lost badly but then Vect let them all get away" from? And why WOULD he let them get away anyway when he likes torturing people?!

 mattyrm wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Over a million worlds, the numbers are colossal compared to every other race, even the Tyranids and Orks.

If the imperium actually squared itself away and went balls out at any of them, they could massively feth their gak up, but we dont analyse the fluff too much or it would end the story.

gak, remember that fluff in the DE codex about how sneaky Vect orchestrated an imperial raid and in the aftermath nearly ALL of the noble houses of the city had been destroyed in the assault so he got to take over?

Wasn't that like.. three chapters or something?

Imagine if they dropped like.. 800 chapters and 20,000 Imperial Guard regiments into Commoragh!

Now imagine if Vect didn't leave the right door open and all those people get trapped in a time-loop within the webway for the rest of eternity. Or he lead them out into the middle of a Sun, or locked them in with Daemons or whatever fun things Vect likes to do to people who displease him in his spare time. Another thing to note is that the Space Marines themselves only killed a single Nobel, and that's because Vect dropped an *entire* ship on him, the actual nobles were killed off by Vect. Another thing is that the Space Marines were losing that fight, quite badly in fact, before Vect let them get away.

Unless aided by some Dark or Craftworld Eldar it is all but impossible for the Imperium to get to the Dark Eldar as Commaragh is unassailable without inside knowledge, which is just how the Dark Eldar like it.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Commorragh_Raid#.VBY6QfldV8E

It's your codex so you will have to enlighten me, but is Lexicanum (despite citing sources at the foot of the page) completely wrong? You say "another thing to note is that the Space Marines themselves only killed a single Nobel, and that's because Vect dropped an *entire* ship on him" and I read "nearly all of the noble houses of the Dark City had been destroyed in the assault, so it was that the Kabal of the Black Heart rose to ascendancy in place of the old nobility"

You say "Another thing is that the Space Marines were losing that fight, quite badly in fact, before Vect let them get away" and I read "unknown to Lord Xelian, Salamander Librarian Hestion was sending out a psychic distress beacon to the rest of his chapter from within the captured Strike Cruiser. Though the Dark Eldar found it easy to enter the Forgehammer, they were met with stiff resistance once inside and Xelian was quick to realize that he had underestimated his quarry. On the sixteenth day of the siege, the skies above Commorragh burst open. The Salamanders had received Librarian Hestion's distress call and used the psychic beacon to find their way to the Dark City itself. So began a bloody day for the Dark City. Moreover the Salamanders had not come alone, accompanying their Battle Barge were Strike Cruisers from the Howling Griffons and Silver Skulls"

Followed by several paragraphs telling how the Space Marines, though hopelessly outnumbered beyond count, absolutely smashed thousands of Dark Eldar to bloody ruin, and had some terminators bring down no less than 9 spires. Then after (16 days!) it became clear the Space Marines would not be able to hold out indefinitely against the massive numbers of foes arrayed against them, they managed to escape.

Apparently all that is from the 5th edition codex.. but Im open to other interpratations, where did you get "The space marines lost badly but then Vect let them all get away" from? And why WOULD he let them get away anyway when he likes torturing people?!

The Salamanders also invaded the Dark City at a later time to rescue their abducted Chaplain who, while the rescue party was trying to find a way in, sacked his way through an arena and killed a Wych.

The problem however is that the Dark City is multi-layered, and DE can recover from death pretty quickly. The only way the Imperium could hope to destroy the city is for either a bunch of powerful psykers to tear a hole through the webway to let Slaanesh in, or somehow open up a permanent portal that cannot be closed.

As i am sure you well know, Lexicantum is anything but thorough in it's detail, and it's sorely lacking the parts of the fluff which set almost all of the Space Marines ''luck'' as the doing of Vect.

Firstly, the imperial reinforcements would never of made it into Commaragh without Vect, because when the reinforcements got to the Webway Gate they found the Guards slain and the controls locked open.

Secondly i will cite how each Noble died, First one of them got a ship dropped on their head. Secondly one of them got hit by a ''stray'' Blast of Darklight (Although this Archon was kicking some Astartes ass ''killing with each strike of his powered blade''). And the final one, during the final assault when the wyches joined in and things started to go bad for the Marines (it was going ok for them until then), when the Marines retreated instead of following them the Wyches turned around and slaughtered the Dark Eldar Nobel and his warriors.

Thirdly it missed out the crucial piece of fluff that the Magnetic Spars locking the ships in place were *Disengaged* one by one. Then, as the Marines were retreating and the rest of the Dark Eldar were readying their fleets for pursuit, Vects Dark Eldar turned on the rest of the Dark Eldar, caught between him and a Battle Barge they had no chance.

Sure, the Space Marines held a good account of themselves vs the Hive Gangers and the Kabalites, but the codex states that when Wyches jumped in, the Space Marines started to take ''Heavy Casualties'' and they were on the losing ground at the end. And the moral of the story? Don't F8ck with Vect or he will drop a Battle Barge on your head...