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Rhinos. There not supposed to be unkillable, but dependable and mobile. There very light vehicles because there deployed very close to the enemy via thunderhawk. This allows SMs to get in their enemies face quickly, and remain mobile.

Instead there slow, under armored and out gunned. They should make all upgrades 5 points, make HKs sky fire and give all rhinos either infiltrate or scout.

 Psienesis wrote:
All Eldar/Dark Eldar, given their super-human agility, should be granted an automatic 5++ against basically anything that shoots, explodes, flames, etc. They are just that fast.

All Space Marines should have IWND/FNP and, base, be 2+ W. They should, perhaps more accurately, be given a 2++ against any small-arm on the table. That would include the basic weapons that are part of just about any army's list of wargear for their basic troops. Necrons would maybe bump this to a 4++ or 5++. It is noted that PA provides immunity to up to 85% of incoming fire from all but the strongest weapons found on the battlefields of the 41st millennium.

Necrons should just have a base 4++ across the board. They don't have organs, and their bodies heal themselves almost instantly. It takes a lot to put a Necron down, and *then* they Resurrect or Phase Out.

I'm okay with these changes as long as I can bring approx 1,000 gants or 100 genestealers per space marine/eldar/necron you get. That's about fluff proportions. Tyranids are widely described as so numerous, your only hope to defeat them is to remove their synapse creatures

Hence my idea of army-wide SITNW rules for the horde-based armies (Guard in certain Formations, Nid, Ork). You just keep throwing bodies at the problem until all your commander-type units (Nobs, Officers, Synapse, whatever) are wiped out.

Probably, while I'm just making gak up here, make it like a d6 roll at the beginning of the turn. On a 4 you get 1 unit, on a 5 you get 2 and on a 6 you get 3, but they have to be able to fit in your deployment zone, and would have to be a Troops unit. You would also be required to actually have the models available to deploy (so hopefully you're taking large casualties on the front, or have a large collection).

I could only imagine what type of game 40k would be if all these changes were implemented. It would suck for any of the horde armies though. I would not want to paint that many models. It almost makes me want to take some of these rules and run some mock games of them to see how it would come out.

Don't think I know anyone with that much of IG, Orks or Tyranids though...

Don't think I know anyone with that much of IG, Orks or Tyranids though...

There has to be some incentive for GW in this, of course (that being huge pectoral musc- er, I mean, model sales).

Not that I expect any of these things to ever happen, of course, because (as GW explains) all the fluff is lies, myths, legends, propaganda, half-truths and rumors.

The tale of 5 Space Marines taking a planet cheerfully neglects to mention the fifty-five million Guardsmen that deployed with them.

The tales of vast swarms of Tyranids filling the sky and reaching across the galactic expanse is... well... exaggerated, to put it plainly. Sure, there's Tyranids. A few million of them show up to take a planet. But that't it. That's the Hive Fleet. Kill off 800,000 and you've pretty much crippled that Fleet for the time being. Bugs stretching across the void of deep space between galaxies? Nah. Not happening. Just nightmarish conjecture of fear-maddened astropaths bearing no resemblance to reality.

The story of one Chapter Master single-handedly defeating a Greater Daemon fails to mention that the CM lost one arm, two lungs, one of his hearts and half his face, while the Daemon *also* wiped out forty-seven other Space Marines in that desperate battle, and the only reason the CM actually won was, basically, pure dumb luck. Battle Brother Schmendrik's Plasma Cannon exploded, which temporarily blinded the Daemon, which permitted the CM to throw a grenade into its gaping maw with his remaining hand.

One million Space Marines? Lolznaw. There's hundreds of millions of these guys. The Imperium just likes to build up the legends of these mass-produced super-soldiers. 50 of them launch a crusade that cleanses three dozen systems of Xenos? Lulz. No. Like, nine Chapters. Fifteen million Space Marines, their fleets, their Serfs, and supported by the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Guard. You think the Inquisition is going to dispel the myth that keeps countless planets in check? No. Planetary Governors who even *think* about rebelling gak themselves when they see *one* Space Marine. Fear keeps the local systems in line... and the occasional example is made of worlds like Badab who try to test the Imperial line.

 Psienesis wrote:

Don't think I know anyone with that much of IG, Orks or Tyranids though...

There has to be some incentive for GW in this, of course (that being huge pectoral musc- er, I mean, model sales).

Not that I expect any of these things to ever happen, of course, because (as GW explains) all the fluff is lies, myths, legends, propaganda, half-truths and rumors.

The tale of 5 Space Marines taking a planet cheerfully neglects to mention the fifty-five million Guardsmen that deployed with them.

The tales of vast swarms of Tyranids filling the sky and reaching across the galactic expanse is... well... exaggerated, to put it plainly. Sure, there's Tyranids. A few million of them show up to take a planet. But that't it. That's the Hive Fleet. Kill off 800,000 and you've pretty much crippled that Fleet for the time being. Bugs stretching across the void of deep space between galaxies? Nah. Not happening. Just nightmarish conjecture of fear-maddened astropaths bearing no resemblance to reality.

The story of one Chapter Master single-handedly defeating a Greater Daemon fails to mention that the CM lost one arm, two lungs, one of his hearts and half his face, while the Daemon *also* wiped out forty-seven other Space Marines in that desperate battle, and the only reason the CM actually won was, basically, pure dumb luck. Battle Brother Schmendrik's Plasma Cannon exploded, which temporarily blinded the Daemon, which permitted the CM to throw a grenade into its gaping maw with his remaining hand.

One million Space Marines? Lolznaw. There's hundreds of millions of these guys. The Imperium just likes to build up the legends of these mass-produced super-soldiers. 50 of them launch a crusade that cleanses three dozen systems of Xenos? Lulz. No. Like, nine Chapters. Fifteen million Space Marines, their fleets, their Serfs, and supported by the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Guard. You think the Inquisition is going to dispel the myth that keeps countless planets in check? No. Planetary Governors who even *think* about rebelling gak themselves when they see *one* Space Marine. Fear keeps the local systems in line... and the occasional example is made of worlds like Badab who try to test the Imperial line.

Psienesis: Keeping the reality check of Warhammer 40k fluff. I think that is something we have to remember when thinking about the galaxy at large and something that seems to be forgotten as we read about the heroes and villains of the universe.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

Current TT balance is fine-ish, imo, fluffwise included.

I am sure you think it is, given how much it favours IG - arguably more than any other race.

Last I checked the Meta, IG and everyone else were getting their butts mounted over the Eldar fireplace.

Points costs do not exist in the fluff. In reasonably equal numbers, the Eldar -should- slaughter IG effortlessly.

@Psienesis: Clearly what you are asserting is lies and propaganda. The truth is that there's ten Marines in the galaxy and they do more to defend it than the Guard ever could.

What about the Scions? They're able to ambush Eldars and rush to the rescue of Space Marines.

Rumours and propaganda.

Yeah, sure, like those ten marines earlier.

Aye, it was actually just one Marine. They added the nine others as they thought the feat would be too much above the common man. By being ten instead, it becomes more likely and thus more inspiring, since it is easier to replicate the deed.

Were they the ten marines that the Scion had to bail out from a Hellbrute and a Helldrake?

Ah, that was not actually Marines, it was just the Planetary Governor's prized life-size Marine statues. The guardsman who took the pic had never seen them before and thought they were the real deal, and the details got lost in the Administratum.

There's actually only one space marine. He's a billion AU in length, and floats through space. The things people mistake for space marines are actually his antibodies marching out of his bloodstream- nanomarines.

Also, Eldar without point limits would stop everyone flat.

For Tau:

Aun'Shi: this guy is the best melee fighter in the Tau Empire; he knows basically every bladed combat techniques (was recently captured by the Dark Eldar and put to fight in their arenas). But he's quite killable (T3, lel). It's a bit better in challenge, but still... His weapon doesn't even have AP.

Cadre Fireblade: the need to be stationary for Volley Fire is a serious letdown - we know Tau like mobility and don't place too much value in holding territory. He's locked in a gunline way to fight - something much more AM-like.

Devilfish: developed for quickly reposition of Tau infantry, isn't Fast and is pretty costly.

Both flyers: they simply don't deliver what the fluff promises. Razorshark (the fighter) should be more maneuverable (Vector Dancer). Sunshark (the bomber) is too weak to kill anything important - it's drones (now nerfed because of new Interceptor/Skyfire interaction) were the main reason to field it at all.

Railguns: should hit stuff in lines (like any railgun in any videogame), hitting more than 1 unit. Positioning would be key, forcing the enemy to change its plan or lose a lot of stuff in one shot.

[edit] Forgot Stealth Suits: They're too costly for what they can do (almost a chaos termie). They should give less BS and WS to enemy attacking them (like Culexus Assassin, but -2 WS/BS is enough). They're almost invisible, after all.

Railguns: should hit stuff in lines (like any railgun in any videogame), hitting more than 1 unit. Positioning would be key, forcing the enemy to change its plan or lose a lot of stuff in one shot.

So should lascannons, at least vs Infantry. That armor-melting beam should simply cause anyone with water in their bodies to explode into a super-heated cloud of bloody steam as the beam just basically ignores the fact that they were standing there until it hits something really tough (like a tank) and expends its thermo-kinetic power blasting it into slag.

The idea of a railgun going through multiple bodies depends entirely on the target, size of the round, and velocity of the ground. At such velocities and hitting something like a space marine, the railgun slug would probably explode.