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So for those of us that are avid BL, I am sure we all have our favorite things to read about. Things in the fluff that you read about or listen to and just makes you think "That is totally awesome" so much that you want to run them in your actual 40k army only to find out they are not that awesome on the tabletop. For me, it's Terminators and Dreadnoughts. Terminators are considered sub-par because to simplify the argument: Their cost to benefit ratio is low. It is the reason why as a GK player when the new codex came out and GK got the most viable Terminator units, I got giddy but I still would probably never run Terminators in my Imperial Fist detachment. They cost too much to try in fit in where I could fit in other stuff like Centurions. Dreadnoughts are roughly the same way, except when you see them, it isn't the way that it is presented in the fluff. In the fluff, they always just have a heavy weapon or possibly even both hands with a flamer and then the power fist and you read about how they wreck face in combat. On the tabletop, if you aren't running the Blood Angels Furioso then you are running a Dreadnought with two TL Autocannons. It just dampers the effect of what you want out of the unit. I know you can still put these two in your army and still be fine but you would never see them in a tournament list unless, for Terminators it is a GK list or a Deathwing list.

So Dakka, what units and other stuff does the fluff sources make sound really awesome that you would wish to translate better on the tabletop?

Baneblade and artillery with actual accuracy and range.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Baneblade and artillery with actual accuracy and range.

I thought Baneblades were pretty awesome, I just had someone tell me how they thought taking an Imperial Knight was stupid and that all I needed was a Baneblade.

 Envihon wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Baneblade and artillery with actual accuracy and range.

I thought Baneblades were pretty awesome, I just had someone tell me how they thought taking an Imperial Knight was stupid and that all I needed was a Baneblade.

If you can bring a Baneblade, that means somebody can also bring something like a Warhound. They're cool tanks, but they get outclassed fast as lords of war.

Also, Warp Talons. Fluff-wise they're Raptors who went so chaotic they now count as daemons, and can teleport through the warp. Yet they suck balls on the table and eat up points faster then adding multiple Predators.

Nephilim "air superiority" Jetfighter. 'dis from Lexicanum:

In 146.M41 the Ravenwing formation was tasked with special reconnaissance missions during a massive tank battle between the Imperial Guard and Eldar on Kundra. After pressing deep into Eldar territory, the Dark Angels found themselves beset on all sides by the xenos' Grav-tanks. However with the aid of Nephilim jetfighters, the Ravenwing was able to clear the skies of the flying tanks and Jetbikes and win the day

Good luck taking out Wave Serpents with Nephs.

You are going to need it

Nobz are supposed to be really good in fluff... They have no place in almost any list

I think the space marine game did nobz justice, most were tough as nails until you got overpowered specialist guns out and then wasted their ammo on grunt bosses.

Feel the same with dreads and terminators.

terminators- unstoppable in fluff Die to stiff breeze in TT.

marines- Tough as hell in fluff- Die to light breeze in TT

Rhino- mankinds heaviest and most armored troop transport in fluff (barring land raiders) weak as sht in TT

Dreadnaughts- one of the most killy walkers out there in fluff... meh on TT better for shooting

Eldar- actually pretty decent fluff to TT here

Tau- Pretty decent, most things function as fluff

CSM- Marines running away... Possessed Marines are laughable, they are scary as hell in fluff

Orks- boyz running away... why? they don't ever run in fluff hardly

IG- guardsmen die to slowly ;P

 raiden wrote:
terminators- unstoppable in fluff Die to stiff breeze in TT.

marines- Tough as hell in fluff- Die to light breeze in TT

Rhino- mankinds heaviest and most armored troop transport in fluff (barring land raiders) weak as sht in TT

Dreadnaughts- one of the most killy walkers out there in fluff... meh on TT better for shooting

Eldar- actually pretty decent fluff to TT here

Tau- Pretty decent, most things function as fluff

CSM- Marines running away... Possessed Marines are laughable, they are scary as hell in fluff

Orks- boyz running away... why? they don't ever run in fluff hardly

IG- guardsmen die to slowly ;P

Actually it's the reverse Eldar. They're terrible in the fluff and go down to a stiff breeze (Phoenix Lord gets ganked by a group of Night Lord Vets), yet on TT they're monsters.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Nephilim "air superiority" Jetfighter. 'dis from Lexicanum:

In 146.M41 the Ravenwing formation was tasked with special reconnaissance missions during a massive tank battle between the Imperial Guard and Eldar on Kundra. After pressing deep into Eldar territory, the Dark Angels found themselves beset on all sides by the xenos' Grav-tanks. However with the aid of Nephilim jetfighters, the Ravenwing was able to clear the skies of the flying tanks and Jetbikes and win the day

Good luck taking out Wave Serpents with Nephs.

You are going to need it

In fluff eldar have other stuff rather than just wave serpents.

Eldar have utterly horrific fluff, it's true.

I'll go ahead and be "that guy" and say

Space Marines.

 koooaei wrote:
In fluff eldar have other stuff rather than just wave serpents.

And the Nephilim is garbage against all of them.

Tyranids in general. Lictors disembowling planetary leaders and escaping unscathed, Carnifexes eating missiles and smashing through defensive buildings and tank columns with ease. A carpet of intermeshed termagants and hormagaunts so thick it literally rises and falls and swells and rolls like water. Zoanthropes that shoot barrages of mind bullets and cause psychic backlash like the TT Tervigon when they die. Mawlocs and Trygons being unstoppable engines of destruction, AFTER they surface. The Swarmlord being an unparalleled hand to hand combat master. Tyrant guard actually being tough.

Skyblight has fixed the fluff issue that whole swarms (including the gants) would develop wings to counteract fast or flying enemies and the formations lead by Warriors has fixed the fluff issue of Warriors actually being rare synapse characters (like the Prime should be) that coordinate and direct lower organisms to better accomplish their task (i.e. living artillery node)

1 carnifex with crushing claws will eat a 3 man unit of leman russes in 2 turns. Tops

 bocatt wrote:
Tyranids in general. Lictors disembowling planetary leaders and escaping unscathed, Carnifexes eating missiles and smashing through defensive buildings and tank columns with ease. A carpet of intermeshed termagants and hormagaunts so thick it literally rises and falls and swells and rolls like water. Zoanthropes that shoot barrages of mind bullets and cause psychic backlash like the TT Tervigon when they die. Mawlocs and Trygons being unstoppable engines of destruction, AFTER they surface. The Swarmlord being an unparalleled hand to hand combat master. Tyrant guard actually being tough.

Carnifexes and Genestealers are probably the worst for this, as they are not even close to their effectiveness in the fluff. The lack of numeracy in lesser creatures is because it's already a slow and painful process to play with multiple broods of 30, which I can understand. Also Shadow in the Warp and supposed Tyranid psychic mastery are greatly different.

For me, it's Warp Spiders, Howling Banshees, Defilers, Land Raiders, Terminators, Dreadnoughts, Baneblades (which aren't too bad, just not quite right), Sisters (people may argue that they are decent now, but they are certainly not as feared as they should be), most power weapons (something that can cut through power armour like it's nothing shouldn't be Str User) and chainswords (equally as effective as punching), snipers (36''?), Crimson Hunters, and all kinds of psyker (because random powers suck). Special mention should be made for Riptides, Wraithknights, Wraithlords and Dreadknights because robots and golems should not be Monstrous Creatures.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Nephilim "air superiority" Jetfighter. 'dis from Lexicanum:

In 146.M41 the Ravenwing formation was tasked with special reconnaissance missions during a massive tank battle between the Imperial Guard and Eldar on Kundra. After pressing deep into Eldar territory, the Dark Angels found themselves beset on all sides by the xenos' Grav-tanks. However with the aid of Nephilim jetfighters, the Ravenwing was able to clear the skies of the flying tanks and Jetbikes and win the day

Good luck taking out Wave Serpents with Nephs.

You are going to need it

Right in the feels .....

Space marine armour both power/termies.

Fluff there walking tanks, able to wistand insane amounts of damage and shrug off hits, destroy any foe in combat.

Nope, does not match.

Possessed and Daemonhosts, full stop. In the fluff, they're terrifying. In the game, they suck. Sooo much wasted opportunity.

Terrible in the game - awesome in the fluff:

Wyches - they have been relegated to tank hunters as they are poor in hth - wtf..... they are even WS4

Genestealers - especially since Space Hulk is out again and shows how awesome they are - now they just die and are only average in HTH.

Howling Banshees - devastating close combat troops that never get there as A) no one fileds them, B) their armour/T gets them killed as they either have to run or stand around after getting out of their ride.

Celestins - Elite battle sisters who are great on CC - in the fluff - and sooo not in the TT.

see a pattern here..............

Boltguns, mass reactive shells blowing up plenty of shizzle in fluff but on table top .. eh.

Space Marines. (The entire faction.)

Chaos Space Marines. (Almost the entire faction.)

Most Daemons.

Many Eldar.

Many Dark Eldar.

Many Tyranids.

Most Necrons.

Some Orks.

I am glad to find that I am not the only one bothered by the lack of awesomeness when it comes to Terminators and Dreadnoughts along with other units. So, second part of the question, what would be the best way to correct these problems without making over-powered units?

Ok, lets see:

Every vehicle getting a hull point boost

Dreads getting a +1 to WS, BS and armour, after all, they are supposed to be ancient, walking relics right?!

Power armour being better

IG getting higher BS, along with Tau

Lowering WS of Tau and IG

Dunno about the rest, I play imperium so...

Dannyrulx, I feel that it is important to note that you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some tart in a lake threw a sword at you.

For the Tau, most railgun weapons are underpowered on the tabletop considering the fluff has them punching through both ends of tanks and other assorted nonsense.

Also, engagements at huge range.

That said, 40k is always at knife-fight distance where anything larger than a machinegun is concerned.

C'tan

So...they are powerful demigods who can warp reality around them, and yet they are no tougher than an oversized cockroach with armor plating.

From a Tyranid perspective (and mostly in agreement with the above)

Hive Tyrants on the ground are described as being incredibly hard to put down (physically tough and sustained by the Hive Mind). Time for better armour and maybe even an Invulnerable Save?

Lictors are lone predators that are almost impossible to detect and are lethally dangerous if they manage to ambush their chosen target. All Lictors should be using Deathleaper-esque rules.

Genestealers should be faster, stealthier and a whole lot nastier. Incredibly vulnerable to fire is fine and part of their character, but if they reach you then unless your wearing Terminator Armour or are a Harlequin then you should be lucky to escape alive.

Hormagaunts need to be able to overpower a Guardsman in melee one on one, but that's about it. The real point is vast, vast numbers

Carnifexes really need to get back to their roots. Recent novels really do them justice, but on the tabletop you just don't see it outside of the Dakkafex (and even they fold like paper in today's world). T6/4W/3+ just isn't what it used to be.


Really very little in the Tyranid Codex plays like it should. The armylist and the fluff have diverged more and more.

Yeh, you'd think an important command creature for the Hive Mind would have some sort of protective psychic field.
Don't Zoanthropes have one? Isn't a Hive Tyrant almost as psychically gifted as a zoan?

Isn't a Hive Tyrant almost as psychically gifted as a zoan?

Used to be an option but GW obviously felt that was too much - for reasons..................

Oh yeah, Scions, too, their fluff has them doing some rather fancy stuff, but on the TT, eeeeeeeeh, lets just say I am not going to play at more than 1k points with e'm.