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 Frazzled wrote:
Trying to figure out why this one didn't go to charges.

Any argument to resisting arrest ends shortly after this guy is surrounded.

I don't see a racism angle. I see bad policing to the level of criminality.

Agreed.

I thought I heard on radio that they're going to release the GJ reports. I tried google-fuing, but I'm not seeing anything... have you?

 Frazzled wrote:
Trying to figure out why this one didn't go to charges.

Any argument to resisting arrest ends shortly after this guy is surrounded.

I don't see a racism angle. I see bad policing to the level of criminality.

Maybe they were thinking along the lines of that it was a combination of a long series of unfortunate events that had the un-forseen consequence of leading to the suspects death.
An incident like that should certainly lead to introspection and more than a quick once-over of the procedures in place, but wouldn't justify bringing charges against any single officer.

Please note, I am not trying to defend anybody here. My previous posts on this subject are clear. I am merely trying to take a guess at what they might have been thinking.

The NYPD stated that no cause to indict was found, as LEOs are allowed to use lethal force when allowing a suspect to escape could legitimately lead to the death or injury of other citizens. "Mr. Garner was selling cigarettes and that surgeon general's warning ain't there for nothin'. In a city as densely populated as NYC, the second hand smoke would have killed billions" said the chief.

avatarofawesome wrote:
The NYPD stated that no cause to indict was found, as LEOs are allowed to use lethal force when allowing a suspect to escape could legitimately lead to the death or injury of other citizens. "Mr. Garner was selling cigarettes and that surgeon general's warning ain't there for nothin'. In a city as densely populated as NYC, the second hand smoke would have killed billions" said the chief.

And this is probably true knowing the NYC Police Department.

Steelmage99 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Trying to figure out why this one didn't go to charges.

Any argument to resisting arrest ends shortly after this guy is surrounded.

I don't see a racism angle. I see bad policing to the level of criminality.

Maybe they were thinking along the lines of that it was a combination of a long series of unfortunate events that had the un-forseen consequence of leading to the suspects death.
An incident like that should certainly lead to introspection and more than a quick once-over of the procedures in place, but wouldn't justify bringing charges against any single officer.

Please note, I am not trying to defend anybody here. My previous posts on this subject are clear. I am merely trying to take a guess at what they might have been thinking.

I hear you. In many departments there needs to be a serious cultural and management shift from "policing" to community policing: aka don't let it get to the point you need a violent takedown of someone ESPECIALLY for a minor charge. That involves training, management, and a complete cultural shift.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting if you really look at the video, he's not complaining badly until the swarm of officers on him, especially the one pressing on his chest.

 Frazzled wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Trying to figure out why this one didn't go to charges.

Any argument to resisting arrest ends shortly after this guy is surrounded.

I don't see a racism angle. I see bad policing to the level of criminality.

Maybe they were thinking along the lines of that it was a combination of a long series of unfortunate events that had the un-forseen consequence of leading to the suspects death.
An incident like that should certainly lead to introspection and more than a quick once-over of the procedures in place, but wouldn't justify bringing charges against any single officer.

Please note, I am not trying to defend anybody here. My previous posts on this subject are clear. I am merely trying to take a guess at what they might have been thinking.

I hear you. In many departments there needs to be a serious cultural and management shift from "policing" to community policing: aka don't let it get to the point you need a violent takedown of someone ESPECIALLY for a minor charge. That involves training, management, and a complete cultural shift.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting if you really look at the video, he's not complaining badly until the swarm of officers on him, especially the one pressing on his chest.

Yeah, its quite clear that he is in distress at that point.

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Trying to figure out why this one didn't go to charges.

Any argument to resisting arrest ends shortly after this guy is surrounded.

I don't see a racism angle. I see bad policing to the level of criminality.

Agreed.

I thought I heard on radio that they're going to release the GJ reports. I tried google-fuing, but I'm not seeing anything... have you?

yeah, choke holds are banned moves for a very good reason.

I think there was a distinct lack of profesionalism in this case, which is par for the course with NYC cops, who have a horrible rep for a good reason.

Id say criminal charges should be laid, as it cannot even be claimed that the cop "was doing his job" in this case, as he wasnt following the proceedures, and was in fact, using banned methods (choke hold) in direct violation of his training.

when the poor man is on the ground gasping that he cannot breathe, not one cop takes it seriously either, a serious breach of protocol too, at least up here it would be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but just because there are so many UK or aussie people complaining its US thing, its not.


"Police brutality has been hitting the headlines in the US, but now it seems the unfortunate trend has made its way to Australia. The woman in question, Claire Helen, who works as a model and actress and was on the receiving end of recurring blows from a police officer, said: “It was the most frightening and humiliating experience of my life.”

Law enforcement officers allege that Helen punched a policewoman in the mouth, as well as resisting arrest – an action that the model stringently denies. "They pushed me down. They hit me and kicked me. They pulled my dress over my head," she said, speaking to Channel Nine. Onlookers could be heard shouting, "Let her go," and, "She's not resisting arrest.”

"

Don't resist arrest. Once a cop say's "Your under Arrest" then options are made available for him/her to effect that arrest. There was an Black NCO LEO there and she did not say a word at all in the process of Garner getting taking down

I really don't think this a matter of "white cop kills black guy" more "cop kills guy".

 Jihadin wrote:
Don't resist arrest. Once a cop say's "Your under Arrest" then options are made available for him/her to effect that arrest. There was an Black NCO LEO there and she did not say a word at all in the process of Garner getting taking down

a civilian 100% should not resist arrest, this is true, holding the civvie accountable for resisting arrest would be fitting.

but cops should follow proper proceedures when arresting, that someone resists arrest does not justify banned proceedures for arresting them.

choke holds are 100% not proper proceedure, so while I would also support charging the dead guy with resisting arrest, the cop should also face punishment for breaking proceedure, and bear his share of responsability

There was an Black NCO LEO there and she did not say a word at all in the process of Garner getting taking down

So what? Just because its procedure doesn't make it legal. Plus it wasn't even procedure.

And how can you be arrested for "resisting arrest" with no other charge? I've seen that many times.

Well I think he said it well.

Black NCO
Then on her incident reportwhatever testimony she either lied to help cover the white LEO or what appear to be the choke hold was not a choke hold.

Guys. don't you think saying this isn't about race is a bit shortsighted. given the context of the US justice system? I mean we know it's biased against black and Hispanic people. All the statistics point to that. And we've got incident after incident after sorry incident like this.

I'm pro-police, but it does the good cops absolutely no good if the bad ones can walk away from stuff like this. It's bad for the entire society if people, or just a significant segment of people, think they can't trust the police.

 Da Boss wrote:
Guys. don't you think saying this isn't about race is a bit shortsighted. given the context of the US justice system? I mean we know it's biased against black and Hispanic people. All the statistics point to that. And we've got incident after incident after sorry incident like this.

There are lots of statistics that point to lots of things. We have no reason to think this was about race, whatsoever.

NY Supreme Court going to release a portion(s) of the Grand Jury evidence and testimony regarding Garner case

 Crablezworth wrote:
Well I think he said it well.

You know, It would be a little less disingenuous of him, or any of the mainstream media, if they'd pay attention to the DILLON TAYLOR CASE AT ALL.

It's a cop issue. It's a due process issue. Not a race issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, and Likely you don't because it wasn't covered AT ALL by Stewart, or MSNBC, or CNN:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58472404-78/taylor-cruz-hands-gill.html.csp

 cincydooley wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Guys. don't you think saying this isn't about race is a bit shortsighted. given the context of the US justice system? I mean we know it's biased against black and Hispanic people. All the statistics point to that. And we've got incident after incident after sorry incident like this.

There are lots of statistics that point to lots of things. We have no reason to think this was about race, whatsoever.

I hate Insurgents. I despise them. I will try my best to opting them out by firing back in anger. Once he puts that weapon down and surrender then he becomes an individual. Yet I do not hold this view towards Muslims. 23 years in a system and I am not biased


Except on Road Check Points and I best see everyone hands Up Around Their Shoulders

Edit

Anyone catch what I did there

Heh.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Well I think he said it well.

You know, It would be a little less disingenuous of him, or any of the mainstream media, if they'd pay attention to the DILLON TAYLOR CASE AT ALL.

It's a cop issue. It's a due process issue. Not a race issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, and Likely you don't because it wasn't covered AT ALL by Stewart, or MSNBC, or CNN:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58472404-78/taylor-cruz-hands-gill.html.csp

You do know that Stewart isn't a News Anchor, right?

 Dreadwinter wrote:

You do know that Stewart isn't a News Anchor, right?

Yes, but as numerous studies and polls have shown, more and more young people get their actual news from him and Colbert, and those like them.

As such, I think he actually has a very powerful platform to "control" or alter opinion. I think that he realizes this (he's not stupid) and chooses his material accordingly. Yes, he's making fun of some of the absurd things done by the various facets of government, but I think there is still some truth to be gained from it.

 cincydooley wrote:

There are lots of statistics that point to lots of things.

Indeed, though I'm not sure why that's relevant; at least assuming you're not trying to dismiss statistics as a whole.

 cincydooley wrote:

We have no reason to think this was about race, whatsoever.

Well, aside from the fact that the victim was black.

I mean, I highly doubt that the relevant officers went out thinking "Lets go feth with some black people!" but it would be foolish to conclude that the absence of such overt racism indicates that race was not a factor at all. Not that it matters, as the real issue is bad policing.

Relevant?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/us/cleveland-justice-department-police-excessive-force/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 d-usa wrote:
Relevant?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/us/cleveland-justice-department-police-excessive-force/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

No Jersey Barriers around the um....FOB

 Frazzled wrote:
Trying to figure out why this one didn't go to charges.

Any argument to resisting arrest ends shortly after this guy is surrounded.

I don't see a racism angle. I see bad policing to the level of criminality.

With Frazzled on this kettle of fish. It should be worth noting that the NYPD pays out millions every year in excessive or wrongful use of force cases to the tune of about $3000 per officer (and the NYPD has some 34,000 officers). This is bad policing and corruption that's been going on in NYC for a very long time now, and it needs to change.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

You do know that Stewart isn't a News Anchor, right?

Yes, but as numerous studies and polls have shown, more and more young people get their actual news from him and Colbert, and those like them.

What it says that a comedian is seen as more trustworthy than journalists is kinda jaw dropping in a way. His point is a pretty good one and if I can give jon stewart any priase it's that the man is the definition of brevity and his ability to boil things down to the core is the thing of legends.

Stewart with O'Rielly is freaking hilarious

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Trying to figure out why this one didn't go to charges.

Any argument to resisting arrest ends shortly after this guy is surrounded.

I don't see a racism angle. I see bad policing to the level of criminality.

With Frazzled on this kettle of fish. It should be worth noting that the NYPD pays out millions every year in excessive or wrongful use of force cases to the tune of about $3000 per officer (and the NYPD has some 34,000 officers). This is bad policing and corruption that's been going on in NYC for a very long time now, and it needs to change.

yeah, resisting arrest is only a legit claim when the methods of arrest are also legit.

in this case, the method of arrest was 100% not legitimate, and something the police have explicitly outlawed as a valid method of arrest.

protecting police for doing their job, stops when they are not doing the job as trained.

NYC it particular has a horrible problem with how their PD is run too, and how the city is governed in general.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

You do know that Stewart isn't a News Anchor, right?

Yes, but as numerous studies and polls have shown, more and more young people get their actual news from him and Colbert, and those like them.

As such, I think he actually has a very powerful platform to "control" or alter opinion. I think that he realizes this (he's not stupid) and chooses his material accordingly. Yes, he's making fun of some of the absurd things done by the various facets of government, but I think there is still some truth to be gained from it.

The reason for this is because mainstream media outlets are simply not reporting factual issues. They're reporting opinions as fact, and this is as true of MSNBC as it is Fox News. The mainstream media is entirely controlled by corporate interests, and those interests do not include telling you just the facts about anything, but only the story they want you to hear.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Guys. don't you think saying this isn't about race is a bit shortsighted. given the context of the US justice system? I mean we know it's biased against black and Hispanic people. All the statistics point to that. And we've got incident after incident after sorry incident like this.

There are lots of statistics that point to lots of things. We have no reason to think this was about race, whatsoever.

Yeah, except lots of things are still about race.

Ignoring it doesn't make it go away and not understanding doesn't make it any less true.