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He would probably die, but not with a good fight.

Telmenari wrote:
Idk, my favorite example of SM absurdity is still the one they chucked into the arena vs Lelith (who is by and large considered borderline godlike at melee combat) and he survives four hours against her (and actually is the only person or thing to land a wound on her in the matches). He was stripped naked and handed two wych blades before the fight started. :l

That is the most mary-sue plot armor crap I've ever read. Lelith is arguably one of the greatest fighters in the 40k universe. I don't recall having read that particular piece in my 5th ed Codex, but good lord. That's not even my very blatant DE favoritism showing, that's just objectively ridiculous. Even Succubi would kill a normal marine in hand-to-hand, and somehow a marine without power armor is the only one to land a blow on her? Please. This is as bad as all the stories in other codices of single marines killing Avatars with their bare hands. It's not impressive if it's not believable.
/rant

That being said, GW has said before that everything in the Black Library on in the Codices is canon, although possibly highly untrue, because the sources. It's entirely plausible that an escaped marine, or one of the captured marine's battle-brothers whipped up a story about how valiantly and expertly he fought before he was killed, which seems like something they would do in order to keep others confident in the fight against the Dark Eldar. You don't want your soldier's to think they're fighting a battle that's impossible to win. If GW wrote that with that sort of thing in mind... well then props to them.

@Sweaterkittens

Well for that story to make even a little bit of sense, we would need to say the following. Maybe Lelith was poisonned so that she would lose the match and sick (can DE be sick).

Most enemies, animals etc coukdf be consumed to sustain them.

And even minus armour you have 7 ish feet of insane muscle and steel hard bone. Rapudhealing, fast reactions, enhanced vision etc. To kill one outright need a good weapon and numbers.
Though you might mission kill them but even minus a leg or arm there still dangerous foes.

That being said, GW has said before that everything in the Black Library on in the Codices is canon, although possibly highly untrue, because the sources. It's entirely plausible that an escaped marine, or one of the captured marine's battle-brothers whipped up a story about how valiantly and expertly he fought before he was killed, which seems like something they would do in order to keep others confident in the fight against the Dark Eldar. You don't want your soldier's to think they're fighting a battle that's impossible to win. If GW wrote that with that sort of thing in mind... well then props to them.

This is the way that I've always imagined the Black Library stories. That, and mortals writing the books, hence the not understanding the fluff that goes on in a lot of the books - things like Bolts not being explosive and the like.

 jhe90 wrote:
Most enemies, animals etc coukdf be consumed to sustain them.

And even minus armour you have 7 ish feet of insane muscle and steel hard bone. Rapudhealing, fast reactions, enhanced vision etc. To kill one outright need a good weapon and numbers.
Though you might mission kill them but even minus a leg or arm there still dangerous foes.

Yep. I like to think of them like Ogryn, but much smarter and about as tough to kill. Humans 2.0

Well I don't think a «Naked» Space Marine represent such a threat to the other races and warriors of 40K. Sure they still are very resistent and strong. Much more than any humen being can hope to be no matter the training. Your average Space Marine can also be just has fast has the best martial artist that mankind can produce. But, they don't stand appart from orks, for exemple, on many things. Your typical Marine would be a little bit stronger than the classical ork boyz without his armor, about has resistent to damage (maybe even a bit less). He his much faster, but orks have claws and fangs which makes them dangerous in wrestling type of combat (they would need to get a old on the Marine first of course). I would give a 80% win rate to the Marine. An ork nob would be probably more dangerous than a Space Marine overall and a warboss would trash an entire squad of unarmed and unarmoured marines without any problem. I would give a nob a 80% win rate in a duel and the warboss would alsmost win all the time. After all, orks wear virtualy no armour all the time and still poses a great threat to Space Marines in close combat and in those situation they do have power armor and weapons of higher quality than the orks ones.

A standard dark eldar witch is so fast even incredibly fast heroic Space Marines look slow in comparison. A normal Space Marine would be like a dim witted brute to one of them. Witches are vastly more experimented to fight without armor compare to Space Marine who get to rely on them. A witch can present a dangerous foe and even win a duel against an armored Space Marines and the armor does make their job a lot harder because their knife can't pierce it. I would say that in these condition the Marine would have a win rate of about 30% against a hekatrix twice less and a succubus would just think the space marine his cute: «He still think he can win! How dumb can they get?!».

An Ogryn would be even more dangerous than a Space Marine because they happen to be much stronger and much more resistent. Of course, I would still bet on the Marine because of his superior skills, speed, agility and intelligence, but one little mistake and he's a dead guy. I would give him a 60% win rate in these conditions.

Kroots would also be a good match for them. They are also very strong (maybe a little bit less than a Space Marine out of his armor but no so much). They are very fast, always fight without armor and very skilled in close combat. Their quills, thick skin and sharp beaks also gives them a edge in close combat versus a naked marine. This would be in my opinion one of the closest match in that kind of duel. I would give the Marine an advantage because of his resistence. I would give him a 60% win rate.

I won't discuss the chance of space marine without armor to kill things like geenstealers, tyranid warriors or even a thing like a hormagaunt. It doesn't seems like a very fair comparison.

Only Tau and humen are clearly weaker than Space Marine in all physical characteristics. All the other can competition against them in at least one field and can even surpass them in some field. They do are dangerous but, much, much less.

The only unaugmented humen who could possibly win a duel against a marine in the pits of Commoragh. Would be a Sister of Battle. She's probably the only humen trained enough in a soft martial art to represent a danger to a Marine and with enough experience (thanks to rejuvenat) to match a Space Marine. I would give the marine a 85% chance of win for the Space Marine. The only chance of the Sister would be to either stick her finger through the eye of Space Marine (relatively easy) to his brain or braking a throat (much harder because of the strength of Space Marines bones but still possible).

epronovost wrote:
Well I don't think a «Naked» Space Marine represent such a threat to the other races and warriors of 40K. Sure they still are very resistent and strong. Much more than any humen being can hope to be no matter the training. Your average Space Marine can also be just has fast has the best martial artist that mankind can produce. But, they don't stand appart from orks, for exemple, on many things. Your typical Marine would be a little bit stronger than the classical ork boyz without his armor, about has resistent to damage (maybe even a bit less). He his much faster, but orks have claws and fangs which makes them dangerous in wrestling type of combat (they would need to get a old on the Marine first of course). I would give a 80% win rate to the Marine. An ork nob would be probably more dangerous than a Space Marine overall and a warboss would trash an entire squad of unarmed and unarmoured marines without any problem. I would give a nob a 80% win rate in a duel and the warboss would alsmost win all the time. After all, orks wear virtualy no armour all the time and still poses a great threat to Space Marines in close combat and in those situation they do have power armor and weapons of higher quality than the orks ones.

A standard dark eldar witch is so fast even incredibly fast heroic Space Marines look slow in comparison. A normal Space Marine would be like a dim witted brute to one of them. Witches are vastly more experimented to fight without armor compare to Space Marine who get to rely on them. A witch can present a dangerous foe and even win a duel against an armored Space Marines and the armor does make their job a lot harder because their knife can't pierce it. I would say that in these condition the Marine would have a win rate of about 30% against a hekatrix twice less and a succubus would just think the space marine his cute: «He still think he can win! How dumb can they get?!».

An Ogryn would be even more dangerous than a Space Marine because they happen to be much stronger and much more resistent. Of course, I would still bet on the Marine because of his superior skills, speed, agility and intelligence, but one little mistake and he's a dead guy. I would give him a 60% win rate in these conditions.

Kroots would also be a good match for them. They are also very strong (maybe a little bit less than a Space Marine out of his armor but no so much). They are very fast, always fight without armor and very skilled in close combat. Their quills, thick skin and sharp beaks also gives them a edge in close combat versus a naked marine. This would be in my opinion one of the closest match in that kind of duel. I would give the Marine an advantage because of his resistence. I would give him a 60% win rate.

I won't discuss the chance of space marine without armor to kill things like geenstealers, tyranid warriors or even a thing like a hormagaunt. It doesn't seems like a very fair comparison.

Only Tau and humen are clearly weaker than Space Marine in all physical characteristics. All the other can competition against them in at least one field and can even surpass them in some field. They do are dangerous but, much, much less.

The only unaugmented humen who could possibly win a duel against a marine in the pits of Commoragh. Would be a Sister of Battle. She's probably the only humen trained enough in a soft martial art to represent a danger to a Marine and with enough experience (thanks to rejuvenat) to match a Space Marine. I would give the marine a 85% chance of win for the Space Marine. The only chance of the Sister would be to either stick her finger through the eye of Space Marine (relatively easy) to his brain or braking a throat (much harder because of the strength of Space Marines bones but still possible).

Orks are only capable of winning through sheer numbers. Out of armor an Astartes would be simply too fast for any Ork boy or Nob to peg, much like Eldar or Dark Eldar. They're too fast for them to reliably hit, and unlike Eldar astartes can just rip off their head. And no, Astartes can't be killed by "sticking your finger through their eye into their brain", because you can't actually hit the brain by doing that, the eye socket is almost completely sealed and a finger couldn't fit through it. Plus Astartes have been hit by flame atacks before that melted all the flesh off their skull and survive perfectly fine. The only reliable way of killing one is a headshot that destroys most of the brain tissue or breaking the spine or brain stem.

 Wyzilla wrote:

epronovost wrote:
Well I don't think a «Naked» Space Marine represent such a threat to the other races and warriors of 40K. Sure they still are very resistent and strong. Much more than any humen being can hope to be no matter the training. Your average Space Marine can also be just has fast has the best martial artist that mankind can produce. But, they don't stand appart from orks, for exemple, on many things. Your typical Marine would be a little bit stronger than the classical ork boyz without his armor, about has resistent to damage (maybe even a bit less). He his much faster, but orks have claws and fangs which makes them dangerous in wrestling type of combat (they would need to get a old on the Marine first of course). I would give a 80% win rate to the Marine. An ork nob would be probably more dangerous than a Space Marine overall and a warboss would trash an entire squad of unarmed and unarmoured marines without any problem. I would give a nob a 80% win rate in a duel and the warboss would alsmost win all the time. After all, orks wear virtualy no armour all the time and still poses a great threat to Space Marines in close combat and in those situation they do have power armor and weapons of higher quality than the orks ones.

A standard dark eldar witch is so fast even incredibly fast heroic Space Marines look slow in comparison. A normal Space Marine would be like a dim witted brute to one of them. Witches are vastly more experimented to fight without armor compare to Space Marine who get to rely on them. A witch can present a dangerous foe and even win a duel against an armored Space Marines and the armor does make their job a lot harder because their knife can't pierce it. I would say that in these condition the Marine would have a win rate of about 30% against a hekatrix twice less and a succubus would just think the space marine his cute: «He still think he can win! How dumb can they get?!».

An Ogryn would be even more dangerous than a Space Marine because they happen to be much stronger and much more resistent. Of course, I would still bet on the Marine because of his superior skills, speed, agility and intelligence, but one little mistake and he's a dead guy. I would give him a 60% win rate in these conditions.

Kroots would also be a good match for them. They are also very strong (maybe a little bit less than a Space Marine out of his armor but no so much). They are very fast, always fight without armor and very skilled in close combat. Their quills, thick skin and sharp beaks also gives them a edge in close combat versus a naked marine. This would be in my opinion one of the closest match in that kind of duel. I would give the Marine an advantage because of his resistence. I would give him a 60% win rate.

I won't discuss the chance of space marine without armor to kill things like geenstealers, tyranid warriors or even a thing like a hormagaunt. It doesn't seems like a very fair comparison.

Only Tau and humen are clearly weaker than Space Marine in all physical characteristics. All the other can competition against them in at least one field and can even surpass them in some field. They do are dangerous but, much, much less.

The only unaugmented humen who could possibly win a duel against a marine in the pits of Commoragh. Would be a Sister of Battle. She's probably the only humen trained enough in a soft martial art to represent a danger to a Marine and with enough experience (thanks to rejuvenat) to match a Space Marine. I would give the marine a 85% chance of win for the Space Marine. The only chance of the Sister would be to either stick her finger through the eye of Space Marine (relatively easy) to his brain or braking a throat (much harder because of the strength of Space Marines bones but still possible).

Orks are only capable of winning through sheer numbers. Out of armor an Astartes would be simply too fast for any Ork boy or Nob to peg, much like Eldar or Dark Eldar. They're too fast for them to reliably hit, and unlike Eldar astartes can just rip off their head. And no, Astartes can't be killed by "sticking your finger through their eye into their brain", because you can't actually hit the brain by doing that, the eye socket is almost completely sealed and a finger couldn't fit through it. Plus Astartes have been hit by flame atacks before that melted all the flesh off their skull and survive perfectly fine. The only reliable way of killing one is a headshot that destroys most of the brain tissue or breaking the spine or brain stem.

Yep. Most of the kills of Astartes I've seen have been headshots/through the eye lens, blowing them to smithereens, or cutting in half/cutting their head off.

Well, they can be stopped pretty well by turning their chests into holes via plasma weaponry.

@Wyzilla

Well I ould disagree with you on few points. First, Your eye socket is isolated from you brain by a thin layer of muscular and nervous tissue and cartilage than can easily be broken and pierced by someone hitting you in the eye with it's finger. It takes fifteen pound of preshure to pierce the eye and about 30 more to pierce the cartillage beind it. All in all 40 to 50 pounds of pressure by a small surface like a fingers tip on your eye socket will severly damage your eye and a portion of your brain. If you are in the mind for an experiment, cut a grapefruit (or a citrus) in half and hit the fleshy part with your finger. The depth you will reach with your finger will tell you at what depth you could have planted your finger in the head of someone. Make shure your nails are trimed and you don't have any little cuts or it will burn like hell. You should be able to reach pretty deep in just a few tries. It's a neet little test to do and it shoes the fragility of certain parts of the humen body rather well and it's a weak spot that Space Marine certainly have since their eyes are no more resistent neither is their cartilage.

Has for Space Marine vs orks, they do are faster than boyz but not much more than nobz and warboss are just has fast has them. They also are just has powerful and a Space Marine would be completly incapable of ripping an ork head of since the ork head is almost has big has his chest, dense and thus must be supported by immensly powerful muscle. Plus, in a grappling move, you allow the ork to negate it's speed disadvantage and use his claws and fangs to rip you appart (not a smart move). Orks are nearly has srong has Space Marines and sometime much much more (and that's with the strength enhancing characteristics of their power armor). Furthermore, without their armor, Space marine aren't faster. Their black carapace allows them to use their armor without any lost of speed or agility so they don't gain any when they loose it. Like I said before, I would think a Space Marine would win most duel against an ork without his armor. But nobs are frenquently discribed killing fully armored space marine rather easily so fighting one without his armor is a lot easier considering the qualities of power armor.

@jrelly89

I would agree on that to, but that's Space Marine wearing power armors who are virtually immune to small arms fire and boost their strength and resistence. You can't really punch a marine in the guts to hurt him in power armor unless you got a powerfist. Without a power armor you just need the strength of an ork, kroot, ogryn or any other creature like that. You can even just stab them to death with a knife.

epronovost wrote:
@Wyzilla

Well I ould disagree with you on few points. First, Your eye socket is isolated from you brain by a thin layer of muscular and nervous tissue and cartilage than can easily be broken and pierced by someone hitting you in the eye with it's finger. It takes fifteen pound of preshure to pierce the eye and about 30 more to pierce the cartillage beind it. All in all 40 to 50 pounds of pressure by a small surface like a fingers tip on your eye socket will severly damage your eye and a portion of your brain. If you are in the mind for an experiment, cut a grapefruit (or a citrus) in half and hit the fleshy part with your finger. The depth you will reach with your finger will tell you at what depth you could have planted your finger in the head of someone. Make shure your nails are trimed and you don't have any little cuts or it will burn like hell. You should be able to reach pretty deep in just a few tries. It's a neet little test to do and it shoes the fragility of certain parts of the humen body rather well and it's a weak spot that Space Marine certainly have since their eyes are no more resistent neither is their cartilage.

Has for Space Marine vs orks, they do are faster than boyz but not much more than nobz and warboss are just has fast has them. They also are just has powerful and a Space Marine would be completly incapable of ripping an ork head of since the ork head is almost has big has his chest, dense and thus must be supported by immensly powerful muscle. Plus, in a grappling move, you allow the ork to negate it's speed disadvantage and use his claws and fangs to rip you appart (not a smart move). Orks are nearly has srong has Space Marines and sometime much much more (and that's with the strength enhancing characteristics of their power armor). Furthermore, without their armor, Space marine aren't faster. Their black carapace allows them to use their armor without any lost of speed or agility so they don't gain any when they loose it. Like I said before, I would think a Space Marine would win most duel against an ork without his armor. But nobs are frenquently discribed killing fully armored space marine rather easily so fighting one without his armor is a lot easier considering the qualities of power armor.

@jrelly89

I would agree on that to, but that's Space Marine wearing power armors who are virtually immune to small arms fire and boost their strength and resistence. You can't really punch a marine in the guts to hurt him in power armor unless you got a powerfist. Without a power armor you just need the strength of an ork, kroot, ogryn or any other creature like that. You can even just stab them to death with a knife.

I disagree. It would take a lot to stab them to death, assuming they didn't break your arm or hand. Most humans can survive being stabbed, I'm sure super humans could too. Also, since they're super humans, I bet "poking their eyes out" would also take a lot more than the average human. And the strength of an ork or orgyn is actually quite a lot.

As for the orks versus humans things, the Astartes are faster, but I would say that Orkz are stronger, even if only by a bit. Orkz main threat is their numbers and the fact that they are naturally strong, tough creatures.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Most enemies, animals etc coukdf be consumed to sustain them.

And even minus armour you have 7 ish feet of insane muscle and steel hard bone. Rapudhealing, fast reactions, enhanced vision etc. To kill one outright need a good weapon and numbers.
Though you might mission kill them but even minus a leg or arm there still dangerous foes.

Yep. I like to think of them like Ogryn, but much smarter and about as tough to kill. Humans 2.0

Smart helps with right environment they could fight a long guerilla war against a larger enemy force and last out, scavenged weapons, improvised armour, even minus armour brutal environment is not going to slow them much.
There high discipline would also lend a edge.

You don,t want them running off into the wilderness, ruined hive city or nice tight close qauters environment with time, food or access to prey and 1000 places to hide, ambush and disapeer into.

 jreilly89 wrote:
As for the orks versus humans things, the Astartes are faster, but I would say that Orkz are stronger, even if only by a bit. Orkz main threat is their numbers and the fact that they are naturally strong, tough creatures.

As far as I know, Orks are far stronger than humans, although a bit weaker than Marines (at least when the latter is in PA)

Once the Nobs start getting bigger than Marines they also get stronger, despite PA.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
As for the orks versus humans things, the Astartes are faster, but I would say that Orkz are stronger, even if only by a bit. Orkz main threat is their numbers and the fact that they are naturally strong, tough creatures.

As far as I know, Orks are far stronger than humans, although a bit weaker than Marines (at least when the latter is in PA)

Once the Nobs start getting bigger than Marines they also get stronger, despite PA.

I'm assuming it's Humans < Astartes (no PA) < Orks < Astartes in PA < Nobz/WarBoss


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jhe90 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Most enemies, animals etc coukdf be consumed to sustain them.

And even minus armour you have 7 ish feet of insane muscle and steel hard bone. Rapudhealing, fast reactions, enhanced vision etc. To kill one outright need a good weapon and numbers.
Though you might mission kill them but even minus a leg or arm there still dangerous foes.

Yep. I like to think of them like Ogryn, but much smarter and about as tough to kill. Humans 2.0

Smart helps with right environment they could fight a long guerilla war against a larger enemy force and last out, scavenged weapons, improvised armour, even minus armour brutal environment is not going to slow them much.
There high discipline would also lend a edge.

You don,t want them running off into the wilderness, ruined hive city or nice tight close qauters environment with time, food or access to prey and 1000 places to hide, ambush and disapeer into.

Yep. I find them like really smart Catachans.

 jreilly89 wrote:

epronovost wrote:
@Wyzilla

Well I ould disagree with you on few points. First, Your eye socket is isolated from you brain by a thin layer of muscular and nervous tissue and cartilage than can easily be broken and pierced by someone hitting you in the eye with it's finger. It takes fifteen pound of preshure to pierce the eye and about 30 more to pierce the cartillage beind it. All in all 40 to 50 pounds of pressure by a small surface like a fingers tip on your eye socket will severly damage your eye and a portion of your brain. If you are in the mind for an experiment, cut a grapefruit (or a citrus) in half and hit the fleshy part with your finger. The depth you will reach with your finger will tell you at what depth you could have planted your finger in the head of someone. Make shure your nails are trimed and you don't have any little cuts or it will burn like hell. You should be able to reach pretty deep in just a few tries. It's a neet little test to do and it shoes the fragility of certain parts of the humen body rather well and it's a weak spot that Space Marine certainly have since their eyes are no more resistent neither is their cartilage.

Has for Space Marine vs orks, they do are faster than boyz but not much more than nobz and warboss are just has fast has them. They also are just has powerful and a Space Marine would be completly incapable of ripping an ork head of since the ork head is almost has big has his chest, dense and thus must be supported by immensly powerful muscle. Plus, in a grappling move, you allow the ork to negate it's speed disadvantage and use his claws and fangs to rip you appart (not a smart move). Orks are nearly has srong has Space Marines and sometime much much more (and that's with the strength enhancing characteristics of their power armor). Furthermore, without their armor, Space marine aren't faster. Their black carapace allows them to use their armor without any lost of speed or agility so they don't gain any when they loose it. Like I said before, I would think a Space Marine would win most duel against an ork without his armor. But nobs are frenquently discribed killing fully armored space marine rather easily so fighting one without his armor is a lot easier considering the qualities of power armor.

@jrelly89

I would agree on that to, but that's Space Marine wearing power armors who are virtually immune to small arms fire and boost their strength and resistence. You can't really punch a marine in the guts to hurt him in power armor unless you got a powerfist. Without a power armor you just need the strength of an ork, kroot, ogryn or any other creature like that. You can even just stab them to death with a knife.

I disagree. It would take a lot to stab them to death, assuming they didn't break your arm or hand. Most humans can survive being stabbed, I'm sure super humans could too. Also, since they're super humans, I bet "poking their eyes out" would also take a lot more than the average human. And the strength of an ork or orgyn is actually quite a lot.

As for the orks versus humans things, the Astartes are faster, but I would say that Orkz are stronger, even if only by a bit. Orkz main threat is their numbers and the fact that they are naturally strong, tough creatures.

Stab wounds are actually the most inefficient means to kill somebody. Real people have survived getting shanked over eighty times and didn't even bleed out. Unless the neck, backs of the legs, inner arm, arm-pit, or liver is hit, you're not going to die from being stabbed unless they start to literally carve flesh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

epronovost wrote:
@Wyzilla

Well I ould disagree with you on few points. First, Your eye socket is isolated from you brain by a thin layer of muscular and nervous tissue and cartilage than can easily be broken and pierced by someone hitting you in the eye with it's finger. It takes fifteen pound of preshure to pierce the eye and about 30 more to pierce the cartillage beind it. All in all 40 to 50 pounds of pressure by a small surface like a fingers tip on your eye socket will severly damage your eye and a portion of your brain. If you are in the mind for an experiment, cut a grapefruit (or a citrus) in half and hit the fleshy part with your finger. The depth you will reach with your finger will tell you at what depth you could have planted your finger in the head of someone. Make shure your nails are trimed and you don't have any little cuts or it will burn like hell. You should be able to reach pretty deep in just a few tries. It's a neet little test to do and it shoes the fragility of certain parts of the humen body rather well and it's a weak spot that Space Marine certainly have since their eyes are no more resistent neither is their cartilage.

Has for Space Marine vs orks, they do are faster than boyz but not much more than nobz and warboss are just has fast has them. They also are just has powerful and a Space Marine would be completly incapable of ripping an ork head of since the ork head is almost has big has his chest, dense and thus must be supported by immensly powerful muscle. Plus, in a grappling move, you allow the ork to negate it's speed disadvantage and use his claws and fangs to rip you appart (not a smart move). Orks are nearly has srong has Space Marines and sometime much much more (and that's with the strength enhancing characteristics of their power armor). Furthermore, without their armor, Space marine aren't faster. Their black carapace allows them to use their armor without any lost of speed or agility so they don't gain any when they loose it. Like I said before, I would think a Space Marine would win most duel against an ork without his armor. But nobs are frenquently discribed killing fully armored space marine rather easily so fighting one without his armor is a lot easier considering the qualities of power armor.

@jrelly89

I would agree on that to, but that's Space Marine wearing power armors who are virtually immune to small arms fire and boost their strength and resistence. You can't really punch a marine in the guts to hurt him in power armor unless you got a powerfist. Without a power armor you just need the strength of an ork, kroot, ogryn or any other creature like that. You can even just stab them to death with a knife.

Unless Orks suddenly got a massive speed boost last I checked, Orks aren't capable of dodging bullets or moving faster then humans can physically comprehend like Astartes or Eldar. Even Ork Nobs need massive numbers to take on just about anybody, as like Tyranids their main advantages are raw strength and endless numbers. Orks, like Tyranids, win because they drown your millions in billions.

@wyzilla

The number of stories describing ork nobz and warbosses smashing Space Marines asside like puppets even in their full gear seems to demonstrate that they don't need numbers to kill you. Shure they will use it, but it's not always necessary. Ghazkull was much slower than Belial, but it's Belial and it's entire command squad who got smashed asside like toys by the Warboss and they had terminator plates which are far better than ork mega-armor. This seems to demonstrate that the Space Marine superiority is paper thin when it comes to combat and can be explain by their tactical acumen and superior tech.

This is a also nice little fact you may like about humen beings. They can actualy move faster they they can see. A normal humen can move like a blur to another humen eyes. In fact a professionnal martial artist can punch you up to three times faster than it takes you to blink litteraly. You don't even use your eyes to block and dodge at that point it's almost useless. You must rely on experience, raw technique and little signs to warn you of any mouvement before they actualy make it. So an average Space Marine doesn't move much faster then the fastest humen in combat and can be countered when it comes to it's speed even by an ork.

epronovost wrote:
@wyzilla

The number of stories describing ork nobz and warbosses smashing Space Marines asside like puppets even in their full gear seems to demonstrate that they don't need numbers to kill you. Shure they will use it, but it's not always necessary. Ghazkull was much slower than Belial, but it's Belial and it's entire command squad who got smashed asside like toys by the Warboss and they had terminator plates which are far better than ork mega-armor. This seems to demonstrate that the Space Marine superiority is paper thin.

This is a also nice little fact you may like about humen beings. They can actualy move faster they they can see. A normal humen can move like a blur to another humen eyes. In fact a professionnal martial artist can punch you up to three times faster than it takes you to blink litteraly.

And then Warbosses get their heads lobbed off and taken as trophies by Comissars.

And what I'm referencing is how Astartes are capable of moving faster then it is physically possible for the human eye to comprehend. As in, faster then the eye can take in light, send the message to the brain, and the brain finally reconstructs the image and generates an image of it in the mind fast.

@Wyzilla


And then Warbosses get their heads lobbed off and taken as trophies by Comissars.

I know some Space Marine who also end up dead against the same comissars. Even great ones in armor and full gear.


Blinking is a reflex action. We are talking about the same thing. They can hit up to three times faster than your brain can prossess information. I have added some details in that post you might want to read it again for more information.

The thing is that the power of each individual Space Marine seems to vary alot and surely so depending on the author. Some are almost god-like and can almost fight gods, others slightly better than the ordinary human and dies forgotten like the Space Marines of Starcraft from a strike from an Ork-bolter striking their chest.

epronovost wrote:
@Wyzilla


And then Warbosses get their heads lobbed off and taken as trophies by Comissars.

I know some Space Marine who also end up dead against the same comissars. Even great ones in armor and full gear.

Ciaphas Cain and Ibram Gaunt wear invisible Leman Russ plot armour plates. They should not be taken as examples of anything, more than the Mach 180 Marines.

epronovost wrote:
@Wyzilla


And then Warbosses get their heads lobbed off and taken as trophies by Comissars.

I know some Space Marine who also end up dead against the same comissars. Even great ones in armor and full gear.


Blinking is a reflex action. We are talking about the same thing. They can hit up to three times faster than your brain can prossess information. I have added some details in that post you might want to read it again for more information.

Yes. That's punching. I'm talking about moving over ten feet in around fifteen milliseconds so to the observer it looks like the dude is teleporting.

@Beaviz81

There is a million of them. Some are probably unlucky and not very good (compared to other Space Marine). This isn't exclusive to marines. Orks, eldars, even SoB and guardsmen seems to vary tremendously in powers, skills and abilitie. That's the problem with fiction and there is no way to get out of this problem.

@Wyzilla

I haven't read anything so precise about Space Marine speed and it would seems to me like a literary liscence like when I say the following thing:

«Seeing the armed gunman entering her house with murderous intent, Jacky dashes behind the heavy door in her bedroom and closed it shut faster than the eye can see before picking up the phone leaving the dumfounded murderer in the lobby.»

Did Jacky runned throught ten meters in a millisecond and looked like a teleporting heroin to the murderer? Of course not. I just meant she moved really, really fast which surprised the murderer. It's a frequent trick in the Black Library authors arsenal.

epronovost wrote:
@Beaviz81

There is a million of them. Some are probably unlucky and not very good (compared to other Space Marine). This isn't exclusive to marines. Orks, eldars, even SoB and guardsmen seems to vary tremendously in powers, skills and abilitie. That's the problem with fiction and there is no way to get out of this problem.

This is why at the very least FFG tends to be a good point to go off. It's still arbitrary game mechanics, but at least they're consistent. Compared to Tal moving 666 feet per second.

epronovost wrote:
@Beaviz81

There is a million of them. Some are probably unlucky and not very good (compared to other Space Marine). This isn't exclusive to marines. Orks, eldars, even SoB and guardsmen seems to vary tremendously in powers, skills and abilitie. That's the problem with fiction and there is no way to get out of this problem.

Hahahahah. Crappy Space Marines. Not only does your comment provide a certain logic, but its damn funny as well.

I can see individual vary greatly of any race. Plus many are just glorified bags of meat, blood and bone in a war-zone just waiting to be shot to advance the plot and give the protagonists someone to miss both IRL and in fluff.

I personally think that the Space Marines dying early and often for rather stupid reasons often were young Asartes, but your argument makes sense as well as not every Space Marine can be created equal.

 Wyzilla wrote:

epronovost wrote:
@Wyzilla


And then Warbosses get their heads lobbed off and taken as trophies by Comissars.

I know some Space Marine who also end up dead against the same comissars. Even great ones in armor and full gear.


Blinking is a reflex action. We are talking about the same thing. They can hit up to three times faster than your brain can prossess information. I have added some details in that post you might want to read it again for more information.

Yes. That's punching. I'm talking about moving over ten feet in around fifteen milliseconds so to the observer it looks like the dude is teleporting.

That's 45m/h. I can track a bike moving at 60, so I'm pretty sure I can see a giant man moving at 45.

Can you track Talos Valcoran running at 180 times the speed of sound?

Try being in a fight and keep track at stuff. Thats really hard. Adrenaline pumping and everything.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Try being in a fight and keep track at stuff. Thats really hard. Adrenaline pumping and everything.

Not being able to keep track of is not appearing to teleport. Regular humans can easily be lost track of. And it will probably be easier to keep track of a marine, considering their size.

Faster than regular humans, I'm sure. A top running speed of 45m/h would a very impressive feat (the fastest human was only 28 m/h, and that's a 100ft sprinter).
Now close combat is a different matter entirely. I took aikido for a while (the only reason I stopped is that I'm in college), and I can go from in front of someone to behind them in a second, maybe less. But much of that speed has to do with moving correctly, not how fast they can move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Can you track Talos Valcoran running at 180 times the speed of sound?

You mean 222,480 km/h? Not even space marines could track that. The only possible way is if it were a vehicle of some sort a distance away.

And I think that can be put in the ridiculous pile. He'd probably burn up.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

epronovost wrote:
@Wyzilla


And then Warbosses get their heads lobbed off and taken as trophies by Comissars.

I know some Space Marine who also end up dead against the same comissars. Even great ones in armor and full gear.


Blinking is a reflex action. We are talking about the same thing. They can hit up to three times faster than your brain can prossess information. I have added some details in that post you might want to read it again for more information.

Yes. That's punching. I'm talking about moving over ten feet in around fifteen milliseconds so to the observer it looks like the dude is teleporting.

That's 45m/h. I can track a bike moving at 60, so I'm pretty sure I can see a giant man moving at 45.

Uh. No, you forgot to carry a decimal. It's 454 miles per hour, and he accelerated instantly.

So yeah. That's outlandishly fast. While it's certainly not a precise number, just a ballpark, it's absurd.