Athiest kills 3 Muslims after condemning all religions *tipping intensifies*

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**Frazzled**

I'm not seeing how this thread is shifting sideways. Oh well.

**SlaveToDorkness**

sirlynchmob wrote:
How does this make world news?

Oh I get it, finally a atheist does something immoral that everyone can criticize and go "see, they're as bad as the rest of us after all"

If it had been a christian who claimed he was just standing his ground, defending his parking lot from muslims, Craig would already be home and nothing would have been said about it.

Easy, Dude it's only February. You've got ten more months to come up with The Most Idiotic Post of 2015. Pace yourself.

**welshhoppo**

Now we have non-religious extremists.

The world is definitely a dangerous place.

**Eilif**

reds8n wrote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/11/reports-3-young-muslims-slain-in-chapel-hill-shooting-n-c-man-charged/

“Our preliminary investigation indicates that the crime was motivated by an ongoing neighbor dispute over parking,” the department said in a statement. “Hicks is cooperating with investigators and more information may be released at a later time.”

.. parking.

This is what I heard on the radio this morning as well. I don't find it at all surprising. Most murders are not the direct result of gang culture, hate crimes or pre-planned killings, though these can be the cause, are often contributing factors and may yet prove to be a part of this case.

However, most come from inter-personal conflicts that spiral out of control. Petty arguments, public disagreements, perceived slights, etc. People kill each other for the stupidest stuff.

**nels1031**

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
How does this make world news?

Oh I get it, finally a atheist does something immoral that everyone can criticize and go "see, they're as bad as the rest of us after all"

If it had been a christian who claimed he was just standing his ground, defending his parking lot from muslims, Craig would already be home and nothing would have been said about it.

Easy, Dude it's only February. You've got ten more months to come up with The Most Idiotic Post of 2015. Pace yourself.

He may be trying to take a run at all ten of the Top Ten Most Idiotic Posts list though.

**Cheesecat**

Edited: too mean, not worth the trouble.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Frazzled wrote:
No, you. Thats the second post we're you're giggng Christians.

I was just pointing to the absurdity of pretending Christians have it worse than others in regard to discrimination. Especially in Europe/America.

Swastakowey wrote:
Like for example the bible has a lot of lee way in how one decides to live their life. […]
So taking your example, im gonna assume you have not studied the koran in whole and have instead read it, took out some bits out or read what someone else wrote about the koran etc.

Sure. Assume that the Bible and the Quran are the same. No need to actually study what the Quran is about, you have already studied the Bible.

.
Actually, they are different.

**NuggzTheNinja**

Swastakowey wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Ask the ones in Syria, Iraq, and Egypt about it.

I will ask the atheists in Syria, Iraq and Egypt to ask them.
Surely they cannot be discriminated against, unlike Christians!

No? Muslims discriminate against atheists all the time. When it comes to living among Muslims, you really aren't safe from discrimination no matter your faith. Not even other Muslims are safe from the violence visited upon them by "the other" Muslims. For being the wrong kind of Muslim, of course.

I live next door to a muslim and around the corner to 2 families of jehovahs witnesses, and up the road are some baptists. They are all nice to each other and go about their business, say high on the street (religious people are nice like that) even lend their lawnmowers when someone is in need. I feel very safe from muslim discrimination. Its actually worse having your atheist friends talk behind their backs about how stupid they are. Atheists make me cringe. Like reading your comment actually. The only people in the world I have ever heard any discrimination come from is atheists, at college, primary school and even at work sometimes.

No one is safe from atheist discrimination, even atheists hate each other (as witnessed at college etc). Sick group of people. Really toxic and horrid.

Those Muslims are not practicing their faith correctly, according to the "real Muslims." Have you paid your infidel tax lately? If not, then "real Muslims" would consider your neighbors to be "fake Muslims" who don't follow the book properly.

If you actually read what the Koran says, it's institutionalized discrimination against anyone who is not a Muslim. I've known some pretty cool Muslims, and also a few who were totally insane. The problem is that the religion itself is fundamentally geared toward discrimination.

Really? Is it? Because you know, religious texts are studied in whole. Ever read the bible for example? Down the middle you will see an index type of thing, all through out the bible there are letters, each letter takes you to a letter in the index which then takes you to a different scripture that has relevant info or gives more perspective on the original scripture in question.

Like for example the bible has a lot of lee way in how one decides to live their life. Take jehovahs witnesses. they are about as fundamental as you can get fr Christians. They understand they are separate from the world in their views. It says to stay neutral from politics for example. So a Jehovahs witness will never join a rebellion, vote for a member or join a political party. But at the same time it says to obey those with power UNLESS it directly contradicts their faith. So in Nazi germany when Hitler wanted Jehovahs witnesses to salute him, they would not. They had the choice to salute him or go to concentration camps. So off to the camps many went and they simply carried on their faith as best they could. Yet if Jehovahs witnesses pay taxes, how can they not be hypocritical when paying their taxes? Well there us another verse in the bible that states (famously I believe) about paying the taxes owed despite it going to many places such as military and political costs or whatever.

So taking your example, im gonna assume you have not studied the koran in whole and have instead read it, took out some bits out or read what someone else wrote about the koran etc. Anyone could read the bible and read the part that talks about keeping neutral in politics and declare it gods will that you will not pay taxes in support of the government. Then a whole load of 13 year old atheists will read it and declare how bad the bible is for encouraging skipping on taxes etc.

Its same with many Americans protesting Gays. The bible talks about being peaceful and letting the world go about its business. They shouldn't care what the Gay people get up to, for according to them the Gay people, like all others who dont follow the bible, will simply die and return to dust, for they are having their reward in full. While the faithful get their reward later in life. And so on.

So like Jehovahs witnesses, im pretty sure my muslim neighbor has taken his holy book, read it, and taken it all in and decided that he can follow his religion while being at peace around his neighbors. Which I think is reasonable and still qualifies him as a "real muslim". You are right though, he could have taken one part of the koran and decided he will be hateful towards us, but he obviously found something different in his book to what you saw and lived his life respectfully. As most people do.

He certainly doesnt rage to everyone about how bad other people are anyway.

Answer this: Yes or no. Does the Koran state the non-Muslims must pay a special tax?

**Da krimson barun**

nels1031 wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
How does this make world news?

Oh I get it, finally a atheist does something immoral that everyone can criticize and go "see, they're as bad as the rest of us after all"

If it had been a christian who claimed he was just standing his ground, defending his parking lot from muslims, Craig would already be home and nothing would have been said about it.

Easy, Dude it's only February. You've got ten more months to come up with The Most Idiotic Post of 2015. Pace yourself.

He may be trying to take a run at all ten of the Top Ten Most Idiotic Posts list though.

What about "katanas!Sharpness!Control!" guy?I think he is a contender.

**Swastakowey**

Technically yes, but as far as im aware this is no longer enforced outside of extremest conquered zones.

So by your logic of "true muslims should be nasty because this..." means that no muslims fit that criteria except the truly nasty ones. Which we all knew anyway.

**NuggzTheNinja**

Swastakowey wrote:
Technically yes, but as far as im aware this is no longer enforced outside of extremest conquered zones.

So by your logic of "true muslims should be nasty because this..." means that no muslims fit that criteria except the truly nasty ones. Which we all knew anyway.

Well now we're assuming that there's real debate in Islamic communities over how the laws of the 'good book' should be enforced. I'm not sure that's the case. A lot of the time, the difference between the extremists and "moderates" lie in actions rather than beliefs. The "moderates" won't necessarily blow themselves up in an elementary school gymnasium to make their point, but they aren't going to condemn persecution of non-Muslims. After all, the book says you're supposed to do it. "Moderation" really isn't tolerated in Islamic societies whether or not the majority of people are willing to do the awful things that they passively condone.

**Swastakowey**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
Technically yes, but as far as im aware this is no longer enforced outside of extremest conquered zones.

So by your logic of "true muslims should be nasty because this..." means that no muslims fit that criteria except the truly nasty ones. Which we all knew anyway.

Well now we're assuming that there's real debate in Islamic communities over how the laws of the 'good book' should be enforced. I'm not sure that's the case. A lot of the time, the difference between the extremists and "moderates" lie in actions rather than beliefs. The "moderates" won't necessarily blow themselves up in an elementary school gymnasium to make their point, but they aren't going to condemn persecution of non-Muslims. After all, the book says you're supposed to do it. "Moderation" really isn't tolerated in Islamic societies whether or not the majority of people are willing to do the awful things that they passively condone.

Woah wait, Muslims passively condone Terrorist acts?

They dont condemn violent acts against non believers?

Well why did they stop the non believer tax then? Why is it when charlie was killed many muslims spoke out in disgust? Why did muslim and christian leaders march against the christian persecution?

I know you have some deep rooted hatred in there, but generalizing masses of people to fit your idea of them is always a big no no. Because when you generalize you are always wrong.

There is no changing your mind. I think maybe you need to meet some Muslims and ask if they want you dead but don't want to kill you. You will find your answer there. I can guarantee no Muslim will say "yes nuggz, I want you dead, but I wont do it, ill let him over there do it! After all its in my trusty book, it must be what I want!"

Personally I think the environment has more to do with terrorism than the religion. BUT the religion is part of that environment. Its an incredibly complex issue but to point at the fact that outdated and old concepts in the book are the cause of terrorist acts (many of which directly hurt many Muslims) even though many of those are not adhered to or followed is a bit far for me. Considering the more unstable the region, the more there is muslim support for suicide bombings for example (passive support), however the more stable the region, a lot less support. Clearly extremism has a bit more to do with the environment, although like all of us, im no expert.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Swastakowey wrote:
Technically yes, but as far as im aware this is no longer enforced outside of extremest conquered zones.

What does that mean?
Technically yes. Which verses? Why is it not applied? Do Muslims that do not apply it say it is not what the Quran ask, or that what the Quran ask is wrong, or what?

**Swastakowey**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
Technically yes, but as far as im aware this is no longer enforced outside of extremest conquered zones.

What does that mean?
Technically yes. Which verses? Why is it not applied? Do Muslims that do not apply it say it is not what the Quran ask, or that what the Quran ask is wrong, or what?

I don't know? ask a Muslim for a decent perspective.

Why is it if someone is apart of something they need to support everything about it? I mean technically because in the Koran there is a tax for believers and non believers. Some governments used to tax non believers more than believers, but now the 2 taxing systems have been ,merged or more accurately there is now one taxing for all. although im no expert.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Swastakowey wrote:
I don't know? ask a Muslim for a decent perspective.

My friends are ex-muslims

.
But actually, it is your perspective I am interested in.

Swastakowey wrote:
Why is it if someone is apart of something they need to support everything about it?

Basically, the Quran is supposed to have been literally worded by God (and unchanged, ever). So, I would like to know how to reconcile believing it is worded by God, God being perfect and good and omniscient and omnipotent and all that, and not applying part of the Quran.
I would like your perspective on this.

Swastakowey wrote:
I mean technically because in the Koran there is a tax for believers and non believers.

Again, I am asking for reference. Is that really in the Quran? Or the hadith? How is it worded?

Swastakowey wrote:
Some governments used to tax non believers more than believers, but now the 2 taxing systems have been ,merged or more accurately there is now one taxing for all.

But who made this change? Was it done by a government, or by some religious figure? How does it go with the very, very uncentralized nature of Sunni Islam?

**NuggzTheNinja**

Swastakowey wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
Technically yes, but as far as im aware this is no longer enforced outside of extremest conquered zones.

So by your logic of "true muslims should be nasty because this..." means that no muslims fit that criteria except the truly nasty ones. Which we all knew anyway.

Well now we're assuming that there's real debate in Islamic communities over how the laws of the 'good book' should be enforced. I'm not sure that's the case. A lot of the time, the difference between the extremists and "moderates" lie in actions rather than beliefs. The "moderates" won't necessarily blow themselves up in an elementary school gymnasium to make their point, but they aren't going to condemn persecution of non-Muslims. After all, the book says you're supposed to do it. "Moderation" really isn't tolerated in Islamic societies whether or not the majority of people are willing to do the awful things that they passively condone.

Woah wait, Muslims passively condone Terrorist acts?

They dont condemn violent acts against non believers?

Well why did they stop the non believer tax then? Why is it when charlie was killed many muslims spoke out in disgust? Why did muslim and christian leaders march against the christian persecution?

I know you have some deep rooted hatred in there, but generalizing masses of people to fit your idea of them is always a big no no. Because when you generalize you are always wrong.

There is no changing your mind. I think maybe you need to meet some Muslims and ask if they want you dead but don't want to kill you. You will find your answer there. I can guarantee no Muslim will say "yes nuggz, I want you dead, but I wont do it, ill let him over there do it! After all its in my trusty book, it must be what I want!"

Personally I think the environment has more to do with terrorism than the religion. BUT the religion is part of that environment. Its an incredibly complex issue but to point at the fact that outdated and old concepts in the book are the cause of terrorist acts (many of which directly hurt many Muslims) even though many of those are not adhered to or followed is a bit far for me. Considering the more unstable the region, the more there is muslim support for suicide bombings for example (passive support), however the more stable the region, a lot less support. Clearly extremism has a bit more to do with the environment, although like all of us, im no expert.

They didn't stop the nonbeliever tax.

In Egypt they were just killing Christians for failing to pay it. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/
They do it in Syria: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10666257/Militant-Islamist-group-in-Syria-orders-Christians-to-pay-protection-tax.html

They do it outside of Islamic countries too: https://moneyjihad.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/modern-jizya-table/

Everywhere they can get away with it, they force their beliefs on non-Muslims or kill them outright. Claiming that they "stopped" the non-believer tax is an outright lie.

**Swastakowey**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
Technically yes, but as far as im aware this is no longer enforced outside of extremest conquered zones.

So by your logic of "true muslims should be nasty because this..." means that no muslims fit that criteria except the truly nasty ones. Which we all knew anyway.

Well now we're assuming that there's real debate in Islamic communities over how the laws of the 'good book' should be enforced. I'm not sure that's the case. A lot of the time, the difference between the extremists and "moderates" lie in actions rather than beliefs. The "moderates" won't necessarily blow themselves up in an elementary school gymnasium to make their point, but they aren't going to condemn persecution of non-Muslims. After all, the book says you're supposed to do it. "Moderation" really isn't tolerated in Islamic societies whether or not the majority of people are willing to do the awful things that they passively condone.

Woah wait, Muslims passively condone Terrorist acts?

They dont condemn violent acts against non believers?

Well why did they stop the non believer tax then? Why is it when charlie was killed many muslims spoke out in disgust? Why did muslim and christian leaders march against the christian persecution?

I know you have some deep rooted hatred in there, but generalizing masses of people to fit your idea of them is always a big no no. Because when you generalize you are always wrong.

There is no changing your mind. I think maybe you need to meet some Muslims and ask if they want you dead but don't want to kill you. You will find your answer there. I can guarantee no Muslim will say "yes nuggz, I want you dead, but I wont do it, ill let him over there do it! After all its in my trusty book, it must be what I want!"

Personally I think the environment has more to do with terrorism than the religion. BUT the religion is part of that environment. Its an incredibly complex issue but to point at the fact that outdated and old concepts in the book are the cause of terrorist acts (many of which directly hurt many Muslims) even though many of those are not adhered to or followed is a bit far for me. Considering the more unstable the region, the more there is muslim support for suicide bombings for example (passive support), however the more stable the region, a lot less support. Clearly extremism has a bit more to do with the environment, although like all of us, im no expert.

They didn't stop the nonbeliever tax.

In Egypt they were just killing Christians for failing to pay it. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/
They do it in Syria: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10666257/Militant-Islamist-group-in-Syria-orders-Christians-to-pay-protection-tax.html

They do it outside of Islamic countries too: https://moneyjihad.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/modern-jizya-table/

Everywhere they can get away with it, they force their beliefs on non-Muslims or kill them outright. Claiming that they "stopped" the non-believer tax is an outright lie.

"They"

or "Muslims"

How many Muslims are part of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt?

How many Muslims in Syria are in that militant Islamist group?

What government enforces this tax? None. No country has this tax. Only extreme groups, which we all knew as said before.

These are groups of some groups of Muslims. Not Muslims. Muslims are not one giant group of people. As I said:

Technically yes, but as far as im aware this is no longer enforced outside of extremest conquered zones.

So there you have it. Its a complex thing, anyway, like most people, im not a fan of bigots. So lets agree to disagree. I got crummy spread sheets to think about.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Swastakowey wrote:
What government enforces this tax? None. No country has this tax.

Not even Saudi Arabia? Are you sure?

You know, I do not think anything you could say would convince Nuggz.

**Swastakowey**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
What government enforces this tax? None. No country has this tax.

Not even Saudi Arabia? Are you sure?

You know, I do not think anything you could say would convince Nuggz.

Apparently the non believer tax is not used in Saudi Arabia no. The Jizya (according to the internet) is not enforced by any government or nation. Only by extremists.

Which even according to the nuggz, is true since he could only fond evidence to support this.

**Dropbear Victim**

So who pays toward the crusader wager for deaths by atheists?

**marv335**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
What government enforces this tax? None. No country has this tax.

Not even Saudi Arabia? Are you sure?

You know, I do not think anything you could say would convince Nuggz.

I'm an Atheist from the UK, I live in Saudi Arabia.
No-one has ever asked me to pay any tax.
Of course, I don't tell anyone.

Atheists are discriminated against heavily here though, we were actually officially declared terrorists last year.
Penalty is beheading.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Yeah, but it is Saudi Arabia. Triple standards means you should be fine.

**sirlynchmob**

Dropbear Victim wrote:
So who pays toward the crusader wager for deaths by atheists?

Well if he did it for his country which is a christian nation, it should count for the crusader wager.

But I think the guy will go bankrupt, if he's even man enough to pay up, after this.
speaking of oppression and christians:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

**Swastakowey**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Dropbear Victim wrote:
So who pays toward the crusader wager for deaths by atheists?

Well if he did it for his country which is a christian nation, it should count for the crusader wager.

But I think the guy will go bankrupt, if he's even man enough to pay up, after this.
speaking of oppression and christians:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

I dont think you read the article.

A mostly Muslim force took over the land, the leader stepped down, the Christians who were victim to the mostly Muslim army have decided to flush them out now that the Muslim force left over from the ex rebel leader are no longer able to protect themselves from the christian vigilantes.

Of course, this does not excuse the situation, just next time read the article. Its a bit more complex than christian oppression.

**mitch_rifle**

Imagine if he done it with a katana

**sirlynchmob**

Swastakowey wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
Dropbear Victim wrote:
So who pays toward the crusader wager for deaths by atheists?

Well if he did it for his country which is a christian nation, it should count for the crusader wager.

But I think the guy will go bankrupt, if he's even man enough to pay up, after this.
speaking of oppression and christians:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

I dont think you read the article.

A mostly Muslim force took over the land, the leader stepped down, the Christians who were victim to the mostly Muslim army have decided to flush them out now that the Muslim force left over from the ex rebel leader are no longer able to protect themselves from the christian vigilantes.

Of course, this does not excuse the situation, just next time read the article. Its a bit more complex than christian oppression.

It's like the crusades all over again.

**Jehan-reznor**

Damn so now Atheists are dangerous too, I am glad that i am Dudeist, At least It is safe in the Bowling alley
Uhm maybe not.

Spoiler:

**RivenSkull**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Answer this: Yes or no. Does the Koran state the non-Muslims must pay a special tax?

Answer these: Yes or no

Does the Bible condone of mass murder and rape?
Does the Bible support slavery?
Does the Bible support sex slavery?
Does the Bible state that the punishment for disobeying a priest is death?
Does the Bible state that conquered peoples must convert or be killed?

It swings both ways.

**sebster**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Those Muslims are not practicing their faith correctly, according to the "real Muslims." Have you paid your infidel tax lately? If not, then "real Muslims" would consider your neighbors to be "fake Muslims" who don't follow the book properly.

If you actually read what the Koran says, it's institutionalized discrimination against anyone who is not a Muslim. I've known some pretty cool Muslims, and also a few who were totally insane. The problem is that the religion itself is fundamentally geared toward discrimination.

I’m sure this will totally blow your mind, but any group with thousands members, let alone millions or even a billion, is going to have a lot of diversity. No part of that group has any right to call itself any more real than any other.

So just as you get atheists who hate religions and think stopping other people believing will achieve something, you also get atheists who just think people can believe whatever they want. Neither is more real than the other. And you get Muslims who believe that they must remain separate to non-Muslims, and others who think no such thing.

And of course, in every case you get outsiders assigning typically negative beliefs to all of a group because, you know, bigotry exists.

If you want a hard number to prove how wrong your claim is - in the US 45% of Muslims marry outside of their faith.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Swastakowey wrote:
No one is safe from atheist discrimination, even atheists hate each other (as witnessed at college etc). Sick group of people. Really toxic and horrid.

You shouldn't confuse know it all jerks at college with what people are like once they've had some sense kicked in to them.

**Swastakowey**

Dont worry dude, I didnt mean it. My best friend was like that once. Now we get to laugh about it today.

Of course, not everyone grows out of it though.