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Taking obvious exceptional things and making it a generality is convoluted.

40k generalities regarding SM's put them at superhuman levels in various ways. How that looks is artistic license I suppose, but, generally they will be supernaturally impressive in these regards. Agreed?

Eldar...... they may have some exceptional warriors, with some exceptional situations of note, but generally, they are not put on the same level or higher than a space marine - lore wise.

Banshee screams are indeed partially psychic and sonic. You don't need to hear it to be affected by it. The eldar codex stated it on numerous occasions and being resistent to psychic powers offers certain protection, but not necessarly immunity. They can even affect Lichguard. The powers of the Banshee makes them by far the most dangerous fighter in the 40K universe for they can paralyse any foe before killing them with their impressive swordsmen skills and superhuman speed. The only chance a Space Marine have to kill a Banshee in duel (no matter his skills) is to shoot it before it reach close combat. Since this is very bothering for any writer who wants his main character to survive the encounter, Banshee rarelly use their masks powers or the main character benefit from some frendly meat shield that allows him to recover (the effect last only for a few second after all) and fight the Banshee normaly.

@kveldulf

In fact, eldar Aspect Warriors have always been put on the same level than Space Marines if not higher when it comes to their specialty. Path of the Eldar present Scorpions capable of defeating Space Marines with equal numbers, a farseer capable of defeating a Chief Librarian. Even the strongest Space Marine champion can be defeated by their equivalent in the eldar civilisation. For exemple Abbadon was defeated by Eldrad in single combat and only escaped with his life.

Craftworlds aren't the only ones to have combattants capable of matching Space Marines. In Path of the Dark Eldar, a squad of hekatrix bloodbrides managed to carve a path easily through squads of Plague Marines. Incubi had an even easier time against the same foe. Kabalite warriors were easily killed by the Space Marines.

All armies have combattants capable of matching Space Marines (even the best ones) in one on one. Eldar and Necrons are probably those who can do it the most easily.

epronovost wrote:
Craftworlds aren't the only ones to have combattants capable of matching Space Marines.

*A shadow appears in a corner.*

*It walks up and reveals itself to be Brothers of the Snake.*

*It says nothing.*

*It smiles.*

*It walks away.*

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Also if SM ears were able to filter out sounds and stuff, Sonic weapons would be useless against them, yet the Emperors Children have been using them against marines since the Heresy.

Being deaf wouldn't save you from sonic weaponry. It has nothing to do with the sound, but with the pressure waves. Whether or not the Marines' autosenses filtered the noise, they'd still be getting hit by the sound waves themselves.

Actually, in Angel Exterminatus, there's a deaf marine who isn't affected by sonic weapons...

Argh, More McNeillisms, lol. Remember, this is the guy who has Marines run out of ammo in one scene, then have more in the next, or lose a hand three quarters of the way through a novel but have both in the climactic battle scene.

This is why it's dangerous to not have any content editors at The Black Library, lol.

epronovost wrote:
Banshee screams are indeed partially psychic and sonic. You don't need to hear it to be affected by it. The eldar codex stated it on numerous occasions and being resistent to psychic powers offers certain protection, but not necessarly immunity. They can even affect Lichguard. The powers of the Banshee makes them by far the most dangerous fighter in the 40K universe for they can paralyse any foe before killing them with their impressive swordsmen skills and superhuman speed. The only chance a Space Marine have to kill a Banshee in duel (no matter his skills) is to shoot it before it reach close combat. Since this is very bothering for any writer who wants his main character to survive the encounter, Banshee rarelly use their masks powers or the main character benefit from some frendly meat shield that allows him to recover (the effect last only for a few second after all) and fight the Banshee normaly.

@kveldulf

In fact, eldar Aspect Warriors have always been put on the same level than Space Marines if not higher when it comes to their specialty. Path of the Eldar present Scorpions capable of defeating Space Marines with equal numbers, a farseer capable of defeating a Chief Librarian. Even the strongest Space Marine champion can be defeated by their equivalent in the eldar civilisation. For exemple Abbadon was defeated by Eldrad in single combat and only escaped with his life.

Craftworlds aren't the only ones to have combattants capable of matching Space Marines. In Path of the Dark Eldar, a squad of hekatrix bloodbrides managed to carve a path easily through squads of Plague Marines. Incubi had an even easier time against the same foe. Kabalite warriors were easily killed by the Space Marines.

All armies have combattants capable of matching Space Marines (even the best ones) in one on one. Eldar and Necrons are probably those who can do it the most easily.

Exalted. Personally I've always seen it as Eldar having more speed, skill and brainpower but its put on an even ground when you factor in the space Marines raw power and durability

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Also if SM ears were able to filter out sounds and stuff, Sonic weapons would be useless against them, yet the Emperors Children have been using them against marines since the Heresy.

Being deaf wouldn't save you from sonic weaponry. It has nothing to do with the sound, but with the pressure waves. Whether or not the Marines' autosenses filtered the noise, they'd still be getting hit by the sound waves themselves.

Actually, in Angel Exterminatus, there's a deaf marine who isn't affected by sonic weapons...

Argh, More McNeillisms, lol. Remember, this is the guy who has Marines run out of ammo in one scene, then have more in the next, or lose a hand three quarters of the way through a novel but have both in the climactic battle scene.

This is why it's dangerous to not have any content editors at The Black Library, lol.

Yeah I know haha, I didn't take it seriously when I read it, and posting it here was merely facetiousness but in all seriousness i didn't think about the way sonic weapons actually damaged when I said about sonic weapons being used against marines. I just went 'sonic - sound - wouldn't work if they couldn't hear it!' Makes a lot more sense now, especially ignoring McNeills... Inconsistent writing...

"Eldar have superduperspeed" is a result of the fact that Black Library's writers are by and large lazy (either by nature or because this is just a job to them and they are churning out material as fast as they can). and/or talentless. It is a lazy, bad-writing way of getting across the "elves are quick" archetype. A talented, or interested, writer would convey this in some more subtle fashion than the ridiculous "they dodge bullets!" stuff.

Same goes for a lot of Marine fluff by the way. The writers are too awful, or too uninterested, to convey being a supersoldier in any other way that "they move like a blur!" (like the most cliche thing you can think of).

 Happyjew wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
You found one quote that conflicts with literally every time Astartes have ever picked up a firearm and used it. Gunshots are just as loud as a sonic scream, if not greater depending on the powder used the velocity of the rounds.

And you can provide a source that backs up the underlined?

We have no idea how loud a Harpies sonic scream is, nor what the frequency of it is. For all we know, it is more destructive than the firing of boltguns, because source material tells us so, and nothing contradicts it.

Considering the size of the Bolter, it would be 190 Decibels or greater. It's .75-1.00, and a .50 is already loud enough to make you deaf for an entire day without ear protection.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
You found one quote that conflicts with literally every time Astartes have ever picked up a firearm and used it. Gunshots are just as loud as a sonic scream, if not greater depending on the powder used the velocity of the rounds.

And you can provide a source that backs up the underlined?

We have no idea how loud a Harpies sonic scream is, nor what the frequency of it is. For all we know, it is more destructive than the firing of boltguns, because source material tells us so, and nothing contradicts it.

Considering the size of the Bolter, it would be 190 Decibels or greater. It's .75-1.00, and a .50 is already loud enough to make you deaf for an entire day without ear protection.

I suppose that'd be true if Bolters acted like modern firearms.

Which they don't.

Either way, you're arguing stated, quoted fluff with whining about logic - something which does NOT exist in abundance within 40k.

 david choe wrote:
What about noise marines… they love sounds and get excited with this… they should get frenzy rules if Banshee scream or Harpy sonic attacked them… gak… if other sonic weapons fired at them.. they should be happy too.

Maybe rather than going into a frenzy, the noise marines suffer a sort of noise induced orgasm and it's this pleasure, rather than the pain felt by most others, that causes the temporary paralysis that the Banshees capitalise on