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I spend more time on WMH and Infinity than 40k these days, but I still have a play group that likes it and I still enjoy the models. 40k is also the most widespread wargame; you can go to a strange city and be pretty assured of finding a game of 40k in a way you can't with any other game.
AnomanderRake wrote: I spend more time on WMH and Infinity than 40k these days, but I still have a play group that likes it and I still enjoy the models. 40k is also the most widespread wargame; you can go to a strange city and be pretty assured of finding a game of 40k in a way you can't with any other game.
WMH is fun, but I'd rather play 40k any day. The armies of WMH are too similar IMO, they have their aesthetics, but in the pursuit of balance it seems that Privateer Press made the factions play very similarly with almost analogous units across the armies.
Infinity seems like a lot of fun, I just haven't been able to will myself into it when there are no players anywhere near my meta.
I don't get these comments people are making saying its the same every time a dex is released - people get up in arms and consider quitting. That may have happened with a small amout of players with Necrons and Knights but it didn't happen with:
-Skitarii
-BA -DE -Khorne DK -Harlequins
-SW -GK -Inquisiton
-AM -Assassins
-Tyranids
-MT -Orks
-C:SM ...
In fact if you go back all the way until the last eldar dex, there were only two other dexes that made more than a couple of individuals complain to a fifth of the extent we have seen with this dex. There has never been this much backlash from a dex release on dakka since I've joined the site. Not even remotely close. So people who say this happens every time - no, it doesn't.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/20 01:22:53
Well, grey knights in 5th. But as the number of customers dwindle, the white knights get louder in their defense of gw. So it has to 'always be like this' otherwise there might actually be a problem, and that's inconceivable.
I think they're equating the few players who always complain about a release with what's going on right now- massive levels of complaints on a scale beyond what I've seen going through 5th edition (can't particularly comment on earlier).
Leafblower was a big offender back in the day, but what made leafblower so bad was the mechanics of the game itself (i.e. rules for vehicles). I don't see how scatbikes will be particularly neutered in the event of 8th edition the way 6th edition broke leafblower down. D-weapons taking a hit also wouldn't change the fact that things like wraithknights are priced so darn cheap.
Necron got grief largely from all of the free things the decurion formation gave them, which seems to have resulted in a lot of people playing roughly the same army to take maximum advantage of the bonuses, resulting in an army that isn't really any better because of skill, but entirely "good" based on list-building.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Torga_DW wrote: Well, grey knights in 5th. But as the number of customers dwindle, the white knights get louder in their defense of gw. So it has to 'always be like this' otherwise there might actually be a problem, and that's inconceivable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/20 01:34:43
AnomanderRake wrote: I spend more time on WMH and Infinity than 40k these days, but I still have a play group that likes it and I still enjoy the models. 40k is also the most widespread wargame; you can go to a strange city and be pretty assured of finding a game of 40k in a way you can't with any other game.
WMH is fun, but I'd rather play 40k any day. The armies of WMH are too similar IMO, they have their aesthetics, but in the pursuit of balance it seems that Privateer Press made the factions play very similarly with almost analogous units across the armies.
Infinity seems like a lot of fun, I just haven't been able to will myself into it when there are no players anywhere near my meta.
Uh huh, they all play the same? Where as in 40k you have various multicolored vanilla space marines, red disgruntled space marines, green robe wearing space marines, silver holy space marines, slightly weaker female fanatical space marines, grey nordic bearded space marines, evil various multicolored space marines and than a spattering of bullet catcher humans, some bugs, terminator looking space marines, some guys that fell out of an anime movie onto the table top, Da' Orkz!, and now some mangled up scrap humans. Please play more Warmachine and Hordes before saying every army plays the same.
But, that isn't the point, cool, you would rather play 40k. Go for it, but by continuing to give GW your money, even if they can just destroy the balance of the game with one book. Why on earth would they change their business policy when your purchases are continuing to fuel it? All I wanted to say with my first post is that 40k isn't the "One game to rule them all." The market is flooded with other options, good options too.
And why not try Infinity? Split the starter box with a friend and just learn to play together and than teach other people how to play. Games don't develop communities over night, and the meta has to start somewhere. Instead of just staying with a game made by a company that doesnt care because it is easy, be proactive in changes with your gaming group and GW.
Crap, in the last two years I have taught over thirty people in my area Warmachine/Hordes and Malifaux. We created our community and never struggle to find a game because they are teaching people too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/20 04:30:29
ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote: All I wanted to say with my first post is that 40k isn't the "One game to rule them all." The market is flooded with other options, good options too.
And why not try Infinity? Split the starter box with a friend and just learn to play together and than teach other people how to play. Games don't develop communities over night, and the meta has to start somewhere. Instead of just staying with a game made by a company that doesnt care because it is easy, be proactive in changes with your gaming group and GW.
Crap, in the last two years I have taught over thirty people in my area Warmachine/Hordes and Malifaux. We created our community and never struggle to find a game because they are teaching people too.
Sadly, there isn't a single other scifi wargame that's designed for a larger scale (100+ model). For our group, "Rule of Cool" definitely applies. Our tabletops are packed with as much awesomeness as we can muster -- in this our group is like-minded.
We used to play Warmachines intermittently, we still play XWing here and there, and we've tried Mailfaux and Infinity, but in the end, it all comes down to the same thing: these other games just feel so "light", and there is no Cool Factor on the tabletop, which just trumps about everything else. I would rather have the worst rules in the world and the best models, than the other way around. Of course, I'd rather have great models and great rules!
Where 40k/WHFB differs from all the other options is that in these games, you invest tremendously (in some cases, 2000+ hours) in creating a model-based army, and then go forth to enjoy playing it. I shed a tear when Draigo dies. It's like my Level 20 Mage getting roasted by a black dragon in D&D. NOOOOOO!
In every other game, the models feel just like game pieces. I have no affinity for them -- which is ok, but it's just different. Gaming mats and paper gaming surfaces just feel so... board-game-ish, that I'd rather go play on the PC or Xbox.
Don't get me wrong. 40k is DEFINITELY not for everyone. I'd even go so far as to say, it's not for most. I regularly talk people out of it (or warn people away) at my FLGS, even though I love the game. I just know it won't be their thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/20 04:32:05
I see your point about wanting oodles of models on the table forthat cool factor. But putting 100+ models on a 4x6 each side is in my opinion ccumbersome and yes, 40k can handle it... But just barely, and if I wanted mass battles I would go 6mm all day long.
But I do feel your pain, I spent an ungodly amount of hours converting every single model for my Imperial Fists battle company, collecting all of the Rogue Trader to Third Edition Death Guard models for my Chaos army, and I am still working on the Steel Legion Guard Army I bought years ago. Don't get me wrong, when it comes to just modelling for fun, I break out my old GW models and have at it, but I haven't bought anything from GW in years, it won't stop me from enjoying my models as what they are, models, but you won't catch me buying rulebook after rulebook.
And it is hard to find a new game/company after you have invested so much time, effort, rage and love into 40k and Fantasy. Especially when the lore, books and spin off games have done so much to expand the universe and really make it unique. It took me a good long time to fully port over to Privateer Press, and now Wyrd, but it got easier as the fluff for Warmachine/Hordes expanded giving me more detail into their world and the that characters inhabit it. Malifaux, hell I just love the style.
AnomanderRake wrote: I spend more time on WMH and Infinity than 40k these days, but I still have a play group that likes it and I still enjoy the models. 40k is also the most widespread wargame; you can go to a strange city and be pretty assured of finding a game of 40k in a way you can't with any other game.
WMH is fun, but I'd rather play 40k any day. The armies of WMH are too similar IMO, they have their aesthetics, but in the pursuit of balance it seems that Privateer Press made the factions play very similarly with almost analogous units across the armies.
Infinity seems like a lot of fun, I just haven't been able to will myself into it when there are no players anywhere near my meta.
I don't follow. Saminess is something I could see people complaining about in Infinity or Bolt Action, but in WMH? The level of off-the-wall wacky is a step above and beyond any other wargame; no faction plays like any other faction, even if there are some shared mechanics.
I just emailed GW and said goodbye. I did note how much I've spent on my models and that I am sad to say goodbye to a game that has so much potential. I doubt they will care, though.
email their customer service. They are pretty good about getting back to you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They just got back to me. They asked that I email them when craftworlds is released to let them know what I think should be changed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/20 17:37:54
cm32 wrote: email their customer service. They are pretty good about getting back to you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They just got back to me. They asked that I email them when craftworlds is released to let them know what I think should be changed.
Can you post the full text of their reply, please?
cm32 wrote: email their customer service. They are pretty good about getting back to you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They just got back to me. They asked that I email them when craftworlds is released to let them know what I think should be changed.
Now, that's actually interesting. In the decade plus that I've been playing, I haven't seen them respond in such a way. Maybe the community comes to a consensus on how the codex should be changed and consistantly emails customer service, GW will actually FAQ it.
This is probably the first time in years that I've been hopeful of GW listening to the fanbase, but I'm taking that with a mountain of salt.
I'd really like to see the email the sent you.
cm32 wrote: email their customer service. They are pretty good about getting back to you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They just got back to me. They asked that I email them when craftworlds is released to let them know what I think should be changed.
Can you post the full text of their reply, please?
cm32 wrote: email their customer service. They are pretty good about getting back to you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They just got back to me. They asked that I email them when craftworlds is released to let them know what I think should be changed.
Now, that's actually interesting. In the decade plus that I've been playing, I haven't seen them respond in such a way. Maybe the community comes to a consensus on how the codex should be changed and consistantly emails customer service, GW will actually FAQ it.
This is probably the first time in years that I've been hopeful of GW listening to the fanbase, but I'm taking that with a mountain of salt.
I'd really like to see the email the sent you.
Their response:
Hi there,
Thanks for writing in to us, although I'm sorry you no longer find enjoyment with Warhammer 40,000. I don't know what all has been rumored about Codex: Craftworlds, nor would I be in a position to confirm or invalidate said rumors. However, once this product has released I'd encourage you to email in what problems you find with it, and I will forward your comments to the appropriate parties as feedback.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 04:48:35
Thanks for writing in to us, although I'm sorry you no longer find enjoyment with Warhammer 40,000. I don't know what all has been rumored about Codex: Craftworlds, nor would I be in a position to confirm or invalidate said rumors. However, once this product has released I'd encourage you to email in what problems you find with it, and I will forward your comments to the appropriate parties as feedback.
Torga_DW wrote:Sorry to hear that you will no longer be a customer. Please purchase the new eldar codex on your way out.
Thanks for writing in to us, although I'm sorry you no longer find enjoyment with Warhammer 40,000. I don't know what all has been rumored about Codex: Craftworlds, nor would I be in a position to confirm or invalidate said rumors. However, once this product has released I'd encourage you to email in what problems you find with it, and I will forward your comments to the appropriate parties as feedback.
Torga_DW wrote:Sorry to hear that you will no longer be a customer. Please purchase the new eldar codex on your way out.
Deschenus Maximus wrote: What is there to consider from someone saying "you're wasting your time, GW will never listen"?
Perhaps that you might avoid wasting your time because GW will never listen? What's this high-handed 'ignore' garbage about, anyway? How old are you, twelve?
You're not the first and you definitely won't be the last. If I had a pound for every call for a GW boycott or letter-writing campaign that I've seen, I'd have enough money for a GW army. GW doesn't care. They 'know' that all you little WAACers and listbuilders don't climb over your own grandmothers to buy this junk because it's balanced, but because it is unbalanced. Cor, doze elder has ded powerful gunz and get lots ov 'em. I kill lotsa minies without no brainpower - I just pay to win! I gotta have 'em!
For a long while they were right, too. These days, despite Toofast's delusions, their sales are dropping and I'd say at least a tiny part of that phenomenon is because fewer people are buying into this balance-churn of selling and reselling and reselling the same broken rubbish over and over again. It's arguably what killed WHFB 8th and forced the changes of 9th - people just stopped buying. (Whether GW still know how to make 9th a good game, after their years of catering for imbalance-indoctrinated min-maxers, is debateable.)
That's the answer. As others said, no need to waste your time with letters or emails that'll just go straight into the bin; just stop buying. If the models are awful, don't throw your piggy bank at them. Just stop buying. If the rules are crap and unenjoyable, don't keep punching yourself in the face with them. Just stop buying. It's not rocket science, and you definitely won't be going it alone if you just stop buying. You'll join an ever-growing club of wargamers. Welcome, brother. Welcome.
Or, alternatively, farewell, since I had the effrontery to dare question your ridiculous ideas. I guess I'm ignored now. I'll just have to cry into my pillow and take each day as it comes.
Saved me typing the same.
Just stop playing. find another game. GW dont interact with the customer base and will ride this Jervis train wreck all the way to the end.
I got off the Jervis express a while ago now and sometimes have a glance back at the slowest train wreck in the world for a giggle.
I almost fell off my chair laughing when I read Jetbikes could take Scatters, and Distortion guns become Strength D
Just stop playing. find another game. GW dont interact with the customer base and will ride this Jervis train wreck all the way to the end.
I got off the Jervis express a while ago now and sometimes have a glance back at the slowest train wreck in the world for a giggle.
I almost fell off my chair laughing when I read Jetbikes could take Scatters, and Distortion guns become Strength D
Got too much time and money sunk into this game to just quit.
I am diversifying though. I bought into the Heavy Gear kickstarter. Maybe that will get me to kick the 40k habit.
Hive Fleet Aquarius 2-1-0
4/4/0 