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I think it comes down to how the knight player handled himself overall.
One side of me says it was a bit harsh entering what I assume was a clearly labelled newbie tournamanet.
The other side says though, its a tournament and one learns from defeats - even crushing ones.
If the guy after the event collected his trophy and walked out of the store laughing outloud, then yeah Im calling TFG.
But if he took some time to chat to his opponents afterwards, explain that a knight is fairly hardcore at 750, offer some advice, give some pointers and hell even play another offline game to give tactics thats pretty cool.

I've played in tourneys here against some of thre top Irish players but most of them afterwards have grabbed a pint with me and gone over some ideas/tactics and advice whether I was tabled or gave them a close fought game.

Its all about how he conducted himself overall imo, not the actual knight.

It is interesting that it being said "An Imperial Knight has no place in a beginning tournament." but would it not be a high interest model for an "actual" beginner?

It is allowed by the rules and a beginner would genuinely not know this is a bad thing to do. I need to say again: it is allowed by the rules..

 Talizvar wrote:
It is interesting that it being said "An Imperial Knight has no place in a beginning tournament." but would it not be a high interest model for an "actual" beginner?

It is allowed by the rules and a beginner would genuinely not know this is a bad thing to do. I need to say again: it is allowed by the rules..

I agree with you, high interest model, very much legal as battle forged. I think one poster said it better than I could. People were there to learn. I was there to help with rules and talk some people through the phases, etc. But getting stomped by a model nothing in your army could even glance was not conducive within the environment. I still feel that the person knew this was a likely scenario and did it anyway based on me being there. I know he has another army, I played it the week before at the non beginners tourny.

freedom of speech is a right, and people abuse the hell out of it all the time. Just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean you should IMO.

The only way in which I'd consider this not douchey is if other players were given notice so they could tailor their lists. I know I'd be pretty disheartened otherwise.

 redleger wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
It is interesting that it being said "An Imperial Knight has no place in a beginning tournament." but would it not be a high interest model for an "actual" beginner?

It is allowed by the rules and a beginner would genuinely not know this is a bad thing to do. I need to say again: it is allowed by the rules..

I agree with you, high interest model, very much legal as battle forged. I think one poster said it better than I could. People were there to learn. I was there to help with rules and talk some people through the phases, etc. But getting stomped by a model nothing in your army could even glance was not conducive within the environment. I still feel that the person knew this was a likely scenario and did it anyway based on me being there. I know he has another army, I played it the week before at the non beginners tourny.

freedom of speech is a right, and people abuse the hell out of it all the time. Just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean you should IMO.

Wait... So let me get this strait. This guy played a totally separate army in the non-beginners 'Tournament', and then turned around and played in a purely "Beginners" event with a model that essentially breaks the game at 750pts?

Experiment 626 wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
It is interesting that it being said "An Imperial Knight has no place in a beginning tournament." but would it not be a high interest model for an "actual" beginner?

It is allowed by the rules and a beginner would genuinely not know this is a bad thing to do. I need to say again: it is allowed by the rules..

I agree with you, high interest model, very much legal as battle forged. I think one poster said it better than I could. People were there to learn. I was there to help with rules and talk some people through the phases, etc. But getting stomped by a model nothing in your army could even glance was not conducive within the environment. I still feel that the person knew this was a likely scenario and did it anyway based on me being there. I know he has another army, I played it the week before at the non beginners tourny.

freedom of speech is a right, and people abuse the hell out of it all the time. Just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean you should IMO.

Wait... So let me get this strait. This guy played a totally separate army in the non-beginners 'Tournament', and then turned around and played in a purely "Beginners" event with a model that essentially breaks the game at 750pts?

yes

 redleger wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
It is interesting that it being said "An Imperial Knight has no place in a beginning tournament." but would it not be a high interest model for an "actual" beginner?

It is allowed by the rules and a beginner would genuinely not know this is a bad thing to do. I need to say again: it is allowed by the rules..

I agree with you, high interest model, very much legal as battle forged. I think one poster said it better than I could. People were there to learn. I was there to help with rules and talk some people through the phases, etc. But getting stomped by a model nothing in your army could even glance was not conducive within the environment. I still feel that the person knew this was a likely scenario and did it anyway based on me being there. I know he has another army, I played it the week before at the non beginners tourny.

freedom of speech is a right, and people abuse the hell out of it all the time. Just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean you should IMO.

Wait... So let me get this strait. This guy played a totally separate army in the non-beginners 'Tournament', and then turned around and played in a purely "Beginners" event with a model that essentially breaks the game at 750pts?

yes

Dude sounds like the very definition of 'Win at ALL Costs'.
He doesn't sound very much like a real beginner, especially if he's been playing in the regular events. He also likely knew full well that a Knight would be nearly impossible for new players to counter, especially if he knew that most of them would be limited to the likes of a DV set or basic Battleforce for the core of their army.
Even if he was simply wanting to play with his newest, shiniest cool toy, he should definitely have known better than to do so in that kind of environment.

If he tries to sign up for another Beginner's Tourney, he should be told in no short terms where to go... People like this are the reason that newer players either quit after a few games, or else abandon the local store(s) for their own much smaller personal 'group of friends'.

Sure the TO should have likely covered his backside and made clear certain basic rules such as, "No LoW allowed" for example, but seriously, it's a freaking beginner's event! Common bloody sense should tell you that bringing a LoW in such a small game, against a group of players who have maybe only played 1-3 games, (if at all!), is being a grade-A d-bag.
IMHO, what this guy did is no different than a lower end 'Rep' hockey team entering a House League tournament, just so they get trophies at the end of the weekend. No class.

Experiment 626 wrote:

...he should definitely have known better than to do so in that kind of environment.

...People like this are the reason that newer players either quit after a few games, or else abandon the local store(s) for their own much smaller personal 'group of friends'.

...Common bloody sense should tell you that bringing a LoW in such a small game, against a group of players who have maybe only played 1-3 games, (if at all!), is being a grade-A d-bag.

In this case, you're probably right. But this incident highlights many of the glaring problems with the current 40k meta. Saying "You should know better..." only works if everyone is playing by the same set of house-rules. In general, you can't just apply that statement because "common bloody sense" (as you call it) will be different from store to store or group to group. Someone who learns in a very cutthroat environment may not think anything of bringing a Knight to a 750pt game. Should this player have known better? Probably. But it's GW's fault, not the players', that this is even possible to begin with; bringing a single Knight should not break the game, even at 750 points.

More importantly, if this incident (and those like it) turn people off from the game, that is good. Because if the idea of putting your models on the table and then just taking them off by the handful is not your idea of a fun game, then 40k is not the game for you. This kind of poorly balanced, rock-paper-scissors-dynamite BS exists at every level of the game, not just low-points/beginner matches. The only way to endure 40k nowadays is to only play in groups with clearly understood house-rules and limitations, or to get really good at writing pre-nups/UN treaties to establish fairness before pick-up games.

I blame both the player, and the TO.

The TO for not limiting LoW./SupHeavies.

The player for being douche enough to bring something like that to a BEGINNERS tourney.

Have to wonder if the people he played are still as interested now as they were before? Or maybe they all want Knights now. LOL.

 Mort wrote:
I blame both the player, and the TO.

The TO for not limiting LoW./SupHeavies.

The player for being douche enough to bring something like that to a BEGINNERS tourney.

Have to wonder if the people he played are still as interested now as they were before? Or maybe they all want Knights now. LOL.

Interesting you say that. I stopped by saturday to shoot the breeze and talk with the owner. He pointed out that while he was away, someone bought the Warden he had sitting there on the shelf. So at the upcoming 2500 unbound tourny another player will be running knights. I already knew of one, and have planned accordingly for a 6 night list, but looks like someone else is drinking the cool-aid.

Well, I guess it boils down to what the appropriate definition of a "beginner" for these tournaments.
A guy with a couple armies is beginning to sound like not so much a beginner.

The TO will need to prepare appropriately to ensure some rules are laid down for army selection to ensure a wee bit more balance.
Too bad GW rules (points cost) are so unbalanced that a TO gets blamed or the player rather than GW.

It is a bit tiring to blame players for bringing a hard list that is well within the rules and treat it as a major social injustice.
"Competitive" is to play within the rules to the max, "WAAC" is to play to the max and not be bothered with things like rules.

Lords of war are part of the rules, Forgeworld models are allowed according to the rules, unbound armies are allowed according to the rules.
I am ready to accept that someone is going to field something with much greater power levels than me at some point or another: that is 40k according to the rules.
Next we will have to ban Eldar, Tau and Necron lists and it goes without saying Imperial Knights.

I am saying this because I wave the white flag when it comes to "pick-up" games for 40k.
Utterly pointless, I feel like I am entering some kind of peace treaty or developing my own tourney when "negotiating" a game with a stranger.
If I cannot play the game straight out of the box with a stranger, then it is not appropriate for that use.
There are regular players I go against where we have felt-out a certain power level and we get some pretty close games in, most other cases, that is pretty rare.

Any other times my list is at full power until proven otherwise.

If this wasn't a Knight it'll be something else, there's many of these threads where 'X' guy bought 'Y' unit to a tournament.

40K isn't balanced, and even with comp no one has managed to sort it out.
'Winning' at 40K has as much significance as 'Winning' at Snakes & Ladders.
TO's should be recognising this and organising events appropiately

Personaly I tend to keep my gaming to close friends only, where having a beer, eating snacks and socialising takes priority over the toy soliders.

In a 750pts army one could fit in a centurion star. I don't envy new knight players, looks like they can't join small games, can't join beginer tournaments and when they play 1500, they probably only get to play versus super tailored titan killer lists.

Since it's a beginners tournament, if it was me I would make 2 lists. One with the IK, one without. Then educate the opponent on what the knight does and ask if they are comfortable facing up against it. The judges may be ok with that, as many players at that level may not realize the threat big mechs pose, and may not be able to pose any real threat to it.