Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
To be fair to the Americans there has been a lot of protest and civil unrest recently against the police brutallity. It has come particularly from the black people who as shown earlier are the foremost victims.

This whole thread of course is to discuss the Amnesty International USA report on the situation. Amnesty are not an organisation that riots in the streets to get its point across. Their involvement shows that the problem is being taken seriously by at least part of US society.

Oh yeah, I had almost forgotten the whole Ferguson thing already. That gives some hope, altough it is still a pity that the action comes mostly from one particular group of US society, rather than from US society as a whole.
I also get the feeling there is more coverage of police brutality in the media (or maybe that is only because I started to pay attention to it) now, so maybe things will change.

Police brutality has been a growing issue. interestingly it has been a simmering issue by both the rightwingers, and minorities.

I've heard it posited that it has become a growing issue, not due to increased amounts of brutality, but increased awareness due to cameras and the internet.

aka, it's always been this way, but you're only hearing about it more nowadays.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I've heard it posited that it has become a growing issue, not due to increased amounts of brutality, but increased awareness due to cameras and the internet.

aka, it's always been this way, but you're only hearing about it more nowadays.

Makes sense. I mean, looking back, it seems like we only heard about Rodney King because his situation stood out so far from the "rest" of police incidents. Beyond that, the majority of "cop kills man" were kept to local news stories, so not very many people heard/read about them.

Rodney King was also one of the first videos of actual police abuse in real time.

I love this. Outside group gives criticism of our police force while a lot of the country is also criticizing them. Peoples response? "Stay out of our business!"

Despite the fact that we are having issues with Police Brutality and having an outside perspective has never been a bad thing. But you know, 'Murica!

Thats normal family psychology actually.

As Genghis Connie would say. "Only I get to talk gak about my brother!"

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Americans are taught from childhood to lick boot. The deference to "authority", for a people who once reveled in their individualism, intellectualism, and revolutionary ideals, is absolutely pathetic and disgusting. .

I don't think that's quite correct, on a national level. I know many families take the view of "respect authority" and at the same time "question authority"... Meaning, there's a right way and a wrong way to go about dealing with bad situations, especially in reference to law enforcement

You are right...I guess it depends on the location. Probably a lot of skepticism and mistrust more so in minority communities. Most of the blind respect I see coming from blue collar and poorer white rural communities.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
I love this. Outside group gives criticism of our police force while a lot of the country is also criticizing them. Peoples response? "Stay out of our business!"

Despite the fact that we are having issues with Police Brutality and having an outside perspective has never been a bad thing. But you know, 'Murica!

Indeed. I'm pretty sure that ad hominems are generally frowned upon, even when the person being attacked is an organization (hey, if corporations are people, why not organizations? ), but in this case it's apparently OK for some reason.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Police in nearly all countries are armed, yet it is only the USA, China, Russia, Iran and so on that have difficulties in complying with the standards.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a source for that info?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question for the crowd: In regards to stats on other nations, does whomever tracks the stats account for countries where militaries have a LE/internal security role (so that not all policing is done by police?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LAPD is one of the top 5 best police forces in the world according to this: http://www.listoffive.com/five-best-police-forces-in-the-world/

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Americans are taught from childhood to lick boot. The deference to "authority", for a people who once reveled in their individualism, intellectualism, and revolutionary ideals, is absolutely pathetic and disgusting. .

I don't think that's quite correct, on a national level. I know many families take the view of "respect authority" and at the same time "question authority"... Meaning, there's a right way and a wrong way to go about dealing with bad situations, especially in reference to law enforcement

You are right...I guess it depends on the location. Probably a lot of skepticism and mistrust more so in minority communities. Most of the blind respect I see coming from blue collar and poorer white rural communities.

That can vary widely too though. I'm not saying there aren't blue collar workers in poor rural communities who exhibit what you might call blind respect for the police, there are certainly plenty of meth heads and drug dealers in those communities stealing car batteries, chainsaws and copper wiring who hate the police just as much as the people from inner city communities who have lately been protesting. The difference is, the people in urban areas end up on CNN, and the people in rural areas don't.

They end up shirtless, on COPs.

 Frazzled wrote:
They end up shirtless, on COPs.

Well yeah, but COPS isn't on CNN.

Polceman give you no break....

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I've heard it posited that it has become a growing issue, not due to increased amounts of brutality, but increased awareness due to cameras and the internet.

aka, it's always been this way, but you're only hearing about it more nowadays.

That may be true but it does not necessarily make people's increased concerns wrong.

I fully agree with that Kil, I did not intend to come across otherwise.

 CptJake wrote:

LAPD is one of the top 5 best police forces in the world according to this: http://www.listoffive.com/five-best-police-forces-in-the-world/

Yes but that also says that Scotland Yard is a police force.

New Scotland Yard is just the name of the building which is the headquarters of the Met. And the Met has been having some problems of its own lately.

So I think it is quite safe to disregard that whole site as they obviously have no clue what they're talking about

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

LAPD is one of the top 5 best police forces in the world according to this: http://www.listoffive.com/five-best-police-forces-in-the-world/

Yes but that also says that Scotland Yard is a police force.

New Scotland Yard is just the name of the building which is the headquarters of the Met. And the Met has been having some problems of its own lately.

So I think it is quite safe to disregard that whole site as they obviously have no clue what they're talking about

But hasn't Scotland Yard been used colloquially at times to refer to the Met in general? I think that's what they're referring to.

 Hordini wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

LAPD is one of the top 5 best police forces in the world according to this: http://www.listoffive.com/five-best-police-forces-in-the-world/

Yes but that also says that Scotland Yard is a police force.

New Scotland Yard is just the name of the building which is the headquarters of the Met. And the Met has been having some problems of its own lately.

So I think it is quite safe to disregard that whole site as they obviously have no clue what they're talking about

But hasn't Scotland Yard been used colloquially at times to refer to the Met in general? I think that's what they're referring to.

Well, there's also the fact that the whole site is just lists of "5 best X of all time" with no references or sources to back up their claims.

But I didn't think that it really needed any more proof

 Dreadwinter wrote:
I love this. Outside group gives criticism of our police force while a lot of the country is also criticizing them. Peoples response? "Stay out of our business!"

Despite the fact that we are having issues with Police Brutality and having an outside perspective has never been a bad thing. But you know, 'Murica!

Oh, that is not unique to America at all. Russia has exactly the same. Russians complain endlessly about every aspect of Russia, but woe to the foreigner who dares it to even say a little bit of criticism.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

LAPD is one of the top 5 best police forces in the world according to this: http://www.listoffive.com/five-best-police-forces-in-the-world/

Yes but that also says that Scotland Yard is a police force.

New Scotland Yard is just the name of the building which is the headquarters of the Met. And the Met has been having some problems of its own lately.

So I think it is quite safe to disregard that whole site as they obviously have no clue what they're talking about

But hasn't Scotland Yard been used colloquially at times to refer to the Met in general? I think that's what they're referring to.

Well, there's also the fact that the whole site is just lists of "5 best X of all time" with no references or sources to back up their claims.

But I didn't think that it really needed any more proof

You are right, but the opening US Is Evil Says Amnesty International article doesn't give any real sources either, nor do they compile a good list of what police forces do and do not follow these UN rules. Really, saying 'Police in all 50 states!' is itself indicative of very poorly done article. Do you know how many city/municipality, county and other local forces there are, let alone state and then Federal.

KilKrazy sure as heck provided no sources for his 'US Cops are just as bad as Iran, Russia, China, insert bad totalitarian gov't here' argument.

I did a little bit of looking while on a teleconference yesterday and even looking at the Amnesty International and UN pages there are NOT any real stats comparing police forces across the globe. They seem to pick on a handful of incidents (which in the US for example all happen in some locality) and use those incidents to condemn a nation's whole police force(s).

The UN document giving out the guidelines/standards has several things besides brutality/force escalation. Corruption is one. I've been to several countries and several places within those countries in Central and South America, the Caribbean, and a bunch of other places. US cops in the vey many places I've been in the US do not show the open corruption which is common in other places. Studies of US cops also tend to look at numbers of complaints against police. I am 100% sure many of the complaints are valid. With 100s of thousands of cops there are bound to be some crap bags and even decent cops who have a bad day and deserve a complaint made. But I am also 100% sure not all those complaints are valid, some are made to harass the cops and tie up resources. I've seen it in the Army. Some folks will make an EO complaint or initiate a congressional complaint because they don't like their boss/assignment/the fact they have to take a PT test or what ever. I've known defense attorneys (military and civilian) who encourage their clients to initiate complaints as a method of deflection. And it is a tactic that works well. So to use number of complaints and not number of substantiated complaints gives a statistic I have a hard time giving meaning to.