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Interesting review, Ratius. Thanks.

Los pollos hermanos wrote:I'll probably pick up a small force later on when the armies are all released just to store in case I want to have a one off game but im not going in to collect, it just doesn't have longevity for a table top game and thats my opinion on it.

Weeell... there are other options for your small force. Lion Rampant (40-60 models) is a new, fairly popular medieval game but already usable for fantasy, with a recent article in the Wargames: Soldiers and Strategy magazine with further suggestions and conversions for fantasy, and a fantasy sequel - Dragon Rampant - out later in the year. Brink of Battle uses even smaller forces (more 'gang' skirmish) and recently had a fantasy supplement released for it, and of course there's the redoubtable A Song of Blades and Heroes. Can't remember if Frostgrave has been released just yet, but in other forums I see a fair following already, if you like the idea of wizards and their bodyguards exploring a frozen city, Mordheim-style. Etc. etc.
I'm already sifting through my fantasy mini collection to see what I can put together and organise for the former two (pretty much everything, that's how the games are designed), and I'm stepping up expansion of my few high elf minis off ebay, even starting a small dark elf force. AoS will do wonders for my fantasy gaming.

Lord Corellia wrote:I saw the beginnings of a game in my local GW earlier this week and there was a LOT of "ok, this is how we'll do this. This is how we'll work around that" type of talk. The store manager was even getting involved and suggesting things, which leads me to believe that it may come to be a passable pick up game in that store but I highly doubt there will ever be anything sweeping and official for the ruleset as far as fixes go.

This is one of the big problems I have with it so far: it basically demands that players do the Nottingham studio's job and finish writing big chunks (most?) of it themselves. I keep hearing people say that the books and scenarios are coming and will turn it into something scintillating, and fair enough if they do, but at the mo it feels a bit like GRR Martin saying "Don't worry! They're coming! The dragons are coming!"

Redbad wrote:For those who like big battles, with ranked up models, give this a look.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655766.page
These are some house rules my group and I use.
so far it works well.

Give them a try

Thanks
austin

And on the other end of the scale from the response to Pollos: for those who like big battles with ranked-up models, there are already some established and playtested rule sets that you can slot any minis into, and could use some love. (One or two have dropped off that list in the meantime, but heck, another's popped up too.)

Interesting review, Ratius. Thanks.

No problemo.

Considering my rather large blunder forgetting about the turn dice off, for those of you who have played more games, how big a mechanic is this? Thinking about it some more, does it make that much a of a difference? Does it actually favour more reactionary, defensive armies?

I have played the starter set and actually had a lot of fun with it. Some rules I don't like is measuring weapon to weapon (we will likely do base to base).

I enjoyed being able to roll of for the turn, it bit me in the ass but had I won the roll it would of been glorious, I am stoked to see some of the scenerios.

I realize this is a whole new game and treat it as such, I have no intention of ever breaking out my old WoC army and likely will just sells it for whatever I can get and buy more Ininity or Age of Sigmar models.

 Ratius wrote:
Considering my rather large blunder forgetting about the turn dice off, for those of you who have played more games, how big a mechanic is this? Thinking about it some more, does it make that much a of a difference?

It's a pretty big deal, because it mixes things up with double turns - it's probably the big game changer in what is otherwise predictable Igo-Ugo. This will matter a lot more when objectives come into play in scenarios, compared to "close in and kill things".

Yes, was thinking that in terms of the double turns thing.
I'll definitely refight my game and see how it turns out with it in play.

Got it and the box is pretty good. I am going to be picking up some more undead for my army, but will be sticking to square bases so I can also play KoW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Considering my rather large blunder forgetting about the turn dice off, for those of you who have played more games, how big a mechanic is this? Thinking about it some more, does it make that much a of a difference?

It's a pretty big deal, because it mixes things up with double turns - it's probably the big game changer in what is otherwise predictable Igo-Ugo. This will matter a lot more when objectives come into play in scenarios, compared to "close in and kill things".

A lot like the old Epic turn mechanics.

I'll give it a try. Can't really judge it if I've not played it. There are some things I really dislike regardless of the game (measuring from the model, "beard rules") but it looks like I'll only really be playing with friends, using very small forces, so we'll probably just house-rule the stuff we don't like. Hoping for some proper campaign rules, and we talked about the method of using wounds as a makeshift points cost.

I saw the new models and terrain in person at WHW today and I think they look much better in real life than I expected. The Chaos stuff doesn't interest me (it didn't even before AoS, though), but I might get some of the Eternals for conversions if nothing else when they're released separately. I could use them for different systems as knights, golems etc, maybe even paint some up as statues to use as scenery or objectives.

If it turns out to be a poor game, well, at least I didn't spend money on the rules...and there are plenty of other games I can use fantasy minis in.

 Fezman wrote:
I'll give it a try. Can't really judge it if I've not played it. There are some things I really dislike regardless of the game (measuring from the model, "beard rules") but it looks like I'll only really be playing with friends, using very small forces, so we'll probably just house-rule the stuff we don't like. Hoping for some proper campaign rules, and we talked about the method of using wounds as a makeshift points cost.

I saw the new models and terrain in person at WHW today and I think they look much better in real life than I expected. The Chaos stuff doesn't interest me (it didn't even before AoS, though), but I might get some of the Eternals for conversions if nothing else when they're released separately. I could use them for different systems as knights, golems etc, maybe even paint some up as statues to use as scenery or objectives.

If it turns out to be a poor game, well, at least I didn't spend money on the rules...and there are plenty of other games I can use fantasy minis in.

The measure from model might actually work if we weren't so sued to measuring from base for every other game. I think that will become the norm, and I daresay in the next edition of AoS it will be changed.

The Beard Rules are just silly. I think they're fun to read; I don't think anyone will ask that they be played literally.

The models -- both the Sigmarites and the Chaos -- are stunning, in my opinion. They're much better than Isle of Blood or Dark Vengeance, or even Space Hulk, in my opinion. I am not entirely sure I've seen a collection of plastic models as good as the AoS box set before -- or at least, I can't think of them. The Choas models aren't my thing either, but I can appreciate how terrific the sculpts and production are. Alignment, mold lines, and all that kind of thing are exceptional as well.

The Prosecutors (angel guys) and Cat Dude are out of this world, to me. As separate models, I would have paid $100+ for just them without thinking about it twice. Those wings just rock. Some of the Chaos guys look like amazing sculpts, when you put them beside unpainted DV models.

 Talys wrote:

The Prosecutors (angel guys) and Cat Dude are out of this world, to me. As separate models, I would have paid $100+ for just them without thinking about it twice.

perhaps a bit much there.

 Talys wrote:

 Fezman wrote:
I'll give it a try. Can't really judge it if I've not played it. There are some things I really dislike regardless of the game (measuring from the model, "beard rules") but it looks like I'll only really be playing with friends, using very small forces, so we'll probably just house-rule the stuff we don't like. Hoping for some proper campaign rules, and we talked about the method of using wounds as a makeshift points cost.

I saw the new models and terrain in person at WHW today and I think they look much better in real life than I expected. The Chaos stuff doesn't interest me (it didn't even before AoS, though), but I might get some of the Eternals for conversions if nothing else when they're released separately. I could use them for different systems as knights, golems etc, maybe even paint some up as statues to use as scenery or objectives.

If it turns out to be a poor game, well, at least I didn't spend money on the rules...and there are plenty of other games I can use fantasy minis in.

The measure from model might actually work if we weren't so sued to measuring from base for every other game. I think that will become the norm, and I daresay in the next edition of AoS it will be changed.

The Beard Rules are just silly. I think they're fun to read; I don't think anyone will ask that they be played literally.

The models -- both the Sigmarites and the Chaos -- are stunning, in my opinion. They're much better than Isle of Blood or Dark Vengeance, or even Space Hulk, in my opinion. I am not entirely sure I've seen a collection of plastic models as good as the AoS box set before -- or at least, I can't think of them. The Choas models aren't my thing either, but I can appreciate how terrific the sculpts and production are. Alignment, mold lines, and all that kind of thing are exceptional as well.

The Prosecutors (angel guys) and Cat Dude are out of this world, to me. As separate models, I would have paid $100+ for just them without thinking about it twice. Those wings just rock. Some of the Chaos guys look like amazing sculpts, when you put them beside unpainted DV models.

Man, I really enjoy seeing a positive post like this right now

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
played AoS, moving 40k to Age of Abaddon is not a bad thing.

Oh I am totally with you on that. I am kind of nervous about it happening TBH because of how expensive it will be for me ... especially if it actually turns out to launch as a 30k product.

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:

 Talys wrote:

The Prosecutors (angel guys) and Cat Dude are out of this world, to me. As separate models, I would have paid $100+ for just them without thinking about it twice.

perhaps a bit much there.

Ah come on, people have been way over-the-top negative about AoS all week. Let the man have his joy.

_Tim?

A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away there live a Great Wizard.

The GW had many children conceived of his magic. His most beautiful, beloved of all who saw her, was the princess Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

WHFB's fame spread throughout the galaxy, until GW thought it would be good to bring out a companion for her, and he used his magic to create a prince, Warhammer 40K.

WH40K was vigorous, proud and successful. In time, his popularity came to surpass that of his beautiful sister WHFB, who fell into a pallid wasting illness, not helped at all by various quack remedies GW gave her.

GW was stricken with grief at the decline of WHFB and, fearing her death, he decided to preserve the best part of her for all time. Thinking it good, he caused WHFB and WH40K to fall in love with each other, and a child was born whom he named WHAOS.

But in the birthing of WHAOS, WHFB's last strength was spent and the princess died.

= = = = = =

Age Of Sigmar is the incestuous lovechild of WHFB and WH40K. It is naturally very similar to its parents, but has also inherited a number of unfortunate recessive genes that make the game less healthy that it could have been. Among these we see:

IGOUGO turn sequence
Movement rules out of 40K 6th, themselves derived from WHFB 8th.
The detailed Stat Line is almost the same as in the parent games, just changed around a bit in the way it is presented.
The clunky To Hit, To Wound, To Save combat mechanic has survived with minor changes that actually make it slightly more complex and time-consuming.
Universal Special Rules have re-appeared in the form of the Key Words.

To be sure, some rules have been lost in the simplification; the army list system has gone entirely, there are almost no tactical factors or terrain effects, and Psychology has been reduced.

Frankly I am less saddened by the lost of army lists than many people. I think the "list to win" approach to games is a bad one. However I do think some kind of balance system is enormously helpful for many different types of game situations, for veterans and beginners alike.

Overall these changes make the game a lot simpler but they also reduce the depth of tactics.

Some new areas that have arisen, such as Sudden Death, unfortunately are weak if not borderline unworkable, and give an impression of being tacked on without much consideration of the effects.

In short, AOS combines some of the worst aspects of its parents while losing some of the best of them. It is fairly clunky as a skirmish game and doesn't look like it will scale up well for larger battles.

In my opinion this is a very sadly wasted opportunity to completely redesign the game from the ground up.

That said, AOS certainly is playable, and even fun. It has the rules needed to move units around and fight with each other. It is simple to explain to a new gamer and anyone who has played WH before because the basic IGOOGU sequence and movement/combat rules are very easy to grasp.

It is also free, and GW to their credit have provided all the war scrolls necessary to use the old WHFB armies.

The models are awesome if you like their style, and will help the new box fly off the shelves.

GW must hope to sustain interest in the longer term with scenarios, campaign packs and new armies (or new models for old armies). Hopefully, advanced add-on rules will be published as well, to add back some of the stuff that has been taken out.

If not, I can't see many veteran players buying as much AOS as they do/did 40K or WHFB, because there is less long-term tactical interest in the game. I also can't see newcomers buying up huge armies, unless it is just for the collectibility of the models. The rules do not look like they will scale well, and while the box scenarios play OK with the boxed set of figures, once people have to make up games without any balance rules, things will tend to go wrong.


The TL;DR:

A simple, skirmish level derivative of WHFB/40K, combining some of the worst of both systems while losing some of the best. Simple, playable and fun for beginners but not likely to engage long term attention without a lot more new stuff coming out from GW.

This is garbage. Absolute utter horrid garbage. I just went to a GW and of course they won't allow any restrictions because that'd be house rules. So basically the absolute best way for balance they have is just what opponents agree on only restricted 'by your imagination'. The only thing you can do is maybe eyeball it and hope there's balance maybe.

If i ever play warhammer fantasy. Oh wait i'm sorry 'Age of Sigmar' it'll be at a FLGS and not at a GW and i'll make a point of only buying from a FLGS when i do.

You know GW could have made warhammer fantasy have 1/4 of the rules of 8th edition (25 pages of rules altogether in the main rulebook would be fine basically). Simplification is ok even having a simplified version of victory conditions, terrain, magic or points might have helped as would expanding into other outlets such as video games like 'total war: warhammer' as they seemed to be doing. Instead they have a game with a 12 year old minimum age restriction with rules humor only a 6-8 year old with ADD would love and would probably move on from after only a few games. The rules book is 4 pages long. The characteristics are simplified and only exist half of what they did (no initiative, toughness, strength, WS or BS). The game in 8th edition had 56 spells (7 for each rulebook lore) and various different factions had their own spells. The AoS rulebook has a grand total of 2 universal spells. They destroyed the lore and made a new one with space marines of sorts and that's probably the least bad thing they did.

Just to give you an idea of how bad this is not one fantasy player showed up for a battle today with Age of Sigmar. On it's release day in a GW that has sometimes been filled it probably had more 40k players in it today. Sure the AoS boxset sold a few copies (mostly to 40k players) but nobody played anything AoS with any of their fantasy models. Last week only one game was tried out for a test run between two brothers with AoS. The GW was emptier than it was last week and that was only pre-order day whereas this is release day. There was maybe 5 people at the store at any one point for most of the day and not one played a game. That is absolutely pathetic for a game release. At least one 40k player said he'd be furious if what happened to fantasy happened to 40k as well.

-----------

Anyway here are my options as i see them. Either i play 40k, i go to another store completely to play fantasy or just go with some vassal system and play with player made restrictions (i can talk about it as mods agreed we could) or switch to another game company's product completely like warmachine.

If i switch to another company's game or play in a different store i may buy used online so GW makes no money. I realize that might make them kill off the game but that might be better than to see it turned into this garbage.

If anybody wants we could also start up some sort of boycott on GW products. Just throw out a signature and promise not to buy GW products in any way that could net them money.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
This is garbage. Absolute utter horrid garbage. I just went to a GW and of course they won't allow any restrictions because that'd be house rules. So basically the absolute best way for balance they have is just what opponents agree on only restricted 'by your imagination'. The only thing you can do is maybe eyeball it and hope there's balance maybe.

If i ever play warhammer fantasy. Oh wait i'm sorry 'Age of Sigmar' it'll be at a FLGS and not at a GW and i'll make a point of only buying from a FLGS when i do.


Just to give you an idea of how bad this is not one fantasy player showed up for a battle today with Age of Sigmar. On it's release day in a GW that has sometimes been filled it probably had more 40k players in it today. Sure the AoS boxset sold a few copies (mostly to 40k players) but nobody played anything AoS with any of their fantasy models. Last week only one game was tried out for a test run between two brothers with AoS. The GW was emptier than it was last week and that was only pre-order day whereas this is release day. There was maybe 5 people at the store at any one point for most of the day and not one played a game. That is absolutely pathetic for a game release. At least one 40k player said he'd be furious if what happened to fantasy happened to 40k as well.

At my GW, plenty of fantasy players tried out AoS, and every single one said nothing but good things about it. It's easy to get into, pretty tactical despite the four pages of rules, and you can do custom scenarios easy as pie- you just need to create one with your opponent and that's it. Watched four guys have a three v one (chaos vs High Elves & Stormcast), where the chaos kept respawning and the Order team had to wait out six turns. Scenario made up on the spot.

Plus the models are very nice; some of the Stormcast models are only two-piece!

You should try it! You might like it.

The TL;DR:

A simple, skirmish level derivative of WHFB/40K, combining some of the worst of both systems while losing some of the best. Simple, playable and fun for beginners but not likely to engage long term attention without a lot more new stuff coming out from GW.

A not so simple as it seems game with nuances that are patently ignored - see multiple reviews of the game:

Spoiler:

Strategic VS Tactical elements:
I'll say this straight up, a lack of objectives or overall "goal" really hurts the game. Mine didn't bog down too much into a central mosh pit as I chose to move and attack other isolated units but I have seen several reps where it becomes just that. Its too one dimensional and frankly eliminates almost completely refused flanks, objective defence, using dedicated outflankers for obj captures, tactical focal points and even use of terrain features.
Afaik the new scenarios coming out will put some form of objective into them such as get X models off the board or kill the general or capture a point and this absolutely needs to be the case imo.
A few "whack em till dead style" games sure can be fun but on a long term basis, its definitely not going to keep my interest.
I await the new scenarios.

I feel a strategic element is lacking in the game so far. However tactical nuances do exist and for those claiming its just pewpew in a mosh are incorrect. Running skirmish lines, bublewrapping key units, shooting priority, hth target and turn priority, removal of casualties, stacking wounds or not on multi wound models all play a part in this as does taking cover and trying to get the best save possible (cover + magic shield) or simply staying out of LoS.

Combinations such as having your general use a command ability or inspiring presence can also have an affect on the game.

No, these arent earth shattering dynamics and experienced gamers will be well used to them, however, they are present and most certainly do make a difference.

Yeah well how long have you played fantasy for? The point being this alienated a lot of long time fantasy players. Without points or some roundabout idea of balance and preventing players from making list restrictions in their stores how the **** do they expect people to have a good game? There's a difference between having a simple game and a game which has no clue for ADD riddled 6-8 year olds that are absolutely hyper-active.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:

 Talys wrote:

The Prosecutors (angel guys) and Cat Dude are out of this world, to me. As separate models, I would have paid $100+ for just them without thinking about it twice.

perhaps a bit much there.

Ah come on, people have been way over-the-top negative about AoS all week. Let the man have his joy.

_Tim?

I think it's hard for people to take Talys at his word when he seems to have no upper limit to how much he'll pay for GW(?) miniatures. His gaming group is apparently the thing of Tom Kirby's dreams!

Wow, the whole "what did they do to WHFB" thing again?

That was never ever in debate -only relevant points is: Is AoS playable/fun/decent.

You dont think so? Cool. You arent alone.

But whacking on about WHFB has gotten so old, its bordering nonsense.

 Accolade wrote:
I think it's hard for people to take Talys at his word when he seems to have no upper limit to how much he'll pay for GW(?) miniatures. His gaming group is apparently the thing of Tom Kirby's dreams!

OTOH, I'm not paying another penny for Fantasy, but I still like how AoS has transformed Fantasy.

The AoS design philosophy works very well for me, and can easily be expanded to accommodate block infantry and bases, along with area terrain. Even "points", if that becomes a thing.

I'm sorry but there are mechanical blunders in the AoS rules that a company with 30 years of experience just plain should not be making.

I wholly understand and appreciate some of the themes running through the rules design, but come on. I am a 15+ year fan of GW, and met the AoS rules with sharp interest. I hated what they did to the Old World, but was really excited with the possibility of a ruleset that due to no need for complete dedication to memorize all the rules, could easily be slotted in amongst all the others I try to keep up with.

But then upon reading things like measuring from weapon tips, overhanging bases, and the like, I kept thinking, "....What? ". This game has tons of out-of-the box decisions that no other publisher would think to make, because they are not the "good" kind of lateral thinking.

And yet it's still vastly superior to the sack of gak that was 8th Edition...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
And yet it's still vastly superior to the sack of gak that was 8th Edition...

No just no. Not even close to as good as 8th.

I would absolutely love to play AoS but I fear the abuse I would have to endure from players that would otherwise be policed (at least a little) by a better rule system. I live 25 miles from the nearet LGS, so I need to play games where I am not wasting my time making the trip, but instead having fun.

The entire theory of AoS sounds fun, but the implementation is scary.

I constantly find myself reading things that get posted and thinking, "C'mon, GW! I was really interested in this!"

I continue to strongly believe we will see points cost system released for this game.

As and when that comes about, I will welcome the opportunity to try out AoS, until it possesses that ability I will not play it, I largely rely on pick up games with near strangers and the whole 'gentleman's agreement' notion GW seems fixated with, that we all belong to a small group of friends and that lots of working out just what you want to work or not work is done beforehand. I need something that will work for pick up and tourney gaming, this, as it stands, does not meet that criteria.

 Accolade wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:

 Talys wrote:

The Prosecutors (angel guys) and Cat Dude are out of this world, to me. As separate models, I would have paid $100+ for just them without thinking about it twice.

perhaps a bit much there.

Ah come on, people have been way over-the-top negative about AoS all week. Let the man have his joy.

_Tim?

I think it's hard for people to take Talys at his word when he seems to have no upper limit to how much he'll pay for GW(?) miniatures. His gaming group is apparently the thing of Tom Kirby's dreams!

i could easily see GW charging $60CDN each for a box of the Prosecutors and Battlecat...
i'd buy them...
luckily, we can all be happy that they are priced way lower in the starter set...

i've already made up my mind to buy Lantern Man & Baby Gryph when he comes out, and i don't even know what he costs yet...
doesn't matter to me...
i either want something, at which point the question becomes, "do i have that much cash in my pocket???", or i don't want something, at which point it wouldn't matter if the model only cost a dollar...

the new box of Sigmarites being the same price as a box of generic Termies, for bigger minis with more options, seems fair to me...
i mean, collecting miniatures is my hobby...
some people collect Lego...
would you judge someone because they are happy to pay $200 for a Lego Tie-Fighter???
five minis, for a quarter of that price, that i get to paint???
sounds fine to me...

cheers
jah

So I went to my local GW this morning looking to get a box of Assault Marines to work on. I totally forgot about the AOS stuff. They had the models set up on a table and I have to say they do look much cooler in real life. Still kind of on the fence on getting the boxed set though because I want to see about the rules. I have yet to read any of the stuff... only stuff I've heard about is the 'non-conventional' stuff and maybe the weird thing with overlapping bases.

Actually maybe I won't read into it... maybe its better not to open Pandora's Box huh? My wallet is already crying from building computers, comic books, and other stuff haha.

Played AoS today at the FLGS. Long story short, we had fun and enjoyed the game.

Roughly 1000 points of Ogres vs. 1500 points of Warriors of Chaos for the 8th edition folks out there.

I ran the Ogres with five total scrolls. A giant, butcher, mournfang x4, leadbelchers x4 and ironguts x4.

My opponent ran Chaos with a mounted chaos lord, blightkings x6, wrathmongers x5, chariots x3, skullcrushers of khorne x5 and a hellcannon.

We played the rules as written. No modifications, no attempts for balance in list building. We wanted to run the rules as presented to us with the only limiting factor our collections of painted miniatures. We ended playing on a 4x4 table because of the FLGS magic prerelease tournament. Each table quarter had two pieces of terrain and we ended rolling some very interesting/useful/game changing pieces of terrain.

After deployment we did some quick math and my opponent had 34% more models than me so I opted for Sudden Death Victory conditions and chose Seize Ground. I chose a wall just inside his territory. I wanted to use my Firebelly and Ogres x4 but I was literally running out of room and it was becoming obvious that my opponent was looking to use a lot of models. My opponent really wanted to use his hellcannon and had not deployed it by the time I stopped deploying. Hindsight being 20/20, I'm thinking it should have counted as four models instead of one model but the result is the same, he had a third more models than I did. (If my math is wrong here, please let me know.)

I won't go into a turn by turn battle report, i'll just post our biggest realizations and impressions of the game.

Rend and Multiple points of damage is huge: The Ironguts were ridiculous with the -1 Rend and 3 Damage.

Mortal wounds are huge: The Iron Fists on the Mournfang Cavalry finished off the Chariots when I rolled 4 sixes to save their attacks. The Hell Cannon did 10 mortal wounds to the Leadbelchers in the first turn.

3 inch bubble: This is pretty important regarding charging and piling into combat. Make sure you pay attention to how you move your models and where your place them.

Bases don't matter: We are on the fence about this. On one hand, it's so ingrained in us to measure from the base regardless of the shape or size. On the other hand, some of our models have some rather dramatic poses and it was nice to not have to smoosh them together to show they were locked in close combat.

Rolling Target Numbers: I've seen people complain that AoS is nothing but 4+, 4+, 4+, 3+, 5+ ad nauseum. As a former VC player that was pretty normal for my blocks of zombies and skeletons. Get stuck in early and just start tossing dice for the rest of the game until crumble damage finished me off. My opponent and I thought it made the game move much faster since we didn't have to roll for any heroes, lords or special rules separately for each unit.

Battle Shock: Losing whole models sucks. Be sure to use your inspiring presence.

Retreat: Neither one of us used this tactic but we both believe it's pretty important if used correctly. The chariots got stuck in on turn two with the Mournfang. The Blightkings joined the fight on turn 3 but my opponent didn't think to retreat to free up his chariots.

Choosing the order in which units attack in close combat: We really like this level of strategy. Do I attack with my full strength giant or my unit that has a few wounds left and might die first?

Long story long: This is a very different game. As such, we really liked it. Magic and close combat was quicker and easier to resolve. List building and balance might still be an issue depending on your opponent. Several of us were talking and we aren't sure how to run a campaign or tournament so that's still a sticking point for some people. It was fun for us to take the models we really wanted to use and not have to worry about points and percentages. Some of the guys really liked the new models while my opponent and I were happy to use our old stuff still. We were also happy to finish our first game in 2.5 hours.

Initially, we weren't sold on Age of Sigmar. Its so different from 8th edition that we didn't know what to expect. But we figured that since we've spent so much time and money on buying, building and painting our armies that we might as well try it. Da hell, the rules are free, why not? I'll be honest though, there are several people at my FLGS I'll hesitate to play a game with. They have a knack for breaking any system wide open and really sucking the fun out of any game from any company, not just GW.

 Accolade wrote:
I think it's hard for people to take Talys at his word when he seems to have no upper limit to how much he'll pay for GW(?) miniatures. His gaming group is apparently the thing of Tom Kirby's dreams!

If the mounted lord Celestant and the Prosecutors were produced for WMH, they would exceed $100. Borka is a $60 model and is the closest WMH comparable. I assure you the 3 prosecutors would be $20+ models, each.

So saying I would pay market value for them ($100) isn't really all that exciting. Of course, I'm happy that I don't have to! They just happen to be my favorite models in the box.

And sorry, yeah, I'm thinking Canadian dollars; the box set is $150 Canadian -- which is actually cheaper than $125 USD, as the currency exchange is 20%.

Talys, it is not correct to compare the higher prices of Warhamchine models with Warhammer Fantasy models, because you don't need as many of them.

Except that AOS doesn't need that many models.

And no Warmachine players actually limit themselves to a minimum force.