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 morganfreeman wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I kinda feel like folk focus on one aspect of Slaanesh and forget about the excess, perfection and sensory areas. I think there's a lot to be explored and expanded upon in areas of artists, obsessions and non sexy shenanigans... It'd be nice if the AoS future included a bit more of that.

No? I'll get my coat...

I think the main reason sex is what's focused on is.. it's the only real aesthetic Slaanesh has ever had.

I mean, how exactly do you model obsession? Perfection? Pride? Excess?

I donno about you, but the only one of those which really looks like something that can be effectively modelled would be the self indulgence thing, and that would probably be with obesity. Which starts to encroach on Nurgle's territory. I suppose that you could try to cast a "martial perfection / pride" vibe with a model's pose or gear, but that steps on Khorne's toes.

All Slaanesh really has that can be conveyed through visuals is sex and obsession with pain. At least when you get right down to the bare bones of it, imo.

Hang on... There are plenty of ways to show that someone is in some way unusual without them being naked or dressed as a gimp.

Poise, clothing, weapons, props - basing, now that even the single pose plastic kits have a little of that.

Obsession? The same way that Space marines ritualistically clean and maintain their armour - give them something they are clearly proud of.
They could be carrying strange trophies; jewels, clothing, pieces of enemies they thought were more beautiful than they were.
They could have armour decorated with baroque or beautiful visuals. Not just skulls skulls skulls, needles and screaming faces.

Perfection? Pride?
They could simply be moving in an elegant way - look at Sigvald from WHFB, apart from the fact his ass is on view, that figure has a dman impressive set of armor and way of holding himself.
There's a whole daemonette backstory devoted to dance. That could be touched on.
Sculptors I mentioned before - they don't have to be sculpting with marble. They could scrimshaw, use pieces of folk they defeated, create from death.

Excess?
They could be indulging a physical aspect other than sexuality - food, a drug pump, blindfolds or ear protection so that their other senses reap the benefit.
What's weird about consuming - maybe they're drinking from something ornate whilst fighting, or their weapon siphons blood, or maybe they're just plain cannibalistic.

I'm stopping here because it's starting to get a little bit darker than I'd intended, but what I'm essentially saying, is that there are so many areas to explore other than butts.

It is predictable, lazy and base to just focus on that, and I feel like GW almost plays into the expectation that the fans have now built up. We know that they're capable of more. I'd just like to see that.

(In case this came off as cranky, I just like thinking about visuals, I'm not actually cross at anything)

 Wyzilla wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
For those of us not interested in scanning through sigmarines what does the link say about Slaanesh?

Dude it's just five posts down. Stop being lazy. Laurie is a major Black Library editor, Slaanesh is fine and AOS just has a plot unlike 40k.

There's nothing on that entire page confirming or denying the removal of Slaanesh. It's just a bunch of nerd banter.

SETTLE DOWN. Slaanesh is still around... just, no one knows where...

It's almost like... like... a STORYLINE!!? laugh.gif

Next person to claim that the sky is falling gets their favourite HH character killed. I'm super serious. Even Horus.

That's just some guy saying something completely unsourced.

Alot of good ideas in Butterfly Commisar's post IMO.

I think Forgeworld did a pretty good job both rules-wise and model-wise capturing the "Martial Perfection" angle with Emperor's Children...their "Legion Tactics" leave a bit to be desired, but one thing I like is they honed in on rules and wargear to the advantage of blades and spears, over stuff like Power Fists and Thunderhammers.

 Vankraken wrote:

Couldn't Slaanesh's values be portrayed through things like gold and gems as excess of wealth and beauty (all the shinny things) as well as fancy weapons and excessive trophies. Might not stand out like a pair of bare breasts but its seems like a possible area to explore.

So.. Chaos Space Marines: Lil' Wayne edition? Tzeench (sp) would be better served with that kind of aesthetic, given he's about plots and schemes (as well as hope) to gain power. Politics and all that.. Whilst the self indulgence of Slaanesh is certainly something that would appeal to the wealthy, wealth is not his domain. The problem is conveying a character who's "beautiful" and obsessed with their own beauty, in miniature form. Simply loading Demons and CSM up with gold and gems is a terrible way to convey this.

 jasper76 wrote:

They could probably make models that look like tweakers. On top of the face, they could model powerpacks with all kinds of cannisters and tanks and tubes to look like a complicated drug delivery system (like their HQ, whatever he's called, and Apothecaries).

So turn them into Admech? We've already got shrivelled bodies covered with power backs, tubes, ribbing, and all that jazz. All you're talking about is painting the batteries in a way that they'd resemble vials of drugs.

You could do something like the Haemies from Dark Eldar.. But not only has that already been done, but it ties into what I said. "Obsession with pain". Whilst a Haemy model does a great job of convey a sadistic monster who rejoices in hitherto unknown depths of depravity, they also summon that whole pain thing to mind I mentioned.

 urbanknight4 wrote:


Or you could make them look like color blind crack fiends. Like, seriously. Didn't the Laer strive for perfection, breeding citizens with different characteristics to suit their place in society, a la Brave New World? And they certainly wore garish clothes. There was sensory overload, a disgusting fashion sense, and of course, sexy time.

How exactly do you model a color blind crack fiend marine? Scatter used and bent needles on the base?

I don't really disagree with any of you. These are all things that Slaanesh governs over. The point I'm trying to make by shooting these ideas down is pointing down how flipping difficult it is to make a model which conveys these things to someone who's got no idea what they're looking at.

@morgan freeman: I think you got your quotes mixed up there.

But I think Lucius the Eternal is a pretty cool crack fiend model. Not sure about the color-blind part.

And maybe you're right...maybe all that it takes to make a Skitarii, Admech, or whatever look like a tweeker is a different paint job. I think a tweaked out looking face would help, though. And there are plenty of them in the various Space Marine kits to begin with, conversion-wise.

 jasper76 wrote:
@morgan freeman: I think you got your quotes mixed up there.

But I think Lucius the Eternal is a pretty cool crack fiend model. Not sure about the color-blind part.

And maybe you're right...maybe all that it takes to make a Skitarii, Admech, or whatever look like a tweeker is a different paint job. I think a tweaked out looking face would help, though. And there are plenty of them in the various Space Marine kits to begin with, conversion-wise.

I really like Lucius' model, I'm a huge fan. But it doesn't really ring.. Slaanesh, very much? Just about the only thing which seems to suggest it to me is the way his mouth and tongue are mutated, though even then because it just seems kind of.. Sexually repulsive. If you painted him up in Khornate colors he'd sit just fine as a World Eater's champion. He could also fit in amongst the Undivided crowd if painted that way.

He kind of highlights the problem I'm trying to explain. That GW themselves haven't really captured a slaanesh aesthetic outside of sex and bondage gear. I'd say that Slaanesh is the scariest god by a country mile, and probably the most interesting fluff wise as well. But when it comes to making miniatures which represent his followers, basically all you've got is boobs, ball gags, and whips.

 morganfreeman wrote:
I don't really disagree with any of you. These are all things that Slaanesh governs over. The point I'm trying to make by shooting these ideas down is pointing down how flipping difficult it is to make a model which conveys these things to someone who's got no idea what they're looking at.

But but... I just gave you a shopping list of visually identifiable ways to put those across. It made me feel soiled.

And really, if we're talking "No idea what we're looking at"...


This doesn't put across pleasure, sex or self indulgence. If you showed that to me cold, I'd quite likely think it was something to do with being underwater.

It has iconography (the double genders and symbols) and corruption through mutation, but it doesn't give any other real message of what Slaanesh is about.

It is hard to convey, but it's not impossible. There's a massive history of visual queues and art to tap into, especially within the 40K aesthetic.

Obsession?

Martial Perfection?

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
But but... I just gave you a shopping list of visually identifiable ways to put those across. It made me feel soiled.

And really, if we're talking "No idea what we're looking at"...

It is hard to convey, but it's not impossible. There's a massive history of visual queues and art to tap into, especially within the 40K aesthetic.

I didn't notice your post, sorry. Nothing personal.

So far as your points go, I agree. Infact Jasper's pictures on right on the money... The only problem is that those aren't really Chaos Marines, at least not visually. They're just space marines. At a glance they just look like loyalists with flare / caught in a really interesting pose.

I mean, that works. But it's.. Very subtle. If I didn't know much / anything about the heresy (but played 40k) and saw those, I'd think they were just neat looking loyalists.

 morganfreeman wrote:

So far as your points go, I agree. Infact Jasper's pictures on right on the money... The only problem is that those aren't really Chaos Marines, at least not visually. They're just space marines. At a glance they just look like loyalists with flare / caught in a really interesting pose.

I mean, that works. But it's.. Very subtle. If I didn't know much / anything about the heresy (but played 40k) and saw those, I'd think they were just neat looking loyalists.

Those are indeed loyalist, or at least "just-on-the-verge-of-going-chaos", models from FW Horus Heresy line (Emperor's Children, or "Pre-Noise Marines") and the dude is their model for Fulgrim, the Legion Primarch. You probably know all that. I do agree that they are not dramatically Chaotic in any way, but I appreciate the subtlety.

 jasper76 wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:

So far as your points go, I agree. Infact Jasper's pictures on right on the money... The only problem is that those aren't really Chaos Marines, at least not visually. They're just space marines. At a glance they just look like loyalists with flare / caught in a really interesting pose.

I mean, that works. But it's.. Very subtle. If I didn't know much / anything about the heresy (but played 40k) and saw those, I'd think they were just neat looking loyalists.

Those are indeed loyalist, or at least "just-on-the-verge-of-going-chaos", models from FW Horus Heresy line (Emperor's Children, or "Pre-Noise Marines" and the dude is their model for Fulgrim, the Legion Primarch. You probably know all that. I do agree that they are not dramatically Chaotic in any way, but I appreciate the subtlety.

>_> Yes. I know about the Heresy, and I understand what they are. The subtlety, for them, is alright because they're "just on the verge" as you put it. They shouldn't have hundreds to thousands of years of corruption and debauchery under their belts.

The issue I was pointing out was with current Chaos marines who have been that way for a very long time.

Right, I honestly am having a bit of trouble following whether people are talking about Daemons, or Emperor's Children, or MoS Marines, or what...

It's occurred to me more than once that GW is kind of competing against itself with Dark Eldar, Slaneesh Daemons, and the Slaneesh side of CSM. If I were considering those choices, I'd bag it all and go with Emperor's Children because the paint-scheme is more to my taste...but if I was after what in my mind is the Slaneesh aesthetic, I'd be all over Dark Eldar. They have very emotive models.

 j31c3n wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
For those of us not interested in scanning through sigmarines what does the link say about Slaanesh?

Dude it's just five posts down. Stop being lazy. Laurie is a major Black Library editor, Slaanesh is fine and AOS just has a plot unlike 40k.

There's nothing on that entire page confirming or denying the removal of Slaanesh. It's just a bunch of nerd banter.

SETTLE DOWN. Slaanesh is still around... just, no one knows where...

It's almost like... like... a STORYLINE!!? laugh.gif

Next person to claim that the sky is falling gets their favourite HH character killed. I'm super serious. Even Horus.

That's just some guy saying something completely unsourced.

That guy is one of the major editors for the Black Library.

 jasper76 wrote:
Right, I honestly am having a bit of trouble following whether people are talking about Daemons, or Emperor's Children, or MoS Marines, or what...

It's occurred to me more than once that GW is kind of competing against itself with Dark Eldar, Slaneesh Daemons, and the Slaneesh side of CSM. If I were considering those choices, I'd bag it all and go with Emperor's Children because the paint-scheme is more to my taste...but if I was after what in my mind is the Slaneesh aesthetic, I'd be all over Dark Eldar. They have very emotive models.

This is a good point, and something I probably should have mentioned.

To me, Dark Eldar are a good way of getting across Slaanesh. Their models naturally incorporate sex, pain (self inflicted), torture, killing, ect ect. They've got a lot of the stuff showing on the models, and the fluff quickly describes the rest.

Agreed with the people here stating they are very ugly models, which is never a good thing if your company is in the business of selling models as Game Workshop loves to remind us they are.

Personally, I would be a little disappointed if they removed Slaanesh instead of looking at other possibilities, such as updating the models if the whole 'PG-13' angle is really what is driving them. While Papa Nurgle wins the 'most interesting Chaos God' award for me, the actual affection he feels for his followers is fascinating in this setting and the love interest with that one Elder goddess is almost beautiful as it is horrifying, a god that was literally born from an entire races psychic lust is also pretty damned interesting as well. When you add a 'hate-hate' relationship into the mix, literally driving the Elder to find ways to protect their very souls from being consumed by hir... that is lore being created right there.

Also, I love the idea of Tau being pulled away from 'the greater good' by a Chaos God....
Which one is best at getting sentient beings to put their own personal sensations above the well-being of others?

 morganfreeman wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Right, I honestly am having a bit of trouble following whether people are talking about Daemons, or Emperor's Children, or MoS Marines, or what...

It's occurred to me more than once that GW is kind of competing against itself with Dark Eldar, Slaneesh Daemons, and the Slaneesh side of CSM. If I were considering those choices, I'd bag it all and go with Emperor's Children because the paint-scheme is more to my taste...but if I was after what in my mind is the Slaneesh aesthetic, I'd be all over Dark Eldar. They have very emotive models.

This is a good point, and something I probably should have mentioned.

To me, Dark Eldar are a good way of getting across Slaanesh. Their models naturally incorporate sex, pain (self inflicted), torture, killing, ect ect. They've got a lot of the stuff showing on the models, and the fluff quickly describes the rest.

Slaanesh was born out of the excess of the Eldar so it's really that Slaanesh and its worshipped are in imitation of the Dark Eldar.

For what it's worth, GW has never known how to represent Slaanesh on the table. Once the sexy sculpts were a no go, the new ones just look like generic harpies without wings. "Beautiful, beguiling and monstrous" is hard to encapsulate if your market won't let you go Kingdom Death.

Same thing with rules, sometimes it's leadership related, sometimes it's initiative, sometimes it's control (old Lash), sometimes it's anti-psyker cacophony. They never know what to do with Slaanesh. Leadership manipulation would be most thematic, but mechanically useless on the table, so they keep making up random stuff.

They could go full-blown Hellraiser with the theme, but Dark Eldar kind of have that locked down with Haemonculi.

Tzeench has somewhat of a similar problem (how do you sculpt the incomprehensible and ever changing), but the changelings and flamers aren't bad efforts, and the rules are more straight-forward to write. That's why Tzeench gets more facetime than his deviant brother/sister.

Neither compare to Khorne or Nurgle. Nurgle especially has a very easy theme to apply with undeath/decay. Khorne should be easy too, but some of the designs have gone too far and jumped the shark.

Though not 40k, I do think that Sigvald's model (that's the Slaaneshi champion in Fantasy/AoS, right?) is a decent attempt at capturing vanity. Which is a nonsexual aspect of Slaanesh. One that with a little tweaking, the likes of such models as the Sanguinary Guard and Dante would be able to capture quite easily.

Slaanesh isn't going anywhere in 40k, IMHO.

We shall see!

I think more sex would be cool in 40k in general, but for Slaanesh I'd rather they have a mix of sex and hard drugs/trippy stuff for their soldiers. Like, turrets or something that look like the Geonosian sonic guns. Kamikaze hedonists, since for most of them death is the final pleasure. And maybe something imitating Harlequins? I dunno if that exists already, but some of the Deamonettes dance pretty well, I hear.

You could paint armies in motley to mimic Harlies and other Eldar units.

The main problem with the depiction of Slaanesh is the player-base, not the studio. There's all kinds of non-sexual Slaaneshi characters in various books, doing stuff like rendering the emotions of captured slaves into drugs and the like, attiring themselves in all kinds of flashy get-up.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

It is predictable, lazy and base to just focus on that, and I feel like GW almost plays into the expectation that the fans have now built up. We know that they're capable of more. I'd just like to see that.

Sadly at this stage I don't really believe that they are capable anymore. The Rogue Trader books and other early elements were full of imagination and insight, twisted thought and cool concepts. These days the fluff and story is all just retreads that have been white washed. When they create new for chaos we get the Crimson Slaughter who are kind of silly in their extreme of having to slaughter everything they see to stop the voices in their heads. There is no imagination there, nothing really original or interesting even. I don't believe GW has the ability to improve chaos and take it where it really should go. The writers now just a lacking in what I think they need to do so.

Oh and thanks for your examples was planning a similar post using Sigvald as an example of partial pride and precision and then got to your post before I dropped mine in.

As an Eldar player, I'm pleased that Slaanesh is going to be removed.

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

As an Eldar player, I'm pleased that Slaanesh is going to be removed.

So you're TFG who wants to see the armies of numerous people squatted with the hundreds of dollars they've invested in them wasted because "muh faction stronk"?

Nevermind that Slaanesh is not being fething removed people.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

As an Eldar player, I'm pleased that Slaanesh is going to be removed.

So you're TFG who wants to see the armies of numerous people squatted with the hundreds of dollars they've invested in them wasted because "muh faction stronk"?

Nevermind that Slaanesh is not being fething removed people.

/wooooooooosh

I agree Slaanesh shouldn't be removed, it would be a huge change for the players and overall fluff. Maybe just change his ways. Like literally everyone here has suggested, make better models for his troops. We can't gave sexy stuff anymore, so let's focus on drugs, sensory overload, and color. Maybe dancing and such. He's a very interesting god (the least interesting is Khorne. Sorry guys, but I get my daily fix of rage from Kratos) and deserves a better aesthetic. I mean, it can't be that hard to emulate the Dark Eldar. Those dudes already look like demonic junkies.

No! Slaanesh is my favorite!

I think Slaanesh could go the direction of self mutilation and body disfigurement and modification... To be clear This wouldn't be mutations but just more like self flaying, hooks and stretched flesh, the grafting on of the things that don't belong. What I mean is that it doesn't have to do explicitly be a gratification thing. Excess without explicit sexual connotations.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

As an Eldar player, I'm pleased that Slaanesh is going to be removed.

So you're TFG who wants to see the armies of numerous people squatted with the hundreds of dollars they've invested in them wasted because "muh faction stronk"?

Nevermind that Slaanesh is not being fething removed people.

Calm down. No need to get so agaitated. All I'm saying is that it if it does come to pass, it'll be beneficial to the 'lore' of my army.
GW will most likely allow Slaanesh models, but either as remnants or be used to represent this new god. I was only referring to if Slannesh itself/herself/himself gets captured/killed.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think Slaanesh could go the direction of self mutilation and body disfigurement and modification... To be clear This wouldn't be mutations but just more like self flaying, hooks and stretched flesh, the grafting on of the things that don't belong. What I mean is that it doesn't have to do explicitly be a gratification thing. Excess without explicit sexual connotations.

Thats a good idea. Slaanesh is a kind of vague god, he is the lord of excess and pleasure, but then again, there are some things he provides that have nothing to do with pleasure. Just as people come to him for entertainment and perfection, they could come to fulfill their idea of beauty or whatever, hence the uh... unnatural modifications.