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 Savageconvoy wrote:
I for one would. I'd take a cheap paperback any day.
I just want the layout to actually make sense and not require flipping from middle to back multiple times because someone wanted to stuff it full of pictures right between rule sections.

It might just be me, but does anyone actually collect these? Like they care about having outdated rules for older editions?
I know some people still play with the old books and rules, but I can't understand why anyone would collect them.

There was a time between 2th ed and 5Th where i would buy every codex when the new version was available, first because of the Fluff, and second to know my ennemy, but it was when codexes costed like 20-25$, now they cost 45$, i download the PDF version somewhere shady for free and thats it...

 Elric of Grans wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Why do anything when you can make the players fix it for you.

If only there were a universally accepted 'fixed' version of the game everyone could play by!

I really REALLY wish this were possible, but with the amount of infighting and rules lawyering that people do I don't think it'd be doable. (not to mention the diehard fans and purests who would refuse to acknowledge anything but GW official word.
Such potential. So sad...

 skoffs wrote:

 Elric of Grans wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Why do anything when you can make the players fix it for you.

If only there were a universally accepted 'fixed' version of the game everyone could play by!

I really REALLY wish this were possible, but with the amount of infighting and rules lawyering that people do I don't think it'd be doable. (not to mention the diehard fans and purests who would refuse to acknowledge anything but GW official word.
Such potential. So sad...

I took that to mean, if only the game developers had actually done their job.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 Elric of Grans wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Why do anything when you can make the players fix it for you.

If only there were a universally accepted 'fixed' version of the game everyone could play by!

I really REALLY wish this were possible, but with the amount of infighting and rules lawyering that people do I don't think it'd be doable. (not to mention the diehard fans and purests who would refuse to acknowledge anything but GW official word.
Such potential. So sad...

I took that to mean, if only the game developers had actually done their job.

Yep its all very sad.

But that doesn't mean as a community you couldn't fix it.
Pick a Tourny pack or make your own fix packs.

It should be up to the community to shepherded what "they" want. its what GW wants you to do and while its incredibly lazy on there part doesn't mean its impossible.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I for one would. I'd take a cheap paperback any day.
I just want the layout to actually make sense and not require flipping from middle to back multiple times because someone wanted to stuff it full of pictures right between rule sections.

It might just be me, but does anyone actually collect these? Like they care about having outdated rules for older editions?
I know some people still play with the old books and rules, but I can't understand why anyone would collect them.

There was a time between 2th ed and 5Th where i would buy every codex when the new version was available, first because of the Fluff, and second to know my ennemy, but it was when codexes costed like 20-25$, now they cost 45$, i download the PDF version somewhere shady for free and thats it...

Exactly the same for me. $20-$25 a couple times a year was also manageable, whereas $45 every other month really isn't.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I for one would. I'd take a cheap paperback any day.
I just want the layout to actually make sense and not require flipping from middle to back multiple times because someone wanted to stuff it full of pictures right between rule sections.

It might just be me, but does anyone actually collect these? Like they care about having outdated rules for older editions?
I know some people still play with the old books and rules, but I can't understand why anyone would collect them.

There was a time between 2th ed and 5Th where i would buy every codex when the new version was available, first because of the Fluff, and second to know my ennemy, but it was when codexes costed like 20-25$, now they cost 45$, i download the PDF version somewhere shady for free and thats it...

Exactly the same for me. $20-$25 a couple times a year was also manageable, whereas $45 every other month really isn't.

$45??? Where do you get your dexes from in Canada? I buy mine from my FLGS as it is a great gaming store (lots of tables) so I want to support it - but that means paying the $60 - 70 depending on dex. Back in 4th I bought dexes at this store for around $20-25 but the prices are just crazy now. Even back then I only bought a dex for the armies I had. I cannot imagine why anyone would collect them - sure some nice artwork/pictures but overall the product is of poor quality.

 Ventus wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I for one would. I'd take a cheap paperback any day.
I just want the layout to actually make sense and not require flipping from middle to back multiple times because someone wanted to stuff it full of pictures right between rule sections.

It might just be me, but does anyone actually collect these? Like they care about having outdated rules for older editions?
I know some people still play with the old books and rules, but I can't understand why anyone would collect them.

There was a time between 2th ed and 5Th where i would buy every codex when the new version was available, first because of the Fluff, and second to know my ennemy, but it was when codexes costed like 20-25$, now they cost 45$, i download the PDF version somewhere shady for free and thats it...

Exactly the same for me. $20-$25 a couple times a year was also manageable, whereas $45 every other month really isn't.

$45??? Where do you get your dexes from in Canada? I buy mine from my FLGS as it is a great gaming store (lots of tables) so I want to support it - but that means paying the $60 - 70 depending on dex. Back in 4th I bought dexes at this store for around $20-25 but the prices are just crazy now. Even back then I only bought a dex for the armies I had. I cannot imagine why anyone would collect them - sure some nice artwork/pictures but overall the product is of poor quality.

I was converting into American for our mathematically challenged neighbors.

As for why I'd collect them. I used to be a top level competitive player, and to do that you need to know your opponent's codex better than they do. You cannot realistically do that without owning it. Again, at only $40-$75 a year, it wasn't that bad just for the fluff and artwork beside the obvious competitive edge.

With the books going up in both price and release rate, and the competitive scene dying a fiery death after 6th edition and the "November to remember" well....I have't bought a rule book since.....I honestly can't remember? Maybe 6th edition rulebook?

Not just for a competitive edge, but it really helps speed up the game when you don't need to ask about every piece of wargear, every special rule, every unit, and so on.

If someone handed me a Tau or Eldar list I could breeze through it in a bit and understand their army with no questions.

If someone handed me a Nid list then I'd need them to point out what each unit actually is and what all the rules mean and so on.

I commented on it before, how the game can be more a labor of book keeping now. Back in 6th you could easily make a list using 6 different books or more. Now with the addition of even more books for things that feel more like add ons than whole armies it is getting to the point where you could face an army you didn't even know existed let alone the rules for.

Beer and pretzels

Yeah, the game at this point is really becoming increasingly like some of the madness you run into with D&D, where a party of 5 characters may have classes, abiltiies, feats, equipment, and the like drawn from two dozen books and half a dozen Dragon magazine supplements and nobody can keep track of anything.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, the game at this point is really becoming increasingly like some of the madness you run into with D&D, where a party of 5 characters may have classes, abiltiies, feats, equipment, and the like drawn from two dozen books and half a dozen Dragon magazine supplements and nobody can keep track of anything.

As a longtime DnD player I can safely say that 40K has past that line a long time ago.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, the game at this point is really becoming increasingly like some of the madness you run into with D&D, where a party of 5 characters may have classes, abiltiies, feats, equipment, and the like drawn from two dozen books and half a dozen Dragon magazine supplements and nobody can keep track of anything.

Yeah, except the people who wrote DnD ostensibly cared about balance.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, the game at this point is really becoming increasingly like some of the madness you run into with D&D, where a party of 5 characters may have classes, abiltiies, feats, equipment, and the like drawn from two dozen books and half a dozen Dragon magazine supplements and nobody can keep track of anything.

Big difference: the GM can always have NPCs with even MOAR feats, equipment, etc. I always tell my players this: do you really want to put your cheese build skills to test against mine? And I have unlimited resources to go with it.

Martel732 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, the game at this point is really becoming increasingly like some of the madness you run into with D&D, where a party of 5 characters may have classes, abiltiies, feats, equipment, and the like drawn from two dozen books and half a dozen Dragon magazine supplements and nobody can keep track of anything.

Big difference: the GM can always have NPCs with even MOAR feats, equipment, etc. I always tell my players this: do you really want to put your cheese build skills to test against mine? And I have unlimited resources to go with it.

Aye, that and the GM can always say "you can only use books A, B, and C, lets leave books D-Z for another adventure", which is much harder to do in 40k for a number of reasons.

Prime of them being the fact that saying that someone can use X, is the same as ordering someone to buy more models. Even in a one vs one situation that would mean buying huge collections with more, one would have to buy most models in the entire range to even get a single.

Maybe GW should sell a $30 bottle of whiteout called "Liquid Errata".

Captyn_Bob wrote:
So anyone going to put those money where their mouth is and refuse to buy gw products until faq support returns? It's the only way they'll listen.

Couldn't care less about the FAQs. I stopped giving them serious amounts of money shortly before they released 7th edition. For a miniatures company that only has rules as a supplement to their minis they certainly do rewrite and expect their customers to buy yet another $60-$90 rulebook pretty darn often, and then rewrite the codex books the same way. Their prices are getting ridiculous. Their written products clearly are not edited , tested or vetted in anyway before release except for how many extra minis they can make people buy and they care less and less as they go along that some armies for the game are left painfully behind while others get newer and better updates over them. They have done all they can to convince me to stop giving them my money so I am happily obliging them now. Only thing that will make me spend more money again is if they actually come up with a solid and usable CSM book again to save me having to write it myself. Such a rewrite is on my list of things to do, so their chance to get my money will begin fading once I start the process. Of course given how crazy my life is these days I am about as likely to get my CSM rewrite done soon as I am to get all my minis painted.

I would much hold my cash off waiting for better written, edited and balanced books to be written than do so for FAQs. The need for FAQs just shows their continued contempt and laziness for their players to do this work up front BEFORE they release a book instead of fixing it after. Heck that stupid HQ problem with Ravenwing in the new DA book was seen by every person who bought the book the FIRST TIME THEY READ IT, but GW could find it before they released it? Totally dumb. So no rewarding them for FAQs is pointless. Hold off payments until they start releasing decent products that don't need FAQs.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

JinxDragon wrote:

In any case, I was referring another technological advances that they regularly fail to embrace over the last decade: Computers. Their Business Model is written with the misconception that the best 'social experience' possible is directly with another individual in a physical location, even though the vast majority of social interactions are now done through mobile devices and computers. It even contains a line stating their games are not played 'with a screen,' and somehow believe this will lead to increased sales and 'makes good business sense.' I, for one, can not fathom how cutting yourself out of the largest technological advancement in humanity since agriculture is in any way 'good business sense' and wonder if their Business Model was last updated in the 1990's because of this mentality!

I play miniature wargames specifically because they DON'T have a screen. I want to game with my friends and enjoy their company as well as the game. I have groups that I get together with to do mini gaming, another for roleplaying and still another incarnation to sit around and play board and card games together. Sorry, but online gaming through headsets and so called social interaction through mobile devices is anti-social interaction not social interaction. Such interactions are turning generations of people into social idiots. People who sit near each other and text each other when they could be actually conversing face to face, or a group of people who are all near each other who are too busy 'socially interacting' with strangers through a device and not talking to each other at all, are not benefiting from social interaction. I work in IT, and I stare at multiple computer screens all day long. The last thing I want to do is turn all of my hobbies into that as well. I ignore ereaders for the same reason. I am quite happy with a real book in my hand and almost always have such an item on my person all the time.

Sure GW could actually work to setup decent computer based games. Dawn of War was a good one, and I am very much looking forward to Total War: Warhammer too, even though WHFB has been disposed of by GW. Ultimately, though, why would GW completely shift to computer media? They make miniatures and rules for those miniatures. Dumping all of that in favor of computer games would be even more obnoxious than what they did to WHFB with AoS. There would be nothing wrong to a side by side product line to cover both bases. As much as I enjoy playing Dawn of War from time to time to get a 40k fix, the experience is nothing compared to actually playing 40k with friends.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, the game at this point is really becoming increasingly like some of the madness you run into with D&D, where a party of 5 characters may have classes, abiltiies, feats, equipment, and the like drawn from two dozen books and half a dozen Dragon magazine supplements and nobody can keep track of anything.

Yeah, except the people who wrote DnD ostensibly cared about balance.

Two words to prove that incorrect:

Frenzied. Berserker.

Also:

Mystic. Theurge.

Awww.. Frenzied berserker was one of my favorite NPC templates! It worked really well on Mariliths.

Backfire wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
As a Necron player, it's frustrating not having ANY current official resource available to address rules conflicts.
I remember reading somewhere that FW were going to be releasing an update to the Dark Harvest to bring it in line with the current edition rules and Necron codex, but obviously that must have been false.

What happened?
There was a time fairly recently when GW were releasing new FAQs pretty frequently.
Why did they suddenly dry up?
Why did they even start just straight up removing FAQs from the errata page?

If you recall, GW used to have pretty weak Erratas/FAQs up until 2010 (or was it 2011) when they suddenly became much better, much more comprehensive so that unofficial FAQs prevalent until then disappeared as they were no longer needed.
Now recently, the FAQs became much smaller, and then disappeared altogether.

It is not hard to deduce what happened: they hired a new guy to handle their FAQs/Erratas, he did a bang-up job, then he was fired.

Why? Most probably, some consultant hired to see where GW could make further cuts looked at him and said: "Why do you have one guy hired solely to make erratas? That is a huge waste. Also, such long documents fixing your errors make it look like your products are poorly done. Get rid of him."

Pure speculation, but that is how I imagine it happened.

That sounds pretty plausible. Except the part about GW hiring a business consultant. That's just ludicrous.

I doubt that they would have hired someone specifically to do errata. When it's been mentioned at all, the general scuttlebutt has had the responsibility go back and forth over the years between someone from the studio and someone from customer service.

So rather than someone being hired and fired, it's more likely that with staff cutbacks and the current focus on pushing out as much new material as humanly possible that there's just no time allowed for it.

Skriker,
Not calling for a complete shift to a digital format, but why is ignoring the virtual market entirely a good business plan?

As for your opinion on social interaction, I won't fault you for your opinion on the matter as we are clearly two individuals who have been shaped by very different up-bringing. My personal experience involves growing up in a rural town of less then 1,000, easily 200KM away from the nearest 'city,' filled with people who have never heard of D&D let alone Warhammer 40k. Thus computers where a vital part in communicating with others of a like-minded individuals, and eventually led to me travelling the world to meet said people face-to-face. All I am asking is that you keep in mind, regardless of how we feel about the matter, is that every generation has greater access to these methods of global communication and dismissing them outright as being 'anti-social' may not be the best thing.

In any case, it seems to be really stupid for a company looking for long term survivability to completely ignore an exponentially growing market place....
Computer Games can milk quite a lot of money from people through micro-transactions, Game Workshop could benefit from exploring this possibility as well.

 Skriker wrote:
snip.

I can, to a point, understand your desire to limit time in front of a screen (though we are conversing using a digital forum right now), but why avoid ebooks? There are few practical differences between text printed with ink and such emulated with plastic beads. Readers aren't by any means social media portals, after all. If I must be frank, this initiative gives the appearance of one who pettily rejects technology out of reflex, rather than evaluating its qualities.

JinxDragon wrote:
Skriker,
Not calling for a complete shift to a digital format, but why is ignoring the virtual market entirely a good business plan?

As for your opinion on social interaction, I won't fault you for your opinion on the matter as we are clearly two individuals who have been shaped by very different up-bringing. My personal experience involves growing up in a rural town of less then 1,000, easily 200KM away from the nearest 'city,' filled with people who have never heard of D&D let alone Warhammer 40k. Thus computers where a vital part in communicating with others of a like-minded individuals, and eventually led to me travelling the world to meet said people face-to-face. All I am asking is that you keep in mind, regardless of how we feel about the matter, is that every generation has greater access to these methods of global communication and dismissing them outright as being 'anti-social' may not be the best thing.

In any case, it seems to be really stupid for a company looking for long term survivability to completely ignore an exponentially growing market place....
Computer Games can milk quite a lot of money from people through micro-transactions, Game Workshop could benefit from exploring this possibility as well.

After 30 years in IT, I am fully immersed in the tech curve and take full advantage of what it has to offer for communication. Yep it lets me keep in touch with people around the world, but in years online starting with simple local BBSs and following through all the way to today online communication has taken a turn for the worse. Too many people are ready to assume the absolute worst about any that is said to them, they treat others horribly and say things most rational people would never say face to face to anyone. Add in everyone nose down in their mobile devices more and more every day and yeah I do feel that no small amount of anti-social aspects have moved into the equation. Of course this is not really the place for such a discussion, so my apologies for starting the discussion down that path in the first place. I am glad you were able to find like minded souls through such media and get out and meet them in the real world too. That is what it is all about after all. Also I love that I can look in my old GW Red, Blue and Green catalogs from back in the day and with the right search keys can usually find any of those minis that I decide that I would like to have on a place like ebay. Yeah it does have its good points.

That said, it is not strange at all that a company that makes miniatures and wargaming rules for them, and is now run by people who are doing their best to squeeze whatever they can out of the company financially as they can would not jump into that other marketplace. They have no experience and no real knowledge there other than licensing their property to others to make games. It is a market they have zero in house resources for and in the current management climate are not going to suddenly start spending money to move into a completely new market like that. The sad, simple fact is that GW is NOT looking for real long term survivability. They are looking for cash lining their investors and leadership's pockets in the short term as long as it is financially viable to achieve that. As such they license out their properties and hope to just feel the joy of money rolling in and have little apparent thought to whether those games are any good at all. Yes that outlook is stupid for them to have, but that doesn't change the fact that not being stupid is not a pre-requisite for being a CEO somewhere apparently. I've been playing 40k since Rogue Trader and it is disheartening to see the game I've loved for so long turned into what it is today because the goal is quicker cash, and not a good product anymore, but it is what it is.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 asorel wrote:

I can, to a point, understand your desire to limit time in front of a screen (though we are conversing using a digital forum right now), but why avoid ebooks? There are few practical differences between text printed with ink and such emulated with plastic beads. Readers aren't by any means social media portals, after all. If I must be frank, this initiative gives the appearance of one who pettily rejects technology out of reflex, rather than evaluating its qualities.

Feel free to draw whatever conclusions you like. I spend my days immersed in technology. My home is also full of it, but I prefer to not have to rely on it for everything. Such is life and my choice. I didn't say I avoid ebooks; I said I ignore ereaders like the nook or the kindle. That is a big difference. I have pdfs of rulebooks for all the various games I play (rpg and wargames) on my tablet for convenience of transport and on my multiple laptops and my desktop as well for reference when I choose. It used to suck when I would have to actually carry a suitcase to cart all of my Shadowrun rulebooks to a game session that I was running, so I do that because it is helpful. When I am reading a novel an e-reader gives me nothing that an actual book doesn't, except for the possibility for the battery to fail. In that aspect I don't need to cart a whole library with me to read the book I am reading so I don't. Just because my conclusion from my own evaluation is different than yours doesn't mean I haven't evaluated the item. I use technology when I want to and when it is helpful, not just because it is available.

At a loss for how to respond to your comment of how we are conversing using a digital forum right now without insulting you. All I can think to say is that it is hard to take part in an online community without actually being online. Just the fact that I am here should make it somewhat clear that I am not some tech-phobe who makes their fingers into a cross when technology comes near them, but apparently not.

 Skriker wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Skriker,
Not calling for a complete shift to a digital format, but why is ignoring the virtual market entirely a good business plan?

As for your opinion on social interaction, I won't fault you for your opinion on the matter as we are clearly two individuals who have been shaped by very different up-bringing. My personal experience involves growing up in a rural town of less then 1,000, easily 200KM away from the nearest 'city,' filled with people who have never heard of D&D let alone Warhammer 40k. Thus computers where a vital part in communicating with others of a like-minded individuals, and eventually led to me travelling the world to meet said people face-to-face. All I am asking is that you keep in mind, regardless of how we feel about the matter, is that every generation has greater access to these methods of global communication and dismissing them outright as being 'anti-social' may not be the best thing.

In any case, it seems to be really stupid for a company looking for long term survivability to completely ignore an exponentially growing market place....
Computer Games can milk quite a lot of money from people through micro-transactions, Game Workshop could benefit from exploring this possibility as well.

After 30 years in IT, I am fully immersed in the tech curve and take full advantage of what it has to offer for communication. Yep it lets me keep in touch with people around the world, but in years online starting with simple local BBSs and following through all the way to today online communication has taken a turn for the worse. Too many people are ready to assume the absolute worst about any that is said to them, they treat others horribly and say things most rational people would never say face to face to anyone. Add in everyone nose down in their mobile devices more and more every day and yeah I do feel that no small amount of anti-social aspects have moved into the equation. Of course this is not really the place for such a discussion, so my apologies for starting the discussion down that path in the first place. I am glad you were able to find like minded souls through such media and get out and meet them in the real world too. That is what it is all about after all. Also I love that I can look in my old GW Red, Blue and Green catalogs from back in the day and with the right search keys can usually find any of those minis that I decide that I would like to have on a place like ebay. Yeah it does have its good points.

That said, it is not strange at all that a company that makes miniatures and wargaming rules for them, and is now run by people who are doing their best to squeeze whatever they can out of the company financially as they can would not jump into that other marketplace. They have no experience and no real knowledge there other than licensing their property to others to make games. It is a market they have zero in house resources for and in the current management climate are not going to suddenly start spending money to move into a completely new market like that. The sad, simple fact is that GW is NOT looking for real long term survivability. They are looking for cash lining their investors and leadership's pockets in the short term as long as it is financially viable to achieve that. As such they license out their properties and hope to just feel the joy of money rolling in and have little apparent thought to whether those games are any good at all. Yes that outlook is stupid for them to have, but that doesn't change the fact that not being stupid is not a pre-requisite for being a CEO somewhere apparently. I've been playing 40k since Rogue Trader and it is disheartening to see the game I've loved for so long turned into what it is today because the goal is quicker cash, and not a good product anymore, but it is what it is.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 asorel wrote:

I can, to a point, understand your desire to limit time in front of a screen (though we are conversing using a digital forum right now), but why avoid ebooks? There are few practical differences between text printed with ink and such emulated with plastic beads. Readers aren't by any means social media portals, after all. If I must be frank, this initiative gives the appearance of one who pettily rejects technology out of reflex, rather than evaluating its qualities.

Feel free to draw whatever conclusions you like. I spend my days immersed in technology. My home is also full of it, but I prefer to not have to rely on it for everything. Such is life and my choice. I didn't say I avoid ebooks; I said I ignore ereaders like the nook or the kindle. That is a big difference. I have pdfs of rulebooks for all the various games I play (rpg and wargames) on my tablet for convenience of transport and on my multiple laptops and my desktop as well for reference when I choose. It used to suck when I would have to actually carry a suitcase to cart all of my Shadowrun rulebooks to a game session that I was running, so I do that because it is helpful. When I am reading a novel an e-reader gives me nothing that an actual book doesn't, except for the possibility for the battery to fail. In that aspect I don't need to cart a whole library with me to read the book I am reading so I don't. Just because my conclusion from my own evaluation is different than yours doesn't mean I haven't evaluated the item. I use technology when I want to and when it is helpful, not just because it is available.

At a loss for how to respond to your comment of how we are conversing using a digital forum right now without insulting you. All I can think to say is that it is hard to take part in an online community without actually being online. Just the fact that I am here should make it somewhat clear that I am not some tech-phobe who makes their fingers into a cross when technology comes near them, but apparently not.

The statement enclosed in parentheses was not meant as a serious rebuttal. I would have hoped that that had been obvious, as I have no desire to pepper my text with emoticons in order to convey such.

Mentioning BBS's took me back to some very unusual places, I forgot those things even existed but I can hear the sounds of dial up clearly even to this day!
Oh man... we are dating ourselves, aren't we?

You are correct about Game Workshop not looking for long term survivability, even though they boost they will be doing this "forever" in their childishly-written mission statements. Sadly, very few modern companies are willing to look past the next quarter these days and Game Workshop is one of those companies. As long as their next quarter is in the black they assume every single one after it will also be profitable, so no need to adapt to the changing market place until it may be too late to recover. That is likely what is bothering me the most, I don't want to see Warhammer 40k die a slow death that will come from using the licenses as a 'quick cash grab' and keeping hold of an obsolete business model.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Massawyrm wrote:
Anyone who thinks Hasbro would do better than GW knows absolutely nothing about how badly Hasbro hamstrung WotC behind the scenes and permanently crippled the D&D brand.

The current edition of D&D has been on multiple best sellers lists for a year. It is widely described as one of the best versions of the game available. So...there's that. Under Hasbro, Magic the Gathering has boomed into its highest sales ever.

When thinking about Hasbro taking over, don't look at D&D. Look at DDM (Dungeons and Dragons Miniatures) the Star Wars Miniature game they made for what would happen with 40K. Personally, I'd think it would make things worse.

I would trust FFG more to handle 40K, as I think they would do a very good job if they rewrote the rules from the ground up.

 Stormonu wrote:
When thinking about Hasbro taking over, don't look at D&D. Look at ... the Star Wars Miniature game they made for what would happen with 40K. .

A clear and concise, tournament-friendly ruleset that for a time outsold D&D, that was supported with regular FAQ updates and had dedicated experts answering rules questions on the company's official forums...?

Yeah, that would suck.

 asorel wrote:


The statement enclosed in parentheses was not meant as a serious rebuttal. I would have hoped that that had been obvious, as I have no desire to pepper my text with emoticons in order to convey such.

Then your intent is now clear. Hard to tell in this medium which is why I didn't want to say something rude about it and stated my response as I did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JinxDragon wrote:
Mentioning BBS's took me back to some very unusual places, I forgot those things even existed but I can hear the sounds of dial up clearly even to this day!
Oh man... we are dating ourselves, aren't we?

You are correct about Game Workshop not looking for long term survivability, even though they boost they will be doing this "forever" in their childishly-written mission statements. Sadly, very few modern companies are willing to look past the next quarter these days and Game Workshop is one of those companies. As long as their next quarter is in the black they assume every single one after it will also be profitable, so no need to adapt to the changing market place until it may be too late to recover. That is likely what is bothering me the most, I don't want to see Warhammer 40k die a slow death that will come from using the licenses as a 'quick cash grab' and keeping hold of an obsolete business model.

Wow we are on the same page much more than our initial comments to each other would have indicated. Still laugh every time I hear a skrillex piece and can only think of modem connections.

Sadly despite our fandom we can't make those who own the rights to our fandom not do totally stupid things with it. Still cranky with Disney for basically blowing away 31 years of back story to make their lives easier making movies. The only reason I still play despite the silly business practices, the skyrocketing prices and the rules getting more askew with each new incarnation is that I just love the background of the 40k universe and the forces within it. I am getting over the eventual slow death aspects by realizing that I will still have that if GW closes its doors tomorrow, as I will still have all my armies to use as I see fit and I still have friends who like those same aspects as well, so can keep enjoying the hobby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

A clear and concise, tournament-friendly ruleset that for a time outsold D&D, that was supported with regular FAQ updates and had dedicated experts answering rules questions on the company's official forums...?

Yeah, that would suck.

Yeah exactly. Hahahahaha.

I keep coming back to Battlefront when thinking about this stuff and the fact that I have 2 rulebooks that they gave out free stickers of rules fixes for that you put right over the fixed rules in the book so the fix was right there where it needed to be and looked like it had always been there. Just the fact that they first listened to their player base that kept complaining about this issue over and over and then acted on it, with the input from their player base to make it right are awesome, but to go that extra step to provide those stickers to put into the book where the issue first appeared AND to fix it again in a book that had just been released while they sorted the fix, just sticks with me. I know they have been getting a bad name over the whole Dust miniatures distribution fiasco, but they have definitely done some classy things as a game company. There used to be a time when Games Workshop actually listened to its players. They offered fixes to things and even had Tim Huckleberry back in the day hanging out in rec.arts.games.warhammer in usenet answering questions and trying to help people get around rules issues and get back to having fun. Even back then their rules were full of holes, but at least they had some public appearance of caring about fixing those things.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Maybe GW should sell a $30 bottle of whiteout called "Liquid Errata".

I completely agree, they would make thousands off it!