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Made in ca
Grumpy Longbeard





Canada

I posted something similar on another topic, but it should be said here (seeing as this thread has been necro'ed)

Considering that you must choose your army before the game (first page under "The Armies") you can only summon from the units you chose and are not on the table for whatever reason (like sudden death shenanigans); you cannot resummon dead units indefinitely, because that is effectively having an infinite amount of those units (the exception being that you can agree to infinite models with your opponent or choose more units than you have models for).
Remember that some undead and most daemon units have abilities (usually requiring a banner) that add and/or return models to those units, so that fluff is simulated already.

Doesn't sound good enough? Summoning casts on less than 7 most of the time (with the exception of monsters). Getting an extra unit of lesser daemons for the same casting value as mystic shield does not make sense in terms of game design (or just in terms of not being TFG). Getting reserves that risk giving your opponent more than 100% of your models slain does make sense as an easy spell (that has a similar difficulty to the Chaos Lord bringing in units on a 4+).


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

I don't think that anyone is really disputing that endlessly summoning the same models isn't a fun or friendly idea. However, the wording of the rules is so vague that it impossible to actually demonstrate with 100% certainty that you cannot do this. As I have said before, summoning rules do not dictate where models come from. Whilst I wouldn't do it myself, I couldn't actually tell someone else that they can't, and neither can anyone else. 'That's against the rules' is not the same as 'that's a dick move'. Kriswall and I have disagreed on this earlier in the thread, but I agree with him on the fact that, although people doing it can (rightly imo) argue for it, if they are abusing it they won't get many games. It'll police itself.

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Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran





 JamesY wrote:
'That's against the rules' is not the same as 'that's a dick move'. ..... It'll police itself.


I don't see this as a rules thing - without some very tortuous reading, you can summon whatever you like, and bring back units indefinitely.

And that is fine - IF it is taken into account when setting your armies up. If you have one Necromancer and a bunch of skeletons and zombies, endless summoning is not going to be an issue. It is exactly what that army should be doing.

If, on the other hand, you have Nagash and a bunch of Necromancers, deploy less models (a lot less models!) at the start of the game. Hell, have Nagash and his necros be the only thing on the table at the start. The Battleplan you are using may also have a powerful effect on what will work.

What I am saying is, the summoning rules in and of themselves are not broken, they simply... are. It comes down to the players to sort out how they want to approach them, ranging from 'no summoning at all' to 'summon what you like but reflect that in your starting force'.

It is just another component of some armies, one that should be treated in the same way as some of the more powerful units.

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Made in us
[DCM]
Tzeentch's Fan Girl






Southern New Hampshire

I think the problem people are having with summoning is that they feel it destroys all sense of balance in Age of Sigmar. Which would be fine... if GW intended for Age of Sigmar to have balance. They've made it pretty clear that this isn't about creating a competitive system. It's all about getting together and having fun.

I think it's pretty clear that the rules as stated are to allow you to summon anything you have models for that aren't currently on the table, whether they've been killed previously or not. To think otherwise is to be looking for something that just isn't there. This whole debate is a philosophical failure to understand what the game is about.

THAT SAID, GW has also been pretty clear to give players the ability house rule damn near whatever they want and play the game how they want. Players who have been around for a while are looking for some sort of balance (which again, GW gave up on and just isn't there), and so they're looking for a way to balance summoning. Naturally, everyone has a different opinion on this, and it should be discussed with your opponent before hand or decided by a TO in the case of a larger event.

But again, I think GW's intent (and even the wording) is pretty clear here: If you have the models and they're not on the table, you can summon them to your heart's content. To think otherwise is to be looking in the wrong place.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/17 15:50:27


She/Her

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