Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
If I don't respond to your post, I've probably got you blocked for being insufferable.

Ad hominem, and still not replying to the point I made.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not saying that you're leftist. Just saying that some people who complain about your posts usually praise posts exactly like yours coming from the far left camp on the forums.

Such as who? I'm sure you can back these allegations up, you're not an ignorant leftist after all.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Such as who? I'm sure you can back these allegations up, you're not an ignorant leftist after all.

Sure could, but not gonna trigger some mods. It's pretty obvious who it is, though, if you look at all the "get to 4 pages then closed" threads. We do have users who are very open on their political view.

Well, whilst the fact he managed to injure some people is crap, I'm glad he was stopped at least. Shame he couldn't be brought to trial, but what can you do. Does anyone know whether the contents of the 'manifesto' have been released? Or is it still presently the case that we know he wrote some stuff, but don't know what that stuff is?

Sigvatr wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Such as who? I'm sure you can back these allegations up, you're not an ignorant leftist after all.

Sure could, but not gonna trigger some mods. It's pretty obvious who it is, though, if you look at all the "get to 4 pages then closed" threads. We do have users who are very open on their political view.

'Its okay for us to troll, because people on your side do it as well! I mean, I'm not going to actually supply any names or evidence, but they totally troll all the time, trust me.'

If you're trying to defend Peter Wiggins' "troll[ing] on occasion", then maybe try not immediately dismissing it as the same as discussing with leftists?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Trudeaue is a sexist, so that's that. Why was the thread about him locked again?

And that makes it suddenly okay to wish cancer upon him how, exactly? Or is this regarding the 'but leftists do it' argument?

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
I like to use leftist argumentative tactics in order to underline the hypocrisy of their stances.

But none of those tactics are used by people *on this forum*. Yes, 'leftists' use that sort of argument, but unless you're using it against someone on the forum that actually uses it, then it's tantamount to punching a straw man.

 Goliath wrote:

If you're trying to defend Peter Wiggins' "troll[ing] on occasion", then maybe try not immediately dismissing it as the same as discussing with leftists?

You will most certainly point me to the exact point where I said that I defend the trolling, won't you?

You will all most certainly return to the topic, won't you?

In an attempt to get us back on track;
Still no details of his manifesto. Am I naive in hoping that the media have turned the corner, and are no longer publishing details of the attacker's views? There have been no details of the attacker's philosophy published in the wake of the Colorado Springs incident either

They gave a fairly detailed description of what it said, so unless there is a change from that there isn't really much to report I would think.

The guy probably doesn't have a manifesto. The overall appearance is of a disaffected youth, alienated for whatever reasons valid or not from his peer group at university, getting a bad idea to take revenge and then acting it out.

This so far is the same as Columbine and any number of mass murders or attempted mass attacks perpetrated mostly but not entirely by young to middle-aged white men. Most attacks of this type are unconnected with politics.

Well, looks like all the folks that got stabbed should be out of the hospital this week. Apparently the construction worker straight up kicked the guy in the head before he got cut.

The chancellor finally sent out a little 2 paragraph meaningless blurb. I still think its bizarre that the campus will have a rally to "disarm the UC PD" but when something like this happens we can't even be bothered to rally in support of our sister campus. /sigh

Oh well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
In an attempt to get us back on track;
Still no details of his manifesto. Am I naive in hoping that the media have turned the corner, and are no longer publishing details of the attacker's views? There have been no details of the attacker's philosophy published in the wake of the Colorado Springs incident either

From what I've read on police statements, it was a vitriolic "they don't like me blah blah" with some references to allah in the same vein as a reasonably faithful christian would reference jesus.

I don't think they will publish the full text, and rightly so. After doing some hard thinking on it, I believe that the best way to move forward on these kinds of things is to support the victims and give praise where its due (like those kids on the Paris train and the construction worker in this case). Frankly, I wish they hadn't published the attackers name or photo and just incinerated the body....but that's not the world we live in. <shrug>

motyak wrote:You will all most certainly return to the topic, won't you?

That was almost poetic


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Well, looks like all the folks that got stabbed should be out of the hospital this week. Apparently the construction worker straight up kicked the guy in the head before he got cut.

The chancellor finally sent out a little 2 paragraph meaningless blurb. I still think its bizarre that the campus will have a rally to "disarm the UC PD" but when something like this happens we can't even be bothered to rally in support of our sister campus. /sigh

Oh well.

I believe that that's something called "human nature". Humans are naturally idiots about some things. Violence just happens to be one of them. That and cheese. People kill for that gak.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
In an attempt to get us back on track;
Still no details of his manifesto. Am I naive in hoping that the media have turned the corner, and are no longer publishing details of the attacker's views? There have been no details of the attacker's philosophy published in the wake of the Colorado Springs incident either

From what I've read on police statements, it was a vitriolic "they don't like me blah blah" with some references to allah in the same vein as a reasonably faithful christian would reference jesus.

I don't think they will publish the full text, and rightly so. After doing some hard thinking on it, I believe that the best way to move forward on these kinds of things is to support the victims and give praise where its due (like those kids on the Paris train and the construction worker in this case). Frankly, I wish they hadn't published the attackers name or photo and just incinerated the body....but that's not the world we live in. <shrug>

I doubt that any non-lunatic cop wants praise for killing someone; that seems like something that most people just want to put behind them.

Kid threw a violent tantrum and used select reading material to inspire him to act. Dicing the word "terrorist" to fit him. I see the label "Insurgent" applying

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Please explain how school attacks are NOT terrorism. Then we can address your question.

Because it's just a murder which happened to occur at a school. It's not some kind of grand statement against the system or an attempt to accomplish a political goal, it's just a guy who was angry about an argument. It's like saying it's terrorism if a teacher shoots their boss because they get fired.

The guy had a 2 page written manifesto. Manifesto = value based rationalization, including condemnation of that which oppresses. I guess we're not going there though, yah?

Spoiler:

Here's a hypothetical.

Given an identical scenario with the added detail that he'd been yelling "down with the system", would it count as terrorism in your mind? What if he were yelling "In the name of Christ I cleanse you!" What if he were yelling "Death to America!" Etc etc. Identical behavior though. Would it be terrorism then?


For me the defining point of "terrorism" is not the political inclination of the attacker, but the manner in which they plan out and enact their violence. Do they purposefully plan things in a logical manner? Do they intentionally choose civilian targets who are going about their daily routines? Do they plan an escalation of force in order to cause more extensive harm (IE stealing a cop's gun to shoot more people)? This dude did all that. Good thing he was a total moron, otherwise he might have actually killed people.

He is just feeling slighted or is an anarchist.
Your definition of the word isn't the definition for the rest of the world.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Frankly, I wish they hadn't published the attackers name or photo and just incinerated the body....but that's not the world we live in. <shrug>

You remember just a second ago (in fact, in the same post you said the above!) how you were so annoyed that the university had not gone all out to publish the details straight away and that there were no mass demonstrations etc about this?

Yeah... do you even know what you want? Or are you just rallying against things you don't like without really thinking about what you don't like and why?

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Frankly, I wish they hadn't published the attackers name or photo and just incinerated the body....but that's not the world we live in. <shrug>

You remember just a second ago (in fact, in the same post you said the above!) how you were so annoyed that the university had not gone all out to publish the details straight away and that there were no mass demonstrations etc about this?

Yeah... do you even know what you want? Or are you just rallying against things you don't like without really thinking about what you don't like and why?

What's next, starting threads about this guy so that he can have his 2 days of attention on a forum dedicated to grown men pushing tiny plastic miniatures around while going pewpew?

When will people stop giving this guy attention?

 d-usa wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Frankly, I wish they hadn't published the attackers name or photo and just incinerated the body....but that's not the world we live in. <shrug>

You remember just a second ago (in fact, in the same post you said the above!) how you were so annoyed that the university had not gone all out to publish the details straight away and that there were no mass demonstrations etc about this?

Yeah... do you even know what you want? Or are you just rallying against things you don't like without really thinking about what you don't like and why?

What's next, starting threads about this guy so that he can have his 2 days of attention on a forum dedicated to grown men pushing tiny plastic miniatures around while going pewpew?

When will people stop giving this guy attention?

When people will stop having fun talking to him.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The guy probably doesn't have a manifesto. The overall appearance is of a disaffected youth, alienated for whatever reasons valid or not from his peer group at university, getting a bad idea to take revenge and then acting it out.

This so far is the same as Columbine and any number of mass murders or attempted mass attacks perpetrated mostly but not entirely by young to middle-aged white men. Most attacks of this type are unconnected with politics.

I think the moral of the story is, pick your college study groups very carefully...

has there been anything on why they threw him out of the study group? I've not really heard of that kind of thing. Usually you just have meetings and forget to invite them.

Just guessing, from what his flatmate said he seems to have been a bit anti-social and didn't get on well with others.

Following from that, if you are in a study group with someone who doesn't pull their weight, or is unpleasant to deal with or generally useless in some way, you want to get rid of them because it wastes your time and effort.

Alternatively, perhaps everyone else in the study group was a racist knobhead, but I think that's a bit unlikely.