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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You have not read the novels.

Don't you hate it when you go see a film and someone tells you that you need to "read the book" to fully comprehend the story and fill in the plot holes?

Well same issue here. I've given the fluff that goes with the gaming material a look. It's blandness on paper, almost as bland as the models themselves.

 Korinov wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You have not read the novels.

Don't you hate it when you go see a film and someone tells you that you need to "read the book" to fully comprehend the story and fill in the plot holes?

Well same issue here. I've given the fluff that goes with the gaming material a look. It's blandness on paper, almost as bland as the models themselves.

Precisely. If the freely available fluff isn't enough to intrigue me, why should I spend my time and money on novels?

I have a "games backlog" as long as my arm of systems I want to get into someday, based solely on promo materials, website copy, individual model descriptions, etc. AoS is not one of them.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You have not read the novels.

Some how I missed this quote. Now that I have seen it, I have to ask you mean the novels with the great reviews praising how great the writing is? NOT! I think 50 Shades of Grey are better books from what Black Library is putting out.

Apparently Rey from the force awakens isn't Mary sue because of something in the book but that's irrelevant to me as its not in the movie.

If someone doesn't like space wolves you don't tell them to go read a long list of books so they get it.

Even if we did read the books we may come out hating them.

Let's face it if you want a great read you don't go to BL.

 Guildsman wrote:

 Korinov wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You have not read the novels.

Don't you hate it when you go see a film and someone tells you that you need to "read the book" to fully comprehend the story and fill in the plot holes?

Well same issue here. I've given the fluff that goes with the gaming material a look. It's blandness on paper, almost as bland as the models themselves.

Precisely. If the freely available fluff isn't enough to intrigue me, why should I spend my time and money on novels?

I have a "games backlog" as long as my arm of systems I want to get into someday, based solely on promo materials, website copy, individual model descriptions, etc. AoS is not one of them.

If you read what's readily available and decide you aren't interested that's fine. What you guys are doing is watching a trailer for a movie then saying the movie is bad. Your impression is perfectly valid but your opinion on the quality of the movie as a whole has no legitimacy because you have not actually viewed the content in question. If you made statements like "from what I saw they seem pretty bland, so I don't like them" then you would be on solid ground. You didn't. You made sweeping statements about the quality of the fluff in its entirety. I can understand people's opinions but if you don't have anything to back it up go start your own thread for unsubstantiated bashing.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:

 Korinov wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You have not read the novels.

Don't you hate it when you go see a film and someone tells you that you need to "read the book" to fully comprehend the story and fill in the plot holes?

Well same issue here. I've given the fluff that goes with the gaming material a look. It's blandness on paper, almost as bland as the models themselves.

Precisely. If the freely available fluff isn't enough to intrigue me, why should I spend my time and money on novels?

I have a "games backlog" as long as my arm of systems I want to get into someday, based solely on promo materials, website copy, individual model descriptions, etc. AoS is not one of them.

If you read what's readily available and decide you aren't interested that's fine. What you guys are doing is watching a trailer for a movie then saying the movie is bad. Your impression is perfectly valid but your opinion on the quality of the movie as a whole has no legitimacy because you have not actually viewed the content in question. If you made statements like "from what I saw they seem pretty bland, so I don't like them" then you would be on solid ground. You didn't. You made sweeping statements about the quality of the fluff in its entirety. I can understand people's opinions but if you don't have anything to back it up go start your own thread for unsubstantiated bashing.

If people need to go out of their way to find the lore that makes a faction interesting then that is a colossal failure on the company's part. Any good business should know that first impressions are everything.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If people need to go out of their way to find the lore that makes a faction interesting then that is a colossal failure on the company's part. Any good business should know that first impressions are everything.

A decent chunk of this lore is in the main realmgate wars rulebooks, which are the 'core' line of books so to speak. But I more or less agree with you; the price of these books is very high and the novels are out-of-the-way of the main product line; GW's pricing and structure has made even the basic lore difficult to access. However, that still doesn't justify drawing overall conclusions without any knowledge beyond the free previews. If Korinov, Guildsman, etc. Have actually read the fluff in the realmgate wars rulebooks then I will happily retract my statement.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
What you guys are doing is watching a trailer for a movie then saying the movie is bad. Your impression is perfectly valid but your opinion on the quality of the movie as a whole has no legitimacy because you have not actually viewed the content in question. If you made statements like "from what I saw they seem pretty bland, so I don't like them" then you would be on solid ground. You didn't. You made sweeping statements about the quality of the fluff in its entirety. I can understand people's opinions but if you don't have anything to back it up go start your own thread for unsubstantiated bashing.

No, as someone already said, what you are saying is WE DID watch the movie, we didn't like the movie and now you are telling us to read the book. In other words I watched the movie or I bought the starter box set. Now I find it meh, and you are telling me now I need to read the book. I shouldn't HAVE to read the book. GW failed in getting me into their new lore. GW failed getting me excited. GW failed because I perceive that the SIGMARARINES, not Stormcast eternals are exciting and I should be excited for them.

No, it's not up to me or anyone else to like the Stormcast Eternals, it's up to GW. If GW thinks they can entice me to buy more of their products, books as you say, then GW has failed again.

So no, I haven't watched the trailer. I bought the fracking box set. What was in there, was garbage and didn't entice me at all, and because of that, I will not buy the books.

So please again, explain to us how we have watched the trailer. How about we have a different opinion than you and instead of telling us we are wrong, just state your opinion instead of trying to prove some of us wrong.

Anyone interested in the books' fluff but doesn't want to buy them should catch some of the AoS podcasts out there, namely Heelan Hammer, Garage Hammer and Mortal Realms. Others like Lost Lighthouse, The Black Sun, Face Hammer etc. go into the fluff sometimes but the first three all dedicate whole shows to each book.

I do wish there was some consequence to them dying. I don't mind that they get resurrected but I wish there was more fluff as to how difficult a process it is.

Like Space Marine initiation. Otherwise it seems like they just instantly respawn them.

Was at my not so Local Friendly Gaming Store today. They had some Stormcasts painted up in silver, with white shoulder pads and looked good.

So I will try one like that and see how it goes. Such a huge improvement over the gold in my opinion. If these were done like this from the beginning, I would have been more interested in them that is for sure.

Not sure if Gold is a Blood Angel thing or not and that could be why it was such a turn off, or maybe it was Blood Angel players saying they would make great BA marines.

 KiloFiX wrote:
I do wish there was some consequence to them dying. I don't mind that they get resurrected but I wish there was more fluff as to how difficult a process it is.

Like Space Marine initiation. Otherwise it seems like they just instantly respawn them.

Oh there is a price. It is more prevalent in the novels of course as it allows the fluff to focus on the personal level rather than campaign level events but it can be seen in Thostos Bladestorm after the events of the Quest for Ghal Maraz.

Essentially, each time the Stormcasts die they are literally losing part of their souls. For each one it is different, it could be memories of their first life or even their personality.

A good portion of the novels so far have focused on the Stormcast POVs coming to grips with their past lives and their new lives. Especially in cases like Vandus or Adamantine who face against foes they failed to stop as humans. Others such as Gardus it deals more with Chaos directly tormenting them with the ghosts of their past almost literally.

For me that is far more interesting and compelling than say the Space Marines who do not dwell on their "past lives" at all (except for Ragnar constantly).

Davor wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
What you guys are doing is watching a trailer for a movie then saying the movie is bad. Your impression is perfectly valid but your opinion on the quality of the movie as a whole has no legitimacy because you have not actually viewed the content in question. If you made statements like "from what I saw they seem pretty bland, so I don't like them" then you would be on solid ground. You didn't. You made sweeping statements about the quality of the fluff in its entirety. I can understand people's opinions but if you don't have anything to back it up go start your own thread for unsubstantiated bashing.

No, as someone already said, what you are saying is WE DID watch the movie, we didn't like the movie and now you are telling us to read the book. In other words I watched the movie or I bought the starter box set. Now I find it meh, and you are telling me now I need to read the book. I shouldn't HAVE to read the book. GW failed in getting me into their new lore. GW failed getting me excited. GW failed because I perceive that the SIGMARARINES, not Stormcast eternals are exciting and I should be excited for them.

No, it's not up to me or anyone else to like the Stormcast Eternals, it's up to GW. If GW thinks they can entice me to buy more of their products, books as you say, then GW has failed again.

So no, I haven't watched the trailer. I bought the fracking box set. What was in there, was garbage and didn't entice me at all, and because of that, I will not buy the books.

So please again, explain to us how we have watched the trailer. How about we have a different opinion than you and instead of telling us we are wrong, just state your opinion instead of trying to prove some of us wrong.

Its the starter set. I am not sure what else to say. If you think that the starter set alone constitutes anything more than a preview of the fluff then yeah, I'm going to say your opinion is unsubstantiated. At best it is like watching the first move of a trilogy then commenting on the whole thing, but I wouldn't even go that far. The Space Marine fluff solely from a starter set isn't any better. Unless you have actually experienced the content you are commenting on, then there is simply no way I can ever take such comments seriously. If you actually have experienced said content then again, I am happy to retract my statements and continue the discussion but otherwise I have no more response because it's nothing more than the same AoS-bashing that we've all heard before. Multiple times.

I'm liking them more from the personal attention a few get in the BL fic but I absolutely see how this has not be transferred to the GW campaign books on anywhere near such level and so I'm not surprised to hear so many say SE are boring. I admit, I kinda agreed and still do, but that chips away at every BL reading or podcast fluff discussion.

I should also share before I was into 40K the SM were always meh to me but BL, RPGs, awesome opponents, better models, pretty much everything turned that around right quick!

Gold was the main force color at release but there are so many schemes already put out in the support books. I liked the turquoise personally and even saw someone make pink work.
So, you can make them look as amazing as you want. Some conversions, like any army, would go along way to diversifying your force.

These are how mine are painted, I couldn't bring myself to paint them like the hammers of sigmar or hallowed Knights. I can see the appeal I just wanted to paint a purple army lol.

I personally like the uniformity the model line has to offer but that could just be my own strange opinion.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Davor wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
What you guys are doing is watching a trailer for a movie then saying the movie is bad. Your impression is perfectly valid but your opinion on the quality of the movie as a whole has no legitimacy because you have not actually viewed the content in question. If you made statements like "from what I saw they seem pretty bland, so I don't like them" then you would be on solid ground. You didn't. You made sweeping statements about the quality of the fluff in its entirety. I can understand people's opinions but if you don't have anything to back it up go start your own thread for unsubstantiated bashing.

No, as someone already said, what you are saying is WE DID watch the movie, we didn't like the movie and now you are telling us to read the book. In other words I watched the movie or I bought the starter box set. Now I find it meh, and you are telling me now I need to read the book. I shouldn't HAVE to read the book. GW failed in getting me into their new lore. GW failed getting me excited. GW failed because I perceive that the SIGMARARINES, not Stormcast eternals are exciting and I should be excited for them.

No, it's not up to me or anyone else to like the Stormcast Eternals, it's up to GW. If GW thinks they can entice me to buy more of their products, books as you say, then GW has failed again.

So no, I haven't watched the trailer. I bought the fracking box set. What was in there, was garbage and didn't entice me at all, and because of that, I will not buy the books.

So please again, explain to us how we have watched the trailer. How about we have a different opinion than you and instead of telling us we are wrong, just state your opinion instead of trying to prove some of us wrong.

Its the starter set. I am not sure what else to say. If you think that the starter set alone constitutes anything more than a preview of the fluff then yeah, I'm going to say your opinion is unsubstantiated. At best it is like watching the first move of a trilogy then commenting on the whole thing, but I wouldn't even go that far. The Space Marine fluff solely from a starter set isn't any better. Unless you have actually experienced the content you are commenting on, then there is simply no way I can ever take such comments seriously. If you actually have experienced said content then again, I am happy to retract my statements and continue the discussion but otherwise I have no more response because it's nothing more than the same AoS-bashing that we've all heard before. Multiple times.

Yes it is the Start Set. It is suppose to get me enticed and excited into this new universe. I don't buy the answer that it's a starter set and it should only wet my appetite. Wet my appetite it did not do and turned me off Age of Sigmar for the first 6 months or more. I guess GW didn't say it, but I assumed it that this would have been a great time and place to get into GW fantasy setting besides 40K. (Lord of the Rings is a different story and doesn't apply here so won't go on more about LotR.) Since the Old World is gone, GW needs to explain this new world. For me, GW failed to entice me into their new world and I expected more. I don't mind paying a lot of money if I am feeling I am getting quality product, but I am not getting any quality from their new world or universe or fluff what ever we shall call it. Why do I want to get invested into something that may not even last 6 months or a year since GW has shown us what it did with the End Times.

I don't want to spend that much time, money and emotion in which something may not last. So since I view the quality in story terms very poor and lacking, why would I want to buy and spend more money that I view and justly so in other people's reviews that GW new fluff is shallow, dull and boring? No way am I going to pay $100 for a book just to know more. GW should be giving me the story, I shouldn't go out of my way to know more. I ma here for my enjoyment. My enjoyment is not just buying GW product and that is it. So if I view the material lacking, shallow and dull, the starter set is all I need.

So in your analogy the first movie sucked big time, no way in hell am I going to see the next two sequels.

Again, I am saying is where GW has failed me. It may not be for you or anyone else, but that is why I don't like Stormcast Eternals.

Now that being said, with GW new leadership and changes they have made in management and policy, I have got back into AoS, but not into Stormcast Eternals. Just imagine if all this was done from the beginning, $40 books, great starter sets, I would have spent so much more into AoS. That would be like if the first movies was great, I would be there for the sequel.

I guess a good example would be the movie Divergence. I watched it because my son had interest in it. I didn't think it was that great so I never bothered with the other 2 sequels.

Or maybe better yet that something actually can apply to me. Star Trek movies. I love Star Trek, Last Star Trek movie I watched at a movie cinema was Star Trek:First Contact. I haven't watched Nemisis and not the reboots at the theater. Why? I found those movies not worth my time or money to go to a cinema. I waited for DVD to watch those movies, and Paramount wonders why not a lot of people go to the cinemas to watch Star Trek anymore.

So I saw the first movie, Divergence or Insurrection. In Divergence case, I haven't even bothered with DVDs yet, but for Star Trek I waited till they came on DVDs. So for Age of Sigmar I am buying the DVDs now or Start Box sets, but not really buying more. Why? Because the stories are lacking and the fluff is not getting me excited to buy the new stuff. Paramount wants me to go see a Star Trek movie at a cinema then they better make a REAL Star Trek movie that is not a 2 hour TV show, and if GW wants me to buy brand new kits, make me interested in buying their new stuff. This Star Dragon, I have no interest in it at all and I still waiting for the AoS DVDs now.

Again, my view. I shouldn't have to go out of my way to get interested and enticed. GW had their chance and blew it with me by making their fluff boring and dull in the Start Box Set. I am not saying Stormcasts are bad and crap, I am just saying they are boring and dull for me.

I agree that GW did an absolutely terrible job of the AoS launch. There is not much they could have done worse, and the starter set does a poor job of representing the fluff as a whole.


On an unrelated note, nice stormcasts Gorthor! Much better than the gold imo.

I think the mistake was the way they got released. AoS so far has a great narrative concept, where the world actually evolves month after month. We're less than a year in and already so much happen.

And.. that's where I think they missed out.

If they released AoS with Chaos vs The Free People, the second ones being an entirely new range of humans, plus one or two never seen before races like Kroots and Vespids for Tau, and then proceeded to hint at the Stormcast for a year long, to finally release them in a big event.. that would have been a hell of a storyline.

A grim world where Chaos is everywhere and the last of the free cities are falling one after the other. Where people pray to a distant god who disappeared centuries ago. The rare rumors of golden knights brought by lightning and saving villages...

Basically what Bottle said. That would have been a fantastic release.

Well this sucks. I read some nice comments and it gave me some inspiration. I was going to get my Stormcasts and trying to paint one or two of them and now I can't find my minis in my mess of miniatures. I can't find anything from my box set. Dang it.

Oh well, next pay day will buy another box set and hoping when I clean up the basement I will find it eventually.

What was the point of my post? Just wanted to say thanks to all for comments here. If it were not for them, I wouldn't want to be touching my Sigmar stuff.

Davor wrote:
Well this sucks. I read some nice comments and it gave me some inspiration. I was going to get my Stormcasts and trying to paint one or two of them and now I can't find my minis in my mess of miniatures. I can't find anything from my box set. Dang it.

Oh well, next pay day will buy another box set and hoping when I clean up the basement I will find it eventually.

What was the point of my post? Just wanted to say thanks to all for comments here. If it were not for them, I wouldn't want to be touching my Sigmar stuff.

That's good, that's what we're here for (well, most of us anyway).

As for painting Stormcast, mine are gold and red, because to me they just screamed Roman Legions. And anything that isn't one of those two colours gets brown. I decided against brown as the primary colour since I thought it wouldn't be very effective visually.

I've really come around on the whole thing, but not enough to buy anything new yet. So I probably haven't come around as much as GW would want.

I've browsed through or occasionally read most of the books, both from BL and from GW proper, and as the story goes on the world is actually getting fleshed out a bit. It's still thin on internal coherency, so stuff that's weird isn't really breaking any rules because the rules haven't been established yet, but it's getting there.

I do think the release was pretty poor, and I still think a lot of the names are really terrible; whether they're the kind of design-by-committee nonsense words that tech companies or coffee chains love or just bad writers, I'm not sure - and it doesn't really matter much.

There's also various things I find inexplicable - why are the paladins with different weapons different units entirely, while the prosecutors with different weapons remain one kind of unit with different options? It's minor, but that lack of systematisation of game presentation bugs me.

But laying all of that aside, I think that within the design choices made for the eternals, GW's done a good job of making nice looking models. If you accept that they respawn, as the books have gone on there has been some effort to represent them changing as they get respawned.

I definitely started off thoroughly despising everything about the setting, and while it's still not great (or, tbh, even something I think is that good) it's improving at a steady pace and I'm pretty interesting in seeing it develop. That same sentiment extends to the eternals - and the presence of more models without the gold and blue scheme really helps that along.

I have to say they've done a good of capturing some of the thematic elements of a space marine, but the actual details within the world the eternals inhabit are different enough to make them interesting on their own terms now. I no longer really think of them as fantasy Space Marines, though my appreciation hasn't gotten to the point where I WON'T introduce them as such to someone if they're unfamiliar with AoS but know 40k.

Love their background, but annoyed at how they are so blatantly based on christian imagery: halos, lanterns, wings, gold armour etc. Seems oit of place, especially when there are other concepts e.g. griffons, comets etc to use.

Tailessine wrote:
Love their background, but annoyed at how they are so blatantly based on christian imagery: halos, lanterns, wings, gold armour etc. Seems oit of place, especially when there are other concepts e.g. griffons, comets etc to use.

Especially as young kids are more likely to be atheist these days.

More proof of them being out of touch.

Tailessine wrote:
Love their background, but annoyed at how they are so blatantly based on christian imagery: halos, lanterns, wings, gold armour etc. Seems oit of place, especially when there are other concepts e.g. griffons, comets etc to use.

Lol. - all of those things pre date christianity. They have borrowed themes from much older and classical mythic themes, to provide a more classic mythic style.

hobojebus wrote:

Tailessine wrote:
Love their background, but annoyed at how they are so blatantly based on christian imagery: halos, lanterns, wings, gold armour etc. Seems oit of place, especially when there are other concepts e.g. griffons, comets etc to use.

Especially as young kids are more likely to be atheist these days.

More proof of them being out of touch.

Wow.
Just... wow. You really will twist anything to fit your view on GW, won't you?
It wouldn't be so bad if your argument even made sense!

People use halos and religious symbols because they have been integrated into every culture and history of our world. Sorry to say but superheroes, video games, many movies, board games, and wargames all have hints of the good vs evil, or good vs evil spirits/monsters, etc taken from religion. Lord of the rings? Star Wars? You betcha, they all got some ideas from portions of religion. A good Hero like the stormcast on the dragon and a halo? Perfect match in my opinion.

And wouldn't say most kids are atheists. Everyone believes something, and even atheist ideals is classified as a religion (take a college class on this, it will open your eyes). Don't like stormcast models? That's great, many don't and many do. To say folks don't believe In religion so demons or chaos shouldn't be in 40k or halos shouldn't be on stormcast models is ridiculous.

Ridiculous indeed.

Like it or not, religion and the bible have some great plot lines, symbols, and story ideas.

hobojebus wrote:

Tailessine wrote:
Love their background, but annoyed at how they are so blatantly based on christian imagery: halos, lanterns, wings, gold armour etc. Seems oit of place, especially when there are other concepts e.g. griffons, comets etc to use.

Especially as young kids are more likely to be atheist these days.

More proof of them being out of touch.

I agree. Instead of the Stormcast being based around lightning and celestial themes they should instead be focused on reason, scepticism and critical examination. We could call them the "Scepticmade Questioners."
They should also get rid of Sigmar, Khorne and all the other imaginary deities and instead call the game "Age of Richard Dawkins."

motski wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

Tailessine wrote:
Love their background, but annoyed at how they are so blatantly based on christian imagery: halos, lanterns, wings, gold armour etc. Seems oit of place, especially when there are other concepts e.g. griffons, comets etc to use.

Especially as young kids are more likely to be atheist these days.

More proof of them being out of touch.

I agree. Instead of the Stormcast being based around lightning and celestial themes they should instead be focused on reason, scepticism and critical examination. We could call them the "Scepticmade Questioners."
They should also get rid of Sigmar, Khorne and all the other imaginary deities and instead call the game "Age of Richard Dawkins."

Perhaps the gender fluidity of the Stormcast is GW keeping on top of today's trends.

coldgaming wrote:

motski wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

Tailessine wrote:
Love their background, but annoyed at how they are so blatantly based on christian imagery: halos, lanterns, wings, gold armour etc. Seems oit of place, especially when there are other concepts e.g. griffons, comets etc to use.

Especially as young kids are more likely to be atheist these days.

More proof of them being out of touch.

I agree. Instead of the Stormcast being based around lightning and celestial themes they should instead be focused on reason, scepticism and critical examination. We could call them the "Scepticmade Questioners."
They should also get rid of Sigmar, Khorne and all the other imaginary deities and instead call the game "Age of Richard Dawkins."

Perhaps the gender fluidity of the Stormcast is GW keeping on top of today's trends.

They are already transgender sigmar turned female dwarves and elves and humans into human men right?

There's female dwarfs?! 0_0

Also, all elves are basically in their own class of female and less female anyway so that doesn't count.