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also she supported Obama long before the convention too.
Yep, but her and Obama's goals were close enough that she had nothing to gain. And she got to be Sec. of State, if you remember.
which is why most of her Supporters were willing to go with Obama, unlike with Sanders supporters which are not.
A good 75% of Clinton's platform is identical to Sanders'. People just have a hard time believing it. And she's actually made a good many concessions on her platform for Sanders. It's not the same, but if they also push state/local/congressional elections, they can get even more done.
And, most importantly, you have to be insane to think that a third party has a chance at that point. As much as I love them, voting for the green party is just voting for Trump. Sanders knows this. Anybody with an ounce of political knowledge know this. And the people without that knowledge probably wouldn't be voting anyway, so it's not really that big of a deal/
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
And, most importantly, you have to be insane to think that a third party has a chance at that point. As much as I love them, voting for the green party is just voting for Trump. Sanders knows this. Anybody with an ounce of political knowledge know this. And the people without that knowledge probably wouldn't be voting anyway, so it's not really that big of a deal/
I've said that before, problem is nobody expected Trump to be the Republican nominee either so as far as this election goes nothing is guaranteed.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2016/07/11 01:38:48
Subject: Re:Trumps family floats Ivanka as VP option
It seems there's a lot of Republicans working through a whole lot of hail mary hopefuls. Clinton will get indicted. #StopTrump will do something. Sanders will refuse to support Clinton, split the party in two and give Trump a chance.
It's not happening, folks. You've got Trump and he's terrible, and everything around that is playing out as you'd expect.
This isn't to say he has no chance and this election is over, because November is a long time away and there's a lot of undecided voters, but it isn't going to be any of these hail mary's that keep getting talked about.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/11 01:39:56
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2016/07/11 01:42:47
Subject: Re:Trumps family floats Ivanka as VP option
sebster wrote: It seems there's a lot of Republicans working through a whole lot of hail mary hopefuls. Clinton will get indicted. #StopTrump will do something. Sanders will refuse to support Clinton, split the party in two and give Trump a chance.
It's not happening, folks. You've got Trump and he's terrible, and everything around that is playing out as you'd expect.
This isn't to say he has no chance and this election is over, because November is a long time away and there's a lot of undecided voters, but it isn't going to be any of these hail mary's that keep getting talked about.
that is like saying us Democrats have Clinton, no gratification there either (ask Bill ) also if you are insinuating I'm a republican I am not told you and others my family votes Democrat, except this election we are either going Republican or independent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/11 01:43:55
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Because he's been negotiating. The convention hasn't happened, the official platform for 2016 hasn't been announced in its grand ceremony. All the various groups that make up the party, Sanders and his supporters included, have been negotiating all of the details of what policies will be a priority and what compromises will be made. The most likely outcome is that Sanders keeps negotiating until the platform is official, then makes a big show of endorsing Clinton when she is officially nominated (if not earlier).
The real question you need to be asking yourself is what other plausible reason he might have for not endorsing her. To run third-party? Hell no, that's something that has zero chance of success and only helps Trump. To endorse nobody and prepare for 2020? That's a little more plausible, but costs him influence in the party right now in exchange for vague hopes about the future. There just isn't a plausible strategy for Sanders that doesn't involve endorsing Clinton.
Asterios wrote: which is why most of her Supporters were willing to go with Obama, unlike with Sanders supporters which are not.
Sanders supporters aren't willing to go with Clinton in July, when there's nothing at stake in answering a poll with "hell no, never Clinton". That changes when it's November and the choices are Clinton or Trump, and doing anything other than voting, however reluctantly, for Clinton means supporting someone who is obviously a much worse candidate. It's exactly what we saw in 2008, disappointed Clinton supporters said "never Obama" when nothing was at stake, but when it came down to Obama or a republican they voted for the lesser of the two evils.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/11 02:00:09
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Because he's been negotiating. The convention hasn't happened, the official platform for 2016 hasn't been announced in its grand ceremony. All the various groups that make up the party, Sanders and his supporters included, have been negotiating all of the details of what policies will be a priority and what compromises will be made. The most likely outcome is that Sanders keeps negotiating until the platform is official, then makes a big show of endorsing Clinton when she is officially nominated (if not earlier).
The real question you need to be asking yourself is what other plausible reason he might have for not endorsing her. To run third-party? Hell no, that's something that has zero chance of success and only helps Trump. To endorse nobody and prepare for 2020? That's a little more plausible, but costs him influence in the party right now in exchange for vague hopes about the future. There just isn't a plausible strategy for Sanders that doesn't involve endorsing Clinton.
Asterios wrote: which is why most of her Supporters were willing to go with Obama, unlike with Sanders supporters which are not.
Sanders supporters aren't willing to go with Clinton in July, when there's nothing at stake in answering a poll with "hell no, never Clinton". That changes when it's November and the choices are Clinton or Trump, and doing anything other than voting, however reluctantly, for Clinton means supporting someone who is obviously a much worse candidate. It's exactly what we saw in 2008, disappointed Clinton supporters said "never Obama" when nothing was at stake, but when it came down to Obama or a republican they voted for the lesser of the two evils.
or go the Sanders/Stein ticket which most of his supporters want.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Asterios wrote: or go the Sanders/Stein ticket which most of his supporters want.
AKA "zero chance of winning, but enjoy having president Trump". His supporters can dream about it all they want but it isn't happening.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/11 02:10:22
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Asterios wrote: or go the Sanders/Stein ticket which most of his supporters want.
AKA "zero chance of winning, but enjoy having president Trump". His supporters can dream about it all they want but it isn't happening.
actually my family would go the Sanders/Stein Ticket, but as it stands now some going with Stein, others with Trump, none for Clinton and we usually vote Democrat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/11 02:12:37
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2016/07/11 02:12:39
Subject: Re:Trumps family floats Ivanka as VP option
Spinner wrote: Sorry, most of his supporters? Got any numbers for that?
its what we are seeing on the net, most (not all) of his supporters want him to go independent. and no, don't think anyone has done a count, but have yet to see Sanders supporters for Clinton.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/11 02:14:43
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2016/07/11 02:21:35
Subject: Re:Trumps family floats Ivanka as VP option
Spinner wrote: Sorry, most of his supporters? Got any numbers for that?
its what we are seeing on the net, most (not all) of his supporters want him to go independent. and no, don't think anyone has done a count, but have yet to see Sanders supporters for Clinton.
Well, here's one. He was definitely my first pick, but anything to keep the highest office in the nation out of the hands of an overgrown playground bully.
The tiny, creepy, regenerating-Deadpool-esque hands.
2016/07/11 02:35:01
Subject: Re:Trumps family floats Ivanka as VP option
Asterios wrote: also if you are insinuating I'm a republican I am not told you and others my family votes Democrat, except this election we are either going Republican or independent.
What? You and your family all vote as one? Do you hold hands and all press the button together?
Meanwhile, you did nothing to address my main point. That "Sanders will refuse to support Clinton, she'll lose his supporter base and woo hoo Trump will come from nowhere' is yet another hail mary that isn't happening. All this talk and blather but here's the one big reality - Trump is the nominee, and he's at 37% nationally.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/11 02:38:17
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Asterios wrote: actually my family would go the Sanders/Stein Ticket, but as it stands now some going with Stein, others with Trump, none for Clinton and we usually vote Democrat.
Yes, some Sanders supporters would go with it, but that isn't enough. He would need virtually all of the non-Trump vote to vote third party, as in 95% or more. If it's anything less then the result is a split of the ~50% of the country that votes democrat between Sanders and Clinton, with Trump getting the majority because the ~50% of the country that votes republican is unified behind a single candidate. And, as we saw when Sanders lost the primary to Clinton, there is no realistic chance of him taking near-100% of the democrat votes in November. And Sanders knows this (or at least his advisors do), so he isn't going to throw away the opportunity to influence the democrats and accomplish something useful just to make a hopeless third-party attempt that does nothing but feed his ego a bit.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2016/07/11 02:52:43
Subject: Re:Trumps family floats Ivanka as VP option
Asterios wrote: also if you are insinuating I'm a republican I am not told you and others my family votes Democrat, except this election we are either going Republican or independent.
What? You and your family all vote as one? Do you hold hands and all press the button together?.
we usually vote Democrat, except in this election none of us are voting Democrat which is ironic to say the least, but we are not all voting for the same candidate, most voted for Sanders in the primaries with a couple voting independent, the general consensus right now is we want new candidates.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Aaaaand there's your problem. You see, Asterios doesn't trust polls and prefers to just make stuff up because it's easier that way.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Gordon Shumway wrote: I wasn't so much trying to argue with him as much as to let others who might read this know the truth about the issue.
It was useful info for me. I didn't realise that so many Clinton supporters took so long to fall in behind Obama.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Orlanth wrote: Whats up with th GOP and fielding morons, and fairly clever businessmen who act like morons, for Senate and Presidential positions.
Neither Obama, not Clinton are much to go with, definitely more froth than coffee. But they appear to be paragons of competence compared to what they are fielded against.
When will they learn?
Are bookies anywhere giving any profitable odds on Clinton being next president, or is it just too clear.
Again, if you like things just like they are, you will vote for Clinton. She is the penultimate status quo candidate. if you don't, you vote for someone else. The world may be surprised at how many vote for someone else.
That's a bit like taking a torch to your house because you're tired of the leaky roof. Just because things aren't perfect doesn't meany any change is better. You don't cure a stuffy a nose by blowing it off your face with a shotgun.
To many people its not that the roof leaks, but that there is no roof, you have no job, no health care, and your kids will do worse than you did.
Meanwhile the dickbag down the street is living in a mansion, driving a Porsche, and his kids go to Harvard witha guaranteed job.
Enough to grow the old Fidel Beard and join the Revolucion.
Do people with those problems go running to the Republican party?
Why!!
Why would they run to either party? Neither party gives a rat's ass about them. Thats why Trump was popular and Bernie was popular (NPR reporting that Bernie is about to endorse Hillary-so much for him).
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Orlanth wrote: Whats up with th GOP and fielding morons, and fairly clever businessmen who act like morons, for Senate and Presidential positions.
Neither Obama, not Clinton are much to go with, definitely more froth than coffee. But they appear to be paragons of competence compared to what they are fielded against.
When will they learn?
Are bookies anywhere giving any profitable odds on Clinton being next president, or is it just too clear.
Again, if you like things just like they are, you will vote for Clinton. She is the penultimate status quo candidate. if you don't, you vote for someone else. The world may be surprised at how many vote for someone else.
That's a bit like taking a torch to your house because you're tired of the leaky roof. Just because things aren't perfect doesn't meany any change is better. You don't cure a stuffy a nose by blowing it off your face with a shotgun.
To many people its not that the roof leaks, but that there is no roof, you have no job, no health care, and your kids will do worse than you did.
Meanwhile the dickbag down the street is living in a mansion, driving a Porsche, and his kids go to Harvard witha guaranteed job.
Enough to grow the old Fidel Beard and join the Revolucion.
Do people with those problems go running to the Republican party?
Why!!
Why would they run to either party? Neither party gives a rat's ass about them. Thats why Trump was popular and Bernie was popular (NPR reporting that Bernie is about to endorse Hillary-so much for him).
It sounds a bit like wondering if the desperate ignored underclass will turn to vote Tory. I dont see that happening even if Labour doesn't give a rodent's rectum either.
Anyway parking this here:
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
) also if you are insinuating I'm a republican I am not told you and others my family votes Democrat, except this election we are either going Republican or independent.
