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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
It just dawned on me that the Imperial Space Marine is perfectly legal for Kill Team.

What do you mean? Space Marines have always been legal.

Yes, but the Imperial Space Marine is a free upgrade to a Space Marine that comes packed with an Instant Death boltgun and Instant Death pistol.

He is however an easier target than before, as he's not bubble wrapped in a squad now.

Technically, since each Marine is a separate unit, I could lay down a Barrage of Grenades each turn.

This is an important thing to remember - Frag Grenades are a very good way of dealing with a horde-style kill-team.

I've used a full cultist force before for similar reasons; it's nigh impossible to kill enough to matter if you've come loaded with Heavy Bolters and high-power weapons.

Out of curiousity, do the new kill team rules mention "Blood For The Blood God"?

I know it's impossible to add models or summon models (for good reason!) but the lower results on the Blood Tithe table - furious charge, feel no pain, +1 attack - are all rather tasty, and since every casualty is a tithe point, rather affordable!

A unit of 30 Khorne Daemonkin Cultists with a couple of heavy stubbers might do rather nicely....

 AesSedai wrote:
In keeping with unloved units getting love in kill team, any thought on viability of vespid stingwings?

Much better than in regular 40k (due to being AP3) and the extra move on a small table helps, however there low LD is a problem with break tests.

locarno24 wrote:
Out of curiousity, do the new kill team rules mention "Blood For The Blood God"?

Yeah the rules mention that BFTBG is not used, along with Warp Storm, Daemonic Instability, Champion of Chaos, Canticles of the Ommissiah, Mob Rule and Doctrina Imperatives. Sadly.

greyknight12 wrote:I'm surprised no one has said "as many scatterbikes/warpspiders as I can fit" yet.

Mine would be 8x Grey Knight interceptors, 2 with nemesis falchions. That gives me 8 Jump Infantry with power weapons and storm bolters that can shunt 30" once per game. Depending on how psychic stuff works, they can all be S6 or Force too.

I faced a very similar unit in the previous version of Kill Team. They worked pretty well - very fast, very durable, decently killy.

However, the Kill Team rules specify that the "Brotherhood of Psykers" rule has no effect, so your guys won't be able to use any Psychic Powers.

Selym wrote:Aren't some of those lists illegal?

Yes. The Ork Kill Team has 2 Elites. The Mechanicus Kill Team puts Specialist Rules on vehicles. (Also, the Eldar Kill Team in the latest White Dwarf includes a Heavy Support War Walker.) Either the various GW guys don't know the rules they are playing well, or they have house-ruled some stuff for the purposes of "forging the narrative" and just aren't mentioning it.

The rules make mention of allowing some leeway in list building:

Players might even agree to alter force compositions to suit the mission, the available terrain, or their model collections. Simple variations, such as allowing a warrior to select additional wargear, or allowing an additional Elites choice, can vary Kill Teams greatly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
After hearing that everybody and their mum at the FLGS has picked up Deathwatch I've decided to go with Tempestus Scions for my own Kill Team, writing a pair of lists, one with and one without a Taurox Prime:

List 1.
Tempestus Scions (5) - Bolt pistol, power weapon, hotshot volleygun & plasma gun
Taurox Prime - Taurox gatling cannon & twin-linked autocannon

List 2.
Tempestus Scions (5) - Bolt pistol, power weapon, hotshot volleygun & plasma gun
Tempestus Scions (5) - Bolt pistol, hotshot volleygun & meltagun

Specialists (all from the first group of five):
Tempestus Scion with the volleygun - Indomitable Specialist (Relentless)
Tempestus Scion with the plasma gun - Weapon Specialist (Ignore Cover)
Tempestus Scion with an eyepatch or something gnarly - Guerilla Specialist (Preferred Enemy)

Not sure though if I should keep the gatling cannon on the Taurox or drop it in favour of the regular cannon and some smoke launchers instead. Though on the other hand, the local meta does favour tough models from time to time, which makes a crapton of shots perhaps more preferable to a single small blast.

 Ambience 327 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
My Kill Team is going to be 5x Deathwatch with Stalker Boltguns in a Rhino. Simple as that. Give the Specialists Eagle Eye for added range.

I haven't read the new rules yet, but unless they've changed it, no two Specialists can choose from the same group of rules, let alone all three have the same one. You can have one Eagle Eye, but they other two will have to have something else.

The new rules haven't changed this restriction. You can't have multiple specialists take abilities from the same Specialist category. Only one could take Eagle Eye.

 DakkaCat wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
Out of curiousity, do the new kill team rules mention "Blood For The Blood God"?

Yeah the rules mention that BFTBG is not used, along with Warp Storm, Daemonic Instability, Champion of Chaos, Canticles of the Ommissiah, Mob Rule and Doctrina Imperatives. Sadly.

definitely stick with 'normal' codex cultists, then. 35 autogun dudes is the way forwards.

I wonder about the viability of a Kill Team made up entirely of Shining Spears. 6 Shining Spears and an Exarch with a Star Lance comes to just under 200pts if I understand it right.

I'm currently thinking of building a list like...

Dark Eldar:
0-2 Troops
N/A
0-1 Elites
4x Mandrakes - 48pts
-Leader
-Combat Specialist
-Dirty Fighters Specialist
-Weapon or Indomitable Specialist
0-1 Fast Attack
3x Beastmaster - 30pts
6x Razorwing Flock - 120pts
Total: 198pts.
(Perhaps swapping 1 or 2 flocks or a Beastmaster for 3 or so Khymera's)

Since Beasts can't be Leaders or Specialists and you REQUIRE them, I've taken 4 Mandrakes to fill those slots, with Stealth and Shroud they will make for great specialists. (Otherwise could swap for a unit of 6 Warriors).
Then taking 6 highly mobile Flocks, 5 rending attacks on the charge, with Init 5 and 3 wounds each they push the KT limitations. Granted they have a 6+ save, but being a beast they can easily run from cover to cover until they are within charge range.

My biggest concern in this team is that it's only 13 models, (15 if I take Warriors), so once I take 7 casualties (easily done) I'll have to start taking break tests and.... well, Ld5 Birds aren't going to stick around for long. (Aka, is having a low Ld Kill Team a really bad idea?)

What are your thoughts? Do you feel it's too few models?
~

Anything more than 10 models is typically considered "enough"
(where as anything with more than 20 is considered "too much", apparently)

Um how about

A jokaero
And 11servitors with heavy bolters ? And chimera

Or a priest
And 11 deamon hosts and chimera ?

Wouldn't the servitors suffer from Mind Lock? Or is that something the Inquisition doesn't suffer from?

Ah yeah poo

 BrookM wrote:
The rules make mention of allowing some leeway in list building:

Players might even agree to alter force compositions to suit the mission, the available terrain, or their model collections. Simple variations, such as allowing a warrior to select additional wargear, or allowing an additional Elites choice, can vary Kill Teams greatly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
After hearing that everybody and their mum at the FLGS has picked up Deathwatch I've decided to go with Tempestus Scions for my own Kill Team, writing a pair of lists, one with and one without a Taurox Prime:

List 1.
Tempestus Scions (5) - Bolt pistol, power weapon, hotshot volleygun & plasma gun
Taurox Prime - Taurox gatling cannon & twin-linked autocannon

List 2.
Tempestus Scions (5) - Bolt pistol, power weapon, hotshot volleygun & plasma gun
Tempestus Scions (5) - Bolt pistol, hotshot volleygun & meltagun

Specialists (all from the first group of five):
Tempestus Scion with the volleygun - Indomitable Specialist (Relentless)
Tempestus Scion with the plasma gun - Weapon Specialist (Ignore Cover)
Tempestus Scion with an eyepatch or something gnarly - Guerilla Specialist (Preferred Enemy)

Not sure though if I should keep the gatling cannon on the Taurox or drop it in favour of the regular cannon and some smoke launchers instead. Though on the other hand, the local meta does favour tough models from time to time, which makes a crapton of shots perhaps more preferable to a single small blast.

Good lists, probably what I'd go for as well. I'd keep the hotshot pistols when dealing with Marines, however. And if people would allow me to '' use additional wargear '', I would take a command squad to use my Tempestor Prime modeled with a regular hotshot rifle.

 BrookM wrote:
He is however an easier target than before, as he's not bubble wrapped in a squad now.

true, but if hes a specialist, you can give him Feel No Pain. or Eagle Eye (36" range bolter, 27" range combi-disintegrator) or Reaping Volley (rapid-fire disintegrator at two different targets!)

basically any role he takes in KT is going to be nasty, especially as he's free

 Bobthehero wrote:
Good lists, probably what I'd go for as well. I'd keep the hotshot pistols when dealing with Marines, however. And if people would allow me to '' use additional wargear '', I would take a command squad to use my Tempestor Prime modeled with a regular hotshot rifle.

Yeah, in hindsight, the local meta is probably going to be a bit of a 3+ jamboree in the coming weeks with Deathwatch everywhere alongside Sternguard and Crisis Suits.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks squad leaders and officers should have access to rifle weapons as well!

Charax wrote:
true, but if hes a specialist, you can give him Feel No Pain. or Eagle Eye (36" range bolter, 27" range combi-disintegrator) or Reaping Volley (rapid-fire disintegrator at two different targets!)

basically any role he takes in KT is going to be nasty, especially as he's free

One can always hope that the model offs itself when firing one of its disintegrator weapons.

Though giving it Eagle Eye may be one of the best options out there, nasty and allowing it to remain further away and in relative safety.

going through a few different ideas with the small amount of CSM i have:

1) Plague marines
veterans of the long war
Plague champ (leader) meltabomb
plague marine with plasma gun (x2) (reaping volley and preferred enemy)
plague marine (havent decided another specialist rule)
plague marine

spawn (MON)

2) noise marines
Noise champ (power sword and doom siren) (leader)
noise marines w/ sonic blaster (x3) preferred enemy, reaping volley)
noise marine w/ blast master (relentless)

spawn (MOS)

3) Chosen
Chosen champ (leader) w/power sword
Chosen w/melta gun (2x) (preferred enemy, reaping volley)
chosen w/ heavy bolter (relentless)
chosen w/ bolter

Cultists x9, champ- autoguns, heavy stubber



thoughts?

Looking at the Necrons, are any of the Forge World units valid options?

The Arcanthrites are basically worse Wraiths but that's still an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlashyGit wrote:
going through a few different ideas with the small amount of CSM i have:

1) Plague marines
veterans of the long war
Plague champ (leader) meltabomb
plague marine with plasma gun (x2) (reaping volley and preferred enemy)
plague marine (havent decided another specialist rule)
plague marine

spawn (MON)

2) noise marines
Noise champ (power sword and doom siren) (leader)
noise marines w/ sonic blaster (x3) preferred enemy, reaping volley)
noise marine w/ blast master (relentless)

spawn (MOS)

3) Chosen
Chosen champ (leader) w/power sword
Chosen w/melta gun (2x) (preferred enemy, reaping volley)
chosen w/ heavy bolter (relentless)
chosen w/ bolter

Cultists x9, champ- autoguns, heavy stubber



thoughts?

Why bother with VotLW? Everyone is Fearless and Hatred vs Space Marines is awfully narrow.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
[
Why bother with VotLW? Everyone is Fearless and Hatred vs Space Marines is awfully narrow.

Yeah, honestly was just trying to squeeze the 5 points in somewhere. any other suggestions where to spend it? i considered giving a power axe to the champ, but everyone having free poison attacks already kind of swayed me against that, and i just opted to give the champ a melta bomb and the squad have VOTLW to eat up those 15 points.

What about an Assassin ? They are Elite so you could take one.
Do you NEED 4 models at least ?
An army of one !

That's something we've also been toying it, it would certainly fall into a "HARD MODE" category for sure.

But the thought of a lone Eversor or lone Vindicare taking on a full enemy team is a neat idea.

 godardc wrote:
What about an Assassin ? They are Elite so you could take one.
Do you NEED 4 models at least ?
An army of one !

Yes, you need 4 non vehicle models. And you can only use one faction.

You can fudge around with the rules though.

 BrookM wrote:
You can fudge around with the rules though.

Yes, but if you start accepting that as a baseline the tactics thread becomes pointless, for example:

"My Kill Team: 1 Knight titan"
"But it' doesn't meet the minimum number of models, vehicle AV or 'leader cannot be a vehicle' restrictions"
"You can fudge around with the rules though. "

Once you start altering the rules, you're no longer playing Kill Team, you're playing "Kill Team: BrookM edition" and your tactics are distinct from those that are appropriate for a KT thread

Wow, just wow.. way to take it to idiotic extremes there.

edit.

Unless you're talking about the "Powering up.." scenario, in which case, do say so! Because that one does allow for super-heavies in KT scenarios.

So I fielded the list I had mentioned earlier in the thread and have a few observations. Specialists ended up being multi-melta sister with infiltrate, flamer with sniper and another flamer with soulblaze.

-my opponent was a blood angels player who was getting back into the hobby, he'd played a game already with DC or assault marines and was keen to try something else, when I pointed out the scouts got FAQ'd he made a camo scout list supported by a las-back.
-I rolled initiative and deployed first, mission type gave me a lot of outflanking and bad rolls gave him none.
-then he siezed initiative and las'd my rhino right in the face.
-Fist roll on shield of faith ever was a success.
-Rhino went on to sneak around terrain, throw storm bolter shots at bunched up scouts, the doms inside got an act of faith off.
-I somehow thought I had BS3, missed two multimelta shots into the las-back that should have hit. Then she took a lascannon shot to the face.
-Neither effect on the flamers came into play. But the flamers themselves were really useful, and scared the scout player away from my objective.
-Game had to end early, overall a quick fun refresher.

I'm beginning to wonder if infiltrate on the multimelta might be better served with eagle-eye. Holding off on soul blaze until I actually encounter a multi-wound model

It may be a bit of a risky waste to have a heavy weapon outflank, as it may both end up at the wrong flank and well, you can still shoot it, but it's a snapshot, so you better hope you hit or you can kiss that model goodbye for sure.

Personally I'd go with Relentless or yes, an increase in weapon range, which does affect the melta range as well.

Maybe give one of your ghouls with a storm bolter ignore cover instead? Which may not seem like much in most cases, but against models with camo gear, quite handy!

 BrookM wrote:
It may be a bit of a risky waste to have a heavy weapon outflank, as it may both end up at the wrong flank and well, you can still shoot it, but it's a snapshot, so you better hope you hit or you can kiss that model goodbye for sure.

Not outflank, Infiltrate. The book says it works as described in the main rulebook.