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Formosa wrote: I always wondered why every army has its own rules for its basic weapon, except Marines.
Tau, many many options to buff the rifle
Guard, orders
Eldar, bladestorm
Orks, ok nothing here
Necrons, gauss
Nids: many options of a basic weapon
Chaos Marines, same as Marines
Ok so not everyone, but a majority have rules to either adapt or buff the basic weapon of there army, I thought Marines would get something, not a complaint, just something to buff it slightly.
You mean like chapter tactics for SM?
In DH 1.0 the bolter was a pretty rare sight. It has great stopping power and the best crits in the game, but came with two disadvantages. First is that the ammo was crazy expensive. Second was its lack of vearsatility (it's loud). Mostly if you want a gun with good stopping power a regular assults rifle or a shotgun would do the job. With autoguns having special rounds, silencer, cheap to replace and higher rate of fire. The full auto rule allowed it to pin opponents and force enemies to duck and cover. For stopping power a heavy stubber would usually suffice on low levels. The bolter generally happened to be in an odd position of less stopping power then specialist/heavier weapons but less vearsatility of it's "equals".
Iirc you could grab a grenade launcher complete with firebombs, frags, krack, smoke and blinds for the same price as the bolter. The grenade launcher gave you infinite combat options and ways to Solving problems. Since the bolter forced you to go loud you might as well do it with bigger explosions.
The bolt pistol on the other hand was great at what it did and fulfilled the function of a powerfull sidearm better then almost anything else.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2016/09/30 08:41:52
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary.
Ok so not everyone, but a majority have rules to either adapt or buff the basic weapon of there army, I thought Marines would get something, not a complaint, just something to buff it slightly.
Ok so not everyone, but a majority have rules to either adapt or buff the basic weapon of there army, I thought Marines would get something, not a complaint, just something to buff it slightly.
Martel732 wrote: I don't really understand the question, because, you know, they're NOT effective.
It's S4, which makes it effective against pretty much anything in the game barring the heaviest armored vehicles.
Even your basic Leman Russ can get harmed if marines get near it's backside.
Arguably the eldar S6 cannon spam is even more effective or even the necron armory, but those are pretty niche to that faction where as the boltgun is featured in roughly half the armies in some form/fashion.
Red__Thirst wrote: The closest thing we've achieved with modern tech to a Bolter is the AA 12.
It's not a gyrojet weapon, however it is a 12 gauge shotgun that fires full automatic and also has specialty made grenade rounds (Yes, you read that right, shotgun fired grenades) that work amazingly similarly to a boltgun
Here's a clip:
And a longer clip showing the grenade round:
Yea. Safe to say, I want one.
Imagine a squad of soldiers packing these with a mix of armor piercing, high exposive, and fragmentation rounds. Pretty damned terrifying if you ask me.
As for the thread, as others have said, the Bolter is the most effective while being easiest to manufacture and repair as well as fulfill ammunition requirements for a protracted battle or campaign.
Anyway, that's my contribution. Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Designing the updated version of the Frag12 and working on the XM-25's rounds is where my personal experience comes from. I worked several years as a munitions design specialist. The version of the Frag12 that's always photographed is an older version that was problematic due to poor engineering design fundamentals.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/30 15:55:56
If we are talking lore wise because rocket propelled mini grenades, if you talking table wise, they are very MEH, all around. S4 AP 5 with no special rule is not that scary
Backspacehacker wrote: If we are talking lore wise because rocket propelled mini grenades, if you talking table wise, they are very MEH, all around. S4 AP 5 with no special rule is not that scary
This is why Power Creep is killing 40k. Guardsmen are TERRIFIED of bolters and yet they're only meh.
Guardsmen and Gaunts fear almost every weapon on the table, though. A good chunk of that is how the AP system works: 6+ and 5+ saves are mostly irrelevant. 4+ saves are weak but you usually get to use them. 3+ saves are decent. 2+ saves are awesome except when they're worthless. And so it goes...
I mean, from a tabletop perspective they're plenty effective against guardsmen, they die on 3's with no armor save. The issue is that Guardsmen are largely worthless as anything but board control and have a bajillion removal options, and the game's scale inflation has bloated to the point that infantry small arms (no matter how impressive) are irrelevant.
And if you think the Bolter is bad, the Lasgun isnt even worth the time it takes to roll the dice
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/30 16:56:30
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Splinter, shuriken and gauss weapons are interesting too, and shootas can at least be fired before charging. I think that's the source of the gripe with bolters.
Backspacehacker wrote: If we are talking lore wise because rocket propelled mini grenades, if you talking table wise, they are very MEH, all around. S4 AP 5 with no special rule is not that scary
This is why Power Creep is killing 40k. Guardsmen are TERRIFIED of bolters and yet they're only meh.
Guardsmen with cover are a lot less terrified. And guardsmen are designed to die. So being weak to bolters means nothing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/30 17:54:25
Backspacehacker wrote: If we are talking lore wise because rocket propelled mini grenades, if you talking table wise, they are very MEH, all around. S4 AP 5 with no special rule is not that scary
This is why Power Creep is killing 40k. Guardsmen are TERRIFIED of bolters and yet they're only meh.
Guardsmen with cover are a lot less terrified. And guardsmen are designed to die. So being weak to bolters means nothing.
That's why you have x dozen more to follow them.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
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