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I know that this is an odd question, the the ubiquitous weapon of the SM, the holy armament used by the Emperor himself, the BOLTER; is often portraid as the end all be all of hand held weapon. Yeah, a plasma gun might be more effective, but a bolter won't blow up in your face. Lasguns might seem to scifi, not to mention that they are little more than flashlights. And slug throwers are just so old fashion. I get it. I just want to know why. Why did GW pick the bolter as their golden child? Enshrined with the holy SM? After all, in our world the bolter never got off the ground.( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet ) and they only sound bad ass at face value. And that they all seem to eject shell casing in the art simply confuses me. I know that I ask a lot of dumb question, especially about the lore; but, why would the Emperor choose to arm his elite soldiers with failed 1960s technology? Certainly the folks at GW could have thought of a better type of weapon to give the SM?

It's a hand-held, rapid-fire grenade launcher. It can kill any sort of soft target quicker and more dependably than any other small arm the Imperium can manufacture. It works in any environment the Space Marines operate in. It also makes a lot of noise and kills its targets in a very messy fashion so it's a perfect weapon for the shock-assault tactics of the Space Marines.

Armor piercing, incredible stopping power, partially self-guided ammunition, and an almost-guaranteed "one shot, one kill" against generally human-sized opponents.

It isn't the 'be-all, end-all' of small arms for many reasons but it suits the purposes of Space Marines and other 'elite' forces of the Imperium.
It's not used for efficiency, versatility or efficacy but for shock and awe. Space Marines win their battles quickly and most of all spectacularly.

In regard to the actual technology irl - it didn't get off the ground for us because we had simpler technology that could reach almost the same level of performance.
A 'modern' gyrojet would have greater range and projectile velocity than current firearms BUT at added cost.
For example, the US had to spend 250,000 bullets to get a single kill in Iraq/Afghanistan.... it's better if those hundreds of thousands are cheaper

Now we circle back to the Imperium. They're reserving these weapons for their Shock Troops (SM) who are exceedingly accurate and so don't waste this more valuable ammunition AND for elite forces, allowing them to make examples of those slain.

I don't really understand the question, because, you know, they're NOT effective.

 Saber wrote:
It's a hand-held, rapid-fire grenade launcher. It can kill any sort of soft target quicker and more dependably than any other small arm the Imperium can manufacture. It works in any environment the Space Marines operate in. It also makes a lot of noise and kills its targets in a very messy fashion so it's a perfect weapon for the shock-assault tactics of the Space Marines.

Wouldn't this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher be more effective? For that matter, why does that thing have no equivalent in game? That would be awesome.

Using real-life technology as a measuring stick always leads to bizarre comparisons to 40k (a Leman Russ is a lot taller, skinnier, and lighter than a real main battle tank, looking at Forge World's figures), but there's a pretty major consideration they have to deal with that we don't. We accept and encourage innovation, understand what we're building, and have the capacity to design and build new production lines, but the Imperium doesn't really know how any of their stuff works and the cult that's got a monopoly on advanced manufacturing processes has folks who try and make new stuff lobotomized and used for manual labour. From our perspective it's 'gyrojets are silly, they didn't work well so we went and developed better traditional firearms instead', but when the Emperor was arming the Legions during the Great Crusade he picked the best tool he had rather than the best tool he could develop.

The original legions used volkite weaponry, but they switched to the bolter because volkite weapons were shorter-ranged and much harder to manufacture and maintain.

As far as the shell casings go I assume from the depiction of recoil in art and video a bolter is a hybrid rather than a pure gyrojet and it fires the bolt with an initial charge before the jet ignites.

From an out-of-universe perspective there isn't much reason not to make gyrojets the armament of the Space Marines; just because we couldn't make them work efficiently doesn't mean another twenty or thirty thousand years of advances in materials science can't make them.


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KayTwo wrote:

 Saber wrote:
It's a hand-held, rapid-fire grenade launcher. It can kill any sort of soft target quicker and more dependably than any other small arm the Imperium can manufacture. It works in any environment the Space Marines operate in. It also makes a lot of noise and kills its targets in a very messy fashion so it's a perfect weapon for the shock-assault tactics of the Space Marines.

Wouldn't this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher be more effective? For that matter, why does that thing have no equivalent in game? That would be awesome.

But it does! https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Elysian-Tauros-Assault-Vehicle?_requestid=384632

(Also Death Guard Grave Warden Terminators have a handheld automatic grenade launcher)

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Using real-life technology as a measuring stick always leads to bizarre comparisons to 40k (a Leman Russ is a lot taller, skinnier, and lighter than a real main battle tank, looking at Forge World's figures), but there's a pretty major consideration they have to deal with that we don't. We accept and encourage innovation, understand what we're building, and have the capacity to design and build new production lines, but the Imperium doesn't really know how any of their stuff works and the cult that's got a monopoly on advanced manufacturing processes has folks who try and make new stuff lobotomized and used for manual labour. From our perspective it's 'gyrojets are silly, they didn't work well so we went and developed better traditional firearms instead', but when the Emperor was arming the Legions during the Great Crusade he picked the best tool he had rather than the best tool he could develop.

The original legions used volkite weaponry, but they switched to the bolter because volkite weapons were shorter-ranged and much harder to manufacture and maintain.

As far as the shell casings go I assume from the depiction of recoil in art and video a bolter is a hybrid rather than a pure gyrojet and it fires the bolt with an initial charge before the jet ignites.

From an out-of-universe perspective there isn't much reason not to make gyrojets the armament of the Space Marines; just because we couldn't make them work efficiently doesn't mean another twenty or thirty thousand years of advances in materials science can't make them.


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KayTwo wrote:

 Saber wrote:
It's a hand-held, rapid-fire grenade launcher. It can kill any sort of soft target quicker and more dependably than any other small arm the Imperium can manufacture. It works in any environment the Space Marines operate in. It also makes a lot of noise and kills its targets in a very messy fashion so it's a perfect weapon for the shock-assault tactics of the Space Marines.

Wouldn't this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher be more effective? For that matter, why does that thing have no equivalent in game? That would be awesome.

But it does! https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Elysian-Tauros-Assault-Vehicle?_requestid=384632

(Also Death Guard Grave Warden Terminators have a handheld automatic grenade launcher)

Neat! If only I could give them to my heavy weapon teams.

KayTwo wrote:
Neat! If only I could give them to my heavy weapon teams.

It's a 36" range Heavy 2 grenade launcher. Autocannons are usually more useful.

The analogy of a bolter to a grenade launcher isn't a good one when you consider 40k has grenade launchers and bolters are less than them.

A bolter is a .75 cal guided munition. It is portrayed with a relatively short cartridge case length with a relatively large shell. At .75 cal it is just slightly larger than a 12ga slug in size. A shotgun in 40k is S3 or S4 depending on the type... With an Astartes shotgun being S4 what this tells us is that all the technology and features describing bolters only amount to a greater range and an actual AP value.

In real world context think of a bolter as a shotgun firing the hottest loads that performs with the range and penetration of an assault rifle with armor piercing ammo... granted instead by its rocket motor and explosive tip.

It begs the question "then why not some sort of advanced assault rifle?" -It comes down to the nature of guided projectiles that are hampered by rifle stabilized spin and thus demand smooth bored weapons. Relative to a rifle a bolter has an almost inadequate short barrel length, made reasonable by the bolt shell's rocket propulsion.

KayTwo wrote:
I know that this is an odd question, the the ubiquitous weapon of the SM, the holy armament used by the Emperor himself, the BOLTER; is often portraid as the end all be all of hand held weapon. Yeah, a plasma gun might be more effective, but a bolter won't blow up in your face. Lasguns might seem to scifi, not to mention that they are little more than flashlights. And slug throwers are just so old fashion. I get it. I just want to know why. Why did GW pick the bolter as their golden child? Enshrined with the holy SM? After all, in our world the bolter never got off the ground.( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet ) and they only sound bad ass at face value. And that they all seem to eject shell casing in the art simply confuses me. I know that I ask a lot of dumb question, especially about the lore; but, why would the Emperor choose to arm his elite soldiers with failed 1960s technology? Certainly the folks at GW could have thought of a better type of weapon to give the SM?

Mainly because it sounded cool. Like most things in 40k, Bolters wouldn't actually function in the real world and have wildly inconsistent descriptions of their operation.

But as a concept they sound super badass, and in a fantasy scifi setting, they're within the realm of believeability.

^ This.

Rule of Cool trumps everything in 40k.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't really understand the question, because, you know, they're NOT effective.

Partially. But you're right. They could be made more effective by some special rule.

I really feel like bolt weapons could get Shred or something without it being too over the top.

I can't really think of any OP unit relying on bolt weapons to do damage, and I can think of plenty of units that are very much not OP.

 aka_mythos wrote:
The analogy of a bolter to a grenade launcher isn't a good one when you consider 40k has grenade launchers and bolters are less than them.

A bolter is a .75 cal guided munition. It is portrayed with a relatively short cartridge case length with a relatively large shell. At .75 cal it is just slightly larger than a 12ga slug in size. A shotgun in 40k is S3 or S4 depending on the type... With an Astartes shotgun being S4 what this tells us is that all the technology and features describing bolters only amount to a greater range and an actual AP value.

This of course assumes game values match up to fluff which they don't. If they did lasguns wouldn't basically stand a chance of taking out space marine out of action! Lone space marine could charge up against platoon of IG troopers carrying lasguns/autoguns/etc and emerge safe and sound...He could even pose there for the troopers giving them ample time to make sure they even hit him and just shrug it off. Not have 1/9 chance of getting taken out action per hit.

There is a reason the game and lore do not match up. No one would want to buy and paint that many guardsmen...

There's designed as assault weaponry that is mostly reliable against a wide range of enemies and worl in nearly all environments.

When great crusade started they picked the best general purpose, easy to supply, and maintain weaponry with highest effective requirements.

It's lack compromise vs say powerful volkite, simple solid shot or sa y general purpose every day las weapons.

The bolter was the best for the task at hand.
And marine strength and armour kinda renders recoil mute, weight mute.
They can easily carry and use such a heavy weapon.

Before I read into the background more I often wondered by Astartes (particularly non codex chapters and CSM) would all be carrying bolters and chainswords instead of more special weapons and power weapons, then I found out bolters and chainswords are far more effective in the fluff than on the table.

I like the idea of bolters being a bit like high powered shotguns that have the accuracy at range of assault rifles and can pierce armour

Martel732 wrote:
I don't really understand the question, because, you know, they're NOT effective.

They are, just not on the table so much which is nothing new for a lot of things in 40k.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I really feel like bolt weapons could get Shred or something without it being too over the top.

How much are you willing to pay for shredding bolters? You know, that would effectively make them s5.5.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
Before I read into the background more I often wondered by Astartes (particularly non codex chapters and CSM) would all be carrying bolters and chainswords instead of more special weapons and power weapons, then I found out bolters and chainswords are far more effective in the fluff than on the table.

I like the idea of bolters being a bit like high powered shotguns that have the accuracy at range of assault rifles and can pierce armour

On that logic why not every trooper in real armies aren't carrying LMG's rather than assault rifles?

Funny thing that but arming everybody with best weaponry isn't always most feasible scenario...

Martel732 wrote:
I don't really understand the question, because, you know, they're NOT effective.

Lighten up, man.

They're effective in the lore, and this is a lore question, not a game question.

 koooaei wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I really feel like bolt weapons could get Shred or something without it being too over the top.

How much are you willing to pay for shredding bolters? You know, that would effectively make them s5.5.

I cannot think of any unit using bolters, storm bolters or heavy bolters to do its damage that does not deserve that boost.

In the lore, bolters are very effective and cool.

On the table top, they are not very wonderful, even with the Imperial Fists chapter tactic that rerolls 1s.

Shred would be nice. Rending might be a bit much.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't really understand the question, because, you know, they're NOT effective.

That's the trick. People think bolters are not effective, feel confident and lower their guard and than you get to double tap range and pop chapter tactics or acts of faith.


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 Ashiraya wrote:


I cannot think of any unit using bolters, storm bolters or heavy bolters to do its damage that does not deserve that boost.

Sure, marines deserve everything like op psy powers, getting free benefical rules upon point discounts and now shreding bolters. Aren't you spoiled enough allready?

It is the ak47 of the 41st millennium, not in how much it's used, but in its symbolism

From the litle lore I've read, the imperium seems to prefer reliability > everything.

Bolters are reliable and do their intended purpose. You point at a baddy, you squeeze the trigger and bullets come out and kill the baddy. Some bolters have been around since 30k and are still being used in 40k. So that said, it's a good design.

Now same goes for Guardsman lasgun. There are millions of planets and trillions of guardsman. They need a reliable, easy to maintain and inexpensive to produce weapon to give to all these soldiers. Hence why the lasgun is the best for said task. They got thousands of variations depending on forgeworld and homeworlds, but all in all it all stays the same reliable, easy to maintain and to manufacture weapon. Bolters are reserved for higher end troops.

Why not give a bolter to every guardsman then if it's better then the flashlight? Cause they can't and don't want to mass produce the bolter like they do with the lasgun. AKA 40K LORE is what makes the bolter the bolter.

 koooaei wrote:


Sure, marines deserve everything like op psy powers, getting free benefical rules upon point discounts and now shreding bolters. Aren't you spoiled enough allready?

I am a CSM player.

Go ahead, tell me how spoiled I am.

 drunken0elf wrote:
From the litle lore I've read, the imperium seems to prefer reliability > everything.

Bolters are reliable and do their intended purpose. You point at a baddy, you squeeze the trigger and bullets come out and kill the baddy. Some bolters have been around since 30k and are still being used in 40k. So that said, it's a good design.

Now same goes for Guardsman lasgun. There are millions of planets and trillions of guardsman. They need a reliable, easy to maintain and inexpensive to produce weapon to give to all these soldiers. Hence why the lasgun is the best for said task. They got thousands of variations depending on forgeworld and homeworlds, but all in all it all stays the same reliable, easy to maintain and to manufacture weapon. Bolters are reserved for higher end troops.

Why not give a bolter to every guardsman then if it's better then the flashlight? Cause they can't and don't want to mass produce the bolter like they do with the lasgun. AKA 40K LORE is what makes the bolter the bolter.

Also Ammo, bolters need Bolts, and they need training to keep in good working order.
a lasgun is cheaper, charge packs can be charged with solar or even a fire.

for a regular grunt who might carry limited gear and less support. there perfect

Bolters are ideal for the elite assult units, or the richer adpetus like the Sisters, Marines and such.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 koooaei wrote:


Sure, marines deserve everything like op psy powers, getting free benefical rules upon point discounts and now shreding bolters. Aren't you spoiled enough allready?

I am a CSM player.

Go ahead, tell me how spoiled I am.

Unfortunately, you have to be sacraficed for the greater good cause if you get a bolter buff, you'd be mediocre. But if sm get the same buff (and they will if you do) than they'd get even more op. Than gw will strip your bolter bonus away and sm will get an additional buff from what's cannibalized from what good your codex once had (lib conclave). Sorry CSM players.