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Autarch?

So the Black Guardian datasheets have been leaked and they do count as Faction: Eldar and have Battle Focus. This is lost if they are taken in a Ynnari detachement as per normal.

If you take an Ulthwe Strike Force as a stand alone (not Ynnari), you could Deep Strike in and use Battle Focus to get into Melta/Flamer range. Is this worth it?
I love the USF for bikes, but I was wondering if the diversity would be worth it, or if they'll just be too expensive for a suicide unit?

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So how does one take a USF as part of Ynnari and how does one take one outside of it? Examples?

 nintura wrote:
So how does one take a USF as part of Ynnari and how does one take one outside of it? Examples?

The USF is a dethachment all by itself. I'm not actually sure if it can be included as part of the Reborn Warhost, but Black Gaurdian units can.

Since it is its own detachment, you just take it. Like it was another CAD or formation.
For example, I could have a CWE CAD with the following:
Farseer Skyrunner
2x 3 Scatterbikes
2 Hornets
WK
Landing Pad

And then I can add the USF as a second detachment:
4x 3 Black Scattterbikes


EDIT: I just realized how expensive Black Gaurdians are with the +3ppm. For small 3-elf bike units, it is not big deal, but each 10-elf Guardian units, it's a whopping 30+ pts per model. Once you get close to the 150p mark, you are no longer an effective suicide unit. Especially with only 2 Flamers/Meltas.

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Yeah I made room for him. Was trying to avoid it, but I think he's pretty necessary. And can't be alpha-struck off the table like a bunker.

K, obvious follow up question as I've always kept my army lists simple due to not really understanding formations/detachmetns, etc. What makes it a detachment? Is it actually listed on the section it's in?

I dont play in a highly competitive environ, but mostly semi-competitive. I was planning to take 3-4 units of guardians in falcons with melta's and DS them for objectives or cherry shots. Figured with that many shots, even power armor won't last long against blade storm. Mostly a way to take a corner of their board from them and use the falcons to provide cover.

 nintura wrote:
K, obvious follow up question as I've always kept my army lists simple due to not really understanding formations/detachmetns, etc. What makes it a detachment? Is it actually listed on the section it's in?

The fact that it is a detachment makes it a detachment. I am really not trying to be snarky, but I really don't know how else to answer.

 nintura wrote:
K, obvious follow up question as I've always kept my army lists simple due to not really understanding formations/detachmetns, etc. What makes it a detachment? Is it actually listed on the section it's in?

I dont play in a highly competitive environ, but mostly semi-competitive. I was planning to take 3-4 units of guardians in falcons with melta's and DS them for objectives or cherry shots. Figured with that many shots, even power armor won't last long against blade storm. Mostly a way to take a corner of their board from them and use the falcons to provide cover.

A detachment is just a grouping of models. Examples of detachments include:

Combined Arms Detachment
Allied Detachment
Formation Detachment

(Someone remind me if I've missed something)

So a formation is a TYPE of detachment. A detachment may be just one formation (or may be a number of formations that count as only one detachment due to their special rules. Where this is the case, it will be stated in the rules for the formation detachment).

It's more than moderately confusing the first time you think about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, after some consideration, my attempt at an 1850 Reborn Warhost (which I think could be pretty competitive):

Reborn Warhost 1:

Farseer, jet bike, spirit stone
Farseer, jet bike

10 wraith guard (cannons)
Shadowseer, ML2

5 windriders, all scatter lasers
5 windriders, all scatter lasers

1 khymera
1 khymera

Skatach Wraithknight (not sure if I can include this guy or if he needs to be a regular wraithknight)

Aspect host (15 warp spiders)


Reborn Warhost 2:

Archon, web way portal
Autarch, banshee mask

3 windriders
3 windriders

Does duplicate one detachment but has a good amount of mobile obsec and a ton of firepower, plus some decent durability. Still ITC legal which is all I'm about.

 luke1705 wrote:
Here's a fun combo when you get to pick your powers (1/3 games):

1) Grab a squad of wraith guard
2) Insert DE Archon w/WWP for no scatter deep strike
3) Also have your friend the farseer in that squad
4) Farseer picks perfect timing + invis + gate
4) After demolishing 1-2 squads, proceed on your next turn to use gate of infinity
5) Arrive wherever you want and murder 1-2 more squads

Cent star has nothing on this! Except more reliable durability. And doesn't need to hope they roll perfect powers.

Not sure on your wording, but WWP can no longer be used to allow no scatter on gate of infinity - DE FAQ covers that. Otherwise I have been thinking something similar.
Don't forget to give your warlord the spirit stone of cast on 1 less WC.


EDIT - looking at the list you have the stone.
Skathatch isn't an option for Reborn Warhost. That is clear and its an issue with it and the imperial one in fall of cadia.
I'd consider getting the leadership debuff on your archon, since you can easily grab psychic shirek on your star.
I'd personally make dual mini stars but not sure that is better, just more flexible

It is also important to note that while the Reborn Warhost is essentially a CAD that can include Formations, it does not actually provide ObSec.
And I noted in YMDC that a Skathach WK can only be included as part of a WraithHost due to it not being included in the list of units available combined with its own ability to replace the regular WK in the WraithHost

Thanks for the advice guys. Been a while since I broke out the Eldar.

TBH, I think forge world's intention is probably to be able to replace a normal wraithknight, but I see that it's only able to be done in the Wraithhost currently.

Also it appears you're right about the loss of obsec. I thought it was a Montka-esque detachment where any detachment could be a Reborn Warhost detachment (thus retaining obsec). Have we actually seen the list of command benefits yet? I've seen special rules but no actual list of command benefits.

Ynnead's Net looks the most dangerous of all the new formations, the main drawback obviously being the Conclave being a relative tax.

The Bladehost looks like it has a silly RAW loophole. I imagine it will be FAQ'd, but since transports are considered part of their Formation, "United in Death" looks like it could allow you to trigger the *entire* formation to Soulburst, including said Transports. Aka "Why yes, I want my Venoms/Wave Serpents/etc to fire twice."

 luke1705 wrote:
Have we actually seen the list of command benefits yet? I've seen special rules but no actual list of command benefits.

As far as we know, there are none aside from Strength from Death. But since most meta-detachments like this have a Warlord Trait re-roll and we haven't seen that yet, it is possible that there are other benefits and a page that hasn't been leaked.

 Galef wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Have we actually seen the list of command benefits yet? I've seen special rules but no actual list of command benefits.

As far as we know, there are none aside from Strength from Death. But since most meta-detachments like this have a Warlord Trait re-roll and we haven't seen that yet, it is possible that there are other benefits and a page that hasn't been leaked.

From someone with the book (these are in the ipad glossary I think,so sort of confirmed)

- Leader of the Reborn : standard warlord trait re-roll

- Our Souls we entrust : all units gain Stubborn. A unit from the detachment within 7" of another units from the same detachment don't make morale cheks when it loses 25%+ of it's models

- Warhost of Ynnead: if you got 7+ units, you can select another unit to make a Soulburst action

What is with the number 7? I thought they were trying to wake Ynnead, not Nurgle.

But seriously, those benefits are nice. Not over the top, but nice

Sorry for all the questions about Ycarne but I am really having a hard time understanding his rules, and I don't know why.

So, he can't charge on a player turn or a game turn when he uses inevitable death? I heard the former from Nintura, but the latter from my friend.

Sorry about all the questions!

 luke1705 wrote:
Yeah I made room for him. Was trying to avoid it, but I think he's pretty necessary. And can't be alpha-struck off the table like a bunker.

Bring a comms on an aegis defense line. Also cheaper and can't be killed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:
What is with the number 7? I thought they were trying to wake Ynnead, not Nurgle.

But seriously, those benefits are nice. Not over the top, but nice

Ynnead is supposed to have revealed the 7th path which avoids the destruction of the eldar as a doomed race.

7th path, huh? Makes sense. I like it when the rules have quirky measurements other than 6, 12, 18, 24, etc.

 Galef wrote:
7th path, huh? Makes sense. I like it when the rules have quirky measurements other than 6, 12, 18, 24, etc.

I don't, keep it to the fluff, it isn't like the in world GW universe is using 7 as a metric for the Ynari. It is another arbitrary number people need to remember. I wish they made ALL bubble affects standard.

What were the first 6 paths?

 gummyofallbears wrote:
So, he can't charge on a player turn or a game turn when he uses inevitable death? I heard the former from Nintura, but the latter from my friend.

Rulebook states that any reference to turn refers to player turn. His rules state 'may not charge in a turn in which it uses this ability'. So that applies to the player turn in which it is used. So Nintura was correct.

Bring a comms on an aegis defense line. Also cheaper and can't be killed.

There's no fortification slot for the reborn warhost. Would need an actual CAD or some other detachment with a fortification slot.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

Yea I laughed when i read he had sanctic as a dicipline, I forgot as a demon he can't use it but was laughing at the prospect of him casting sanctuary and burning his legs on dangerous terrain such a derp moment for GW on that one.

The Yncarn is an MC, so has Move Through Cover and automatically passes Dangerous Terrain checks.

 Imateria wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

Yea I laughed when i read he had sanctic as a dicipline, I forgot as a demon he can't use it but was laughing at the prospect of him casting sanctuary and burning his legs on dangerous terrain such a derp moment for GW on that one.

The Yncarn is an MC, so has Move Through Cover and automatically passes Dangerous Terrain checks.

I thought sanctuary got around that? Makes sense the power would be useless against the important demons anyway. Besides that isn't the point, it's the irony of him casting an anti demon power as a demon, come on.

Just trying to think of ways to get the best out of the Blade host and as they seem a bit underwhelming. United in Death is great on paper, but..

I can only think of popping it with Word of the Phoenix to get basically 6 free Soulbursts instead of 1 (a free move most likely) or;

Use the Storm guardians to tag-team a weak unit with 4 flamers and their pistols and then get all 6 units into assault or

Give the Storm Guardians Fusion Guns and the Harlequins Fusion Pistols to pop tanks (but they'd have to be disembarked) or alternatively go Full Embrace and use the HoW to kill a soft target at I10 and then UiD everyone to get them assaulting at their own initiative step or shooting again.


In general though:

Flamer units like this book as 7" is roughly the length of a template, so Scytheguard and Wraithlords in particular get a nice buff. Flame something to death and then either rinse and repeat or assault it. Should be a nice way to thin out T3 5+/6+ hordes in short order if you can Soften them up with ranged fire and then double tap the flamers each turn.

 Imateria wrote:
What were the first 6 paths?

Doom, death, destruction. For Eldar, for us all. Who knows. The Eldar only care about the 7th path, which is the only one that leads to them possibly, POSSIBLY surviving.

 winterman wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Have we actually seen the list of command benefits yet? I've seen special rules but no actual list of command benefits.

As far as we know, there are none aside from Strength from Death. But since most meta-detachments like this have a Warlord Trait re-roll and we haven't seen that yet, it is possible that there are other benefits and a page that hasn't been leaked.

From someone with the book (these are in the ipad glossary I think,so sort of confirmed)

- Leader of the Reborn : standard warlord trait re-roll

- Our Souls we entrust : all units gain Stubborn. A unit from the detachment within 7" of another units from the same detachment don't make morale cheks when it loses 25%+ of it's models

- Warhost of Ynnead: if you got 7+ units, you can select another unit to make a Soulburst action

Ok so sounds like no obsec. Could you elaborate on the warhost of ynnead? Are you saying that as long as you have 7 units....on the table....that you get a free soulburst action each turn?

 luke1705 wrote:

 winterman wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Have we actually seen the list of command benefits yet? I've seen special rules but no actual list of command benefits.

As far as we know, there are none aside from Strength from Death. But since most meta-detachments like this have a Warlord Trait re-roll and we haven't seen that yet, it is possible that there are other benefits and a page that hasn't been leaked.

From someone with the book (these are in the ipad glossary I think,so sort of confirmed)

- Leader of the Reborn : standard warlord trait re-roll

- Our Souls we entrust : all units gain Stubborn. A unit from the detachment within 7" of another units from the same detachment don't make morale cheks when it loses 25%+ of it's models

- Warhost of Ynnead: if you got 7+ units, you can select another unit to make a Soulburst action

Ok so sounds like no obsec. Could you elaborate on the warhost of ynnead? Are you saying that as long as you have 7 units....on the table....that you get a free soulburst action each turn?

Exact wording is "If this detachment includes 7 or more units, you can select one additional unit to make a Soulburst action each time a unit is destroyed."

Oh thats good, because its not 7+ /Surviving/ units, its just 7+ total?

 Thud wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 winterman wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Have we actually seen the list of command benefits yet? I've seen special rules but no actual list of command benefits.

As far as we know, there are none aside from Strength from Death. But since most meta-detachments like this have a Warlord Trait re-roll and we haven't seen that yet, it is possible that there are other benefits and a page that hasn't been leaked.

From someone with the book (these are in the ipad glossary I think,so sort of confirmed)

- Leader of the Reborn : standard warlord trait re-roll

- Our Souls we entrust : all units gain Stubborn. A unit from the detachment within 7" of another units from the same detachment don't make morale cheks when it loses 25%+ of it's models

- Warhost of Ynnead: if you got 7+ units, you can select another unit to make a Soulburst action

Ok so sounds like no obsec. Could you elaborate on the warhost of ynnead? Are you saying that as long as you have 7 units....on the table....that you get a free soulburst action each turn?

Exact wording is "If this detachment includes 7 or more units, you can select one additional unit to make a Soulburst action each time a unit is destroyed."

Sweet baby Jesus. Does that mean that you get the benefit all game long?

I restate, sweet baby Jesus. So long Obsec. Can't say you didn't do anything for us but this is bonkers

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Oh thats good, because its not 7+ /Surviving/ units, its just 7+ total?

That would kinda counter to the fluff... the more of your units that die, the weaker you get?