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Fhionnuisce wrote:
I see where the additional unit needs to be from the detachment that gives the bonus since command benefits are by detachment, but where did it say the additional needs to be from the same detachment the first soulburst?

Detachment benefits do not acknowledge the existence of other Detachments. The rule even says if "the detachment" or "the reborn host" (I can't remember which, but either works) consists of 7+ units, than you may pick an addition unit to Soulburst. I am paraphrasing because I do not have my book with me.

Since the rule does not specifically provide an exception to the BRB rules for Command benefits (which says the rules only apply to units in the detachment) than we do not have permission to apply said rules to any units outside that detachment. I.e. both the first and second Soulburst must be from the same detachment, or the rule breaks down



As for units containing models from 2 Reborn hosts, that's simple. If an IC from Host A is joined to a unit from Host B, then that unit is from Host B for all rules purposes.
The IC becomes part of the unit form Host B and will only trigger the option for a second Soulburst in other units from Host B, even if units from Host A are present.

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Can the USF be ynary faction?

kaintxu wrote:
Can the USF be ynary faction?

No. You can take Black Guardian units in the Reborn Host (to give them the Ynnari Faction) but the USF is not a detachment that is allowed in the Reborn Host.
Honestly, the USF is the best way to take BG units because they keep Battle Focus and get to deep strike turn 1. And since you have to be 9" away when they drop, you aren't abel to Soulburst with them anyway

What I want is turn 1 bikes for alpha strike, so battle focus is useless for them but soul bursting would be great

kaintxu wrote:
What I want is turn 1 bikes for alpha strike, so battle focus is useless for them but soul bursting would be great

Sadly there is no way to achieve this. You either get the T1 deep strike from the USF, or the ability to Soulburst from the Reborn Host
But like, I said above, even if you could take a USF in the Reborn Host, you would not get to Soulburst on the turn they Deep Strike in, because the Webway Assault rule says you cannot place them within 9" of enemy models. You need to be within 7" of a unit that dies to Soulburst.

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Who says I could not?

My idea is not to activate them when I will, but when my you it is killed. My plan was taking 2 groups of 3x3 scat bikes. If you kill a unit of 3, the other 2 units get to shoot at you, so kill 3 bikes, take 24S6 shots

With the DS I could make sure I take vehicles back or side and with that activate sould burst in things like my WK or other things

kaintxu wrote:
Who says I could not?

My idea is not to activate them when I will, but when my you it is killed. My plan was taking 2 groups of 3x3 scat bikes. If you kill a unit of 3, the other 2 units get to shoot at you, so kill 3 bikes, take 24S6 shots

With the DS I could make sure I take vehicles back or side and with that activate sould burst in things like my WK or other things

Most people first think of dropping in, killing a unit, then Soulbursting off that unit. Being outside 9" means you will not be within 7" to gain that Soulburst. That is what says you cannot.
But it a moot point, since the USF cannot be taken in the Reborn Host, thus there is no way to give units in a USF the SfD rule.

You could take 3 Elite choice Black Gaurdian Windriders in the Reborn Host though, but they will not come in until Turn 2 at the earliest. If you are OK with that, than go for it. Getting the Souburst from your units being killed is a hella fun way to punish your opponent
I would rather have my 24+ Str6 shots on the table turn 1 though

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Been lurking reading this for a bit, really interested Galef on how your strategy works, I saw the lists you posted but want to understand better how you use your soulburst actions? Great stuff so far btw.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Been lurking reading this for a bit, really interested Galef on how your strategy works, I saw the lists you posted but want to understand better how you use your soulburst actions? Great stuff so far btw.

So basically since Vypers do not ever get a Soulburst, putting them in an USF gives them much needed versatility.
The rest of my list is in the Reborn Host (so those units get to Soulburst)

The plan is to drop the Vypers in on turn 1, within 18-19" of my Windriders. The Vypers try to get into Side Armour if possible (cuz rear armour shots are unlikely if the opponent doesn't move forward) or get the Vypers to be able to shoot at any MSU Marine units, or really any other unit that doesn't want AP2 pointed at it.
The Windriders than move up next to the Vypers (so they are now within 6-7"). The Vypers shoot, the Windriders shoot, etc.

Now the opponent has a hard choice. Kill a bike unit, thereby setting off a Soulburst or 2 from other bike units near them. Or Kill the Vyper, which will be easier to kill than the bikes, but will set off 2 Soulbursts from the bikes. The Vypers have guaranteed AP2 and thus cannot be ignore
If the Vypers die, I get to retaliate. If they live, they will earn their points worth from the drop and subsequent turns and will act as a permanent escort for the Windriders (as the fluff intends them to be). This tactic can work with War Walkers too, but it limits the overall movement of the group due to the WW not being able to move 12" or move flatout. And Vypers are cheaper

Worst case scenario, the opponent kills the bike units in a way that only grants 1 Soulburst, then once the bikes are dead, they kill the Vyper. But if the opponent has the fire power to do that in 1 shooting phase, tactics are irrelevant at that point

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 Galef wrote:

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Been lurking reading this for a bit, really interested Galef on how your strategy works, I saw the lists you posted but want to understand better how you use your soulburst actions? Great stuff so far btw.

So basically since Vypers do not ever get a Soulburst, putting them in an USF gives them much needed versatility.
The rest of my list is in the Reborn Host (so those units get to Soulburst)

The plan is to drop the Vypers in on turn 1, within 18-19" of my Windriders. The Vypers try to get into Side Armour if possible (cuz rear armour shots are unlikely if the opponent doesn't move forward) or get the Vypers to be able to shoot at any MSU Marine units, or really any other unit that doesn't want AP2 pointed at it.
The Windriders than move up next to the Vypers (so they are now within 6-7"). The Vypers shoot, the Windriders shoot, etc.

Now the opponent has a hard choice. Kill a bike unit, thereby setting off a Soulburst or 2 from other bike units near them. Or Kill the Vyper, which will be easier to kill than the bikes, but will set off 2 Soulbursts from the bikes. The Vypers have guaranteed AP2 and thus cannot be ignore
If the Vypers die, I get to retaliate. If they live, they will earn their points worth from the drop and subsequent turns and will act as a permanent escort for the Windriders (as the fluff intends them to be). This tactic can work with War Walkers too, but it limits the overall movement of the group due to the WW not being able to move 12" or move flatout. And Vypers are cheaper

Worst case scenario, the opponent kills the bike units in a way that only grants 1 Soulburst, then once the bikes are dead, they kill the Vyper. But if the opponent has the fire power to do that in 1 shooting phase, tactics are irrelevant at that point

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Great answer and explained very well, why not take two sets of Wraiths? with two archons? in the games you have played how are you using your Wraith Guard? Just go for the most potent enemy unit and wipe it? My unit is 5 scythes WG, archon with WWP, Shadow field, two shadow seers, having both the mask and armor to affect leaderships, looking for anything to use those leadership buffs for my shadowseer powers, its a point sink and means I am not running a Wraith knight, but looking for in game feedback as I don't get to play that often and usually when I do its a tourney!

Wraiths are great too, but they don't come in turn 1, so pairing them with a USF is tricky. You need an Autarch to -1 a reserve roll and keep one of the Vypers off the board.

In a recent game I took 5 D-scythe WG, and WWP Archon with Armout of Misery and a Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets.
They dropping in front of St Celestine joined to a SM bike command unit with Grav. I tried Shriek first, but could not get enough wounds to get through Celestine's 4++ and FNP. I only managed to kill 1 of her side-kicks.
But once I dropped the templates (4 total due to placement), I manage to get 19 hits, which blew through her and the entire bike unit.
The best part was that she roll an 8 for her LD to come back to life. Because the Armour & Mask were giving her a -4LD, that was a fail, so she did not come back.

Best 440pts in my list that game.

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 Galef wrote:
Wraiths are great too, but they don't come in turn 1, so pairing them with a USF is tricky. You need an Autarch to -1 a reserve roll and keep one of the Vypers off the board.

In a recent game I took 5 D-scythe WG, and WWP Archon with Armout of Misery and a Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets.
They dropping in front of St Celestine joined to a SM bike command unit with Grav. I tried Shriek first, but could not get enough wounds to get through Celestine's 4++ and FNP. I only managed to kill 1 of her side-kicks.
But once I dropped the templates (4 total due to placement), I manage to get 19 hits, which blew through her and the entire bike unit.
The best part was that she roll an 8 for her LD to come back to life. Because the Armour & Mask were giving her a -4LD, that was a fail, so she did not come back.

Best 440pts in my list that game.

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Everytime I think about doing exactly this I think...... Tau Interceptor Fire. Thats why Tau are the worst. They ruin everything. lol

Seriously though, what are you doing tactically to prevent getting removed in the movement phase due to intercepting suits?

Tau kills a unit, others soul burst, getting to shoot.

Fragile wrote:
Tau kills a unit, others soul burst, getting to shoot.

Exactly. Remember that Intercept happens at the end of you movement phase. With Eldar mobility, that gives you plenty of time to get 2-3 Ynnari units in range of anything that just Webway'd in. And if Tau use their Intercept on a Vyper, who really just won that exchange?
This is how that goes:

Step 1: Several single Vypers drop in
Step 2: Windrider move in 7" to them
Step 3: Tau intercept and kill Vypers
Step 4: Scatterbikes get to Soulburst
Step 5: You get to shoot again with the Scatterbikes in the shooting phase, ignoring any units that Intercepted because you know those units won't be able to shoot in the Tau turn
Step 6: Profit

If you do the above right, the Tau will have a pretty crappy shooting phase because they got greedy with their Intercept and you killed things that didn't Intercept.

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 Galef wrote:
Wraiths are great too, but they don't come in turn 1, so pairing them with a USF is tricky. You need an Autarch to -1 a reserve roll and keep one of the Vypers off the board.

In a recent game I took 5 D-scythe WG, and WWP Archon with Armout of Misery and a Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets.
They dropping in front of St Celestine joined to a SM bike command unit with Grav. I tried Shriek first, but could not get enough wounds to get through Celestine's 4++ and FNP. I only managed to kill 1 of her side-kicks.
But once I dropped the templates (4 total due to placement), I manage to get 19 hits, which blew through her and the entire bike unit.
The best part was that she roll an 8 for her LD to come back to life. Because the Armour & Mask were giving her a -4LD, that was a fail, so she did not come back.

Best 440pts in my list that game.

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How do the 2 relics effect the leadership? There is no model on the board within range to be effected. Asking out of curiosity rather than argument as not 100% sure how the relics interact with models that aren´t there.

 rawne2510 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Galef wrote:
Wraiths are great too, but they don't come in turn 1, so pairing them with a USF is tricky. You need an Autarch to -1 a reserve roll and keep one of the Vypers off the board.

In a recent game I took 5 D-scythe WG, and WWP Archon with Armout of Misery and a Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets.
They dropping in front of St Celestine joined to a SM bike command unit with Grav. I tried Shriek first, but could not get enough wounds to get through Celestine's 4++ and FNP. I only managed to kill 1 of her side-kicks.
But once I dropped the templates (4 total due to placement), I manage to get 19 hits, which blew through her and the entire bike unit.
The best part was that she roll an 8 for her LD to come back to life. Because the Armour & Mask were giving her a -4LD, that was a fail, so she did not come back.

Best 440pts in my list that game.

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How do the 2 relics effect the leadership? There is no model on the board within range to be effected. Asking out of curiosity rather than argument as not 100% sure how the relics interact with models that aren´t there.

The Mask affects models within 12", the Armour affects units within 6". Celestine takes the LD test prior to being removed as a casualty, if she fails she is removed as normal, if passed place a counter for her to come back in her next turn.
So she was definitely on the board when she takes the LD test and since my unit was within 1" of her, she was definitely suffering -4LD from the Mask & Armour combined

For the Mask to work on Shriek though, I think the whole unit must be within 12". Had 1 model been out of range, it's LD could effectively cancel out the affect of the -2LD on the other models in the unit. But the Armour only needs 1 model in range for the whole unit to have -2LD.

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Ok my understanding was that you place a marker when she dies and the leadership test was in the next turn.

 rawne2510 wrote:
Ok my understanding was that you place a marker when she dies and the leadership test was in the next turn.

That is what I thought too, but he had the rules and it only makes sense to take the LD before placing the counter. How could she take an LD test at all if she isn't on the table.

Making sense with regard to GW rule writing? Don´t be mad.

I know, GW is making some crazy sense lately. Who would have thought?

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 Galef wrote:
For the Mask to work on Shriek though, I think the whole unit must be within 12". Had 1 model been out of range, it's LD could effectively cancel out the affect of the -2LD on the other models in the unit. But the Armour only needs 1 model in range for the whole unit to have -2LD.

Is there a definitive answer on which Ld value to use for shriek? I always thought majority Ld made more sense, in which case the mask only needs to cover half the unit.

fresus wrote:

 Galef wrote:
For the Mask to work on Shriek though, I think the whole unit must be within 12". Had 1 model been out of range, it's LD could effectively cancel out the affect of the -2LD on the other models in the unit. But the Armour only needs 1 model in range for the whole unit to have -2LD.

Is there a definitive answer on which Ld value to use for shriek? I always thought majority Ld made more sense, in which case the mask only needs to cover half the unit.

No there is no official answer. You only use the highest LD for LD tests, but since Shriek isn't one of those, it is up in the air. However, the vast, VAST majority of players insist on using the unit's highest LD, so I just roll with that rather than get into a discussion about it. Even though I feel that majority LD should be used in this situation, just like Toughness.

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 Galef wrote:

fresus wrote:

 Galef wrote:
For the Mask to work on Shriek though, I think the whole unit must be within 12". Had 1 model been out of range, it's LD could effectively cancel out the affect of the -2LD on the other models in the unit. But the Armour only needs 1 model in range for the whole unit to have -2LD.

Is there a definitive answer on which Ld value to use for shriek? I always thought majority Ld made more sense, in which case the mask only needs to cover half the unit.

No there is no official answer. You only use the highest LD for LD tests, but since Shriek isn't one of those, it is up in the air. However, the vast, VAST majority of players insist on using the unit's highest LD, so I just roll with that rather than get into a discussion about it. Even though I feel that majority LD should be used in this situation, just like Toughness.

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Given how important shriek is to many competitive lists I'm surprised ITC and Nova haven't included it in their FAQs or have they?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:

fresus wrote:

 Galef wrote:
For the Mask to work on Shriek though, I think the whole unit must be within 12". Had 1 model been out of range, it's LD could effectively cancel out the affect of the -2LD on the other models in the unit. But the Armour only needs 1 model in range for the whole unit to have -2LD.

Is there a definitive answer on which Ld value to use for shriek? I always thought majority Ld made more sense, in which case the mask only needs to cover half the unit.

No there is no official answer. You only use the highest LD for LD tests, but since Shriek isn't one of those, it is up in the air. However, the vast, VAST majority of players insist on using the unit's highest LD, so I just roll with that rather than get into a discussion about it. Even though I feel that majority LD should be used in this situation, just like Toughness.

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Given how important shriek is to many competitive lists I'm surprised ITC and Nova haven't included it in their FAQs or have they?

So I just checked the BRB FAQ, and I still dont have an answer to my question.

An archon with a shadow field is blessed with sanctuary. Is it possible to have a 1++?

I remember reading something somewhere that states this can never be the case but cant seem to find the ruling?

 Klowny wrote:
So I just checked the BRB FAQ, and I still dont have an answer to my question.

An archon with a shadow field is blessed with sanctuary. Is it possible to have a 1++?

I remember reading something somewhere that states this can never be the case but cant seem to find the ruling?

I believe the BRB states that saves can never be brought below 2+. That may be in reference to a particular type of save (like cover).
But even if this is not the case, a natural roll of '1' is always a failure anyway*, so it does not matter.



*except in cases where '6' is a auto-fail, such as characteristic tests.
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Yea I remember something vaguely, just couldn't find the specific ruling. I remembered the 1's always fail thing just before. Thanks dude!

Maximum Save
Some models gain additional benefits from rules that may increase any of their saves by +1 or +2 or even more. However, no save (armour, cover or invulnerable) can ever be improved beyond 2+.

Hey guys, so I have a couple of basic questions. I play necrons, so having fragile models and the psychic phase are totally foreign to me.

What are the most potent spells/what are the best trees to roll on?

Are there different strategies the more psykers you have? I have eldrad, a shadowseer, farseer on a jetbike and the triumvarate so far, so there is a lot of different options for trees.

Does the -Ld strat work ok? I love the look of the incubi so I have been playing around with mini death star with them, eldrad, yvraine, the visarch, a shadowseer and an autarch. Between all three factions there are numerous different -Ld weapons/psychic abilities, and enough psykers to buff the incubi to stay reasonably protected, as well as using yvraine and the visarch to tank with their wound regen?

What do people think of starweavers?

I adore the models, best looking jetbikes IMO, but...

They are very expensive, 1 with a zepherglaive and haywire cannon is almost the same cost 3 scat bikes, and as a result they are not that optimal.

Would a big squad of them with a farseer on a jetbike be effective in an army? Or is there anyway to get the blades of fate in a Warhost?

With 8th ed coming out soon I don't want to build a super competitive army yet and what drew me to playing ynnari in the first place is loving the harlies/DE models, and now there is a way to combine them, so I'm just building/painting what I like the look of so far.

Thanks for any and all help my friends

I just got back from a 80 person team tournament (4 per team), we finished third and i went undefeated 4-0-1. ETC rules so full strength D allowed and multiple wraithknights allowed if they have different weapon loadouts (most the other eldar went this route)

This was my list briefly
jetseer/autarch on jetbike
6x3 windriders
3x3 black guardian windriders
3x1 D artillery
ulthwe strikeforce 4x3 windriders

First game was vs a lions blade with a riptide wing, i went second and was doing very badly on maelstrum but managed a 10-10 draw thanks to killpoints.

Second game was vs a more fluffy type guard player with no tanks, tabled him in 4 turns.

Third game was against the guys who won the tournament and really good players including a top LVO finisher as team captain . There ynarri player rolled with double knight and 6 units of warp spiders. I castled up basically out of his range most the game, killed his melee knight first turn, and his reserves came in slowly so i was able to focus each element down individually, while mainting a bubble wrap of bikes around my knight not allowing the spiders a spot to land and even engage my knight. I ended up tabling the guy in the 5th round.

Fourth round was vs a guy named logan who does podcasts in our area (ontario). Another good player, he had a surge, riptide wing, couple skyrays, couple broadsides in a bunker. I went first and we basically spent the first coule turns trying to avoid having a big unit wiped out by the opposing forces D weapons. Eventually i won a combat with my knight vs a culuxis assasin that left me exposed and he vaped my knight out and i thought it was over. i battled back and used my mobility to stay alive, we almost ran out of time and agreed to call it after 5, and i just had to many bikes left and took 3 of the 4 end of game onbjectives (while contesting the fourth), and i took the game down 24-21.

My final game was vs a salamanders army who admitidly basically took one for his team vs me because none of the other lists on his squad liked the matchup vs me. Great guy and player, but just overmatched and i basically used his own drops pods in my deployment zone to constantly trigger soulburts and i tabled him on turn 5.

Ended up with 82/100 battle points, we also had the highest painted score but cant win both the third place prize and best painted prize.

Loved the nature of this event and we had to submit lists only 1 week after the ynarri book was released so there was actually a ton of eldar variety there, but i really felt i had the best eldar list there and proved it on the table. It was nice to not have any established net lists to draw from and to make a new list for once.

I played in an RTT last weekend ans took the Yncarne. I was underwhelmed. He beats up weak units just fine, but can't really stand up to big baddies. Doubt I'll be taking him competitvely again.