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 Galef wrote:
No, I think they are right. It means that a single Troop slot may be ONE of the following units. You'll have to take ANOTHER Troops slot to take another unit of the same or different.

In other words, you cannot use 1 Troops slot to get 2 units. Kinda weird wording though.

-

So basically you have 2 Cards that say TROOP: _________ and on that line you are writing "Guardian Squad", and on the second card's line you are writing "Wyches". Then if you wanted, you could add a third card and write on that line "Guardian Squad".

fresus wrote:
My short term plan is to get a wraightlord, paint it like a mix between harlequin and ynarri, and add it to my Harlequin army.
With two missile launchers (not sure of the exact name, the ones that have 3 firing modes, one being a Str7 Skyfire shot), it should give an actual anti-air option, as well as a pretty durable unit (by Harlequin standard). With the big sword and a cool paintjob, it should fit pretty nicely into my Harlequin force too.

Have you thought about findin some of the old metal harlequin jetbike canopies, people make awesome Harlequin wraithlords with them

fresus wrote:
My short term plan is to get a wraightlord, paint it like a mix between harlequin and ynarri, and add it to my Harlequin army.
With two missile launchers (not sure of the exact name, the ones that have 3 firing modes, one being a Str7 Skyfire shot), it should give an actual anti-air option, as well as a pretty durable unit (by Harlequin standard). With the big sword and a cool paintjob, it should fit pretty nicely into my Harlequin force too.

As well as cost a freaking fortune (185 points ish) and die to grav like it's nobodies business. Be careful of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just want to do an Ulthwe Strike Force and add Ynnari to it. Being able to change playstyles up from time to time.

Alessander wrote:Have you thought about findin some of the old metal harlequin jetbike canopies, people make awesome Harlequin wraithlords with them

Spoiler:

I've seen quite a lot of them, and I'm actually not a big fan.
My plan would be to airbrush the mask to put some type of geometrical pattern on it. A great example (on a wraighknight, but a wraithlord isn't much different) can be found here: http://taleofpainters.blogspot.fr/2016/06/showcase-eldar-harlequin-troupe-of.html . I think the two WK mesh very well with the rest of the force, I would like to do something similar with my color scheme.

nintura wrote:

fresus wrote:
My short term plan is to get a wraightlord, paint it like a mix between harlequin and ynarri, and add it to my Harlequin army.
With two missile launchers (not sure of the exact name, the ones that have 3 firing modes, one being a Str7 Skyfire shot), it should give an actual anti-air option, as well as a pretty durable unit (by Harlequin standard). With the big sword and a cool paintjob, it should fit pretty nicely into my Harlequin force too.

As well as cost a freaking fortune (185 points ish) and die to grav like it's nobodies business. Be careful of that.

It's certainly not the most competitive option, but I think it would work when playing casually. I see plenty of fluffy lists that have a flyer or two in them, and currently they're a pain to play against with my harlequins. I just want to have something to throw their way, while keeping it a friendly game.

My WL has the only scatterlasers in the army so I can get away with it lol. I like to give them re-rolls and watch my opponents cry.

What do people think of the formations, Aeldari Bladehost, Soulbound Vanguard, Whispering Ghost Hall and Ynnead's Net?

I don't want to be negative but they all seem to be "we'd love to buy this models - but, uh, couldn't really come up with any rules as to why you would".

The Bladehost is going to be efficient on the Soulburst but I don't see how that is going to get past Wyches and Storm Guardians not doing any damage. Hatred isn't going to be enough.

The Soulbound Vanguard feels like someone has a vision but I am not sure its going to work in practice. Wyches are still bad although furious charge will help a bit. Dire Avengers and Incubi are mid tier but its hard to see how the investment is worth the perks.

The Ghost Hall is just a collection of stuff. Fear with a -2 is going to be okay against the ever shrinking list of armies that are subject to fear - although getting into assault with slow units seems to get ever more difficult. Although I guess that is where Soulburst helps.

The thing is though if you have an obsession with regular Wraithguard/Blades you are probably just going to take the Wraith Host because you want a Wraith Knight.

Finally there is Ynnead's Net. I can see the potential of units coming from all table edges, grabbing objectives and attacking isolated units. One or two units is likely to be out of position for a turn but the Jetbike allows them to quickly cover ground and you get a choice of which unit to put where. So that might be worth experimenting with.

Yeah, not overly found of any of those formations. And basically for the reasons you stated. They require you to field sub-par units for not overly great bonuses,

The Soulbound Vanguard isn't bad but only seems to shine if you take the overpriced characters.
Ynnead's Net is ok if you really have a thing for Jetbikes (and I do). Too bad it didn't include Shining Spears too.

The Ulthwe Strike Force is really the only detachment you'll see a lot. The Reborn Warhost is basically just a CAD that allows you to take units for each codex.

-

This is taken from the Harlequin thread that I just resurrected and comes from the perspective of someone who wants to primarily run Harlequins.

Personally, the loss of run+charge that you get from a straight masque detatchmeant (the Harlequin CAD type formation) seems too much. You can get that by running a Cegorath's Revenge formation, but then you are paying for a whole bunch of stuff that you might not need or want.

Seemingly, anything you could do before for Halreuqins and an allied CAD you can do now. The only two upshots I see:
1) the pseudo 3rd edition consolidation from combat into combat that Soulburst can provide after destroying an enemy unit.
2) larger troops hitching lifts in Raiders

I don't know if these outweigh the tax of taking a Cegorath's Revenge formation or the loss of taking just 'plain' Harlequins in a Ynari CAD when you can get run+charge from a normal Masque detachment.

Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

Anyone attempted a list with points yet... Would be interesting to see how a Ynnead force would work on paper

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

People have pointed this out but I am fairly confident the pseudo-Codex trumps the BRB. I mean its a bit daft for them to explicitly say it gets Santic and then go "aha - we will catch out those who don't know the rules".
I initially thought this would be bad because of the probable perils.
Then again the odds of a terrible result are 1/72. Losing the odd wound isn't as much of a problem when you have a mechanic to get them back. The same potentially applies to Yvraine.

I wonder if there are some hidden gems. Its easy to take things that are good (Scat bikes, Warp Spiders etc) and say if they can shoot twice they will be even better.

Its possible something like say Neuro Disruptors which I think most would say are overcosted (even if they look good on paper) suddenly become really good if you reliably shoot twice every turn. Or fire dragons (which are good anyway). Scourges potentially become more reliable if you can get two rounds of shooting.

Tyel wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

People have pointed this out but I am fairly confident the pseudo-Codex trumps the BRB. I mean its a bit daft for them to explicitly say it gets Santic and then go "aha - we will catch out those who don't know the rules".
I initially thought this would be bad because of the probable perils.
Then again the odds of a terrible result are 1/72. Losing the odd wound isn't as much of a problem when you have a mechanic to get them back. The same potentially applies to Yvraine.

I wonder if there are some hidden gems. Its easy to take things that are good (Scat bikes, Warp Spiders etc) and say if they can shoot twice they will be even better.

Its possible something like say Neuro Disruptors which I think most would say are overcosted (even if they look good on paper) suddenly become really good if you reliably shoot twice every turn. Or fire dragons (which are good anyway). Scourges potentially become more reliable if you can get two rounds of shooting.

Also, Scourge have a 12" move, so if they are equipped with heatlances and get in close, they can get out really really easily, back into cover or out of LOS pretty easily, and they have a small footprint so the 7" range on SB isn't too painful.

Thats a good point about Yrvaine, sanctuary is pretty good, and GoF is always awesome, especially when you combat it with an extra move or the such... Clensing flame is probably worse than Storm Of Whispers but I am not sure.. the S3 really hurts it, but the AP2 is awesome.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

Yea I laughed when i read he had sanctic as a dicipline, I forgot as a demon he can't use it but was laughing at the prospect of him casting sanctuary and burning his legs on dangerous terrain such a derp moment for GW on that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

People have pointed this out but I am fairly confident the pseudo-Codex trumps the BRB. I mean its a bit daft for them to explicitly say it gets Santic and then go "aha - we will catch out those who don't know the rules".
I initially thought this would be bad because of the probable perils.
Then again the odds of a terrible result are 1/72. Losing the odd wound isn't as much of a problem when you have a mechanic to get them back. The same potentially applies to Yvraine.

I wonder if there are some hidden gems. Its easy to take things that are good (Scat bikes, Warp Spiders etc) and say if they can shoot twice they will be even better.

Its possible something like say Neuro Disruptors which I think most would say are overcosted (even if they look good on paper) suddenly become really good if you reliably shoot twice every turn. Or fire dragons (which are good anyway). Scourges potentially become more reliable if you can get two rounds of shooting.

We don't have the book in hand yet (most of us) but we have seen his full data slate and he has no illicit permission to use sanctic as a demon lol. Beyond that it is really stupid to give a demon that feeds on souls Sanctic. Not sure I'd want to run sanctic though, perils on any double which could really screw him and some of the powers are terrible on him. Hammer hand isn't real useful, gate openly sucks when he already does it without scatter banishment is super situational, purge soul is bad. Really your looking at sanctuary which hilariously could hurt him or cleansing flame. I'd stick with revenant and cast that spell that mauls Leonardo DiCaprio with an astral bear

 Lurker wrote:


This is taken from the Harlequin thread that I just resurrected and comes from the perspective of someone who wants to primarily run Harlequins.

Personally, the loss of run+charge that you get from a straight masque detatchmeant (the Harlequin CAD type formation) seems too much. You can get that by running a Cegorath's Revenge formation, but then you are paying for a whole bunch of stuff that you might not need or want.

Seemingly, anything you could do before for Halreuqins and an allied CAD you can do now. The only two upshots I see:
1) the pseudo 3rd edition consolidation from combat into combat that Soulburst can provide after destroying an enemy unit.
2) larger troops hitching lifts in Raiders

I don't know if these outweigh the tax of taking a Cegorath's Revenge formation or the loss of taking just 'plain' Harlequins in a Ynari CAD when you can get run+charge from a normal Masque detachment.

Yes, you lose run+charge unless you run Jest or Revenge. My first list is going to be mainly focused around a bit of experimentation.

So far, I'm considering a Revenge formation with 2 Starweaver squads of harlies, 1 anti-infantry Raider squad with seer and jester, Imriam and the Blades of Fate, and then the CAD portion filled out with a min unit of scatbikes, an autarch with bike+mask+shard joining either reavers or Blades, Raider and 6 Reavers in FA, and a big 15-wych blob, which will hopefully advance with Imriam and a MoS seer and be relatively protected while trying to stay within Soulburst range of the transports, one of which will inevitably go down early hopefully giving them a nice double move. Use Wytches as Anvil, Harlequins as Hammer, and use the threat of Soulburst to split off solo ICs to be more useful.

The big downside of Revenge in my experience has been the vulnerability of the ICs, not the cost. If I want to run primarily harlies, if I have Soulburst i don't mind splitting ICs as long as I keep them within 7" of a threatening squad. that way I hope to get more mileage out of the Death Jester.

I know the old standards are going to end up optimal, but I think I'm going to spend a long time testing out oddball units like the wych blob and see how they do.

Thats actually a clever tactic, hadn't thought about that.

I collect Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlies...so this book is amazing for me. Being able to use all three codex without the juggling of 'tax' units and transport restrictions is going to be amazing.

I'm not entirely sold on the new triumvirate rules. They look...ok? Kinda expensive for what they do though. Revenant discipline doesn't look particularly amazing - especially combined with the double perils thing.

The REAL standouts here are going to be a couple of combos.

WWP Wraithguard being able to soulburst when they come on, shooting two units is amazing.
Warp Spiders doing the same, and losing battle focus doesn't hurt them too much given their huge mobility.
Free access to shadowseers, artifacts of cruelty makes the leadership circus bomb very easy to build.
That Artifact which gives FNP, EW and IWND to a model seems rubbish, given you lose IC....but, if you take it on a farseer as part of a Seer council, it doesn't matter. Seer council rules mean the farseers cannot leave the warlocks and must form a single unit anyway, so that's awesome. Shadowseers grant H&R, Veil and Move through cover (flipbelts), buffing seer council even more! Losing BF for the council doesn't mean anything.. But being able to assault two units (or more through multi-charge) is pretty amazing.

Do people think that Inarim's Spectre will be usable with the Reborn Warhost? He's not on the list of units, but he's essentially an upgraded Death jester.

The Warlord traits are pretty baller. Selecting Psychic powers if flatout amazing. (yes, my farseer will take invisbility, fortune and doom. - thanks).

Here's a fun combo when you get to pick your powers (1/3 games):

1) Grab a squad of wraith guard
2) Insert DE Archon w/WWP for no scatter deep strike
3) Also have your friend the farseer in that squad
4) Farseer picks perfect timing + invis + gate
4) After demolishing 1-2 squads, proceed on your next turn to use gate of infinity
5) Arrive wherever you want and murder 1-2 more squads

Cent star has nothing on this! Except more reliable durability. And doesn't need to hope they roll perfect powers.

Belly wrote:
I collect Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlies...so this book is amazing for me. Being able to use all three codex without the juggling of 'tax' units and transport restrictions is going to be amazing.

I'm not entirely sold on the new triumvirate rules. They look...ok? Kinda expensive for what they do though. Revenant discipline doesn't look particularly amazing - especially combined with the double perils thing.

The REAL standouts here are going to be a couple of combos.

WWP Wraithguard being able to soulburst when they come on, shooting two units is amazing.
Warp Spiders doing the same, and losing battle focus doesn't hurt them too much given their huge mobility.
Free access to shadowseers, artifacts of cruelty makes the leadership circus bomb very easy to build.
That Artifact which gives FNP, EW and IWND to a model seems rubbish, given you lose IC....but, if you take it on a farseer as part of a Seer council, it doesn't matter. Seer council rules mean the farseers cannot leave the warlocks and must form a single unit anyway, so that's awesome. Shadowseers grant H&R, Veil and Move through cover (flipbelts), buffing seer council even more! Losing BF for the council doesn't mean anything.. But being able to assault two units (or more through multi-charge) is pretty amazing.

Do people think that Inarim's Spectre will be usable with the Reborn Warhost? He's not on the list of units, but he's essentially an upgraded Death jester.

The Warlord traits are pretty baller. Selecting Psychic powers if flatout amazing. (yes, my farseer will take invisbility, fortune and doom. - thanks).

Inriam, BoF, etc all stipulate that they can replace their equivalents in a Formation/Masque detachment, right? If so, the only way you can get them in is through a formation.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

Remember, you can summon him on their turn. Which lets you charge on yours.

 luke1705 wrote:
Here's a fun combo when you get to pick your powers (1/3 games):

1) Grab a squad of wraith guard
2) Insert DE Archon w/WWP for no scatter deep strike
3) Also have your friend the farseer in that squad
4) Farseer picks perfect timing + invis + gate
4) After demolishing 1-2 squads, proceed on your next turn to use gate of infinity
5) Arrive wherever you want and murder 1-2 more squads

Cent star has nothing on this! Except more reliable durability. And doesn't need to hope they roll perfect powers.

Perfect timing isn't really needed. Scythes obviously ignore it, and the wraithcannons are more suitable for single model units...where I usually just plan on rolling a 6. Guide/prescience may be better. Forewarning's good too.

I'm thinking a Freakshow Deathstar. ('Freakstar?')

From a Reborn Warhost detachment:
Seer Council (Telepathy Farseer/Runes Farseer)
Visarch
Succubus with WWP, Armor of Misery
Shadowseer (mask of Secrets)

An Corsair detachment might not go amiss either, with an allied Dreamer giving them the possibility to teleport hither and yon across the battlefied.

Belly wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Here's a fun combo when you get to pick your powers (1/3 games):

1) Grab a squad of wraith guard
2) Insert DE Archon w/WWP for no scatter deep strike
3) Also have your friend the farseer in that squad
4) Farseer picks perfect timing + invis + gate
4) After demolishing 1-2 squads, proceed on your next turn to use gate of infinity
5) Arrive wherever you want and murder 1-2 more squads

Cent star has nothing on this! Except more reliable durability. And doesn't need to hope they roll perfect powers.

Perfect timing isn't really needed. Scythes obviously ignore it, and the wraithcannons are more suitable for single model units...where I usually just plan on rolling a 6. Guide/prescience may be better. Forewarning's good too.

I'm sure there are situations where both have their merit.

I wonder if there are any cheap suicide squad models that can reliably give you more extra actions? We don't have access to any units that don't give up VP when they die, do we?

 Galef wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
... And since the Avatar is a daemon, doesn't that mean it can't take of santic?

Wow. Way to go GW. There's a derp moment if ever there was one.

-

Specific codex > Rule book general rule.

If it says Avatar can use 'Daemonology (Santic)', then it can cast Santic. Pretty nifty if you as me...

It's a bummer that we won't be able to spam out DE vipers/raiders for Harliquin's rides...

 luke1705 wrote:

Belly wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Here's a fun combo when you get to pick your powers (1/3 games):

1) Grab a squad of wraith guard
2) Insert DE Archon w/WWP for no scatter deep strike
3) Also have your friend the farseer in that squad
4) Farseer picks perfect timing + invis + gate
4) After demolishing 1-2 squads, proceed on your next turn to use gate of infinity
5) Arrive wherever you want and murder 1-2 more squads

Cent star has nothing on this! Except more reliable durability. And doesn't need to hope they roll perfect powers.

Perfect timing isn't really needed. Scythes obviously ignore it, and the wraithcannons are more suitable for single model units...where I usually just plan on rolling a 6. Guide/prescience may be better. Forewarning's good too.

I'm sure there are situations where both have their merit.

I wonder if there are any cheap suicide squad models that can reliably give you more extra actions? We don't have access to any units that don't give up VP when they die, do we?

Not that i'm aware of. Something like a deep striking venom with Blasterborn or even just Kabalites would do it. Those paper planes die so easily, and are such a juicy target. Have deepstrike aswel, so dropping own down next to the WWP unit is easy. You could even DS that venom first, and place the unit after you know if/where the venom scatters.

Actually I'm wondering if a few solo chimera might be worthwhile. 10 points a squad, could cap an objective if need be. Could also get pretty close on turn 2 if there's any BLOS in between, but sadly no deep strike. Generally speaking, you might give up a few kill points early/mid game, but you'll always get a free action of some kind as long as you keep it close to a unit if they kill it. 10 points and a kill point for me to shoot my wraith knight during your turn? OK deal

 luke1705 wrote:
Actually I'm wondering if a few solo chimera might be worthwhile. 10 points a squad, could cap an objective if need be. Could also get pretty close on turn 2 if there's any BLOS in between, but sadly no deep strike. Generally speaking, you might give up a few kill points early/mid game, but you'll always get a free action of some kind as long as you keep it close to a unit if they kill it. 10 points and a kill point for me to shoot my wraith knight during your turn? OK deal

Real space raider detachment:

Lahmean
Lahmean

5 warriors
5 wariors

1 kyhmera
1 kyhmera
1 kyhmera
1 kyhmera
1 kyhmera
1 kyhmera

160 pts

Gives you 10 MSU units to Soul Burst of from and harass/movement block etc etc Just tack it onto the Reborn detachment and profit. Basically if you shoot a unit of say Warp spiders at an enemy hoping to wipe them and fail, in the assault phase jetpack move them closer and send in a sacrificial dog. They kill the dog, you trigger another free shooting shooting attack to finish off the target.

Wow I bet you could even use a wraith knights stomps to gain free triggers. Assault a target you can kill (a vehicle works) then start stomping, flip a template onto a khymera or better yet a beast master since it can't save, immediately assault another target.

 nintura wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

Remember, you can summon him on their turn. Which lets you charge on yours.

I missed that! Also, can the Yncarne bounce around the board, or is she only summoned once a game? I assume its the former, because of the "Even if she is in reserves" phrase.

The Yrvaine really doesn't seem worth it, she cots too farseers for less effectiveness and no ability to take bikes. Thoughts on how to use her?

One idea i had on the rumour thread

Ally in some Inq henchmen, 3 acolytes 12pts.... tasty soul blast treats...

could model them as DE slaves, it wouldn't take them long to put 2 and 2 together

 gummyofallbears wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Thoughts on the Revenant discipline?

It seems like the only worthwhile thing to take on the Yncarne because it's gonna be sitting there doing nothing for at least a turn, so some shooting is good... And it can't take off santic (although sanctuary would be awesome)

Remember, you can summon him on their turn. Which lets you charge on yours.

I missed that! Also, can the Yncarne bounce around the board, or is she only summoned once a game? I assume its the former, because of the "Even if she is in reserves" phrase.

The Yrvaine really doesn't seem worth it, she cots too farseers for less effectiveness and no ability to take bikes. Thoughts on how to use her?

Everytime something dies, you can move the Yncarne to where they stood. But you cannot charge this turn.

 Red Corsair wrote:


Real space raider detachment:

Wow I bet you could even use a wraith knights stomps to gain free triggers. Assault a target you can kill (a vehicle works) then start stomping, flip a template onto a khymera or better yet a beast master since it can't save, immediately assault another target.

You don't even need the Raider detachment. I just grabbed 3 solo khymera squads as my fast attack choices from the detachment since my warp spider needs were filled with the Aspect Host. And tbh, I don't want to give up TOO many kill points all in one turn. Especially since my army in particular won't deploy very much, with 3 warp spider squads and a 10 man blob of wraith guard all coming in from deep strike reserve.....hmm maybe it's worth getting some sort of reserves manipulation. Anything cheaper than comms relay on a bunker?