Will Roboute have authority over the chapters

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**Freddy Kruger**

I can imagine Rowboat Girlyman NOT wanting other chapters to follow him. While he was instrumental in developing the 'codex' that all space marines use, he'd be bitterly disappointed that some chapters (including his own!) Follow it to the letter, rather than its intended purpose of laying out a guideline and allowing a marine to use his own initiative and training to complete an objective rather than following a set template that may not be the best, but is used because the codex says so.

Essentially this is much more apparent in the space marine video game, where the protagonist regularly uses non codex methods to get missions done, but actually following the vision of what Rowboat wanted it to be used for in the first place.

I can invision lots and lots of in fluff rage from various chapters being told by Girlyman: 'ITS ESSENTIALLY GUIDELINES NOT RULES YOU DENSE MELON-FETHERS, USE YOUR BIOLOGICALY ENHANCED BRAINS TO WORK OUT A PRIBLEM, NOT THE CODEX!' or words to that extent...

**BrianDavion**

Freddy Kruger wrote:
I can imagine Rowboat Girlyman NOT wanting other chapters to follow him. While he was instrumental in developing the 'codex' that all space marines use, he'd be bitterly disappointed that some chapters (including his own!) Follow it to the letter, rather than its intended purpose of laying out a guideline and allowing a marine to use his own initiative and training to complete an objective rather than following a set template that may not be the best, but is used because the codex says so.

Essentially this is much more apparent in the space marine video game, where the protagonist regularly uses non codex methods to get missions done, but actually following the vision of what Rowboat wanted it to be used for in the first place.

I can invision lots and lots of in fluff rage from various chapters being told by Girlyman: 'ITS ESSENTIALLY GUIDELINES NOT RULES YOU DENSE MELON-FETHERS, USE YOUR BIOLOGICALY ENHANCED BRAINS TO WORK OUT A PRIBLEM, NOT THE CODEX!' or words to that extent...

the video game was an AWEFUL depiction of the Ultramarines, I mean apparently jumping out of a thunderhawk with a jump pack is against the codex Astartes despite Jetpack troops all ahving deep strike to represent just such a capability.

**Bobthehero**

I think it's the part about jumping on another ship/in the middle of enemy fire

**Therion**

Some pretty impressive butthurt in this thread. I skimmed through most of it, but found nothing that furthers the discussion.

I replied to someone who had no understanding of even the most rudimentary military structures or concepts, but still tried to apply them to a fictional universe where a god has been resurrected to lead armies of superhuman soldiers in a desperate battle for humankind's survival. The responses can be summarized with 'You aren't the only person in the world who has served (extremely irrelevant, and not only because the person I replied to hasn't)' and '<here's another very bad analogy>'. It's incredible how people feel the need to explain everything with awful analogies. Just stop making them.

I brought real world armed forces into the discussion because in our suspension of disbelief, we still assume that standard practices apply. That doesn't mean that Trump is an eternal god, US and UK armed forces are loyalist Space Marine Legions, and that WW2 was basically just like fighting one of Abaddon's Black Crusades. I don't even know if you guys are being serious at this point with this stuff.

Carry on.

**Talizvar**

So then the codex astartes he would consider guidelines?

Considering most laws and rules in the 40k universe tends to be punishable by death if contrary to them, so this seems unlikely from a "fluff" viewpoint.
I keep imagining a Judge Dredd kind of day in the life of the Imperial citizen.

The "chain of command" had been changed permanently.
I am unsure how my favored Black Templars would feel about being ordered about by Roboute other than he is their "god's" son.
Plenty of evidence they can go wrong so one would think a more "arm's length" approach would be used.
They more-so than other chapters have deviated hugely from his code but decided to take the hard path: to always take the fight to the enemy.
They too would consider his "commands" more like "guidelines".

It is an opinion and a fictional universe to boot so getting too serious arguing this would be lacking perspective BUT each world laid down by authors try to formulate a feel or a means of how it works so it is an interesting intellectual exorcise on "what would happen if...".

Would the coming of Roboute herald more primarchs to appear?
Would the chaos gods plot some means to try to corrupt him or at least bring him low?
Would the high lords of terra include him in their council or try to shunt him off to the side?
Do the inquisition try to engage him in their plans or keep a careful eye on him?
What are the circumstances of his return? How would that be viewed by the Imperium as a whole?
So Roboute returns, what now? What plans does he have to "make the imperium great again?".

**Melissia**

Like I said, De Jure he would not necessarily have any authority over them. He would however have a lot of "soft" power due to his prestige as a primarch.

**Waaghboss Grobnub**

IMO,

i think some people here heavily, if not extremely underestimate the Alpha aspect a Primarch has.

Many a space marine during the HH felt the urge to bend the knee to ANY primarch upon laying eyes upon one. Disobeying an order from a primarch took every bit of willpower to do so unless they were accustomed to being in the precense of one on a regular basis. Like for example, a honour guard or chapter master function.

I think, that if Rouboute just flicks his fingers the vast majority of chapters come running screaming yes daddy, please daddy, command me daddy!

And the high lords of terra would probably just gak their pants so hard that Mars will be having trouble supplying the imperial palace with enough diapers. Just read the beast arises. When Vulkan stepped into the room, hell even a chapter master, most didnt even dare speak up. Vulkans sheer precense was enough to silence even the most highest of lords.

Yes he split up the legions, because at the time the shock of betrayal was increadibly fresh and the fear for a new betrayal was big. But drastic times call for drastic measures. I think he will at least for a short while, until terra is safe reform to legion strength under his own command. I think that after terra is safe he will dispatch multiple chapters to multiple warzones to deal with the biggest threats and the start spreading out in a secure manner.

But hey, in a few weeks we know more.

**Mellow**

What happens in a few weeks?

All UM successors will bend the knee to their gene sire.

But he won't reform his legion. That's against everything he wanted since the end of the HH.

**Melissia**

Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
IMO,

i think some people here heavily, if not extremely underestimate the Alpha aspect a Primarch has.

Probably because most people who talk about "alpha" (especially vis a vis "alpha male", the most common way it's used) are nothing more than boring armchair psychologists spouting a heaping load of grox manure trying to make themselves feel better about themselves.

The Marines of the 31st Millennium were trained to bow down to the Primarchs by the Emperor's guidance. The Marines of the 41st Millennium have never seen one nor been given such training. Though there are some that no doubt would, due to the psychic grandeur of each of the primarchs, I don't think a particularly huge number would-- at least not immediately. Ten thousand years of Imperial politics would likely mean that a newly awakened Primarch pushing for control over the various chapters immediately would likely be seen as a bald-faced power grab and incite more than a few negative feelings and connotations based off of the lived history of the various chapters.

**BrianDavion**

Melissia wrote:
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
IMO,

i think some people here heavily, if not extremely underestimate the Alpha aspect a Primarch has.

Probably because most people who talk about "alpha" (especially vis a vis "alpha male", the most common way it's used) are nothing more than boring armchair psychologists spouting a heaping load of grox manure trying to make themselves feel better about themselves.

The Marines of the 31st Millennium were trained to bow down to the Primarchs by the Emperor's guidance. The Marines of the 41st Millennium have never seen one nor been given such training. Though there are some that no doubt would, due to the psychic grandeur of each of the primarchs, I don't think a particularly huge number would-- at least not immediately. Ten thousand years of Imperial politics would likely mean that a newly awakened Primarch pushing for control over the various chapters immediately would likely be seen as a bald-faced power grab and incite more than a few negative feelings and connotations based off of the lived history of the various chapters.

It's not training Melissia, it's a psychalogical effect that's been noted a few times in the novels. it makes sense too, the Primarchs where created to be the ultimate generals. much has been noted of the sheer force of charisma they have.

**gummyofallbears**

Therion wrote:
rawne2510 wrote:I can tell you straight up if President Trump tried to tell a British unit to start doing stuff off his own back without going through the Prime Minister and Military chiefs he would get told to FO as well. You are talking gak if you think any different and you think that current military context works any different.

The reason allies work together is because of the agreements made before hand. Gulliman wouldn´t be stupid enough to just order other chapters to do his bidding because he understand tactics and the art of diplomacy.

Will he have authority over other chapter? Only if he asks their leaders if he can (Of which very few would decline). It would be like saying that all the chaos legions would follow Magnus as he is a Primarch (I very much doubt they would)

Firstly, I have actually served in the military. Fired pistols, assault rifles, rocket propelled grenades, thrown grenades. Taken orders. Given orders. This is while you were playing with toy soldiers. I know a little bit about the military.

Secondly, your analogy is tragically bad. There is no Planet Earth spanning Imperium that protects its citizens from extragalactic predators and multidimensional gods. You can't even go there. It'll never work. What you should've tried to argue is that for example the Navy Seals don't need to take orders from the Delta Force. Instead you went the 'I'm twelve and proud of it' route and talked about Trump and what not as if there's even the slightest connection between some piece of paper pact between the UK and the US and the Space Marine chapters jointly defending humankind from extinction. Shamefully bad attempt by you, really. Roboute Guilliman is an eternal demigod, and Space Marines are born to fight and die, and for them the cream always rises to the top. The most qualified warrior is in charge, because it's not about ego, it's about winning.

What you should've understood from my message is that the Imperium's war machine is an army much like any other. There's navy in there, army, special forces units, reserves, and so on. You're still on the same side, and when the supreme demigod general, the son of your immortal emperor, the most succesful, lauded, loved, respected and feared general of the past ten millennia, gives orders, people take them, and in the army you don't 'ask anyone nicely'. You tell them what to do if you have the position to do so, and people do what they are told, because to do anything else, for example have a 'debate' about it, would be ineffective and outright dangerous for everyone. This is a fact you'll probably never understand.

Good for you. It is not rare that I thank Servicemen, as they deserve it, and usually have my utmost respect, except for when they basically brag about their service. Tons of other people here have served, you're not the only one.

**Maniac_nmt**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Considering Roboute divided the Legions into Chapters specifically so that someone like him could never wield the full power of a Legion again. He'll only have control of the Ultramarines, at least at first. Successor Smurfs will probably try flocking back. While I imagine other Chapters will likely listen to him on some matters.

I mean he could always change his mind after seeing the state of the Imperium.

40k could benefit from a non-Chaos/non-Imperial human faction. Have Roboute take the Ultramarines, successors, and a few other first founding chapters and go rogue...

**Melissia**

BrianDavion wrote:
It's not training Melissia

Hypnotherapy is part of training for Astartes and Inquisitorial agents.

**BrianDavion**

Melissia wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
It's not training Melissia

Hypnotherapy is part of training for Astartes and Inquisitorial agents.

I'm aware, I'm suggesting the reaction to Primarchs isn't part of that.

**Spetulhu**

Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
Many a space marine during the HH felt the urge to bend the knee to ANY primarch upon laying eyes upon one. Disobeying an order from a primarch took every bit of willpower to do so unless they were accustomed to being in the precense of one on a regular basis.

So he's just going to take a tour to all the 1,000 Chapter HQs (planet-bound or fleet-based) and make every Chapter Master bend knee to him? How long would that take with IoM warp drives? The next 10K years?

**ProtoClone**

Spetulhu wrote:
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
Many a space marine during the HH felt the urge to bend the knee to ANY primarch upon laying eyes upon one. Disobeying an order from a primarch took every bit of willpower to do so unless they were accustomed to being in the precense of one on a regular basis.

So he's just going to take a tour to all the 1,000 Chapter HQs (planet-bound or fleet-based) and make every Chapter Master bend knee to him? How long would that take with IoM warp drives? The next 10K years?

Nope. With the severity of these battles all chapters are already aware and mobilizing forces.

Soon as RG shows up, the other chapters will mobilize to come see the return of a primarch. Word will spread in the IoM fast and the chapters will follow him into battle.

**jhe90**

ProtoClone wrote:
Spetulhu wrote:
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
Many a space marine during the HH felt the urge to bend the knee to ANY primarch upon laying eyes upon one. Disobeying an order from a primarch took every bit of willpower to do so unless they were accustomed to being in the precense of one on a regular basis.

So he's just going to take a tour to all the 1,000 Chapter HQs (planet-bound or fleet-based) and make every Chapter Master bend knee to him? How long would that take with IoM warp drives? The next 10K years?

Nope. With the severity of these battles all chapters are already aware and mobilizing forces.

Soon as RG shows up, the other chapters will mobilize to come see the return of a primarch. Word will spread in the IoM fast and the chapters will follow him into battle.

Once they get word its likely a representative will be sent sure. even if just a gesture for Honours sake.
of all people they could respect, Bickering high lords, inqusitors who interfere, or a Emparors son.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Direct control?

No. Unlikely.

Will most Chapters take heed of his advice and requests to deploy? Almost certainly, I'd imagine. He's still a Primarch after all.

**Frazzled**

ProtoClone wrote:
Spetulhu wrote:
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
Many a space marine during the HH felt the urge to bend the knee to ANY primarch upon laying eyes upon one. Disobeying an order from a primarch took every bit of willpower to do so unless they were accustomed to being in the precense of one on a regular basis.

So he's just going to take a tour to all the 1,000 Chapter HQs (planet-bound or fleet-based) and make every Chapter Master bend knee to him? How long would that take with IoM warp drives? The next 10K years?

Nope. With the severity of these battles all chapters are already aware and mobilizing forces.

Soon as RG shows up, the other chapters will mobilize to come see the return of a primarch. Word will spread in the IoM fast and the chapters will follow him into battle.

COnsidering timelines related to astrotelepaths (the fastest way) taking years it won't be that fast...

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Maniac_nmt wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Considering Roboute divided the Legions into Chapters specifically so that someone like him could never wield the full power of a Legion again. He'll only have control of the Ultramarines, at least at first. Successor Smurfs will probably try flocking back. While I imagine other Chapters will likely listen to him on some matters.

I mean he could always change his mind after seeing the state of the Imperium.

40k could benefit from a non-Chaos/non-Imperial human faction. Have Roboute take the Ultramarines, successors, and a few other first founding chapters and go rogue...

If Big Blue splits from the main line Imperials, I doubt his faction would be non-Imperium, probably more of a returning to their roots Imperium, based out of the Realm of Ultramar.

**ProtoClone**

Frazzled wrote:
ProtoClone wrote:
Spetulhu wrote:
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
Many a space marine during the HH felt the urge to bend the knee to ANY primarch upon laying eyes upon one. Disobeying an order from a primarch took every bit of willpower to do so unless they were accustomed to being in the precense of one on a regular basis.

So he's just going to take a tour to all the 1,000 Chapter HQs (planet-bound or fleet-based) and make every Chapter Master bend knee to him? How long would that take with IoM warp drives? The next 10K years?

Nope. With the severity of these battles all chapters are already aware and mobilizing forces.

Soon as RG shows up, the other chapters will mobilize to come see the return of a primarch. Word will spread in the IoM fast and the chapters will follow him into battle.

COnsidering timelines related to astrotelepaths (the fastest way) taking years it won't be that fast...

As fast as is possible for them.