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 Kanluwen wrote:

As of right now, it's broken into:
Imperium
Chaos
Xenos

Eldar and Orks are currently in the same "Grand Alliance".

You're making the assumption that the organization of a website designed to inform/hype up new players is binding to rules and background in a similar way to AoS, despite the lack of the word "Grand Alliance" anywhere on said page.

That is... a very large assumption.

 Formerly Wu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

As of right now, it's broken into:
Imperium
Chaos
Xenos

Eldar and Orks are currently in the same "Grand Alliance".

You're making the assumption that the organization of a website designed to inform/hype up new players is binding to rules and background in a similar way to AoS, despite the lack of the word "Grand Alliance" anywhere on said page.

That is... a very large assumption.

Well' it's the only thing we've got so far. "CHOOSE YOUR SIDE" is a heavy implication, especially considering how they structured factions in AoS.

The FAQ did make me giggle and it seems like the new GW is on the right track as far as community interaction goes. I haven't touched 40k in years and this might be just the right way to get me off of Infinity.

 Formerly Wu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

As of right now, it's broken into:
Imperium
Chaos
Xenos

Eldar and Orks are currently in the same "Grand Alliance".

You're making the assumption that the organization of a website designed to inform/hype up new players is binding to rules and background in a similar way to AoS, despite the lack of the word "Grand Alliance" anywhere on said page.

That is... a very large assumption.

It's not an unreasonable one though, given the way that things are written.

It's not like the Grand Alliances mean everyone works together and everything is sunshine and rainbows. Grand Alliance: Chaos has factions that would tear each other apart rather than work together, Order has the old Dark Elf factions which includes the Scourge Privateers who raid the various realms and take slaves.

And so on.

The site organization makes sense, because that's how the fluff divides stuff (Chaos, Imperium and Xenos). I don't believe, however, that all xenos will be clumped in a single group. Maybe Eldar flavors will.

 Roknar wrote:
God I hope they drastically change the psychic phase.

Thats the one thing I am not looking forward to. We will end up with AoS on release and three psychic powers to choose from, perhaps more balanced. But WAY WAY less fun.


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demontalons wrote:
Goodbye terrible chaos codex! Fingers crossed they fix the Tsons points cost........

They have had 10+ years to do that. What makes you think this year will be the year?

Well that's too bad. I wanted to weaponize all Howling Banshees as ammunition for my orks. Howling Banshees strapped with bombs for my tankbusta squad. Ammo for shock attack gun. Banshees strapped to rockits etc...

Not that I have anything against Howling Banshees. It's just that they will make all my ork weapons louder and we know how orks love louder weapons. The Banshees just need to scream as they rokkit towards the enemy.

Please can someone explain the AoS rules publications to me, so I can better understand what to expect with 40k?

I've never played AoS.

I know the original rules were 4 pages long and free.
I know there were warscrolls for each faction/unit, also free.
What does the GHB give you? Is it essential for playing the game?
What's a Battletome?
How do they release rules for new units (or even new factions, like the new Dwarves)?

I'd like to know what to expect.

As this is a guessing game here, I'll throw in. They're going to slim down all these side rules with the elimination of the codex and make each type - troops, elites, etc (and add Primarcks as it's own thing) have a set of rules and that's it. They'll redesign the universe so it will get a bit more desperate. Free rules? Welcome digital distribution. I hope they still support us old f*rts that don't have a smart phones or data slates (yes, there are some of us parchment and quill guys still around. Looks like I will need more printer cartridges.) Bet they still put out 'side rules' books for planes, terrain and strongholds. Obviously they have a new - and likely 'younger' crew - in game design who are perusing the web for opinions (thank you Dakkadakka). They are good in that they know if you don't change up the game regularly it will get stale, The models are still getting better (OMG, the details to paint...), and they hopefully will figure out what they're doing with all the oversized models. Interesting to see if D weapons get modified down. Reading between the words, "All the models we sell today will be supported". Heck, Cyphur's been out for years and we still don't know which codex he belongs to... Are Squats in?
I'm looking forward to the changes as long as they keep combat drugs and put the old ramshackle rule back in. The old Weird Boy rule where he can transform a character into something small would be nice, but unlikely. Well, gotta go list my codex (7 armies) in EBay's antique books section...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, wanna post guesses - over and under - how many pages the new rules will be?

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Please can someone explain the AoS rules publications to me, so I can better understand what to expect with 40k?

I've never played AoS.

I know the original rules were 4 pages long and free.
I know there were warscrolls for each faction/unit, also free.
What does the GHB give you? Is it essential for playing the game?
What's a Battletome?
How do they release rules for new units (or even new factions, like the new Dwarves)?

I'd like to know what to expect.

The GHB gives you points for you army for matched play, as well the allegiance battleline requirements, and some scenarios for matched play.

A battletome is like codex. It gives you bonus rules for your army like artefacts and allegiance abilities. It contains all of the unit rules, as well as a set of formations that give your army extra rules if you fulfil their requirements and pay the points cost for the formation.

New armies are released as so: The units are released on the GW website, where their rules are available. They also release a battletome which gives them their special rules, point allocations, and formation.

All of the points cost for those units are available for free on Scrollbuilder, the site that GW have officially co-opted from the community. There is also an App that has all of the warscrolls available, and for £1 a month you can subscribe to Azyr, the list build part of the app that lists the points costs for all of the units.

The bare minimum you need to play matched play is the free warscrolls available from GW's site, and the free points from the GW sponsored scrollbuilder site. You might need guidance from the General's Handbook for pre-sylvaneth army's battleline requirements, or the battletomes of slyvaneth onward armies, but the requirements are free on the scrollbuilder. You won't benefit from abilities or artefacts and so on, but you need only buy one battletome per army for that.

Campaign books have so far never supplemented the matched play rules, only added fluffy battalions for narrative and open.

There are obviously some issues with the timeline of books. The GHB will be updated this year and will probably have all of the current point costs in it, they will be invalidated by newer battletomes, but then it will be updated again, so the tomes and the GHB kinda leap-frog each other in terms of which is most up to date. As far as I can see it is the cheapest and most efficient way to get the rules out, without making it all free. I have successfully played about 10 games with my small Nurgle force without buying a single rule supplement, but I have bought the new Dwarves with their book. Nurgle will get a faction book eventually which will bring them up to scratch like Khorne and Tzeentch and I will likely buy that too,

I hope that is clear enough!

DynamicCalories wrote:

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Please can someone explain the AoS rules publications to me, so I can better understand what to expect with 40k?

I've never played AoS.

I know the original rules were 4 pages long and free.
I know there were warscrolls for each faction/unit, also free.
What does the GHB give you? Is it essential for playing the game?
What's a Battletome?
How do they release rules for new units (or even new factions, like the new Dwarves)?

I'd like to know what to expect.

The GHB gives you points for you army for matched play, as well the allegiance battleline requirements, and some scenarios for matched play.

A battletome is like codex. It gives you bonus rules for your army like artefacts and allegiance abilities. It contains all of the unit rules, as well as a set of formations that give your army extra rules if you fulfil their requirements and pay the points cost for the formation.

New armies are released as so: The units are released on the GW website, where their rules are available. They also release a battletome which gives them their special rules, point allocations, and formation.

All of the points cost for those units are available for free on Scrollbuilder, the site that GW have officially co-opted from the community. There is also an App that has all of the warscrolls available, and for £1 a month you can subscribe to Azyr, the list build part of the app that lists the points costs for all of the units.

The bare minimum you need to play matched play is the free warscrolls available from GW's site, and the free points from the GW sponsored scrollbuilder site. You might need guidance from the General's Handbook for pre-sylvaneth army's battleline requirements, or the battletomes of slyvaneth onward armies, but the requirements are free on the scrollbuilder. You won't benefit from abilities or artefacts and so on, but you need only buy one battletome per army for that.

Campaign books have so far never supplemented the matched play rules, only added fluffy battalions for narrative and open.

There are obviously some issues with the timeline of books. The GHB will be updated this year and will probably have all of the current point costs in it, they will be invalidated by newer battletomes, but then it will be updated again, so the tomes and the GHB kinda leap-frog each other in terms of which is most up to date. As far as I can see it is the cheapest and most efficient way to get the rules out, without making it all free. I have successfully played about 10 games with my small Nurgle force without buying a single rule supplement, but I have bought the new Dwarves with their book. Nurgle will get a faction book eventually which will bring them up to scratch like Khorne and Tzeentch and I will likely buy that too,

I hope that is clear enough!

Thanks!

So is it one Battletome per faction? Effectively just like the codexes currently? So we should still expect a codex per faction - just all new codexes.

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Thanks!

So is it one Battletome per faction? Effectively just like the codexes currently? So we should still expect a codex per faction - just all new codexes.

Yes. Each faction currently sits in one of 4 grand alliances, Order, Death, Destruction, Chaos. New Battletomes cover the individual factions and usually only confer a bonus if all of the army is from that faction.

But, there are (very old now) battletomes for the four main alliances that have their own allegiance rules for armies that are not mono-faction. Quite foten, in the case of Destruction especially, these mixed factions are quite powerful, and perform well. The meta for AoS from my knowledge of it is not particularly fixed, all sorts of armies play and rank in tournaments, although shooting is quite heavy at the moment.

If they've learned from AoS they will make codexes for each faction. They basically exist to further define armies, rather than totally re-write them. It means of course that certain armies suffer for a while (Death is not looking healthy) but they cannot be all things to all men. Death will get its time to shine, and the low cost and smaller faction sizes means changes can be much quicker now, and quick balancing fixes can be done through points updates rather than whole new codexes.

I would expect, on the whole, the 40k transition to be far smoother as it took GW a long time to find its feet with AoS, but the Sylvaneth books onward seem to be the format they've decided on, and they're very good in my opinion.

Table wrote:


They have had 10+ years to do that. What makes you think this year will be the year?

I'm holding onto hope; their position so far has been that they've involved and will keep involving tournament organizers in the game design part of the issue. It's my hope that those Tournament people impress up on the game designers that cool models aside, they actually need to be worth what their costed on the table top.

Will have to admit, I do love the tongue-in-cheek answers in the FAQ lie the "Why Should I trust you?".

I laughed because of the answer. They said "New Games Workshop tm"

And Emperor knows how copyrighting has never angered any guard fans.

I want to know where everyone is getting there Time Machines, because a lot of people I've spoke to or seen online seem to have 100% certainty that 40k is going tot become AoS with sci-fi.

Until more drops on exact rules and books come out, we have no clue what will really happen.

Yes we can take cues from what happened with Fantasy to AoS, but that isn't necessarily what will happen. Fantasy was a different beast. When AoS dropped a lot of people hated that it was a massive change and that they would have to buy new stuff. You don't have to buy it, and when I asked what new things they had bought for 8th ed fantasy, most of the local group admitted they hadn't bought any new models for about 5+ years. Yet expect to be given luxury treatment because they had bought armies already and decided they deserve more free stuff.

You can't expect things to happen your way if you don't put money into the company. At the end of the day you can still play 7th, or Horus Heresy. GW aren't sending out death squads to seize all your old material and books and forcing you to play new stuff. Yes they aren't producing the 7th ed codexes anymore, but they aren't producing 2nd ed ones still either.

It hasn't invalidated all your previous purchases, you haven't wasted money on stuff when a new edition drops. How many hours of painting and modelling has gone into an army, how many evenings spent having fun with mates playing and goofing around. They don't disappear with the old edition. Yes you might have to buy £100 worth of new books, but same goes for previous times rules were updated and you didn't lose those fond memories of the previous editions, but added new ones and new experiences and friends.

I've spent a lot on this hobby, but I feel it's paid back with lasting friendships, hours of games, all the painting and making my army mine. It's more than just pumping money at a game. It's a lifestyle we chose to do, and not one I'm going to throw away until I see what will become of it, and probably will still play for many more years to come.

I think they will very much try and retain 40k's status as more complex than AoS.

They simply want to make it so that it is easier to get into. A smaller core rule set with free rule cards for units so that people can buy anything they want and play within hours of buying a box - and these boxes will often work over multiple systems, like Shadow War.

A matched play system will then allow those new players to transition into the more complex organised play, with its own restrictions.

The biggest triumph of AoS is how modular it is in terms of rules and models. You can add as many or as few levels of complexity as you wish. You can even stick your hero units in Warhammer Quest. Soon, Shadespire will give you minis you can put in your AoS armies. I fully understand people's hesitations, but I do not think AoS is as bad as many people think it actually is.

I have joined this forum because for the first time since playing 2nd and 3rd edition as a kid, I am interested in getting back into 40k. The lower bracket of entry and the more nimble and adaptable ruleset is a god send for players like me. Tthe feeling I get from the AoS community is that GW have done a very good job of straddling the gap between players such as myself, and those who are interested in making strong, tournament viable lists. There is no insta-win list in AoS, and despite the more updated factions being more powerful overall, it has not stopped less supported factions from placing well.

What I really want to know is if they will be keeping the scale of the game the same, making it larger, or smaller. As of right now, it seems to take too much money and time invested to even want to create a new army.

Has there been any word on this at all? It would be nice if the amount of models on the table at the current 2,000 point game shrank just slightly to make it more manageable to get started again and attract new players.

 HANZERtank wrote:
It hasn't invalidated all your previous purchases, you haven't wasted money on stuff when a new edition drops. How many hours of painting and modelling has gone into an army, how many evenings spent having fun with mates playing and goofing around. They don't disappear with the old edition. Yes you might have to buy £100 worth of new books, but same goes for previous times rules were updated and you didn't lose those fond memories of the previous editions, but added new ones and new experiences and friends.

While I agree with everything you've said above, I think its important to remember one thing. Before each previous edition change, the same type of people also bitched unendingly about rumors and hear-say taken as the absolute word of God. Unfortunately, until 8th edition comes out, most online 40k communities will devolve into misguided temper tantrums and futile efforts to contain and redirect those temper tantrums. I can only hope for more burning armies!

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
What I really want to know is if they will be keeping the scale of the game the same, making it larger, or smaller. As of right now, it seems to take too much money and time invested to even want to create a new army.

Has there been any word on this at all? It would be nice if the amount of models on the table at the current 2,000 point game shrank just slightly to make it more manageable to get started again and attract new players.

People generally don't play 2,000 points. 1,850 is the go to points value (because that's what tournaments tend to use), but I usually play 1000 or 1500.

If you want fewer models, play a 500 point game.

There are no rules on how many points you should use.

Thats the one thing I am not looking forward to. We will end up with AoS on release and three psychic powers to choose from, perhaps more balanced. But WAY WAY less fun.

So long as I can actually use a single psyker without gimping myself I would feel better about the psyker system. As it is you either go big or go home when it comes to psykers and those that can either abuse it or have the most powerful formations for it tend to have fun with it.

The days of having a single librarian or sorcerer and still casting okay is the days I want to come back!

 Whittlesey40k wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
What I really want to know is if they will be keeping the scale of the game the same, making it larger, or smaller. As of right now, it seems to take too much money and time invested to even want to create a new army.

Has there been any word on this at all? It would be nice if the amount of models on the table at the current 2,000 point game shrank just slightly to make it more manageable to get started again and attract new players.

People generally don't play 2,000 points. 1,850 is the go to points value (because that's what tournaments tend to use), but I usually play 1000 or 1500.

If you want fewer models, play a 500 point game.

There are no rules on how many points you should use.

I haven't had somebody ask me if I wanted to play an 1850 game over a 2000 point game since Dakka Dakka was a brick and mortar store in New Hampshire. I just moved from Colorado to Texas, and while I was in Colorado, nobody really wanted anything to do with points levels below 2000. Unless you were playing the Heralds of Ruin version of Killteam. If you were to mention a 500 point game they looked down on you as a player and you didn't get games. I understand that the standard size varies based off your location, but so far trying to get groups to consider a smaller size of game has been quite a chore for me.

nordsturmking wrote:
hi

I think it shows they have learnd a lesson and it is a good sign.

What do you think about the new 8th edition FAQ?

https://warhammer40000.com/home/news/


So now we know for sure we are indeed getting 3 ways of playing the game. And the ruleset is going to be for free I really like that.

Its not an FAQ, its just a release anouncement in fancy format. We shall see what the FAQ's are like...

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Whittlesey40k wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
What I really want to know is if they will be keeping the scale of the game the same, making it larger, or smaller. As of right now, it seems to take too much money and time invested to even want to create a new army.

Has there been any word on this at all? It would be nice if the amount of models on the table at the current 2,000 point game shrank just slightly to make it more manageable to get started again and attract new players.

People generally don't play 2,000 points. 1,850 is the go to points value (because that's what tournaments tend to use), but I usually play 1000 or 1500.

If you want fewer models, play a 500 point game.

There are no rules on how many points you should use.

I haven't had somebody ask me if I wanted to play an 1850 game over a 2000 point game since Dakka Dakka was a brick and mortar store in New Hampshire. I just moved from Colorado to Texas, and while I was in Colorado, nobody really wanted anything to do with points levels below 2000. Unless you were playing the Heralds of Ruin version of Killteam. If you were to mention a 500 point game they looked down on you as a player and you didn't get games. I understand that the standard size varies based off your location, but so far trying to get groups to consider a smaller size of game has been quite a chore for me.

Oh, that sucks a bit. If you can find like minded people you'll be able to play with the number of models you want. I imagine if the 2000 point players want to use the same lists they'll just start playing 2500 or 3000 point games if the new points are higher anyway.

Good luck finding a game at the right points for you!!

Jancoran wrote:Its not an FAQ, its just a release anouncement in fancy format. We shall see what the FAQ's are like...

It's an announcement FAQ, not a rules FAQ. It happens a lot for products under development that have reached a point that marketing will be done. Name a computer game in existence and you'll find an FAQ that is meant to help people understand the product being developed. It's used to help people get hyped for the product and start setting pennies aside to purchase upon release. Most are pretty boring, though, and don't hype very well.

nordsturmking wrote:

Have you tried to kill a knight with a Tyranid list without GSC? I find it very difficult to do.

last time I played against Knights with Tyranids at 1850.. I managed to down 3 of them and won on VP

Just read the FAQ....

Ummm....pretty sure I'm not gonna be interested.


Three ways to play. Just what I've always wanted.

 jasper76 wrote:
Just read the FAQ....

Ummm....pretty sure I'm not gonna be interested.


Three ways to play. Just what I've always wanted.

Theres already 3 ways to play

Unbound
Bound
Narrative

The "new" 3 ways to play are

Open (no-points)
Narrative (points or no points revolves around a story or scenario)
Matched ("classic" 40k)

BomBomHotdog wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Just read the FAQ....

Ummm....pretty sure I'm not gonna be interested.


Three ways to play. Just what I've always wanted.

Theres already 3 ways to play

Unbound
Bound
Narrative

The "new" 3 ways to play are

Open (no-points)
Narrative (points or no points revolves around a story or scenario)
Matched ("classic" 40k)

Unbound and Bound are the same way to play. You can play an Unbound army against a Bound army using the same exact ruleset.

Narrative is just a friggin adjective...it is meaningless in terms of what rules you currently play with. You might as well say "big" and "small" games use two different sets of rules. Or that "fun" is a distinct type of game.

This new stuff is just more BS you have to negotiate with your opponent to get a game going.

And this is to mention nothing of all the new crap they JUST released and are immediately invalidating (specifically Gathering Storm, Imperial Agents and Chaos Legions).

They should have stopped publishing new materials months and months ago if they were going to do invalidate all the old books.

But they wanted your $$$$$, and now they want lots more. Shareholders first and foremost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I'm not bitter or anything

 Jancoran wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
hi

I think it shows they have learnd a lesson and it is a good sign.

What do you think about the new 8th edition FAQ?

https://warhammer40000.com/home/news/


So now we know for sure we are indeed getting 3 ways of playing the game. And the ruleset is going to be for free I really like that.

Its not an FAQ, its just a release anouncement in fancy format. We shall see what the FAQ's are like...

They called it an FAQ...

Just noticed that points will only be used in "Matched Play". So one can only assume your average PUG will be "I'll put whatever I want on the table, and you do the same."

Barf. This is why AoS is a joke. I didn't believe they do it, but they did it.

 jasper76 wrote:
Just noticed that points will only be used in "Matched Play". So one can only assume your average PUG will be "I'll put whatever I want on the table, and you do the same."

Barf. This is why AoS is a joke. I didn't believe they do it, but they did it.

You obviously have never played any AoS