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GodDamUser wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Just noticed that points will only be used in "Matched Play". So one can only assume your average PUG will be "I'll put whatever I want on the table, and you do the same."

Barf. This is why AoS is a joke. I didn't believe they do it, but they did it.

You obviously have never played any AoS

I tried. I got the starter set for 40 bucks, but no-one would play because of no points.

Players at my flgs stuck with the prior edition of WHFB, because no points and 4 pages of rules.

Some of us like complex games. I like points systems. It's one of the things that makes TT gaming fun for me.

You do relies there have been a lot of changes with AoS

Everyone agrees its initial release was no good, but now it plays quite well

Try having another go of it..

But I do like how you like 'complex' games.. the basic no points and deploy to someone says stops, put a lot of tactics into the whole deployment.. as you had to try and out counter your opponent and give yourself the advantage.. To me that added a lot of challenge to the game

GodDamUser wrote:
You do relies there have been a lot of changes with AoS

Everyone agrees its initial release was no good, but now it plays quite well

Try having another go of it

Well, if they added a points system, I applaud them for doing that.

But like I said, there's no local interest and in AoS. Personally, I get my TT fantasy itch from LOTR with a couple friends, and another friend runs games using an old D&D Battle System ruleset, which is pretty cool because it can be adapted for almost anything you can dream up.

 jasper76 wrote:
Just noticed that points will only be used in "Matched Play". So one can only assume your average PUG will be "I'll put whatever I want on the table, and you do the same."

Barf. This is why AoS is a joke. I didn't believe they do it, but they did it.

Indeed. The sky if falling. Please retire to your designated emergency shelter. The rest of us will just stay here and discuss what the world will be like after Plastic Armageddon.

 jasper76 wrote:
Just read the FAQ....

Ummm....pretty sure I'm not gonna be interested.


Three ways to play. Just what I've always wanted.

If you have Tau, GK, or CSM, I'll be more than happy to take them off your hands.

 Vryce wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Just read the FAQ....

Ummm....pretty sure I'm not gonna be interested.


Three ways to play. Just what I've always wanted.

If you have Tau, GK, or CSM, I'll be more than happy to take them off your hands.

I got 2 of those 3, but my little gaming group is sticking with 7th so I'm hanging on to everything.

I wonder how many fantasy duders, that were dedicated to sticking to 8th edition, are still sticking to their guns.. or have moved on to AoS

I'll note that I'll sincerely miss this board and the Tactics board though. I won't have anything current to add :(

As they say, it been real!

 jasper76 wrote:
I'll note that I'll sincerely miss this board and the Tactics board though. I won't have anything current to add :(

As they say, it been real!

I love your ability to make informed decisions

What a group. They decided to stick with 7th without knowing anything concrete about 8th.

Admirable haste in decision making.

GodDamUser wrote:
I wonder how many fantasy duders, that were dedicated to sticking to 8th edition, are still sticking to their guns.. or have moved on to AoS

The guy who went and burnt his Dark Elf army on youtube is playing Stormcast.

I am kindof tempted to have a codex bonfire, but unfortunately, I mostly moved to digital :-)

 commander dante wrote:
Ahh i dunno
As long as i can field 3 Kytan Deamon Engines (Replacing Lord of Skulls) in a LEGAL Competitive list, ill be happy

But the "Your books are now Obsolete" is a HUGE slap in the face

I guess all formations are gone. Decurion, Gladius and whatnot.
Not a bad thing.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Ahh i dunno
As long as i can field 3 Kytan Deamon Engines (Replacing Lord of Skulls) in a LEGAL Competitive list, ill be happy

But the "Your books are now Obsolete" is a HUGE slap in the face

I guess all formations are gone. Decurion, Gladius and whatnot.
Not a bad thing.

It is in fact the single most refreshing thing I can imagine out of an 8E thus far.

"every warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition".

I see what you did there. Goodbye Valkyrie Vendetta.
-I hope it won't be the case but you know the saying: hope for the best and expect the worst.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Ahh i dunno
As long as i can field 3 Kytan Deamon Engines (Replacing Lord of Skulls) in a LEGAL Competitive list, ill be happy

But the "Your books are now Obsolete" is a HUGE slap in the face

I guess all formations are gone. Decurion, Gladius and whatnot.
Not a bad thing.

It is in fact the single most refreshing thing I can imagine out of an 8E thus far.

True.
But I guess it won't last long and GW will release new supplementary books again. Just for money making.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Ahh i dunno
As long as i can field 3 Kytan Deamon Engines (Replacing Lord of Skulls) in a LEGAL Competitive list, ill be happy

But the "Your books are now Obsolete" is a HUGE slap in the face

I guess all formations are gone. Decurion, Gladius and whatnot.
Not a bad thing.

It is in fact the single most refreshing thing I can imagine out of an 8E thus far.

True.
But I guess it won't last long and GW will release new supplementary books again. Just for money making.

assuming they follow the way AOS did formations I doubt it'll be that b ig an issue, no one would even blink if people had to shell out say 300 points to run a battle company gladius. And no one found the one with just a demi-company exciting.

Scimmed the last few pages so appolgise if someone already said. However, my 2 cents:

The new 40k rules (because free) will be simplified a lot.

There will be no armour values etc (Its free so will prob be like AoS and under 5 pages, for basic game rules)
Prob lose initiative (to be replaced by individual unit movement back again) and a break point will be instigated like AoS over Ld. Moreover, unit sizes I think will be adapted to the Aos model (sells more models).

Everything will have wounds (Less rules, less mess). Specialised weapons will have a rend (Armour Pierce Value) like AoS and will instigate a mortal (Catastrophic) wound system (example: for D cause -3 APV all the time and cause D6 catastrophic wounds on any role of 6 to wound. Melta cause -3 APV all the time and cause an extra catastrophic wound on any role of 5+ to wound etc...). Catastrophic= no save (except invul) APV = minus to an armour save. Something to that extant.

The initial/basic rules will be free but then you will pay $2.99 for special formation/detachment rules each or $29.99 etc for a book on that faction (Eg. all Detachments/formations, units and their costs for Orks). Then maybe pay like $49.99 for the current entire Imperium rules for example, something like that. This will update etc etc (make money in small lots then less in one chunk).

My initial thoughts. Will be good cause if mostly online is way easier and if can buy in small lots (eg the rules/formations etc), will be more convenient too (They will still have some paperback but woefully more expensive). Don't have to wait for "out of stock" etc. I buy all my codex's online now days anyway (don't have room or want to lug around a million books) so will be so much easier if like AoS.

I will be happy to see armour ratings go in comparison to monstrous creatures (things will just get a good save, high wounds or an invul save etc to balance), will balance the game so much more.

Just some quick thoughts. Have to wait and see. However, if get an app like Aos has will be good (espec for those of us with alot of different armies).

Cheers,
SC

 Runic wrote:
What a group. They decided to stick with 7th without knowing anything concrete about 8th.

Admirable haste in decision making.

The decision is primarily motivated by money. I'd have to buy 6 new codexes plus the rules to upgrade to 8th, and it's just not something I'm willing to do. I had the door half open on 8th, but the invalidation of the codices closed it for me and my group. It's not exactly an uniformed decision.

3 game modes with 2 of them having no points is just more reasons not to upgrade. Add the fact that since 8th is such a major update, surely 9th will be just around the corner to plug the holes.

I'll add that it's pretty gross that the FAQ is actually encouraging people to buy codices that will soon be put of print (for the lore of course, nothing to do with money). They should really take all of the old stuff off the shelf ASAP. Hopefully GW stores and FLGSs will do the right thing and give folks plenty of warning if they come in and buy an obsolete book. They should have done this month's and months ago instead of continuing to release new material they knew would become obsolete. But this has more to do with the way GW is treating it's customers rather than the rules themselves.

Now I've gotten this out of my system, I promise I won't haunt the boards with the ghost of 7th.

They even changed their distribution policy so you can buy online using a shopping card instead of the 1990s method of email and phone call.

I'm very happy with the announcement. I don't mind 7th edition that much since Traitor Legion and Fenris brought my armies on par with the others, but I'm still hoping for a more tactical approach with simplified rules. Similar to Lotr, which is easy to learn but hard to handle.
I'm also excited about the scenario play. Coming from lotr I was always surprised about the lack of these (and consequently made them up myself). Also not minding the lack of points here. I see open play, however, go the way of unbound - you only use it if you are a collector and finally want to try out your unrelated models one time.
Nevertheless I also hope that matched play has a mechanic about restricting superheavies and stuff like that. Maybe even the old "only allowed if you play with more than 2000+ points". Or only, if your opponent has a superheavy as well. Ideally, they could also balance the superheavies with point costs, of course.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Runic wrote:
What a group. They decided to stick with 7th without knowing anything concrete about 8th.

Admirable haste in decision making.

The decision is primarily motivated by money. I'd have to buy 6 new codexes plus the rules to upgrade to 8th, and it's just not something I'm willing to do. I had the door half open on 8th, but the invalidation of the codices closed it for me and my group. It's not exactly an uniformed decision.

rules are free, as will the unit rules be... and there will likely be only 2/3 books for unit rules all togeather

 jasper76 wrote:
Just noticed that points will only be used in "Matched Play". So one can only assume your average PUG will be "I'll put whatever I want on the table, and you do the same."

Barf. This is why AoS is a joke. I didn't believe they do it, but they did it.

I think just the opposite. AoS fell on its face at initial release due to the lack of points, so one couldn't play PUGs with any kind of semblance of balance. The slap-what-you-got-on-the-table mode is for newbies who just bought their first box of stuff and want to have a go with it. Thematic play is for people who are well acquainted who work out the experience in advance. PUG players are going to come with lists written to a certain amount of points, because they're looking for an even game, not for a goofball mess or to recreate so-and-so's last stand.

There will be some kind of AoSification of 40k. Here at Dakka I often heard that no 40k will not get aosified. The reality looks different.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Runic wrote:
What a group. They decided to stick with 7th without knowing anything concrete about 8th.

Admirable haste in decision making.

The decision is primarily motivated by money. I'd have to buy 6 new codexes plus the rules to upgrade to 8th, and it's just not something I'm willing to do. I had the door half open on 8th, but the invalidation of the codices closed it for me and my group. It's not exactly an uniformed decision.

3 game modes with 2 of them having no points is just more reasons not to upgrade. Add the fact that since 8th is such a major update, surely 9th will be just around the corner to plug the holes.

I'll add that it's pretty gross that the FAQ is actually encouraging people to buy codices that will soon be put of print (for the lore of course, nothing to do with money). They should really take all of the old stuff off the shelf ASAP. Hopefully GW stores and FLGSs will do the right thing and give folks plenty of warning if they come in and buy an obsolete book. They should have done this month's and months ago instead of continuing to release new material they knew would become obsolete. But this has more to do with the way GW is treating it's customers rather than the rules themselves.

Now I've gotten this out of my system, I promise I won't haunt the boards with the ghost of 7th.

6? There's going to be 5 codexes at launc and at a lower price than current ones.

morgoth wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
Have you tried to kill a knight with a Tyranid list without GSC? I find it very difficult to do.

Have you tried killing anything with a Tyranid list without GSC?

My grey knights can do it solo build. If grey Knights, CSM and guard can do it then it's fine. Using the worst contender as a benchmark is not a good way of telling of something is balenced.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Runic wrote:
What a group. They decided to stick with 7th without knowing anything concrete about 8th.

Admirable haste in decision making.

The decision is primarily motivated by money. I'd have to buy 6 new codexes plus the rules to upgrade to 8th, and it's just not something I'm willing to do. I had the door half open on 8th, but the invalidation of the codices closed it for me and my group. It's not exactly an uniformed decision.

3 game modes with 2 of them having no points is just more reasons not to upgrade. Add the fact that since 8th is such a major update, surely 9th will be just around the corner to plug the holes.

I'll add that it's pretty gross that the FAQ is actually encouraging people to buy codices that will soon be put of print (for the lore of course, nothing to do with money). They should really take all of the old stuff off the shelf ASAP. Hopefully GW stores and FLGSs will do the right thing and give folks plenty of warning if they come in and buy an obsolete book. They should have done this month's and months ago instead of continuing to release new material they knew would become obsolete. But this has more to do with the way GW is treating it's customers rather than the rules themselves.

Now I've gotten this out of my system, I promise I won't haunt the boards with the ghost of 7th.

6? There's going to be 5 codexes at launc and at a lower price than current ones.

Along with free core rules and most likely an app where you can buy only the formations/units you need for a couple of bucks each.

 jasper76 wrote:
Just noticed that points will only be used in "Matched Play". So one can only assume your average PUG will be "I'll put whatever I want on the table, and you do the same."

Barf. This is why AoS is a joke. I didn't believe they do it, but they did it.

No, the average way to play PUGs will be with points. Just like AoS when they finally came out with the GH.

Things I expect to see:

1. Cover saves will be gone. Instead you'll have modifiers to hit. So that cover save will be built in to the hit roll.

2. Wounding will still follow a chart. This isn't AoS, it makes 0 sense for a boltgun to wound a guardsman on a 4 and a hive tyrant on a 4. Fixed wound rolls do not work here.

3. Hit rolls in melee I am guessing will be fixed, similar to ballistic skill. I don't particularly like this, but there may also be modifiers in some way or another.

4. Save modifiers will be a thing, and as a result, things will die a lot easier, but also invulnerable saves are treated as an additive bonus to your save total, after negative modifiers are applied (ie, -3 save mod (AP3) on 2+/5++ drops the save to 5+, but then +2 from the invuln save, for a net save of 3+). I would guess the invuln saves would also read as +X, such as +2 instead of 5++.

I would imagine a psychic phase that is based on leadership. Perhaps that trait will be renamed so it is more generally applicable. Spells would test your ldr on some combination of D3 and D6 dice, with a fixed number of spells that can be cast per turn based on the psyker.

Jasper, you do know there are other games that don't run on a point system and are rather just fine.