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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade






 frozenwastes wrote:

Anyone who wants to see what good airbrushing looks like and how it fits into a larger process should check out Kenny Boucher from Next Level Painting. He uses an airbrush on almost everything he does, but he never, ever settles for the signature crappy gradient. There's always more glazing and highlights to be done and leaving details unpainted in a gradient is just never going to happen.



Love Kenny Boucher. He's one of my biggest inspirations in painting. Even though I don't own an airbrush, I can learn a lot from his videos by trying to replicate the airbrush effects with a brush, and he always does extensive brushwork on each model as well.

 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





nareik wrote:
Personally I think not only is an airbrush cheating, but so is a handbrush.

All my models are exclusively finger painted, and anyone who uses tools to apply paint isn't a real painter.


I can't tell you the number of the times I've seen something advertised as "hand painted" only to learn they were actually done with a brush.
   
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 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Plenty of good reasons and not just ego.
No, there really isn't a good reason not to buy an airbrush if you're serious about painting models. Even with a slim budget, a functional airbrush setup is definitely affordable and I'm of the opinion that if you have money to spare on the ridiculous price of most wargaming models, you could put some of that towards a versatile tool that will be well worth the cost of investment.

My airbrush set up cost me 130$
that is 3 kits of space marines really
now I spent quite abit on supplys, Rubbing Alchohol, Vegetable Glycerin, but nothing TOOO cheap

Bullockist wrote:I think a mini of hotsauceman1 rending the overly serious posters of dakka in twain with a flexing of humourous intent would be a winning mini.

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 Polonius wrote:
Airbrushing is also a classic case of people, on both sides, confusing normative judgments (good/bad) with declarations of taste (personal preference).


No, if I dislike something, it's objectively bad.

If you dislike something, you're subjectively wrong.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LunarSol wrote:


I can't tell you the number of the times I've seen something advertised as "hand painted" only to learn they were actually done with a brush.


That's like, fraud!


THIS is hand painting!
Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/17 11:51:57


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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Plenty of good reasons and not just ego.
No, there really isn't a good reason not to buy an airbrush if you're serious about painting models. Even with a slim budget, a functional airbrush setup is definitely affordable and I'm of the opinion that if you have money to spare on the ridiculous price of most wargaming models, you could put some of that towards a versatile tool that will be well worth the cost of investment.

My airbrush set up cost me 130$
that is 3 kits of space marines really
now I spent quite abit on supplys, Rubbing Alchohol, Vegetable Glycerin, but nothing TOOO cheap
3 kits of Space Marines could be a big deal for some people. A lot of people just buy their armies kit by kit. I know it sounds insane but when I started I actually only purchased what I painted () and it would take me several months to paint 3 kits worth of Space Marines.

Also money isn't the only issue, having a place to setup a decent spray booth is a barrier for many people even if they have the money. I live in a big house at the moment but there's a good chance my compressor and booth would end up on ebay if I moved somewhere smaller.

There's also the issue that some people don't like the hazy look that airbrushed blending gives and prefer the look of hairy brushed paints, it can look rougher and more organic which on some things I prefer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/17 12:08:22


 
   
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The Great State of Texas

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, ever since I discovered the little god-machine called an airbrush, I have noticed something in person and online.
People hating on airbrushing and work done with an airbrush. By my local "Friends" at gaming nights, whenever I told a few of an effect was caused by an airbrush, they would get mad or say it was cheating.
I had one guy tell me that he is a better painter than me(He isn't) because he doesn't use an airbrush so his painting is more "Pure"
At a GW store, I was told by one of the regulars that airbrushing is "Pure Cancer" and shouldn't be allowed in the store(The owner had an airbrushed IMP Fists army he was working on)
When I look online, I see the same type of comments. one that stuck out was "Great, Another tutorial that uses an airbrush, why cant I find ones that use normal painting anymore"
Why the hate on airbrushing so much?


1. Why do you care about the opinions of others?
2. Airbrushing can be an impressive additional technique, especially for the Emperor's true heroes (the guard). It is also excellent for real models (TM).
3. The next time someone comments, bring your airbrush and spray them in the face.* Be sure to ask others to criticise this most recent work, but always in a respectful manner**

*Just joking. I would just unholster your wiener dog (what do you mean you aren't carrying a wiener dog???)and let nature's perfect predator explain it to them.

**Kill Bill O-Ren Ishii's speech to the Yakuza council.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
The real "cancer" is people shaming others by how they paint their miniatures.

If its is painted, just decent, who are you to say others that they are cheating? Or that they techniches are "cancer"?
Thats the kind of ignorant people that just don't want to learn new techniques.

Bad Airbrushing is bad airbrushing, just as painting bad is bad whenever the technique.


The Spaniard speaks wisdom.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/17 12:45:29


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AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Plenty of good reasons and not just ego.
No, there really isn't a good reason not to buy an airbrush if you're serious about painting models. Even with a slim budget, a functional airbrush setup is definitely affordable and I'm of the opinion that if you have money to spare on the ridiculous price of most wargaming models, you could put some of that towards a versatile tool that will be well worth the cost of investment.

My airbrush set up cost me 130$
that is 3 kits of space marines really
now I spent quite abit on supplys, Rubbing Alchohol, Vegetable Glycerin, but nothing TOOO cheap
3 kits of Space Marines could be a big deal for some people. A lot of people just buy their armies kit by kit. I know it sounds insane but when I started I actually only purchased what I painted () and it would take me several months to paint 3 kits worth of Space Marines.

Also money isn't the only issue, having a place to setup a decent spray booth is a barrier for many people even if they have the money. I live in a big house at the moment but there's a good chance my compressor and booth would end up on ebay if I moved somewhere smaller.

There's also the issue that some people don't like the hazy look that airbrushed blending gives and prefer the look of hairy brushed paints, it can look rougher and more organic which on some things I prefer.

So, save up from not buying a few kits and buy the set up, and there are portable/collapsable airbrush booths out there.

Bullockist wrote:I think a mini of hotsauceman1 rending the overly serious posters of dakka in twain with a flexing of humourous intent would be a winning mini.

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I for one simply don't have the space for a spraying booth, otherwise I would have one. Airbrushes are nice, but they're not practical for 100% of people.

 
   
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Halifax, Nova Scotia

 kronk wrote:
That's like, fraud!


THIS is hand painting!
Spoiler:




4 colours if you count the basecoat. Good enough for tourney play.
   
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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, save up from not buying a few kits and buy the set up
You're thinking like an established gamer who probably has more models than they can paint and/or a decent pool of money to spend on this hobby.

For someone who doesn't have a lot of money, maybe has a couple of hobbies they enjoy and is buying their stuff piecemeal, an airbrush is going to be a decent investment. Personally not one that I'd say is a must have.

and there are portable/collapsable airbrush booths out there.
It can still be a pain in the arse to setup depending on your living situation. In the painting and modelling things often come up along the lines of "I have no where to exhaust fumes" or "is it okay to spray with no ventilation" or "can I spray outside because my spouse/significant other/housemate can't stand the smell?"

And portable airbrush booths + compressors + airbrush stands still take up space. Consider people who might live in a small studio or 1 bedroom apartment (or even worse, a small 2 bedroom apartment with someone who hates clutter ).

You also ignored my "some people just don't like it" comment.

You could also add people who are 1 army wargamers (yes they do exist, maybe not on dakka but in the real world I've met some ) with an already established paint scheme that they can't squeeze an airbrush in to.

Overall, yeah, there's plenty of reasons not to buy an airbrush or not to recommend an airbrush to certain wargamers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/17 22:51:27


 
   
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade






Yep, I live with my girlfriend in a very small apartment in a very expensive city and it's cluttered enough already. I have the money and the desire for an airbrush setup, but it just isn't happening until we move.

 
   
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Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





South Africa

I bought my airbrush for the sole purpose of painting Magnus as he released and i have yet to paint him as it is taking me longer to get to an acceptable skill level to paint him up to what i want than it took me to get to a decent level with a hair brush. I paint about 3 hrs a day 5 days a week and in about 6 months i still dont feel like im good enough, obvious base coats and small blends are easy enough but to get actually good with an airbrush where people dont think you used an airbrush for the sake of using an airbrush takes a lot of practice. The space I havent found it to be too much of an issue as I just murder anyone who complains about noise or inhaling vast amounts of blues and greens. Also im lucky i live in a spacious place where I can have an entire room for hobby.

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People are allowed to not like airbrushing if they feel like it.

However, they really shouldn't be making criticism of the technique into a personal thing.

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 frozenwastes wrote:
Anyone who wants to see what good airbrushing looks like and how it fits into a larger process should check out Kenny Boucher from Next Level Painting. He uses an airbrush on almost everything he does, but he never, ever settles for the signature crappy gradient. There's always more glazing and highlights to be done and leaving details unpainted in a gradient is just never going to happen.



Another good example is Angel Giraldez, who uses the same technique. His reason was simply speed - the rate he needs to paint minitures due to his commitment to Corvus Belli and his own freelance and commission work means he needed a faster way to paint. Airbrush the base colours and initial gradients, and brush for the detail work.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:03:25


 
   
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 -Loki- wrote:

Another good example is Angel Giraldez, who uses the same technique. His reason was simply speed - the rate he needs to paint minitures due to his commitment to Corvus Belli and his own freelance and commission work means he needed a faster way to paint. Airbrush the base colours and initial gradients, and brush for the detail work.


He also does a fair bit of hairy stick work too

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:06:45


 
   
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Yeah, I'll come clean. I've done that.

I've seen land raiders with random bits of their flat pannels glowing for no discernible reason and rolled my eyes. I've (probably) appeared disinterested when someone tells me they achieved a cool effect with an airbrush. And yes, I've shown preferential treatment to an effect that clearly took hours to do with brush work over an arguably nicer looking effect that was done quickly it an airbrush as an afterthought.

I don't own an airbrush, my condo doesn't really have a layout that's conducive to me having one. (Proximity to windows = surrounded by pristine white carpet). As a consequence of that my painting is strictly limited to what you can attain with a brush, which is what I'm eager to hear about when I ask others how they achieved an effect: if I can do it myself I really want to know how it's done, if it's only doable with an airbrush it takes everything I have to just be polite and not let my disappointment show.

But as far as video tutorials I have no patience for it at all. I've probably left a comment like the one described in the OP, once or twice. Nine times out of ten if I'm looking up a painting guide it's because I'm looking for good complimentary highlight colours, or I'm in a panic spiral over what order of colours I should use when basecoating or something. And nine times out of ten every video I find is a three-part series of 'spray this colour', 'spray that colour', and the occasional 'be very careful not to (obvious bad thing) so you don't break your airbrush'.

Now, I would argue that the majority of people looking up videos on how to paint something are new to the hobby. And I absolutely agree that at least some of them are looking for guidance on how to use their airbrush, I understand this. But you don't need a separate video for every conceivable space marine colour scheme if your core technique is identical. And when you, him, and the other guy are releasing a video every other day about how to paint blood angels, yet again, it's getting harder and harder to find advice on how to paint a consistent, streak-free yellow.

That said, I'm pretty thankful for warhammer tv, they provide a solid baseline and have alleviated like 90% of that frustration.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/19 13:12:50


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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade






 Captain Joystick wrote:
Yeah, I'll come clean. I've done that.

I've seen land raiders with random bits of their flat pannels glowing for no discernible reason and rolled my eyes. I've (probably) appeared disinterested when someone tells me they achieved a cool effect with an airbrush. And yes, I've shown preferential treatment to an effect that clearly took hours to do with brush work over an arguably nicer looking effect that was done quickly it an airbrush as an afterthought.

I don't own an airbrush, my condo doesn't really have a layout that's conducive to me having one. (Proximity to windows = surrounded by pristine white carpet). As a consequence of that my painting is strictly limited to what you can attain with a brush, which is what I'm eager to hear about when I ask others how they achieved an effect: if I can do it myself I really want to know how it's done, if it's only doable with an airbrush it takes everything I have to just be polite and not let my disappointment show.

But as far as video tutorials I have no patience for it at all. I've probably left a comment like the one described in the OP, once or twice. Nine times out of ten if I'm looking up a painting guide it's because I'm looking for good complimentary highlight colours, or I'm in a panic spiral over what order of colours I should use when basecoating or something. And nine times out of ten every video I find is a three-part series of 'spray this colour', 'spray that colour', and the occasional 'be very careful not to (obvious bad thing) so you don't break your airbrush'.

Now, I would argue that the majority of people looking up videos on how to paint something are new to the hobby. And I absolutely agree that at least some of them are looking for guidance on how to use their airbrush, I understand this. But you don't need a separate video for every conceivable space marine colour scheme if your core technique is identical. And when you, him, and the other guy are releasing a video every other day about how to paint blood angels, yet again, it's getting harder and harder to find advice on how to paint a consistent, streak-free yellow.

That said, I'm pretty thankful for warhammer tv, they provide a solid baseline and have alleviated like 90% of that frustration.


Pretty harsh, my friend. Pretty harsh.

As far as video tutorials go, you can pretty much substitute some kind of blending for airbrushing based on your preference, whether it be layering, glazing or wet blending. You can probably even use the same colors. Nearly every paint job has to have some brushwork done at some point, and most videos I've seen reflect this.

Also, look at the work of Kenny Boucher of Angel Giraldez as mentioned in this thread and tell me they aren't amazing painters. They also both have a large body of work in terms of lessons and tutorials that I have found extremely helpful, in spite of the fact that they use an airbrush and I don't.

 
   
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New England

I dislike airbrushing because it's noisy, takes a lot of space, needs good ventilation, and because the stupid thing requires constant maintenance to keep working (don't ask about the time I tried Tamiya "Sand"), and sometimes spare parts can be hard to find, and that's before the pain in the rear that's masking.

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Los Angeles

I understand airbrushing to basecoat, or do some subtle weathering to change a color. But generally I don't like the obvious effect of fully airbrushed models. I've seen many 'pro' painted models that look like they were airbrushed, slapped on quick fine highlights and done. And the result is not even well detailed or good looking. It's like the tension between pc gamers and console gamers. Plus youtube is loaded with how to paint videos with airbrushes everywhere. Seeing as how I don't have an airbrush....well thank god for Duncan.

A ton of HR gigers artwork is done by airbrush and it looks incredible. I think it's a good tool in the right hands. But when it's used lazily then its noticeable for sure.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/20 21:45:46


 
   
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Dakka Veteran




I paint everything by hand, sometimes that hand is holding an airbrush.

I bought one for about £100 all in, bought it to prime things with as I was fed up with having to wait for good weather to prime outdoors.

Its paid for itself many times over in primer rattle cans saved.

The fact it can also do base colours is a bonus.

Don't go much beyond basic zenith highlighting of base colours before the rest is done by a brush, OSL where used is brushed just because I find it easier.

If anyone accuses me of cheating (only happened once, from someone who appear to have used a rattle can, dry bush and dip, all the same shade of blue, and a splurge of a chrome colour for metals) I tend to just say "yes, why yes I did", and leave it at that, anyone who wants an argument can go elsewhere.

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 Desubot wrote:
 -Loki- wrote:

Another good example is Angel Giraldez, who uses the same technique. His reason was simply speed - the rate he needs to paint minitures due to his commitment to Corvus Belli and his own freelance and commission work means he needed a faster way to paint. Airbrush the base colours and initial gradients, and brush for the detail work.


He also does a fair bit of hairy stick work too



He does. Like I said in my post, he uses airbrushes to do basecoats and initial shading, then swaps to brushes. This lets you quickly get blends done while still getting the finer details done by brush. That speed is the reason he adopted the method.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 05:08:48


 
   
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I have used anairbrush for perhaps 4 years - for all those who say it's quicker - you haven't considered the masking needed, or the cleaning, let alone the frustration of 'why is it clogging this time for no reason'

I find it great for small scale vehicles (10/15mm) and have not tried anything 28mm yet, but it's required so much brush work after that it is only a stage I a process to me

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All the good painters, be they scale modellers and not gamers, or miniature painters, have it as just an early stage in a larger process.

All the people who have caused the negative reaction to airbrushing use it as their entire process. Or they just pick out the bare minimum with a brush at the end.

All the negative reactions people have won't stand up to results. So anyone with an airbrush who isn't happy about how people seem to be looking down on it now instead of praising it like they did 5 years ago just needs to up their game and use it as part of a larger process.



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 Bottle wrote:
ingtaer wrote:
Best thread I ever saw on this topic was Doomthumbs' opinion on people who complained about dipping;

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/394884.page

Still makes me chuckle.


Oh my, what an insane thread! Haha

That thread brought a tear of joy to my eye


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I use an Airbrush. I use it becuase I can layer base paint better and can create subtle effects. However I am a HORRIBLE painter. So the airbrush helps me cut down on base coating, setting up and spraying large areas. If you don't like that, so what?

This is MY HOBBY, take your opinions and go away. Those don't belong in competitive environments and only belong in your head.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 23:46:06


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I started air brushing 20 years ago. Never on models though. I personally don't care for the look. That said, if other people do it, I don't care. If you like the look and are capable, go for it. It's tougher to do well than most people think. Just my opinion.
   
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Devon, UK

 beezley1981 wrote:
I started air brushing 20 years ago. Never on models though. I personally don't care for the look. That said, if other people do it, I don't care. If you like the look and are capable, go for it. It's tougher to do well than most people think. Just my opinion.


I've seen this sentiment expressed on several occasions through the thread and I don't understand it. Airbrushing doesn't have a "look." It's a tool/technique that allows for certain styles to be more easily achieved, but there's nothing inherent to an airbrushed mini over a hairybrushed mini that need look any different, other than stylistic choices.

I agree that the forced high contrast that seems popular, what Peregrine calls the "look I have an airbrush!" technique, isn't attractive, but then I don't like all the stupid high contrast NMM and other techniques employed by hairy brush painters either, it's less about producing a convincing replication of the subject in miniature, which is what I feel is my main aim in painting a model, and more about the painter just saying "look what I can do!" in the same way. There's no argument that in some instances the technique displayed is impressive, and often way beyond anything I'd even attempt, I just don't find it aesthetically pleasing. That doesn't mean I dismiss all hairy brush painted models as not liking the look.

My airbrushed models are still very much in what I'd consider my more "realistic" style, and most require an equal amount of hairy brush application to achieve a result I'm happy with, and the only real clues that I've airbrushed them are gradients smoother and whites cleaner than I can paint by hand. But you'd need to know my own personal limitations as a painter to be sure, because there's unquestionably people out there doing the same level with hairy brushes by hand.

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 beezley1981 wrote:
I started air brushing 20 years ago. Never on models though. I personally don't care for the look. That said, if other people do it, I don't care. If you like the look and are capable, go for it. It's tougher to do well than most people think. Just my opinion.


I haven't done it, I was just going by the reasons Angel says he does it.

CS: How did you decide on using your method of combining Airbrush with Brush techniques? It’s certainly an effective method that has proven to provide stellar results.

AG: I work as painter and companies want quality and a low cost. I paint many miniatures and I have [deadlines] so during years I’ve development my method which is the combination airbrush and brush.

Now many painters are using this method because this method is easy.


While he says 'easy' and not 'fast', he talks about having many deadlines, which is why you'd want to do things faster.
   
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 Azreal13 wrote:
Airbrushing doesn't have a "look." It's a tool/technique that allows for certain styles to be more easily achieved, but there's nothing inherent to an airbrushed mini over a hairybrushed mini that need look any different, other than stylistic choices.


To demonstrate: this Stormsword was painted almost entirely with an airbrush (the step-by-step explanation is in one of the FW painting books), but would you know that if I hadn't told you? Maybe if you have a lot of experience with historical modeling you might recognize some techniques that are difficult to do well without an airbrush, but it certainly doesn't have anything in common with the "LOOK AT ME I HAVE AN AIRBRUSH" style. That style is a problem with low-talent (usually commission) painters throwing together ugly garbage as fast as possible, not the tool they're using to do it.


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Airbrushing is sterile and lacks personality compared to something that is hand painted. I don't care for it.

That is just a matter of preference, though, and I can admire a well-done airbrushing job and I certainly don't look down on people who airbrush their models. i just prefer the alternative.

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 Azreal13 wrote:

I've seen this sentiment expressed on several occasions through the thread and I don't understand it. Airbrushing doesn't have a "look." It's a tool/technique that allows for certain styles to be more easily achieved, but there's nothing inherent to an airbrushed mini over a hairybrushed mini that need look any different, other than stylistic choices.


I mean, sure, technically air brushing doesn't all have one style. I don't think people look at a model, think it looks awesome, and then find out it was airbrushed and hate it. a lot of armies look airbrushed from across the room.

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Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
 
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