Switch Theme:

People being anti-airbrush / disliking airbrushing?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Hovering Squid World 97A

 Peregrine wrote:
Maybe if you have a lot of experience with historical modeling you might recognize some techniques that are difficult to do well without an airbrush, but it certainly doesn't have anything in common with the "LOOK AT ME I HAVE AN AIRBRUSH" style.
Pretty much, yes. Painting any kind of scale model (car, AFV, aircraft, etc.) without an airbrush is just a waste of time. It is impossible to paint something like a 1/32 scale P-51 without an airbrush and expect to get a result anywhere near as good as if you used the proper tool. In fact, when people on a forum, Reddit, or in person ask for advice on getting into modeling, the number one response that I give is to buy an airbrush and learn how to use it.

Indeed, painting something like soft edged camo is about a million times easier with an airbrush. Hell, even hard edged camo is easier with an airbrush. The amount of blending and time it would take to replicate this kind of camouflage would be asinine:

Spoiler:


 Saber wrote:
Airbrushing is sterile and lacks personality compared to something that is hand painted.
Nearly everything on this model was painted with an airbrush, aside from the weathering which was a combination of oils, enamels, and pigments:



Not to toot my own horn, but I don't think it's possible to look at this model and say it has no "personality" or is "sterile."

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/25 11:53:26


 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker






 Polonius wrote:
I don't think people look at a model, think it looks awesome, and then find out it was airbrushed and hate it.


People in this thread have admitted to doing exactly that.

 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

For most the hate only comes if it's obvious to the point that the lazy broad gradients dominate the model while the person painting it thinks they're the pope of chili town for painting such an awesome model so easily.

A points system is a tool to create balance. Let's use it to intentionally seek out imbalance in order to win and then blame the game designer for it not working!  
   
Made in us
Wondering Why the Emperor Left





I love airbrushes and brushing by hand as there are things that each can do that the other can't and the idea that one is necessarily 'superior' to the other is ridiculous.
(I also think that one of the main things that make people go UGH AIRBRUSH is that too many model painters try to use object source lighting without actually understanding how light works.)
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

I think people get confused between two elements of what makes up "art".
There is being technically proficient in a technique like pointillism where the work and skill is readily admired no matter the subject.
There is also the idea or image in the person's head and trying to bring it into the world: some are more successful than others.

I can understand some idea of the hate when using one technique can take hours while another can take minutes for a similar result.
I admit I got a little "angry" when I started getting good results with airbrush and wished I got to it sooner.

As far as I am concerned there is no "cheating" if the intent is to get the image in your head down to a physical object.
That would be like saying 3D CAD and 3D printers is cheating over traditional sculpting.

Molding, kit-bashing, dips, shades, acrylic inks, press-molds, there is so much out there that has changed, heck shading "washes" seemed like cheating to me when I first saw what some acrylic with matt-medium and flow-aid can do.

Next we can complain about decals as cheating rather than painting them on... or the use of stencils.

I do not CARE at all what techniques were used (but fun to try to figure them out) as long as the end result is awesome.

As we all get more experienced at seeing airbrush work, it will expose those folk who brightly spray an area for "source lighting" for the lazy gits they are.

In the end, we always appreciate effort as well as the end result, because if your art costs you nothing, that is what it is worth.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte

 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

Interesting points, Talizvar.

I'll admit, I heard of home made decals and thought they sounded like they'd look cheap and lazy, but then saw some examples that blew me away!
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





North Carolina

 Azreal13 wrote:
 beezley1981 wrote:
I started air brushing 20 years ago. Never on models though. I personally don't care for the look. That said, if other people do it, I don't care. If you like the look and are capable, go for it. It's tougher to do well than most people think. Just my opinion.


I've seen this sentiment expressed on several occasions through the thread and I don't understand it. Airbrushing doesn't have a "look." It's a tool/technique that allows for certain styles to be more easily achieved, but there's nothing inherent to an airbrushed mini over a hairybrushed mini that need look any different, other than stylistic choices.


Well then I'll say that I don't care for the look of an atomized gradient from one color to another, haha. It always looks "chalky" to me. The examples in this thread all look awesome! That said, yes I can tell they were airbrushed, and no, it's not my thing. When I see it on a car or a t-shirt, I have the same feeling. I don't hate it or consider it cheating, I personally just won't paint my models that way.
   
Made in ca
Skillful Swordsman




Montreal, QC Canada

Personally I couldn't care less how someone went about painting their models. I mean I think a bigger issue would be the number of people who don't paint their minis at all.

There is quite a bit of bad airbrush work out there though which I think is where most of the hate comes from. Always keep in mind though that it's all just creating art, and the main rule in art is that there are no rules. Do whatever you damn well please that gets the job done.

Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!!
The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage 
   
Made in si
Delicious Fruit Gardener







I own an airbrush and don't think it's cheating, but I do have an intense dislike of "van art" style paintjobs that a lot of airbrushers do.

Posters on ignore list: 33

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
There is quite a bit of bad airbrush work out there though which I think is where most of the hate comes from. Always keep in mind though that it's all just creating art, and the main rule in art is that there are no rules. Do whatever you damn well please that gets the job done.


The hate doesn't come from bad airbrushing. Otherwise people would be getting the same hate for simply bad brush paint jobs. The hate comes from a bad airbrushing, then shoved in your face saying 'look how awesome this is because I airbrushed it/someone airbrushed it for me'.
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

There's a local guy who keeps on trying to do commission work with an airbrush and his stuff is primed, sprayed the base colour and then zenithal highlighted with straight white (regardless of the base colour, so a lot of his red is pink for example). A few details are picked out (not even the majority of details actually on the model-- loads of aquillas on space marine chests the same colour as the armour) and then that's it. He then shows up at every event and store and tries to hard sell people on people having him paint their stuff for him.

People have started getting pretty direct with him and anyone else trying to pass off lazy zenithal as a finished paint job. Doubly so if they start talking about painting for money. Lots of "so when are you going to put some paint on your preshaded primer job?" and "wow that looks bad, did Joe teach you how to paint?" and my favorite "being a beginner with an airbrush is like knowing a little bit of kung fu. You're a danger to yourself and others."

Anyone actually skilled with an airbrush quickly realizes that the steps done with an airbrush really make up a minority of the time spent painting a model and concentrate more on the glaze, highlight and weathering work that needs to follow. It was cool that around 10 years or so ago miniature painters started paying attention to the process used by scale model builders, but many only seem to have imported a fraction of the overall process.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/30 02:26:48


A points system is a tool to create balance. Let's use it to intentionally seek out imbalance in order to win and then blame the game designer for it not working!  
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

@frozenwastes: Spot-on with the beginner at Kung-fu comment.
I started leaning on airbrush to get block-painting done since I find that element of painting "soul-sucking" so then I can lean on my detail brush-work that I am better skilled at and spend less time "painting by numbers".
Yes, I too am at the Zenithal highlighting stage of things but since I do Black Templar it creates better results than most.
My cheat/lazy/bad habit is not masking the legs of a model when I spray the base so that a bit of mud/dirt is lightly sprayed on the boots: that is realism!

I agree the bigger issue is getting anyone to have painted models at all, I would not want to discourage a "bad airbrush" job if they are new at it.

People trying to sell services for painting on the merit of beginner airbrush skills... yeah, that bubble may need to be burst.

It was terribly funny when my "block painted" by airbrush models were viewed by some new players at my FLGS and they said "I could never paint like that.".
I kinda flipped out and said that they certainly can and most likely do far better after a few months, it is "only" airbrush application, rattle-can results would be similar.
Getting better at masking methods now which is where the real skill starts kicking in.

Working on models in general, there is ALWAYS something new to learn and get better at.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte

 
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




We'll find out soon enough eh.

ryzouken wrote:
Ask how they got to the game store. If they respond with anything other than "I walked" accuse them of cheating.

Ask if they primed their army and if so, how. If they used a rattle can instead of a brush, express disdain and claim they cheated.

An airbrush is a tool. It is a piece of technology. It has strengths, but also significant limitations.


You wouldn't know that from the way some people talk about them.

Look, most of the examples in the OP are arseholes(I don't see how grousing about trad painting tutorials becoming scarcer relative to airbrush ones is "hating", but hey ho), but lets not pretend this is all big meanie-weenie grognard brushpainters at fault. I've been called a "fething idiot" to my face because I don't use an airbrush, I've seen airbrush users tell people who don't want to get one because of the cost that "if you're that poor you shouldn't even be in the hobby", and there's a generally slightly evangelical tone on display from many airbrush users that gets grating after a while(a favourite is when someone asks for advice on a specific technique and the "have you heard of our Lord & Savour, airbrush?" crowd descend to tell them they shouldn't bother using such antiquated methods and just buy an airbrush instead).

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



UK

Hairy stick and blowy brush. Both are good. I have zero time for the idiots who get personal about it though. If someone shows me a miniature that they have painted to the best of their ability, even if it isn't great, it's still an achievement regardless of how they got there.

I have an airbrush set up but I find it a difficult learning curve because kids and life and PTSD leave me without the time to learn to use it properly. One day, maybe...
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

I am a little disturbed that people get into each other's face about performing hobby art... like really?
I usually just feel happy seeing someone try.
If asked to "critique" I start off saying what they did well, what can be done to make it better and possible pitfalls to avoid and mention what methods are "hard" to do.

Any statement starting with "If you cannot afford XXXXX maybe you should not...." is being an elitist jerk plain and simple (and most likely actively seeking to be "better" than their peers).
EVERY hobby can be done on a budget, it just takes a little more patience and research.
We all have varying incomes and there can be something learned in frugal acquisition rather than frittering away our money.
It is hard enough to drag people away from their video games and create stuff why be that guy and be a barrier to entry in a hobby we supposedly like?

My tools do not define me as a hobbyist.
It is the application of technique that is distinctly my own that gives me joy in my hobby.
As that article by "Doomthumbs" presents, there can be much creativity found just in the application of "art" (which he showed in abundance) so I would caution people to be slow to judge.

Typically I find snarky comments are made by those with little confidence who get upset when they see others improve with great strides better than they had.
If I contributed to someone becoming awesome and exceeding my skills at what they do, I look at it as a privilege not a failure on my part.

Airbrush gives some good and immediate results, just those passing it off as "skill" on their part is where we get into the "dislike" element.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte

 
   
Made in au
Princeps of the Titan 'SDF-1'






I only dislike it when they're like this:
*sprays a flat blue onto a light*
"Look I did a zenithal OSL!"
*sprays all other lights bumps and vents the same*
"So much OSL, much pro painted!"


It makes gradients easy to do, and hell getting one would speed the crap out of my own painting, but it's not an automatic awesome if that makes sense. There's still underlying yet different techniques that need to be grasped, it's certainly not a shortcut to things like perfecting OSL.
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 n0t_u wrote:
It makes gradients easy to do, and hell getting one would speed the crap out of my own painting, but it's not an automatic awesome if that makes sense. There's still underlying yet different techniques that need to be grasped, it's certainly not a shortcut to things like perfecting OSL.
I agree.
Yes, airbrush can give a nice diffused "spot-light" rather easy.

Knowing the angle to apply, changing shade layers an progressively reducing the spray area and possibly some creative masking is where skill can be demonstrated.
I find that for a model to be painted with some measure of detail requires at least 3 different shades for the same surface (possible colour) to show some depth to it.

I guess we all are rather humbled that even spending years painting you can always point to others that FAR exceed our skill in painting.
So when someone claims "pro-painted" the expectations are rather ridiculously high.
I have a hard time understanding people that think they are "awesome" and cannot honestly see how much of a beginner they are and get all upset if any criticism is given to work they charge money for.
I think that makes them more than fair game.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte

 
   
Made in ca
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Vancouver BC Canada

 Talizvar wrote:
I think people get confused between two elements of what makes up "art".
There is being technically proficient in a technique like pointillism where the work and skill is readily admired no matter the subject.
There is also the idea or image in the person's head and trying to bring it into the world: some are more successful than others.

I can understand some idea of the hate when using one technique can take hours while another can take minutes for a similar result.
I admit I got a little "angry" when I started getting good results with airbrush and wished I got to it sooner.

As far as I am concerned there is no "cheating" if the intent is to get the image in your head down to a physical object.
That would be like saying 3D CAD and 3D printers is cheating over traditional sculpting.

Molding, kit-bashing, dips, shades, acrylic inks, press-molds, there is so much out there that has changed, heck shading "washes" seemed like cheating to me when I first saw what some acrylic with matt-medium and flow-aid can do.

Next we can complain about decals as cheating rather than painting them on... or the use of stencils.

I do not CARE at all what techniques were used (but fun to try to figure them out) as long as the end result is awesome.

As we all get more experienced at seeing airbrush work, it will expose those folk who brightly spray an area for "source lighting" for the lazy gits they are.

In the end, we always appreciate effort as well as the end result, because if your art costs you nothing, that is what it is worth.


Fantastic post, you pretty much said what I wanted to but way better. There are so many different techniques out there now its amazing. The most amazing thing tho is the amount of information we have at our finger tips now. We really do live in the golden age

CATS- How are you gentlemen?
CATS- All your base are belong to us.
CATS- You are on the way to destruction.
Captain -What you say?
CATS- You have no chance to survive make your time.
CATS HA HA HA!!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hi%20Welcome



 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
Fantastic post, you pretty much said what I wanted to but way better. There are so many different techniques out there now its amazing. The most amazing thing tho is the amount of information we have at our finger tips now. We really do live in the golden age
Thank-you, the compliment is appreciated.
I have participated in many a lively discussion on the "elitism" of those who prefer seeing painted miniatures.
You are very correct that compared to the "dark ages" of when I started models (early 1980's) there is little excuse for not knowing how to do something because you cannot find the information.
I think that is why I have settled on appreciating effort over how good the model actually is.
Getting good is a process of hard work and with huge luck, maybe some innate talent (those people I respectfully hate... you know who you are).
In normal life I say "For every 5 minutes of me being brilliant, cost me at least 2 hours of appearing to be an idiot earlier in my life."... no comments on the ratio I have been living my life.

"Golden Age?" it is a very good time I am sure, what technology gives it can also take away: we have more painting resources than ever but I bet far less people physically paint than a decade ago.
That COULD be mitigated by how many people electronically paint.
I seem to remember spending WAY too much time playing with the army painter in Dawn of War.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte

 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





Southern California, USA

Some people consider their way of doing things the right way and that they are morally superior in doing things in this fashion. Even when there are better tools and technologies out there they will adamantly refuse to adopt them and insist their method is somehow superior or the other method is inferior. It's like a kind of brand loyalty.

I will say I don't care for the "airbrush look" as Peregrine describes it. It's tacky, overblown and lazy. I would never pay for it nor would I ever encourage someone to do so. However, airbrushing has it's place. Airbrushing makes basecoating a breeze and can make transitions look natural in a way regular brushes simply can not. It is also incredibly helpful in making camouflage. WW2 german tanks in particular benefit from airbrush camo.

And those people who look down on others for dipping/drybrushing etc. can go take a hike. Just because not everyone has the desire/patience/ability to layer paint doesn't make their efforts any less valid. If the end result looks great who cares how they got there?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/03 06:07:10


Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
13th Legion: 3000
Bolt Action Soviets: ~2000 pts
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
WMH CoC: 40 points (30 fully painted!)
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 10 done so far!  
   
Made in au
Princeps of the Titan 'SDF-1'






 Talizvar wrote:
I guess we all are rather humbled that even spending years painting you can always point to others that FAR exceed our skill in painting.
So when someone claims "pro-painted" the expectations are rather ridiculously high.
I have a hard time understanding people that think they are "awesome" and cannot honestly see how much of a beginner they are and get all upset if any criticism is given to work they charge money for.
I think that makes them more than fair game.


Indeed, by all means you should be proud of your own work but becoming arrogant about it becomes self limiting cause you stop trying new things and stop learning easier or faster ways to get the same effect. The two most important things are to learn to take criticism and to just keep practicing; there will always be someone better but rather than be discouraged by it it can be used as motivation if someone wants to keep improving.
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Some people consider their way of doing things the right way and that they are morally superior in doing things in this fashion. Even when there are better tools and technologies out there they will adamantly refuse to adopt them and insist their method is somehow superior or the other method is inferior. It's like a kind of brand loyalty.
Funny, I came across this in gaming terms: the "scrub" mentality.
People who apply extra rules and their own "morality" on the rules to a game.
It ultimately becomes self-limiting and boils down to not playing the same game as others.
What makes it worse is expecting others to follow those same unwritten self-made rules.
Looking on a proven and valid art technique / strategy as invalid or cheating loses sight of the fact people are trying to get a good or better result.
If by airbrush I get a better result than your hairy brush is that cheating?
Seems petty to me, I do not get angry when others paint better than me (unless they are ridiculously good, then comments of "now that is just showing off!" are made).

We know what looks good.
We become more discerning as we are exposed to more of a thing (like my whisky and Scotch...).
Appreciation for an effort and appreciation for an art result can be two different things, and if we are lucky, seeing both is an honor to behold.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte

 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





How can someone "cheat" painting their models. A painted model is a painted model and I would much rather play a painted army than an unpainted one. I will still play someone with an unpainted army...because a game is a game and some folks don't have time or the desire to paint.

My two cents,

CB

Please Check out my Painting Logs - More than 1000 individual photos of completed models shown.
3 successful trades in the Dakka Swap Shop.

Forge World Elysian Army | Tau Sept Cadre | Ork Waaagh

Order of Our Martyred Lady - Sisters of Battle | Necromundian Imperial Guard Regiment

DC:70S++G+M++B+I++PW40k-89-+D+++++A+++/aWD088R+T(M)DM+  
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Georgia

Airbrushing can great if you've got the time and effort under your belt to make it so. Personally I use a brush on my minis because its what I'm familiar and comfortable with but when it comes to me working on a prop for a client I'll use whatever gets the best results the fastest, not doing so is a disservice to them and something no reasonable professional or anyone serious about their work is going do.

Vorradis 75th "Crimson Cavaliers" 8.7k

The enemies of Mankind may employ dark sciences or alien weapons beyond Humanity's ken, but such deviance comes to naught in the face of honest human intolerance back by a sufficient number of guns. 
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Discussions
Go to: