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Twin Linking and Shred/Armourbane on everything that is Ultramarines, not to mention sitting just under the threshold to protect him from everything. Good Melee threat too just as the enemy gets too close (but not so good as to thrust him into a unit of 30 Boyz).

There's also the fact that TL weapons from 7th basically doubled the amount of shots they had - but that's not his fault.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Twin Linking and Shred/Armourbane on everything that is Ultramarines, not to mention sitting just under the threshold to protect him from everything. Good Melee threat too just as the enemy gets too close (but not so good as to thrust him into a unit of 30 Boyz).

There's also the fact that TL weapons from 7th basically doubled the amount of shots they had - but that's not his fault.

That's a good way to phrase it

Let's turn Twin Link into Double the number of Shots...
and Let's Twin Link those Doubled Shots...

Brilliant!

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Guilliman's buffs are good because they're competing against other 8th edition character buffs. In something like 7th he'd be a fairly mediocre character for his points cost, but there isn't anyone besides maybe Magnus who can buff armies on the scale he can in 8th. So he's really powerful.

Magnus's buff is pretty weak, it's just a combination of the daemon prince (good, but not outstanding) and the exalted sorcerer (literally the worst buff aura in the game). What makes him good is what he can do on his own, not as a force multiplier. The best buff bot Chaos gets is almost certainly the Changeling.

Having Guilliman sit at the back surrounded by 3 LasCan Preds is a waste of points. You seems to be blind to see what a melee power he has.
A captain and a LT are way more cost efficient without wasting a huge melee potential.

I am neither playing Ultramarines nor Dark Angels but will be glad if my opponent keeps his Primarch far away from the frontline.
And if i could choose between Guilliman and Azrael, i would take the Dark Angel. A 4++ bubble is what i hoped has gone for ever.
Reducing the 4++ to a 5++ is the only nerf i would apply. Both use up a lot of points, esp. Roboute, so need to be really good.

 Marmatag wrote:
A melee army around Guilliman would move, what, 8" a turn? That doesn't sound very threatening.

Not sure you've really thought through the mobility it has.

8+D6+1" turn one, everything else in Land Raiders preferably and Termies in teleport strike who will drop next to him for the +1 charge. Vanguard vets in Land Raiders to get out for a 15" pre charge threat range. They can jump over screening units to get to guard tanks very easily. Or the jump over a target unit and charge its rear stopping that important unit from falling back. If you run a Crusader and have Calgar with Honour Guard, Lieutenant and Chapter Ancient with Banner of the. Emperor Ascendent you have a very large area of buffs to close combat with guys re - attacking after death.

I have I used this multiple times now and can easily get 7/8 charges off turn 2 and once it's in combat it is lethal. Yes you'll lose guys but it actually increases an already impressive damage output. This is a much more efficient means of dealing multiple wounds when you have 5/6 units covered in D3 and flat 3 damage weapons than a few lascannon predators where Guilliman isn't really using his close combat abilities.